2015.05.25 14:00 - Utopia, pidgeons, and cucumber sandwiches

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

druth Vlodovic: boo
Aphrodite Macbain: hey!
Aphrodite Macbain: I totally forgot my session
druth Vlodovic: I didn't see you online so I was calling to remind you
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for remembering!
Aphrodite Macbain: oh that was you...
druth Vlodovic: big crowd
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: People are out on a sunny day
druth Vlodovic: we're back to that
druth Vlodovic: sunny there, rainy here
Aphrodite Macbain: though it's grey and miserable at my place
Aphrodite Macbain: same for u?
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
druth Vlodovic: all day
druth Vlodovic: spring flowers etc
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Qt
Qt Core: Hi Aph, Druth
druth Vlodovic: hi QT]
druth Vlodovic: we were talking about economics in star trek
Aphrodite Macbain: we are talking about alternative economic systems
Qt Core: a so called post - scarcity model
druth Vlodovic: with an idealized government
Aphrodite Macbain: another trekkie!?
Aphrodite Macbain: post scarcity: an utopian concept
Qt Core: i wear a TNG commbadge on all my outfit, aph
druth Vlodovic: ever read "the Toynbee convector" Arthur C Clarke? the time travel one?
Qt Core: (and have a few dozen trek novel at arm's length in rl ;-)
druth Vlodovic: it sort of explains what he wanted to do, in some ways
Aphrodite Macbain: above your pocket?
druth Vlodovic: imagine a perfect future and you can enter it
Aphrodite Macbain: I am not sure what a perfect future would look like. Are you?
druth Vlodovic: lol, you know soon, you can make the combadge functional
druth Vlodovic: maybe bluetooth
Qt Core: i am a fan of utopian (or almost utopian) science fiction, we have enough of dystopia in rl
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) you and druth Qt
Aphrodite Macbain: What does your Utopia look like?
druth Vlodovic: I suspect this is why young adult stories are taking over the movie theatres
druth Vlodovic: adult fare is too grim
druth Vlodovic:my utopia is people deciding to mind their own business and stop being randomly mean to one another
Qt Core: let say that TNG is quite near to my kind of utopia
druth Vlodovic: a bit pie in the sky I'll admit
Aphrodite Macbain: a world without poverty, inequality and violence?
Aphrodite Macbain: Funny- artists paint hell more interestingly than heaven
druth Vlodovic: they are all related
Qt Core: the big issue is the change in mentality, what to do with our lives without no more race to get food/money ?
druth Vlodovic: hell is "cooler"
Aphrodite Macbain: Hell scenes are very creative...
Aphrodite Macbain: remember the church in Orvieto?
druth Vlodovic: there is an idea that if we stop "believing in" then we will wither and die
Aphrodite Macbain: believing in what?
druth Vlodovic: anything
Aphrodite Macbain: we with wither and die if we are pessimistic?
druth Vlodovic: heaven, hell, race, nationality, money, "getting the better of..." : etc etc etc
Qt Core: what average people would do, there are not so many places or people talented to be adventurer/explorer./scientists, even artists
druth Vlodovic: even the idea that people "have to" "do
druth Vlodovic: one of the problems with communism
Aphrodite Macbain: Everybody has something they can nurture
druth Vlodovic: remove the opiate of the people ie religion, and people will live up to a fantastic passion of life
Aphrodite Macbain: "have to" is a problem with all dictatorships- communist, fascist and conservative
druth Vlodovic: but the belief in needing a passion of life seems a bit of a sell job
Qt Core: in a smaller scale, after a couple years of vacation, with what will you fill your days if you would win a few billion dollars ?
Aphrodite Macbain: I would start a project that would make a difference in the world
Aphrodite Macbain: and give most of my money to what I believe are good causes.
druth Vlodovic: according to a friend of mine nobody in Kuwait works except immigrants; the people spend their time driving Porches and investing money
Qt Core: yes, but not just financing it, signing checks i assume
Aphrodite Macbain: no- organizing
Aphrodite Macbain: (to Qt)
Aphrodite Macbain: Personally, I don't need a lot
druth Vlodovic: sooo, gambling?
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
druth Vlodovic: gardening, enjoying life, meeting people
Aphrodite Macbain: gardening would be nice :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: what would u do with a million dollars Qt?
druth Vlodovic: sorry, I am still trying to imagine what to do with life if nobody had to strive to survive
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: don't be sorry
Aphrodite Macbain: you can do so much druth
Qt Core: probably the same as you Aph, mostly in the disabled and software area
Aphrodite Macbain: nods    Sounds good :-)
Qt Core: one or the other or something combining both
Aphrodite Macbain: For me the challenge is boredom; maintaining an interest, being patient when things don't always work, dealing with difficult people...day-to-day problems
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Korel
druth Vlodovic: hi K we are talking about an idea world-what would it look like?
Qt Core: as animals we have two main goals, survive and reproduce, we may change one or both of them, but probably can't overcome the need of a goal
druth Vlodovic: boredom hasn't been my problem ever, though I do get restless from time to time
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
Qt Core: Hi Korel
druth Vlodovic: it would look like a bird?
Aphrodite Macbain: Lucky you
Korel Laloix: ideal world?.. more chocolate, less cabbage.
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: or a cat
druth Vlodovic: mmm, chocolate covered cabbage
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Korel Laloix: oh don't.. lol
Aphrodite Macbain: a world with everyone having a sense of humour
Qt Core: wondering about cabbage covered in chocolate now...
Aphrodite Macbain: blechh
Korel Laloix: Just say no.
druth Vlodovic: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: lick off the chocolate

Korel Laloix: I just don't think any of use with our biases and selfish needs could come up with anything better.. the problem is us, not the world.
Aphrodite Macbain: well said Korel!
Aphrodite Macbain: You are absolutely right
Aphrodite Macbain: I think
Aphrodite Macbain: I need to go and buy a lens cap...

Korel Laloix: Take care.
Qt Core: bye Aph
druth Vlodovic: good hunting aph
Korel Laloix: Ciao Aph.
Korel Laloix: That is the way I look at it at least.
Qt Core: we started from utopian world, like the star trek one, and then shrunk the idea to just winning a few billion dollars
Korel Laloix: You think Star Trek is Utopian?
Korel Laloix: You might have to explain that to me.
druth Vlodovic: the problem with nihilism
Korel Laloix: And not just because I find the show tedious and painful.
druth Vlodovic: heathen!!!
Korel Laloix looks up nihilism
Qt Core: compared to the usual sci-fi (terminator/alien/blade runner) yes
druth Vlodovic: star trek stands on the basis that earth has eliminated poverty, and economics, and it's government is caring and trustworthy
Korel Laloix: lol... I had to date a sci-fi fan for a year before I could even tell the difference between Star Trek and Star Wars... lol
druth Vlodovic: nihilism is the idea that if we just destroy everything then utopia will appear
Korel Laloix: I know a few of those sorts then.
Korel Laloix: Not fun to be around.
druth Vlodovic: and star wars has lightsabers
druth Vlodovic: hmph
Korel Laloix: But tell me something I can remember that with.
druth Vlodovic: long lightstick only you can cut stuff with it, sigh
druth Vlodovic: nvm
druth Vlodovic: what would your perfect world look like Korel?
Korel Laloix: The only way, I can remember it is Chebacaw i s "walking carpet".. and Star Wars has a W in it.
Qt Core: tall pointy ear - star trek, tall green pointy ear - star wars
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: That does not help... lol
Qt Core: low green
druth Vlodovic: philistines
Korel Laloix: Perfect world?.. probably one with no rational beings.
druth Vlodovic: ??
Korel Laloix: We are the problem, not the world.
druth Vlodovic: hum
Qt Core: the trek utopia starts with the (almost) infinite energy supply and the replicator that can create anything you need
 

druth Vlodovic: when we were on vacation I ended up spending a lot of time watching pigeons
Korel Laloix: But they are still in a constant state of war... trek and wars...
Korel Laloix: I think pigeons like the world for the most part.. they seem happy.
druth Vlodovic: it was spring so the guy pigeons were spending time puffing up and approaching females
Qt Core: well that is mostly to have something to show...
druth Vlodovic: the females were playing hard to get and walking away just enough that they didn't lose the guy's interest
Korel Laloix: Never watched birds have at it.. lol
druth Vlodovic: and walking back if they do
Korel Laloix: Just like humans... smiles
Qt Core: sure you aren't speaking about humans, druth ?
druth Vlodovic: xactly
Korel Laloix: We are all connected in some ways...
druth Vlodovic: I suspect the real difference between humans and animals is fire and the ability to speak English (ok, say, "human languages" but that doesn't sound as cool)
druth Vlodovic: we just let the wrong people accumulate power and tell us what to do
Korel Laloix: Sadly, there is a lot of that.
druth Vlodovic: and the problem with that is that it is always the wrong people who will be seeking to accumulate power and telling people what to do
druth Vlodovic: heck, animals even have wars
Korel Laloix: Mostly true.
Korel Laloix: There are people trying to get my better half to run for a local office.
druth Vlodovic: oh?
Korel Laloix: She does not want to... but she would be great at it.
Korel Laloix: So Sama is thinking about it.
druth Vlodovic: those facts tend to go together
druth Vlodovic: sounds stressful
druth Vlodovic: wb qt
Korel Laloix: Heay
Qt Core: ty
Korel Laloix: Sama is one of those that sort of needs one more things to do...lol
Korel Laloix: We have that in common for sure.. but I am getting better at it I think.
druth Vlodovic: are you looking forward to passing out flyers and making cucumber sandwiches?
Korel Laloix: cucumber sandwiches?
druth Vlodovic: politics runs on cucumber sandwiches
druth Vlodovic: with little toothpicks in them
Korel Laloix: I sense an idiom that I don't know about. Can you explain please?
Korel Laloix: To give to people you don't like?
druth Vlodovic: lol
druth Vlodovic: silly bell :/
Qt Core: aren't they one of fav finger food in anglosaxon culture ?
Korel Laloix: lol.. that was a serious question though...
druth Vlodovic: the idea is that politics is all about smoozing
Korel Laloix: No idea... I am not of that culture... and never heard of them.
druth Vlodovic: small drinks and sandwiches, impressing people etc
Korel Laloix: Oh.. sort of like small finger foods to eat and chat over?
Qt Core: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucumber_sandwich
Korel Laloix: That I can do.
druth Vlodovic: probably not that way in local politics though
Korel Laloix: That sounds really horrible.
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: I am not sure what it would look like if Sama decided to do that.
druth Vlodovic: you're not supposed to eat them! just walk around the room holding them
Korel Laloix: Would be awkward as tend toward different ends of the political spectrum...
Korel Laloix: OH good.
druth Vlodovic: you and Sama?
Korel Laloix: That sounds much more polite?
Korel Laloix: Yes...
druth Vlodovic: hmm
Korel Laloix: We are different in that way at least.
druth Vlodovic: hope you have a good way around that, politics goes pretty close to the heart of a person
Korel Laloix: Well, we are different in a lot of ways.. lol
druth Vlodovic: though I often find that opposing viewpoints can come from the same base values
Korel Laloix: We have ideas that overlap on the really important things.. we just differ in the approach and which parts of history we look at.
Korel Laloix: And that is the case with Sama and I.
druth Vlodovic: what is your approach?
Korel Laloix: We agree on the look of certain problems.. I see a good leadership from elected officials to be the least worst way to fix those problems.
druth Vlodovic: ok, what does she think?
druth Vlodovic: we keep losing people
Qt Core: i must go, sleep time but still a few things to do beforehand
Qt Core: bye