2013.04.21 07:00 - Thought-terminating Cliches

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: hiya Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Good morning Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: ready for dancing :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Can't seem to take off this dress, although I don't think I'll make the flamenco lessons on Wed
Bleu Oleander: hard to take off red :)
Eliza Madrigal: ...and you are in... oleanders?
Bleu Oleander: blue violets
Eliza Madrigal: lovely
Bleu Oleander: did do oleanders once ... hmmm have to rummage through my inventory lol
Eliza Madrigal smiles... I remember the oleander decor at a house or gallery you built
Eliza Madrigal: but not an oleander avatar
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: oleander poofers too
Bleu Oleander: lol
Eliza Madrigal: yes! it is a subtle blue color... really like it
Eliza Madrigal: Have you read the "drunk tank pink" book?
Bleu Oleander: fun how different colors make us feel different
Bleu Oleander: no
Bleu Oleander: good?
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhhh... this is pretty interesting....
Bleu Oleander: googling
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't read the book but its author has given interviews Science Friday, etc
Eliza Madrigal: the title comes from the fact that there is a certain color of pink that calms people
Bleu Oleander: sounds fun
Eliza Madrigal: and they've tried to use it in rooms where a violent person may need to begin detoxing, etc
Eliza Madrigal: but ....
Eliza Madrigal: if they overdo it, and keep the person there a long time, it begins to have opposite effects
Bleu Oleander: interesting
Bleu Oleander: will listen later ...
Eliza Madrigal: I thought of it because in the book they also mention that people on dating sites who wear red, really do get more attention etc
Eliza Madrigal: a trigger
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Bleu Oleander: I love red
Bleu Oleander: use it in my paintings a lot
Bleu Oleander: in fact I paint the entire canvas red to start
Eliza Madrigal: that's a bold beginning
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: somehow afraid of a white canvas lol
Eliza Madrigal: do you feel it is sensed underneath what comes next?
Bleu Oleander: so gets me past that
Eliza Madrigal: interesting trick!
Bleu Oleander: yes definitely sensed underneath
Bleu Oleander: comes through
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps our emotions are like that... washes beneath the surface
Bleu Oleander: can let in as much as I want
Bleu Oleander: indeed
Bleu Oleander: emotions as colors
Bleu Oleander: films over perception
Eliza Madrigal: ah, I like that ... makes sense
Bleu Oleander: am reading a wonderful collection of stories
Bleu Oleander: Alibis: Essays on Elsewhere by Aciman
Bleu Oleander: amazing writer
Bleu Oleander: hiya Kori
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori :)
Korel Laloix: SDorry... sort of lost control.
Korel Laloix: heya
Eliza Madrigal: :) it happens... even as avies, lol
Korel Laloix: Sl has a mind of it's own for sure.
Eliza Madrigal: Are the essays about identity, Bleu?
Korel Laloix: I think they program it do be embarrasing... or at least social akward as default.
Eliza Madrigal grins... maybe so
Bleu Oleander: yes and place
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I resisted the idea of people being identified with places or where they come from/who they are related to, for a long time
Eliza Madrigal: think I felt it as a false link, or at least that had been my feeling about myself. As I get older, I can appreciate it more and more
Eliza Madrigal: without the same defensiveness perhaps
Korel Laloix: Depends on how penetrating you want to use the world "identity' to mean
Bleu Oleander: sense of place is very strong to me
Eliza Madrigal: true, both
Bleu Oleander: even in sl
Bleu Oleander: I don't think we're aware of how strong it influences us
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it took SL for me to appreciate it more.... really do experience myself as different in different places
Eliza Madrigal: but that also as liberating, fluid
Bleu Oleander: Aciman talks about a film we place over everything
Bleu Oleander: when seeing
Korel Laloix: A film?
Bleu Oleander: when recalling, it's the film we are looking for
Bleu Oleander: a way of seeing
Bleu Oleander: our view of things
Bleu Oleander: reality
Korel Laloix: Oh OK.
Bleu Oleander: our viewpoint overlayed on reality
Eliza Madrigal: I may like this metaphor more than "filters" which we sometimes talk about.... it is thinner, fuzzier
Bleu Oleander: "the radiance we project on things"
Eliza Madrigal: the way a drop of dye colors a glass of water
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: an intimate relationship with reality
Korel Laloix: It helps us understand things in most situation,s but can make us come to wrong conclusions on occastion.
Eliza Madrigal: subtle exchanges
Bleu Oleander: are there wrong conclusions?
Korel Laloix: Lots of them... ih ave made quite a few... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: I think I have a natural tallent for it sometimes.
Korel Laloix smiles
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: trigger happy :)
Bleu Oleander: how do we judge a wrong conclusion?
Korel Laloix: I just have a temper sometimes.
Korel Laloix: Sometimes people mistake me for being black.
Korel Laloix: A wrong conclusion, just most people outsides certainareas dont meet people like me ever in their lives... so they just don't know.
Eliza Madrigal: so you feel protective over your identity in some way, you mean?
Korel Laloix: And the way epople trat me based on that can be very odd or disturbing.
Korel Laloix: I do in a way, yes.
Eliza Madrigal: does that give you perpective? empathy, though?
Bleu Oleander: well that can happen with any bias
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: not only race, gender etc
Korel Laloix: It also feeds my prjudeices.
Eliza Madrigal: may give an impression that leaks into other impressions
Bleu Oleander: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implici...takeatest.html
Korel Laloix: Just a weird place to be in the skin pallet I guess.
Bleu Oleander: very interesting to take these test on line
Bleu Oleander: we think we aren't biased
Eliza Madrigal: I've experienced it more in terms of class and education
Bleu Oleander: think is the key word there hehe
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: :) those tests are well worth playing with - humility enhancers ^.^
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: "Blind Spot" interesting book by test developers
Korel Laloix: Interesting thing about prejudices...
Eliza Madrigal: each blind spot a wormhole :)
Korel Laloix: When I saw this was from Harvard, I imidiatly dicounted it.
Bleu Oleander: why is that?
Korel Laloix: As I have never met a Harvard graduate that was a competie educator or lawyer.... all ultra biased, arogant, rich and elietist.
Bleu Oleander: wow such a bias!
Korel Laloix: Well, 100% of my samples size of about 12.
Korel Laloix: lol
Bleu Oleander: lol
Eliza Madrigal: I think that makes sense ... think it is also a huge reason US politics has a schism of class... because people believe that there isn't true equal access and therefore elite schools don't include range of backgrounds
Bleu Oleander: see that's what others do to you too
Eliza Madrigal: this came up actually in the harvard ethics lectures
Bleu Oleander: MOOCs are catching on
Eliza Madrigal: and most present admitted that they came from privileged backgrounds in some way
Bleu Oleander: article in NYtimes today .... oops probably biased agains times too lol
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Korel Laloix: But that sad part is.... it is all marketing. they actually do not do a better job than other places.
Zen Arado: 's current display-name is "Zen".
Eliza Madrigal: Well I do think there is a reputation to uphold that is some pressure applied... which enabled them to admit to their skew during those lectures for instance
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Korel Laloix: The elitists there can't think out of the elitist box. Adnd they have given themselves the right to tell me what to think as well... that is the sad part.... lol
Bleu Oleander: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/op...niversity.html
Eliza Madrigal clicks
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi Eliza, Bleu, Kori
Bleu Oleander: so anti-elitist .... just as bad as elitist?
Korel Laloix: I hope far worse... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I'll take more time with this - it is something I'm really interested in and in a way, a focus of Kira potentially... accessibility
Bleu Oleander: i've taken a few classes
Bleu Oleander: very interesting
Korel Laloix: Silly test... asking me if I preffer Obama to Nixon... what do I knwo about Nixon?
Korel Laloix: I don't guess I will take this test... smilmes
Eliza Madrigal: most are raised with stories told around them.... Nixon is often included...lol
Zen Arado: JFK beat Nixon because the TV debate era had arrived
Bleu Oleander: so nothing is quite that simple
Eliza Madrigal nods
Zen Arado: so all presidents now are in forties married with two chiddren
Eliza Madrigal: timing matters
Bleu Oleander: was reading about "thought-terminating cliches"
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh neat phrase ::listens::::
Korel Laloix: I think with Bush 43 and 44, I have never had a competent or humane prseidnet that I can remember... so sort of bitter about the whole thing.
Zen Arado: same in UK..all bland and fit image
Bleu Oleander: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought...ng_clich%C3%A9
Bleu Oleander: politics uses many lol
Eliza Madrigal: this phrase could be used that way too!
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: "Oh <whatever you just said> is just a thought terminating cliche'." lollol
Bleu Oleander: haha
Zen Arado: I can't say anything now
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bleu Oleander: haha
--BELL--

Zen Arado: I'll just forget it
Eliza Madrigal: this is the end... beautiful friends, the end....
Bleu Oleander: yes fun to become conscious this
Zen Arado: There you go again Reagan
Eliza Madrigal: it is fascinating though, because the cliche's all have the common quality of shutting down dialog
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Eliza Madrigal: so they are, 'violent' communication in some sense
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: Such is life
Bleu Oleander: haha
Eliza Madrigal: yet also... some conversations couldn't move forward without a shock or shift so... hm
Eliza Madrigal: yes interesting
Bleu Oleander: we can mine the logs for these phrases ... i'm sure there are a few
Eliza Madrigal: some could accuse koans of being this way
Bleu Oleander: could
Bleu Oleander: although a different goal there perhaps?
Eliza Madrigal: yes.. are meant to sort of suspend a certain way of thinking to see if there is another that appears
Zen Arado: But koans usually open up rather than closed down
Eliza Madrigal nods... but when you first encountered them didn't they seem dismissive?
Zen Arado: They stop people using cliches
Bleu Oleander: intention is a factor
Eliza Madrigal: nodding
Bleu Oleander: example?
Zen Arado: And well worn ways of thinking
Eliza Madrigal: so a conversation that goes down the same track over and over may be questioned by a koan
Korel Laloix: Fully.. taking this test... and it is telling me that it wrong to think the word "glorious" is negative.... lol
Zen Arado: yes
Korel Laloix: Funny
Eliza Madrigal: to see if it is personal experience or something picked up steps removed
Zen Arado: because much of our thinking is conditioned into grooves of the society we live in
Eliza Madrigal: :) Korel
Bleu Oleander: hard to get away from that
Bleu Oleander: which test are you taking?
Zen Arado: glorious failure
Eliza Madrigal: that means it is a brilliant failure!
Korel Laloix: The president one.
Zen Arado: yes
Eliza Madrigal: "spectacular catastrophe!"
Zen Arado: it means you tried unreservedly to do something that might have been impossible really
Korel Laloix: And it s tilling me I have to associate Nixon with Joy...
Bleu Oleander: really?
Zen Arado: I remember an artist saying that a water colour painting should be either a glorious success or a glorious failure but not just mediocre
Bleu Oleander: i'll have to take that one lol
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Korel Laloix: It won't let me assign any good terms with Obama.
Eliza Madrigal: :) Zen... nice that you bring it back there - we began with art metaphors
Eliza Madrigal: am going to get settled in the Hall, and run for coffee
Bleu Oleander: I should do same
Zen Arado: kk
Bleu Oleander: thanks all
Eliza Madrigal: I know better than to get cereal because it will sit once people arrive
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Bleu, great session
Bleu Oleander: maybe take that test now ... ty Kori
Bleu Oleander: lol
Zen Arado: thank you Bleu
Bleu Oleander: see you in the hall
Eliza Madrigal: :)) see you there
Zen Arado: yep
--BELL--

Yakuzza Lethecus: 's current display-name is "Yaku".
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey korel
Korel Laloix: Heya
Korel Laloix: Sory was taking some silly test...

(a thought-terminating cliche perhaps?)

Korel Laloix: How are you today? Blue and Eliza just left.