2015.03.29 07:00 - Intention

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

A few days before I had sent out the following message:

This coming Sunday morning, as part of the anniversary celebration, I am planning a theme session of sorts: "Intentions". Along with the changes in PaB we are going to undergo, I am beginning a series of changes in my own life. In my case I am slowly examining my motives for all the projects I am considering.

 How do our intentions going into a project affect the outcome? How do our everyday intentions affect us and those around us. In Buddhist terms, "good" intentions are those which do not cause suffering to ourselves or those around us. We might prefer the phrase "effective" intentions. Sometimes we think we are helping people but if we look closely our intentions have a selfish component that may lead to regrettable results.

Looking forward to a discussion about "intentions" on Sunday. Hope to see you there.

Adams

In the intervening time, I learned I had misunderstood something important about the Buddhist teachings on "good intention" and that is intention takes place in the present and not in the future. In other words, in everything we do we can be mindful of our intentions or actions and act with generosity and compassion.

Darren Islar: 's current display-name is "leaping Panther".
Darren Islar: HI THERE
Darren Islar: oi
Adams Rubble: Hello Darren :)
Adams Rubble: Nice to see you :)
Darren Islar: thank you ... nice to see you as well
Adams Rubble: nice morning in rl today
Adams Rubble: sun is shining
Darren Islar: here it's raining
Adams Rubble: ohhhh
Adams Rubble: we've had much of that
Darren Islar: we're gonna have some of it more :)
Adams Rubble: almost time for April showers
Darren Islar: yes
Adams Rubble: I have been thinking much about intentions lately
Adams Rubble: I was surprised to see that the Oxford English Dictionary gives 18 different meanings
Darren Islar: -wolw
Darren Islar: wo
Darren Islar: wwow
Darren Islar: wow
Darren Islar: ok, that was four times :)
Adams Rubble: they all seem to be from the western idea of the word
Xirana Oximoxi: 's current display-name is "Xirana".
Adams Rubble: :) to 4 times
Adams Rubble: Hello Xirana :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Adams and leaping :)
Darren Islar: hey Xira
Adams Rubble: I just mentioned that the Oxford English Dictionary has 18 different meanings for the word intention
Darren Islar: .
Adams Rubble: Pema liked to remind us of the shortcomings of using words to try to describe our experiences.
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...and there are probably even more depending on the context and use and the ton...
Adams Rubble: Samuel Johnson’s quote “Hell is paved with good intentions” expresses the western thoughts about intentions. In this sense the word intention refers to a purpose or design that is often mixed with a paternalistic attitude.
Darren Islar: :) I think he is right there
Darren Islar: Pema that is
Adams Rubble: Hello Raffia :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Darren Islar: hi Raff
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Raffi
Darren Islar: The western ideas about intention and karma and such have much to do with the idea of sin
Raffila Millgrove: Hi Adams, Darren, Xiri
Adams Rubble: I was listening to a somewhat sappy song this morning by Randy Travis called "Good Intentions"
Adams Rubble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y74-ZikQRNI
Darren Islar: instead of having been translated as "not fulfilled' or something, it's translated in shortcoming, failure and guilt
Adams Rubble: The lyrics are here: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/randytravis/goodintentions.html
Adams Rubble: yes, exactly Darren
Xirana Oximoxi: thanks Adams
Adams Rubble: this song is an illustration of what you just said Darren
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Adams Rubble: The narrator does not really know himself. In his case, he would have needed to break out of his box that was reinforced by his dear Mama. There is no mental effort to reach beyond his paternal role model which would have required some understanding and compassion for his role model father. Still it is a catchy tune
Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Adams, place looks beautiful!
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri, Darren, Raffi :)
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...wonderful! and feeling sring
Xirana Oximoxi: spring
Darren Islar: hi Eliza
Darren Islar: .
Adams Rubble: Hello Riddle :)
Darren Islar: no but that obviousness is what most people live with
Riddle Sideways: hi All
Darren Islar: hi Riddle
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Riddle :)
Eliza Madrigal: Morning Riddle :)
Darren Islar: it's hard to grasp what is the intention of our lives, or even of this moment
Adams Rubble: yes, it takes work
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: It seems to me there is another big difference between the east and west meanings of intention and that is that for the west intention points to the future and for Buddhists, intention is in the present moment
Darren Islar: yes
Adams Rubble: It is a mtter of reinexamining our motives especially when things are not going so well
Adams Rubble: re-examining
Darren Islar: though we don't forget about the future, all intentions, motivations and such are pointed at one thing, whether in the here and now or in the future
Adams Rubble: I searched on intention in a thesaurus and came up with the following
Adams Rubble: generosity, compassion, affection, altruism, benevolence, cordiality, courtesy, decency, forbearance, gentleness, good will, goodness, grace, graciousness, hospitality, humanity, patience, solicitude, sweetness, sympathy, tenderness, tolerance, understanding, unselfishness, amiability, beneficence, charity, clemency, consideration, delicacy, heart, helpfulness, indulgence, kindliness, magnanimity, mildness, philanthropy, serviceability, solicitousness, tact, thoughtfulness, fellow feeling
Adams Rubble: imagine if we had all that when we need it :)
Riddle Sideways: tact
Darren Islar: ha!
Xirana Oximoxi: well..there's also the 'intention' to do bad things
Adams Rubble: yes Xirana
Darren Islar: yes. those seems to be more examples, and only one way
Adams Rubble: we like to think we have good intentions
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...the adjective that goes with this noun will tell us about the features of it
Darren Islar: describe good to a murderer, he will have an understanding of that, but whether it's the same as yours ....
Adams Rubble: The murderer is someone else who started out with good intentions and went off track
Adams Rubble: might think like Randy Travis's character
Adams Rubble: especially when thinking of his saintly Mama
Darren Islar: a lot of people who are in the IS think they do the right thing
Raffila Millgrove: would you say for sure that we all start with good intentions... i'd lean towards neutral intentions and circumstances of birth playing a role ...
Xirana Oximoxi: IS?
Darren Islar: but ;et's not go to the IS
Darren Islar: Islamatice State
Eliza Madrigal: mostly I think not examining intentions is the ground for doing regrettable things, like, if I see myself as a person of pure intentions I might be more likely to do less aware things, because I'm blocking out a lot...refusing to see
Xirana Oximoxi: oh! thanks leaper
Riddle Sideways: very hard to see our own intentions. oh so easy for others to point out our intentions for us
Darren Islar: right Eliza
Adams Rubble: There is a scathing attack on American good intentions at http://www.swaraj.org/illich_hell.htm. You do not have time to read it all now but he basically is telling United Srtates "do gooders" to get out of Latin America
Raffila Millgrove: how can others "see" inside the mind? I don't care much about others intentions--what I care about are the consequences that arise from actions/speech. No one has the intention to run over someone else usually.. someone else is still dead.. doesn't matter what intent was.
Adams Rubble: Yes Eliza and to Riddle, yes, it is useful for us to work on those
Adams Rubble: yes Raffia
Adams Rubble: we can best focus on our own intentions
Darren Islar: for the person it does
Eliza Madrigal: less likely to run over a person if aware of where one is and what one is doing, of abilities and surroundings in the moment
Adams Rubble nods
Adams Rubble: awareness
Eliza Madrigal: I had that experience, literally, and it isn't one easily forgotten, thankfully no one hurt for lifetime or killed
Xirana Oximoxi: do we have some 'intentions' as a group for the future of PaB ?...just asking...'we' here can be very diverse :)
Darren Islar: the problemwith the man in the song is he didn't think through his deeds
Eliza Madrigal: yes Xiri hard to get ahold of 'we' intentions :)
Adams Rubble: yes, he had a paternal role model and he could not get out of his box
Adams Rubble: to Darren
Xirana Oximoxi: yes :)
Adams Rubble: reinforced by his mother unwittingly
Raffila Millgrove: i think that is a very good question Xirana.. can a group verablize and share the same intention? and if so.. what is that intention for PAB's future.
Darren Islar: yes to both :)
Xirana Oximoxi: I asked just to see if someone has thought about it :)
Raffila Millgrove: I have thought about it a lot in recent times. wondering.
Darren Islar: my intention is clear, but is indeed personal
Adams Rubble: I have thought about my own intentions Xirana
Eliza Madrigal: I've finally narrowed down to my own, after years of trying to think as/for the group
Raffila Millgrove: i have thought two ways. my intention. group intention. I cannot fix mine until I know what is the group and am I aligned with it.
Adams Rubble: Coming back, it useful to think about our intentions in the present
Adams Rubble: as we move forward, what are we doing now?
Xirana Oximoxi: yes....somehow it's also great to feel the group is so open and free to participate as we feel better
Raffila Millgrove: what is the group intention? can I share that intention ok? those are my two thoughts in that order.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Darren Islar: I like to put some time in it as support, but I have no intention to be PaB or in the center of it ... when it moves in between certain lines I will give it my support
Xirana Oximoxi: like each one feels better*
Darren Islar: and that is my intention right now as well
--BELL--
Darren Islar: when I can learn, that would be great
Eliza Madrigal: makes sense, except if group becomes something outside of oneself, since we are all the group
Darren Islar: that is not my intention Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Oh Darren, a tricky question

Darren Islar: what is your intention right now Adams?
Adams Rubble: Have a good session and not make anyone suffer
Adams Rubble: :)
Darren Islar nods
Xirana Oximoxi: wonderful! :)
Riddle Sideways: are your intentions honorable
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: :) Riddle. I hope so
Darren Islar: I like to ask if somebone's intentions are beneficial
Adams Rubble: or effective, Darren
Darren Islar: yes in a beneficial way
Eliza Madrigal: I guess I see intentions as something different than a formed mission statement, as though they can be general but not known until appearing, if that makes sense
Eliza Madrigal: "good will"
Darren Islar: yes, I see what you mean
Adams Rubble: working in the present, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: mhm, like there is something in hand, but then underneath there is the intention
Adams Rubble: Pema used to like to say he had no idea where PaB was going to go
Adams Rubble: was interested in finding out
Darren Islar NODS
Darren Islar: oops
Adams Rubble: np
Eliza Madrigal: one person does one thing with what was in hand, and another another, and both may be fruitful depending on possibly wildly different intentions
Eliza Madrigal: *is
Eliza Madrigal: I think he still says that :))
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Yes, we humans are a complicated bunch
Eliza Madrigal: layers :)
Darren Islar: becoming aware of those intentions is interesting though
Adams Rubble: Someone said you are all perfect and all could use a little improvement
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Darren Islar: it might change your normal patterns
Adams Rubble: yes Darren
Raffila Millgrove: did Pema thnk Pab would go someplace? or did he think.. the journey itself was the goal.. not the destination. i would guess he was thinking of the journey.
Xirana Oximoxi: what's great is that we have been able to keep this place to continue 'investigating' where Pab is going to :)
Adams Rubble: Pema was starting at the end :)
Raffila Millgrove: eh? what? like there is an end? am i missing something?
Adams Rubble: Yes, here we all are 7 years later :)
Adams Rubble: :) Raffia, we have been asking that for 7 years
Eliza Madrigal: 'nothing to attain or realize' but to celebrate
Darren Islar: he started too much at the end
Adams Rubble: can't wait to see the beginning
Darren Islar: heh
Eliza Madrigal: and yet Pema is one of the most meticulous and detailed people... so it can be an odd puzzle
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: each of us has had their own journey I suspect
Darren Islar: he skipped the method
Adams Rubble: I know I have
Adams Rubble: the method was exploration
Adams Rubble: what can we find out about orselves?
Adams Rubble: ourselves
Eliza Madrigal: community is a big part of the exploration, possibly more than was intended at first
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: how am I doing Riddle?
Xirana Oximoxi: we know ourselves interacting with others :)
Riddle Sideways: still starting
Eliza Madrigal nods Xiri
Darren Islar: grins
Riddle Sideways: being here now
Riddle Sideways: then looking at the path that got here
Adams Rubble: yes, Xirana we learn much from that
Riddle Sideways: or just happy to be here
Adams Rubble: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: forgot to be a fixed intention
Riddle Sideways: what if an I showed up here with no intention
Xirana Oximoxi: hehe:) moving intention ...going with the wind
Darren Islar: you do, you showed up
Adams Rubble: I think most times we do show up with no intention, don;t you think?
Xirana Oximoxi: yes, I agree Adams
Eliza Madrigal: Sun likes to use the expression waiting for the next wind, a guess like the film Chocolat :)
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: peaked interest that Adams had intentions about this session
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I find that I follow things and don't realize I'm preparing for something, although it could be vice versa...just doesn't feel that way until some 'revelation'
Darren Islar: I think there is always an intention if not more than one, not knowing them makes us repeat the patters, knowing and understanding them, might make us differ from it
Adams Rubble: yes Darren
Riddle Sideways: mary poppins will stay until the wind changes
Darren Islar: right Eliza
Darren Islar: did you learn from PaB?
Riddle Sideways: all the time
Adams Rubble: is that a general question Darren?
Adams Rubble: I have
Eliza Madrigal: I think so
Xirana Oximoxi: yes, me too...always learning
Eliza Madrigal: I'm still not the person I thought PaB might make me into, hehe... my paper doll version of why I was doing this
Darren Islar: (sorry Adams I missed your post, my connection sometimes drops)
Eliza Madrigal: she is in much better shape and does far more benevolent acts
Darren Islar: that's an interesting one Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: definitely take self less seriously :))
Darren Islar: what is it that PaB might do to make you in a different person, and what would that person look like?
Adams Rubble: thank you Eliza
Adams Rubble: I wonder if it is our self examination that is the difference
Adams Rubble: PaB the incubator
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Adams Rubble: or catalyst
Riddle Sideways: could not know that, Darren until having gone miles down that road
Darren Islar: hehe
Riddle Sideways: an intention to show up
Darren Islar: exactly Riddle
Riddle Sideways: then 7 years later contenplate the navel
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes a seeming distraction becomes ground for the main richness
Darren Islar: which also means that having intentions about certain changes will not work, it might even disappoint you
Riddle Sideways: never had the intention to wage war on pronouns
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Eliza Madrigal: lollol
Darren Islar: oh, nice one Eliza
Raffila Millgrove: my original understanding of PAB was not quite accurate.. it took me quite awhile of reading thru the logs to get the picture. so my first impulse about PAB and why I might be here wasn't exactly correct.. but I stayed anyway because I liked the people here.
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: that seems the heart of the matter Raffi :)
Eliza Madrigal: "good company"
Xirana Oximoxi: it happened the same to me Raffi...I was not sure what PaB was about until I guessed that it was about the people
Xirana Oximoxi: the people here
Darren Islar: what about them?
Raffila Millgrove: as Eliza mentioed earlier.. that community might not have been .. playing a big role at first.. when first envisioned, but it did evolve that way.
Eliza Madrigal: is there some intention in that too, like, the people feel to make one a better person, or, not exactly but ... it isn't exactly just acknowledging others
Eliza Madrigal: lots of people I like in the world, but not necessarily want to make myself open to, let in, in that kind of way
Xirana Oximoxi: what about us....intersting, nice, warm people...
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Riddle Sideways: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)) yes
Adams Rubble: nice looking grouip of avatars :)
Darren Islar: hehe
Xirana Oximoxi: :))
Darren Islar: what is interesting about them/us?
Eliza Madrigal: I like Eos's notion of strange attractors
Raffila Millgrove: well it's energy. you get several toxic people in a room, you have nasty feuds flowing... this atmosphere.... it's not too condusive to the newbie.. feeling ok.. but.. if people are warm and kind to each other and welcoming.. then you get idea.. things are cozier.. German phrase fits better: gemutchlische stimmung (sp). All German would understand that describes pab.
Eliza Madrigal makes note of phrase
Xirana Oximoxi: capacity to 'play' is one...to enjoy and share and be respectful to others...
Adams Rubble: R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Darren Islar: gezellig :)
Eliza Madrigal: gazelle-ing?
Adams Rubble: :)
Raffila Millgrove: what i liked best about PAB when I first came is Fridays we would Play. I came for the play.
Adams Rubble: leaping our way through Being
Darren Islar: no, but it's the translation of the German, English doesn't have a word for it ... Obama even learned the word
Eliza Madrigal: Eden said that too.... that onigokko hooked her, the group had depths and great heights of silliness
Eliza Madrigal: so a peculiar range perhaps
Raffila Millgrove: when I got to be guardian we had a little Friday party with both cAKE.. i love cake and these strange and fantastic stead barbecues that cooked right on your own platter. i still have it.. i play with it sometimes. everyone finds it amazing still.
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Eliza Madrigal: I have a photo of that I think.... we had steak and bananas
Xirana Oximoxi: I must go now....thanks for the nice chat all and see you very soon at the party! :)
Eliza Madrigal: ntsy Xiri :) see you soon
Adams Rubble: buy Xirana :)
Adams Rubble: bye
--BELL--
Xirana Oximoxi: bye :)
Darren Islar: thank you too Xirana and all of you, I'm on a tight schedule as well
Adams Rubble: bye Darren :)
Eliza Madrigal: and I must fix my headset before the poetry event....
Adams Rubble: I enjoyed your conversation
Adams Rubble: bye Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Darren, Raffi, Adams, Riddle - thanks so much
Riddle Sideways: thanks
Adams Rubble: bye Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: buy
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Raffila Millgrove: eh i finally found it.
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: sigh... sorry trying to get to retreat center to send black shirt
Eliza Madrigal: don't midn me
Eliza Madrigal: mind
Raffila Millgrove: hehe that's ok.. my steak is ready.
Adams Rubble: :)
Raffila Millgrove: i will just have a nice bite to eat while you work Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Adams Rubble: well, I better get back to my rl chores too :)
Adams Rubble: enjoy your steak :)
Adams Rubble: nice to see you this morning Raffia :)
Raffila Millgrove: ty Adams for hosting us.
Raffila Millgrove: wow i feel so much better now. nothing like a good steak for breakfast!
Adams Rubble: :)

If you have gotten this far, you may be interested in this article called "Heart's Intention": http://dharmawisdom.org/teachings/articles/hearts-intention