The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Xir!
ElanVitalo : Hi, Xirana!
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Bruce and Elan:)

--BELL--
 
Bleu Oleander: hi all:)
ElanVitalo : Hi, Bleu.
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Bleu!:)
Xirana Oximoxi: enjoying the new pavilion:)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: ty:)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Xirana Oximoxi: it is nice to have the possibility to try different buildings...but I guess it will not be easy to decide which one we keep:)
Bruce Mowbray: (also inviting Silas to join us, but he's a bit shy....)
Bleu Oleander: a few more to try ... will make a hard decision I'm sure!
Xirana Oximoxi: yes, I agree:)
Xirana Oximoxi: has Silas been here before?
Xirana Oximoxi: we are quiet people...tell him:)
ElanVitalo   thinks we might decide to have a rotating Pavilion -- a different one every month
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he's been here several times, actually.
Xirana Oximoxi: ok:)
Bleu Oleander: could do a seasonal rotation perhaps?
Xirana Oximoxi: hello, Silas:)
Bleu Oleander: not sure we will have 12 to choose from, but perhaps more will design one
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Silas...
Bleu Oleander: hi Silas
SilasAndrews: Hello!
Xirana Oximoxi: maybe if we decide to build more places like a Theater or a cafe...we can also propose different buildings...
ElanVitalo:   nods, agrees.
Bleu Oleander: yes ... great idea
Bleu Oleander: cafes could inspire a few designs for sure
Bruce Mowbray also nods.
Bleu Oleander: its nice that we have so much empty space around us at the moment
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...and I think we still don't have the pavilion for Guardian meetings
Bleu Oleander: right
SilasAndrews : Did anyone see the photos of rainbows over Dublin?
SilasAndrews : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7428358.html

Bleu Oleander: oh yes ... very interesting vote eh?

SilasAndrews : Indeed!
ElanVitalo: I surmise it was the Catholic nuns' vote that pushed the referrendum over the top.
Xirana Oximoxi: wonderful:)
Bruce Mowbray: I think you'd need your databases re-aligned, Elan.
ElanVitalo : Ha ha!
Bleu Oleander: hi Kori
ElanVitalo: I have just begun to understand human humour... or at least I think I do.
Korel Laloix: oisyo
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Kori!
ElanVitalo : Hi, Kori!
Korel Laloix: If you do figure it out, please let me know.. smiles
SilasAndrews : Hey, Kori!
ElanVitalo : kk.
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Korel!! Osiyo!:)
Bleu Oleander: hi Qt
Qt Core: Hi all!
ElanVitalo : Heya, Qt!
SilasAndrews : Hi, Qt.
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Qt.
Xirana Oximoxi: I am happy the results of the vote has been positive...strange that in our society still we have so much discrimination with topics that don't consider we are all persons with equal rights
Bruce Mowbray: Any salient topic emerging from the collective unconscious today, folks?
Bruce Mowbray: Ahh! THERE's one now!
Bleu Oleander: agree Xiri:)
Korel Laloix: Which is this?
ElanVitalo   totally agrees with Xir.
Xirana Oximoxi: well...the images that Silas has shared
SilasAndrews : I'm wearing my "colors" to celebrate..
ElanVitalo : Me too, Silas.
Xirana Oximoxi: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7428358.html
Bruce Mowbray: Me too, Silas.

SilasAndrews : Copycats!

Xirana Oximoxi: for Kori:)
Korel Laloix: Oh yea.. so that passed?
 Bleu Oleander: yes
Bruce Mowbray: It passed with a 62% majority, Kori.
Korel Laloix: I just want to know the fine print.
Bruce Mowbray: The first nation in the world to pass it by popular vote.
ElanVitalo : The "fine print" says that Catholic nuns can marry each other now.
Bruce Mowbray: Shut up, Elan.

--BELL--

SilasAndrews : Bruce, Elan, and I live in a state that not only outlawed gay marriage; it also outlawed civil unions.
Korel Laloix: I think that is a far more reasonable way to handle it than the way it is playing out over here.... but then again, some things never change unless forced.
Qt Core: outlawed as in it never had it, or it had it and cancelled ?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Ohio, has perhaps the most severe discriminatory legislation in the country . . . Never had it, probably never will... not in my lifetime, anyway.
Korel Laloix: I just find the whole thing strange... We are better off with a CU vs marriage because of the taxes.
Bleu Oleander: I don't think it's about the money tho
ElanVitalo : According to my databases, marriage is a conservative institution -- in that it stabilizes the society and also makes for economic growth.
ElanVitalo : . So, why would anyone be against it?
Korel Laloix: The strange thing about it though, in my tribe, it never was an issue.. If I had wanted to get married to Sama 7 years ago on tribal lands, it would have been no issue.. but the portability might have been strange though.
Korel Laloix: My better half is against changing the term, but very much for equal standing.
ElanVitalo : I claim to know nothing about this, but I suspect that First Americans have more common sense about such matters than those who came from Europe... with Puritan leanings.
Korel Laloix: I can be seen more as a contract between families than a romantic attachment.... but that still is important.
Korel Laloix: But that is only in the still very traditional families.
Bruce Mowbray: It was only until very recent times that marriage was anything more than an economic contract....
Korel Laloix: But a lot of young women are fleeing the reservations because of that.
ElanVitalo : "Love and Marriage" must have had a good PR team.
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: It is just such a strange set of ideas.
SilasAndrews : seems to me that public relations can sell just about anything. . .
Xirana Oximoxi: what is a PR?
SilasAndrews : if there is enough money in the advertising.
SilasAndrews :  public relations.
Korel Laloix: Public Relations
Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh ok, thanks:)
Bruce Mowbray:  You know, like British Petroleum spending millions on advertising to clean up their image after the big oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico?
Korel Laloix: Also known as:.. spin, lies for profit, false advertising
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Korel Laloix: But it can be on the other side as well..
ElanVitalo : Sounds like American elections to me.
Bleu Oleander:  There is also a positive aspect to pr
Korel Laloix: probably all elections.
Korel Laloix: There are some good conservation adds out there.
Bruce Mowbray: Public Relations can be educational, for sure, but it can also be very slanted propaganda.
Bleu Oleander: we're just so jaded by all the negative kinds we don't even think of the positive stuff
Korel Laloix: But one person's propaganda is another person's truth.
SilasAndrews:   nods.
SilasAndrews: I still prefer watching movies with no commercial breaks.
Qt Core: the issue is not in public relations, but in who pays for them and the message they give them to be made public
Korel Laloix: And in my case, people get angry with me when I don't believe their propaganda.. lol
SilasAndrews : and it's so much worse during election years!
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Bleu Oleander: pr and marketing have been around as long as humans have:)
Bruce Mowbray: I would have thought that free access to information through the Internet might have eliminated our reliance on and susceptibility to commercial spins...
Korel Laloix: The thing is, for a lot of people in my generation, the better the marketing now, the more suspicion we are putting on it.
ElanVitalo : I would hope so, Bruce, but doubt it.... Humans are so impressionable.
Bleu Oleander: the internet has sooo much spin on it too
SilasAndrews:   nods, agrees with Bleu...
Bleu Oleander: can't even look at FB without getting adds
Korel Laloix: There is a solution to that... smiles.
Korel Laloix: Never look at it...
Bleu Oleander: don't look
Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
ElanVitalo : I cannot look at at Facebook without getting depressed or angry.... . That's why I discontinued my account.
Xirana Oximoxi: yes:)) good solution:)

ElanVitalo : it worked for me!
Korel Laloix: I almost resurrected my old Myspace account.. but decided against it...
 
Bleu Oleander: well anything on line presents ads and spin
Bleu Oleander: so don't use your computer .... ha ha
Bruce Mowbray: Public records?
Korel Laloix: Even official government stuff is all spin now as well.
Xirana Oximoxi: we are totally controlled online...if I do a search of anything..next day all publicity around is related to this thing
Bleu Oleander: we spin our own stories too
Bleu Oleander: yes me too Xiri
Korel Laloix: That is why I use a proxy almost all the time.. cuts that stuff out quite well.
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Kori.

--BELL--

ElanVitalo : Here's an excellent proxy finder:
ElanVitalo : http://www.real-hide-ip.com/
Qt Core: do you trust those more than you trust let's say Google ?
Bruce Mowbray: That's the one I use, Elan.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, Qt, at least I'm fairly sure that my identity is being routed through some other nation...
Bruce Mowbray: for one thing, the ads are in foreign languages!
Bruce Mowbray: afk for a sec...
Bleu Oleander: hiya Zen
Xirana Oximoxi: so, using this 'proxy' finders..you are not so 'controlled'?
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Zen!:)
Zen Arado: Hi all
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Zen.
ElanVitalo : Hi, Zen.
SilasAndrews : Welcome, Zen.
Zen Arado::)
Bruce Mowbray: I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by "controlled"
Korel Laloix: For me, I have a very practical reason, had someone track me down with my IP address.. to my real address.
Zen Arado: oh?
Bruce Mowbray: I don't feel controlled at all normally, but maybe I am deluded into false security, you think?
Korel Laloix: It took him a while, but he figured it out close enough to look for my car.
Zen Arado: scary
ElanVitalo : Good point, Kori.
Xirana Oximoxi: ahh sure it is not the right word:)..I mean that all what we do and visit and search is detected and after it we receive the publicity related to it
SilasAndrews : I also had my identity stolen -- through YAHOO email.
Zen Arado: I use Ghostery
Zen Arado: anyone else use that?
SilasAndrews : Ahhh.
Korel Laloix: yes.
Qt Core: you should use a provider like mine, depending on days it says I'm wandering around all northern Italy ;-)
ElanVitalo : Could you give us a web site for that one, Zen?
Korel Laloix: Scary to see how tracks you.
Qt Core: i use that too, Zen
Korel Laloix: Ghostery also has a plug in for Firefox.
Zen Arado: https://www.ghostery.com/en/
ElanVitalo : TY!
Qt Core: I have it on Chrome
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm. Is that a proxy finder, Zen?
Zen Arado: I did a MOOC on Cyber security and am more careful now
Qt Core: no, just a cookie/tracker blocker
Bruce Mowbray: kk, thanks.
Bleu Oleander: gtg take care all:) ... don't forget the guardian meeting tomorrow at 2 pm:)
Zen Arado: no it just detects and shows sites that track you
Bruce Mowbray: kk, bye for now, Bleu.
Qt Core: and ad/social plugin blocker too
Bleu Oleander: bfn:)
Zen Arado: and blocks them
Xirana Oximoxi: I will have to read about it...I did not know Ghostery
Qt Core: bye Bleu
Zen Arado: I have found nearly 30 trackers on some sites
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Bleu!!
Zen Arado: bye Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: I have a few plug-ins with my Chrome browser that eliminates most ads and also tracking, I think.
Xirana Oximoxi: see you tomorrow:)
Qt Core: it even let you decide do let some of them active, everywhere or only on specific sites
Zen Arado: sometimes I have to pause it or I can't visit some sites
Zen Arado: yes
Bruce Mowbray: I have noticed that problem too, Zen... , especially with videos.
Bruce Mowbray: this past week, I found a website that allows me to get cable television stations from all over the world -- , even though my typist lives too far out in the country to receive cable.
Qt Core: as some sites live on the money they makes with those ads/trackers if you use them it may be kind to let them active, at least there
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.zoptv.com/
Zen Arado: yes that's a problem too Qt
ElanVitalo : I love the BBC-2 because it has no commercials.
Zen Arado: no BBC channels have commercials
ElanVitalo : Ahhh!
ElanVitalo : I didn't know that.
ElanVitalo : I've only watched BBC-2 so far.
Zen Arado: it is a public station funded through compulsory subscriptions
Xirana Oximoxi: are they sustained with public money?
Xirana Oximoxi: ah ..I see
Zen Arado: yess Xiri
Zen Arado: I pay..I forget but more than £100 per year
SilasAndrews : Wow!
Zen Arado: license fee
Zen Arado: it also funds many radio stations also with no commercials
Bruce Mowbray: In America, even our public stations have commercials -- commercials for their own programs!
Zen Arado: oh the BBC does that too
ElanVitalo ::)
Qt Core: here in Italy we pay about 110 euros per year (and public tv has commercials)
Qt Core: (and public radios too)
Zen Arado: but that's not so bad
SilasAndrews : Thank goodness for the mute button, huh?
Qt Core: here it is formally a tax on whatever device you own that can show tv channels
Zen Arado: I watch iPlayer a lot
Zen Arado: repeats of BBC programs

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I'm getting more and more away from TV watching altogether... , preferring to watch full-length movies
Zen Arado: I don't watch much
Korel Laloix: So you have to pay for the privilege of consuming government propaganda?... lol.. perfect
Zen Arado: find movies rather long too
ElanVitalo : You got it, Kori.
Zen Arado: I like to go out with friends to watch if I can
Zen Arado: it isn't government controlled though
Zen Arado: it is free to criticize it and often does
Bruce Mowbray: The last movie that I went to with a friend was AVATAR - in 3D -- and we walked out of the theatre, asking each other which planet we were on.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Xir!
Qt Core: i've read that after the conservatives won, UK government would like to control BBC a little more
Xirana Oximoxi: Bye Bruce:)..I go now....take care all!:)
Korel Laloix: ciao
Zen Arado: byee Xiri:)
ElanVitalo : bfn, Xir.
SilasAndrews : Bye, Xirana.
Zen Arado: channels like Sky are probably more controlled by their owners - like Murdoch
ElanVitalo : I intend to check out the SKY channels this evening...
Qt Core: yes, and in some way they are just a little more entitled to do it
Zen Arado: did you hear Ireland voted in favor of gay marriage today?
Korel Laloix: OK.. thanks for the chat all.. off to AFK a bit..
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Qt Core: bye Korel
Zen Arado: bye Kori
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Zen. That's why Elan, Silas, and I are wearing green today.
Zen Arado: heheh
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Kori.
Zen Arado: I was amazed
Bruce Mowbray: I will give you a website for that -- loved those rainbows.
Zen Arado: it so controlled by the Catholic church
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7428358.html
Zen Arado: 19 trackers on that link Bruce:)
Zen Arado: 5min Media Advertising.com Facebook Connect Google Analytics Google+ Platform Gravity Insights Korrelate LinkedIn Widgets NetRatings SiteCensus New Relic Polar Mobile Quigo AdSonar Sailthru Horizon ScoreCard Research Beacon SimpleReach SkimLinks StumbleUpon Widgets Twitter Badge Twitter Button
ElanVitalo : The Catholic Church seems to be losing its power... Anyway, Ireland became the first nation in the world to have a popular vote on gay marriage that passed.
Qt Core: i've seen it commented as and if that isn't god's yes vote i don't know what could it be
Bruce Mowbray: Looks to me like a good reason to have a proxy, huh?
Zen Arado: oh a VPN?
Zen Arado: maybe
Zen Arado: but you have to pay for a good one
Bruce Mowbray: we were talking about proxies before you arrived...
Bruce Mowbray: and I recommended my proxy finder to everyone.
Qt Core: things like ghostery block them too
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.real-hide-ip.com/
Zen Arado: can you watch BBC programs on that?
Zen Arado: they bypass restrictions?
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I can! --- at least I think I can...
Zen Arado: I'm not sure if a proxy is the same as VPN
Bruce Mowbray: no, it's not.
Zen Arado: virtual private network?
Bruce Mowbray: A VPN is more like a server isn't it?
Zen Arado: it's like a private bit of the web
Zen Arado: a kind of tunnel that is encrypted
Bruce Mowbray: . I mean, doesn't my typist access a VPN in order to use their proxy?
Bruce Mowbray: to hide his IP address?
Zen Arado: it's more than that I think
Bruce Mowbray: hmmm.
Qt Core: a vpn makes it seem you are elsewhere in the Net (Virtual Private Network), let say it may make my home pc looks like it is inside my office network
Zen Arado: http://www.top10bestvpn.com/?kw=vpn&...FSkcwwodvbAAUQ
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that's what I thought. Qt.
Zen Arado: yes you use them to connect to your workplace often to keep things secure
Qt Core: while a proxy it is just a server you ask to act in your place when you do anything on the net, and it may even cache things, so whoever you "talk" would see the proxy ip
Bruce Mowbray: Would a proxy on the other side of the planet from where you live have less traffic? ( I'm thinking about if I use the proxy during my daytime hours.  It would be night on the other side of the planet, and therefore less traffic?)
Qt Core: yes, as in most vpn protocols the data from/to your pc to/from the office network would be crypted too
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm.
Zen Arado: some of those not too expensive

--BELL--

Zen Arado: might be worth it just to view content that is otherwise forbidden
Qt Core: Bruce, you still have to talk with the proxy, so not so much gain as you add levels of indirections
ElanVitalo:   ponders "transparent," "anonymous," and "elite" proxy types.
Zen Arado: (on a VPN I mean)
Bruce Mowbray: kk, thanks, Qt.
SilasAndrews : I'm off. Thanks, everyone.
Qt Core: in both cases it all depends on which ip results as the asking one when you get to the website you want
Qt Core: bye Silas
Zen Arado: bye Silas
Bruce Mowbray: Do you think the referendum on gay marriage may have passed because ex-patriots from all over the world returned to Ireland for the vote?
Zen Arado: nah doubt that Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: hmmm.
Qt Core: not so many
ElanVitalo : Much is being made of that on our news programs here in America... , the ex-patriot thing, I mean.
Zen Arado: lots of young people voted
ElanVitalo : . Perhaps that's because there are a lot of Irish people in America, you know.
Zen Arado: they are now far from church I think
Bruce Mowbray: yes, that's a good point....
Zen Arado: it's still illegal in the North
Qt Core: today on the radio i heard that church attendance (especially in cities dropped from 90% to 20% in just 2 or 3 decades there
Zen Arado: there is a big debate here atm about a bakery that refused to bake a cake with a 'support gay marriage' slogan on it because the bakers are Christians
Bruce Mowbray: How ironic! . . that the Protestant North would still have gay marriage be illegal, , while the Catholic south would legalize it. Wonders never cease.
Zen Arado: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-31245026.html
ElanVitalo : We have that happening in America all the time, Zen... and those cases of discrimination are later litigated in the courts...
Zen Arado: oh protestant fundamentalists are very hard and inflexible in their beliefs
Bruce Mowbray: Some states are even trying to pass "religious freedom" legislation... so that bakeries don't have to bake such cakes.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, on that note, it's time for me to help my typist scrape up some supper.
Bruce Mowbray: have a good weekend, everyone.
Zen Arado: kk I better go too then
Qt Core: bye Bruce, enjoy
Qt Core: and me too
Qt Core: bye Zen, Elan
Zen Arado: byee Bruce, Elan, Qt
ElanVitalo : Bye for now, Qt and Zen.