2010.09.12 07:00 - Hiding Desires from God

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

Adams Rubble: Good Morning Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Adams.
Adams Rubble: Is that a rocket pack or are you planning a trip?
Bruce Mowbray: I thought it might help me get around in Sl a bit better.
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: how are you?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I'm working through a few challenges - - but, all in all, I'm fine. Thanks
Bruce Mowbray: And you?
Adams Rubble: I am glad you are fine and I hope the challenges go well
Adams Rubble: I am facing some challenges too in RL :)
Adams Rubble: but I am well too
Adams Rubble: I read something interesting this week that might interest you
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Adams. . . I am using a laptop with a very slow video card. . .
Bruce Mowbray: please let me switch to my desktop.
Adams Rubble: I figured you had some lag there
Adams Rubble: OK
Bruce Mowbray: It will take a few minutes, sbut i will be right back. OK?
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: np
Adams Rubble: Hello adoro :)
adoro Rhapsody: hi adams
Adams Rubble: Nice to see you :)
Adams Rubble: Bruce is changing computers
adoro Rhapsody: me too
adoro Rhapsody: i see
adoro Rhapsody: i was watching a home of a friend of bertram
Adams Rubble: Ohhh, in RL?
adoro Rhapsody: that was married in sl
adoro Rhapsody: in sl
Adams Rubble: :)
adoro Rhapsody: looked very nice
adoro Rhapsody: but i think ist nice here too
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: wn Bruce
adoro Rhapsody: hi bruce
Adams Rubble: yes adoro, it is very nice here :)
adoro Rhapsody: r u in NY now ?
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Adams. sorry for that delay.
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, adoro.
Adams Rubble: nice people here
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Bruce Mowbray: nope -- I amin Ohio - but will be in New York next week.
adoro Rhapsody: ok
Adams Rubble: It is raining here...much needed rain
Adams Rubble: nice to here the sound
Bruce Mowbray: we need rain desperately here.
adoro Rhapsody: 6 hours before we made a 90 seconds silence for the ppl who died in Grond zero
Bruce Mowbray: wonderful.
adoro Rhapsody: ground
Bruce Mowbray: That is appropriate -- I am happy to hear that you did that, adoro.
adoro Rhapsody: a dutch man geert Wilders has spoken a speach at ground zero
Bruce Mowbray: I see. Have you ever been there. adoro - and/or Adams?
adoro Rhapsody: a protest against buildingplans for mosk
adoro Rhapsody: no never been there
Adams Rubble: I live fairly close, so yes Bruce

Dutch Settlers in America

Adams Rubble: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! I know, adoro -- Your ancestors!
Adams Rubble: The Dutch settled much of New Jersey too
adoro Rhapsody: so i can see with streetview
adoro Rhapsody: and youtube
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, adoro -- the tiny village closest to my farm is called "New Holland"
adoro Rhapsody: how life is there
adoro Rhapsody: nice
adoro Rhapsody: we have old bands
Bruce Mowbray: Do you have Google Earth, adoro?
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Adams Rubble: The country roads around here mostly have Dutch names
Bruce Mowbray: OK -- then you can see a lot of street views with that too.
adoro Rhapsody: and google streetview
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
adoro Rhapsody: sure
adoro Rhapsody: waiting for google streetview life

Hiding Desires from God

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Adams. . . you mentioned that you were reading something - just before I made my abrupt exit.
Adams Rubble: yes
adoro Rhapsody: with real time cams instead of pictures
Bruce Mowbray: care to say more about that?
Adams Rubble: As you may know I am slowly reading "Clouds of Unknowing: by an anonymous 14c English monk
adoro Rhapsody: interesting
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes -- I read that about thirty years ago.
Bruce Mowbray: please say more.
Adams Rubble: The author said that we should hide our desires from God
Bruce Mowbray: mmmmm.....
adoro Rhapsody: hide ?
Adams Rubble: He did not explain what that means and noted God would be able to see them anyway
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Adams Rubble: but that we should do our best not to show them
Bruce Mowbray: ok.
adoro Rhapsody: ok
Adams Rubble: It is interesting in liht of our discussions about hiding here
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Bruce Mowbray: Yes --- but in our practice, we do NOT hide.
adoro Rhapsody: hiding or be open
adoro Rhapsody: about averything
adoro Rhapsody: everything
Adams Rubble: well we want to dicover all the things we are hiding from ourselves, of course
Adams Rubble: discover
adoro Rhapsody: or hiding behind an avtar ?
adoro Rhapsody: avatar
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Adams Rubble: but it would seem to me that hiding our desires is a way of putting them away
Adams Rubble: hehe adoro
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Adams Rubble: and when we are meditating or praying our desires creep in
adoro Rhapsody: TAO says it high to have no desires
Bruce Mowbray: In the Cloud of Unknowing, as I vaguely recall, the author makes quite a point of "pounding at" or battering at the clouds -- in order to break through them to God.
Adams Rubble: not quite Bruce
Adams Rubble: he is comfortable with the clouds
Bruce Mowbray: His images (or HER images) are interesting - but, I am afraid, quite different from the images I am comfortable with in my own practice.
Adams Rubble: between God and himself
adoro Rhapsody: has it somehing to do with cloud computing ?
Adams Rubble: that if God is knowable, he is not God
Bruce Mowbray: He IS comfortable with the clouds?
Bruce Mowbray: Why, I wonder, am I remembering this so wrongly?
adoro Rhapsody: sorry
Bruce Mowbray: must have something to do with the condition I was in at the time I read that book.
Adams Rubble: I am not siure what cloud computing is adoro :)
adoro Rhapsody: like google g-mail
Bruce Mowbray: cloud computing is like - using Google's applications on the web instead of in your own computer..
Adams Rubble: There is a better translaation available than the old one Bruce
adoro Rhapsody: you can use it its free
Bruce Mowbray: yes, gmail is a good example -
Bruce Mowbray: also word processing and spreadsheets, etc.
Adams Rubble: ahh, Thanks
adoro Rhapsody: sure
adoro Rhapsody: computer software as a service
Bruce Mowbray: OK. Well, adams. . . can you say more about your thoughts regarding the Cloud of Unknowing?
adoro Rhapsody: you can use it and others pay for it by marketing
Adams Rubble is not sure there are any more thoughts at the moment :)
Bruce Mowbray: Is that one of hte RL challenges you mentioned earlier?
Adams Rubble: ohhh, no Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: ok.
Bruce Mowbray: I don't mean to pry.
adoro Rhapsody: TAO says its high to have no knowledge
Adams Rubble: except I don;t have time to read much
--BELL--
adoro Rhapsody: well i ll shut my mouth
Bruce Mowbray: In fact, adoro, the entire Tao te Ching begins with a disclaimer about speech and knowledge:
adoro Rhapsody: a disclaimer ?
Bruce Mowbray: a statement about what CANNOT be written or talked about.
adoro Rhapsody: ok
Adams Rubble: I don't know muuch about Daoism adoro, but please do not take my silence for meaning your comments aren't wwelcome
Bruce Mowbray: our inability to do something.
Bruce Mowbray: Your comments are MOST welcome, adoro!
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: but maybe i interrupt too much your discussion
Adams Rubble: no adoro, it is fine :)
adoro Rhapsody: or bring u on other thoughts
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: thnx
Bruce Mowbray: It's just that we have over-lapping in the chat box -- nothing much we can do about that .
Adams Rubble: with text chat we can have two or three discussions going on at once :)
Bruce Mowbray: yes. . . the over-lapping of discussions is something we're all used to.
adoro Rhapsody: multi chatting
Adams Rubble: yes
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
adoro Rhapsody: ok
Bruce Mowbray: so, please go ahead, adoro - if you wanted to say more about the Tao.
Adams Rubble: then once in a while we all stop to think it over :)
Bruce Mowbray: Stop, drop, and contemplate!
adoro Rhapsody: i hav no more to say at tthis moment
Adams Rubble: :)
adoro Rhapsody: stop till u dropp
Bruce Mowbray wonders if he (Bruce) will EVER have nothing to say
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, adoro -- In our "Time Magic" sessions, one of the things we do is "drop what we have" to BE what we are.
adoro Rhapsody: whats the thing on your back Bruce ?
Bruce Mowbray: That is my jet pack.
adoro Rhapsody: wow
Bruce Mowbray: It helps me fly around in SL.
Adams Rubble: that statement is one fo the early PaB statements
Adams Rubble: hehe, Thanks Bruce
adoro Rhapsody: thnx
Bruce Mowbray: OK. So "drop what you have" is a tradition in PaB. I didn't realize that.
Adams Rubble: Hello Fox :)
Bruce Mowbray: You both look very dashing in your new jetpacks!
Adams Rubble: It has been a long time :)
adoro Rhapsody: hi fox
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Fox.
Fox Monacular: oh, I want one too:)
Bruce Mowbray: OK, Fox. . . just a moment....
Fox Monacular: really? wow!
Fox Monacular: awesome, thanks
Bruce Mowbray: I have to take my own off before I am allowed to give it to anyone else.
Adams Rubble: yes, one of the rules of SL :)
Bruce Mowbray: How are you today, Fox?
Adams Rubble: the fish must have a hard time keeping up or does he have one too?
Bruce Mowbray: he he!
Bruce Mowbray: Blub manages to keep up with me no matter how fast I fly.
Fox Monacular: I'm on vacation:) internet is slow;_)
Adams Rubble: I hope you are having a good vacation :)
adoro Rhapsody: well i go to leave for making dinner
adoro Rhapsody: bye all
Adams Rubble: bye adoro :)
Bruce Mowbray: Have a good dinner, adoro!
adoro Rhapsody: was nice talking to u both
Adams Rubble: you too adoro
Bruce Mowbray: good talking with you too, adoro.
adoro Rhapsody: thnx
Bruce Mowbray: Adoro lives in Amsterdam.
Fox Monacular: sorry, I need to go too:(
Fox Monacular: good to see you
Adams Rubble: bye Fox :)
Bruce Mowbray: OK. Fox. Good to see you again, too.
Adams Rubble: nice to see you too
Bruce Mowbray: Have you read Chapter 5 yet?
Adams Rubble: no, not yet. have you?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes -- three times.
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: would you like to comment?
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps. . .
--BELL--

Presence, Time, Timlessness

Bruce Mowbray: It is a continuation of chapter 4 ---
Bruce Mowbray: a refinement, in a way.
Bruce Mowbray: Pema reviews everything so far . . .
Bruce Mowbray: then comes back to appreciating the PRESENCE...
Bruce Mowbray: ... of the appearance...
Bruce Mowbray: Then steps a mini-step further...
Adams Rubble: I read a little bit
Adams Rubble: during the break
Adams Rubble: yes, I see
Bruce Mowbray: by asking us to appreciate the presence of appearance AS Time.
Adams Rubble: funny typo in there
Adams Rubble: hmmm, did not get that far
Bruce Mowbray: I was actually doing that last week.
Bruce Mowbray: This week I will have a lot of free time.
Adams Rubble: I think of presence as timelessness
Adams Rubble: in that sense, the connector
Bruce Mowbray: so I intend to devote a lot of that time to letting Time do its presenting . . .
Bruce Mowbray: and appreciating that presentation AS Time.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, timelessness is really quite an important part of this, I feel.
Adams Rubble: when I think of timlessness I think of how I am connected to every human being who ever lived or will live
Bruce Mowbray: indeed.
Bruce Mowbray: and connected to everything else, as well.
Bruce Mowbray: no separation.
Adams Rubble: yes, iff we think that far :)
Adams Rubble: the next step
Bruce Mowbray: The practice sort of "thinks ME" - if you get my meaning.
Bruce Mowbray: It sort of takes off by itself.
Bruce Mowbray: I mentioned that last week in my report.
Bruce Mowbray: My intention is only a slight nudging...
Bruce Mowbray: and then the practice seems to "know the way" to go.
Bruce Mowbray: sort of wu wei - like.
Adams Rubble: :)
Bruce Mowbray: (no jet packs required).
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: amazing how when we stop and let things happen, they just do
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Bruce Mowbray: what a relief from not having to be in control.
Adams Rubble: we have to be in the right frame of mind though
Adams Rubble: to get the signal
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
Adams Rubble: or to hear
Adams Rubble: or see

Frames

Bruce Mowbray: The term "frame" is really looming large in my practice right now.
Bruce Mowbray: The first thing that I noticed was disappearing when I began with Chapter 5 was FRAMES.
Adams Rubble: would you say more, I don;t quite understand
Bruce Mowbray: well, this has been on my mind a lot since Friday night...
Bruce Mowbray: when a good friend and I talked about "personal boundaries."
Bruce Mowbray: so I'd been thinking about "boundaries" of all sorts. . . especially emotional boundaries.
Bruce Mowbray: and so this morning, when I did Pema's practice...
Bruce Mowbray: I noticed that frames (boundaries of all sorts) began disappearing.
Adams Rubble: I think I understand but I iuse a different metaphor
Adams Rubble: I think of them as enclosed spaces
Adams Rubble: like boxes
Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza and Aphrodite :)
Bruce Mowbray: ok. So cubical instead of just square or rectangular?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adama, Bruce, Aph....
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph and Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: passing by...
Adams Rubble: they are quite dark and ugly, spearated from the light
Bruce Mowbray: yes. I will be at the meeting in two minutes.
Bruce Mowbray: ok, Adams. . .
Adams Rubble: no not cubical, they can be roundish, like the things in a Bosch painting
Adams Rubble: yes, meeting soon
Bruce Mowbray: nope -- we are talking about boundaries in other areas -- like emotional boundaries or boundaries of thought-categories.
Adams Rubble: but quite ugly :)
Bruce Mowbray: OK. I understand "things in a Bosch" painting. . . (a bit scary there!)
Adams Rubble: wonderful when we can break out into the brightly lit great space
Bruce Mowbray: I shapp very much look forward to reading your report this week, adams.
Bruce Mowbray: shall.
Adams Rubble: oh my
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: I shall be jet packing my way to the Village Hall now.
Adams Rubble: hehe, yes me too
Adams Rubble: the session is over