2010.09.19 07:00 - Anger at the World

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

The session today explored a good bit of anger at the state of the world. There were a few solutions put forth including giving everyone technology and getting rid of money. As I listened I grew somewhat uncomfortable. I couldn't help wonder how the world would look if we just dropped the anger and looked at the world with a different lens, in a loving way.

What really bothers me though was that my gut emotional reaction was annoyance at the anger. Although I could see a more gentle viewpoint might be helpful, I could not find a way to react in a gentle way. Sometimes this guardian gig can seem a bit tricky, can't it. Fortunately I remember that my job is not to steer the conversation or leave things in a good place. It is what it is, and the reader can decide for him- or herself whether abolishing monitary systems might help save the world or even whether there needs to be an argument as to why it would not save the world.

Adams Rubble: Good Morning Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Morning, Adams :)
Eliza Madrigal: I was sort of changing... now I look like a zen fairy
Eliza Madrigal: guess that's appropriate
Adams Rubble: hehe
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, thank you... not sure how this will factor in this get up
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Adams Rubble: I don;t think that will go with your zen fairy outfit :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: well, let's see
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, not bad at all
Eliza Madrigal: hahhaa
Adams Rubble: It is a one day shirt; then it will be obsolete
Adams Rubble: Good morning Bruce :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :) Didn't expect to see you! Are you in NY?
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Adams and Eliza. Still rezzing...
Bruce Mowbray: No -- New York is next weekend.
Eliza Madrigal: Oooh :)

Peace Vigil

Bruce Mowbray: This weekend was the peace vigil in Ohio.
Adams Rubble: That is a worthwhile event :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes -- we display a pair of boots for every Ohioan killed in the iraq War -- now over 200. This is the 4th years we've done the exhibit.
Bruce Mowbray: It's called "Eyes Wide Open"
Eliza Madrigal: taking out of the abstract, nice
Bruce Mowbray: part of a larger exhibit sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee (Quakers).
Adams Rubble wonders how many boots it would take for Iraq and Afghanistan
Bruce Mowbray: 4415 boots for Iraq alone.
Adams Rubble: I was thinking of the Iraqis
Eliza Madrigal: yes, those are figures we don't see very often do we
Bruce Mowbray: estimate of civilian casualties in Iraq vary from 100,000 to 1 million.
Bruce Mowbray: We display hundreds of civilian shoes to represent those.
Adams Rubble: wow, that is a big difference in estimates
Bruce Mowbray: Here's a web site that explains the exhibit: http://afsc.org/campaign/eyes-wide-open
Eliza Madrigal: ty bruce
Adams Rubble: So much death to make up for the original 3000
Eliza Madrigal: kings need things on silver platters :(
Eliza Madrigal: I'd love to make the St. Catherine's exhibit today Adams, am not sure yet at all...
Eliza Madrigal: SL needs TiVo
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Adams Rubble: what is that?
Eliza Madrigal giggles... it is a recorder
Adams Rubble: Ohhh
Eliza Madrigal: like a vcr that programs itself
Adams Rubble: Dubrovna would be twice as stressed I think
Adams Rubble giggles
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: He always does wonderfully, no need for stress :)
Eliza Madrigal: so much information
Adams Rubble: yes, it is a very large amount
Adams Rubble: 1450 years
Adams Rubble: we won;t be doing all of that (hehe)
Adams Rubble: only about 1300
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Much of the additional history is on the notecard in the exhibit
Adams Rubble: so the workshop today will focus on other things
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I see. So people can go through the other at more leisure...
Eliza Madrigal: will be up for a while?
Adams Rubble: not too long...maybe two weeks unless there isso-called "popular demand". hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Adams Rubble: doesn;t seem to be too much of that in SL
Adams Rubble: Hello Lawrence :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lawrence :)
Eliza Madrigal: Do you do 'outside' advertising for the exhibits?
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Lawrence.
Adams Rubble: there is a Facebook page for the workshop and messages go out to Kira, Art History group and the google group
Eliza Madrigal: Ah
Eliza Madrigal: I wondered if there was an 'art network' in SL...
Eliza Madrigal: like there is for the buddhist groups
Adams Rubble: there is but the musum is not yet connected
Eliza Madrigal: where all groups can use one noticer
Eliza Madrigal: Ah
Adams Rubble: that is more of a gallery group
Adams Rubble: not art history
Eliza Madrigal: I see. I would imagine yours is quite a niche
Adams Rubble: well a niche anyway :)
Adams Rubble: little niche
Eliza Madrigal: :) specialization... requiring particular range
Eliza Madrigal: brb... my indoor cat and new outdoor cat are really talking this morning... am curious to see what's going on... whether lizard or... haha
Adams Rubble: St. Catherine Monastery is such special place
Adams Rubble: Hello Bertra :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Bert.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Is that what the shirt was?
Bertram Jacobus: hi everybody and excuse me - i´m here only with half of my awareness ...
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Bert
Bertram Jacobus: distracted a bit - sitting at my ex gf´s house and their parents here visiting ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bert :)
Adams Rubble: whoa, SL just vanisged there for a bit
Adams Rubble: vanished
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to keep the connections, Bert. Which half of your awareness do we have?
Adams Rubble: there I was suddenly sitting in the real world :)
Bertram Jacobus: the one you like eliza :-)
Eliza Madrigal: thank Goodness :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Heaven forbd, Adams ;)
Bertram Jacobus: and where in the first world was that adams ? (!) :-)
Adams Rubble: looking at a computer with Firefox
Bertram Jacobus: interesting, ok ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: As it turned out, when I checked on the cats, they stopped... some quantum thing
Eliza Madrigal: second one tries to measure... there it goes
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: do I have to reclaim the session after crashing?
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't see any indication of that Adams
Bruce Mowbray: No.
Adams Rubble: thanks
Bruce Mowbray: You're all right.
Bruce Mowbray: (unless you changed your email address while you were away).
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble shudders at the thhought of doing it the old way

Why are we here?

Eliza Madrigal: Lawrence, how is your gathering of 'why are we here' insights from PaB, going?
Bruce Mowbray experiences an empathetic shudder.
Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't know...
Lawrence Vyceratops: I guess it depends on everyone else. ;)
Eliza Madrigal: I like the question. Every once in a while it feels like a '9 seconds' kind of question... a chance to take a snapshot
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: In that pause, I felt that I don't really have a 'reason' to be here... more a sense that something positive is activated by attendance and collaborations :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm always hoping that when I attend.
Adams Rubble: What we get put of being here often depends on what we put in
Bertram Jacobus: i like the group, the sharing, the orientations i find here ...
Adams Rubble: can't wait for others to provide the answers
Eliza Madrigal: indeed, which may not be a particular something, in some cases... just presence
Eliza Madrigal: orientations, nice Bert
Lawrence Vyceratops: What are the questions?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Adams
Adams Rubble: Why are we here Lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: Ah.
Adams Rubble: our answer to that is in ourselves not in others
Bertram Jacobus: the community, the ideas, the inspirations, talks - helping each other, so much ... :-)

Lawrence tells us why he is here

Lawrence Vyceratops: I am here because I find it completely absurd that our society and civilization is in the state it is in...
Eliza Madrigal: yes, lately I'm trying to break the 'good student' answers habit
Bertram Jacobus: may be not at least : entertainement ! simply play as being ...
Eliza Madrigal smiles @ Bert
Adams Rubble: there is a Wiki full of testemonials :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: I hope to meet others who also see the sad state of affairs, at the least to just recognize this.
Lawrence Vyceratops: At the most, to work on changing it.
Eliza Madrigal: In some cases the work to change it is simply to stop buying in... ?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Perhaps in some cases, but awareness is important.
Adams Rubble: Hello Riddle :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Riddle
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Riddle.
Eliza Madrigal: awareness seems to me, not buying in...
Riddle Sideways whispers HI EVERYbODY
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Riddle's loud whisper
Lawrence Vyceratops: Not that kind of awareness. Awareness that our civilization is messed up.
Eliza Madrigal: Is there a time when it wasn't Lawrence?
Bertram Jacobus: hi riddle ! ... :-)
Adams Rubble: We CAN't whisper here (giggles)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: I can't say. I've only lived in this time :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertram Jacobus: and eliza : trying to brake the rule of the good students answers habit seems very nice to me ! ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: we can really only do what good our hands find to do in the moment perhaps... maybe that's what adams means with not seeking the answers outside...?
Bertram Jacobus: and lawrence : i think, seeing those difficulties is one step, the next one and nearly more important one to me is - the solutions ...
Bertram Jacobus: hi aph ! ... :-)
Riddle Sideways: Hi Alph
Adams Rubble: Hello Aphrodite :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Aph.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite... love your colorful outfit today
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello all!
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you. It is inended to match my poem
Aphrodite Macbain: intended
Lawrence Vyceratops: I am hoping that with the new photon computers that everyone in the world will become connected and see how inequal and unjust our society is. As soon as everyone becomes aware, there will be great change.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: But we see disasters on television all the time Lawrence
Eliza Madrigal: so you see technology as a kind of equalizer? or a chance to drop distinctions?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, but it is our thinking that is the problem, not just seeing a bad thing.
Aphrodite Macbain: We become used to suffering
Aphrodite Macbain: or the suffering of others
Lawrence Vyceratops: I see technology as an aid to awareness.
Eliza Madrigal: It can be, sure
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, it certainly helps. It is also a means of connecting with a wider community to make change
Riddle Sideways: technology has been helping awareness for some time now
Riddle Sideways: global networks of people now aware
Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't get used to the fact that banana pickers in Honduras suffer. That saddens me deeply almost everyday.
Aphrodite Macbain: telephones.....
Eliza Madrigal: I guess I'm careful about pointing out wrongs a lot, because it seems easy to do... easy to get stuck there... so can we see the wrongs and 'not buy in' not get stuck... long enough for the energy to matter to help...
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Eliza - perhaps better to understand why..
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: rather than pronouncing judgements
Riddle Sideways: the situations and solutions are so much more comples then the 20 sec sound bite
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) indeed!
Riddle Sideways: need to dig deep to see more then one side of situations
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods
Aphrodite Macbain: take time, listen
Adams Rubble: bell
Lawrence Vyceratops: I also don't get used to walking down the sidewalk and seeing a group of students, a minister, and a policeman and knowing that everyone "thinks" some are more human than human. The policeman and the minister as authorities. This is horrible thinking.
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes I agree Lawrence, I see it everyday. The question is, what do you do about it?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Talk to others and point it out.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, and perhaps volunteer to help, give money, find out more
Lawrence Vyceratops: how can one person be more human than the next person, who is human?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, it isn't that I mean to suggest not to point out things... just that pointing alone, without some kind of intuition and timing, seems impotent
Aphrodite Macbain: who says they aren't human? I've never heard anyone SAY someone else was less human
Eliza Madrigal: we're *never* going to have enough informatino
Aphrodite Macbain: Agreed Eliza. We can do more than point a finger
Riddle Sideways: mostly think everybody is the same level human, but some are more helpers to others
Lawrence Vyceratops: Say we are walking down the sidewalk. In front of us a man with millions of dollars in money and assets. Then there is us. And behnd us is a homeless man....
Riddle Sideways: being a helper is more
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, now that's true
Lawrence Vyceratops: ....We are walking by an electronics store....
Bruce Mowbray: Immanuel Kant says that we de-humanize people whenever we treat them as means to an end -- and not as ends in themselves.
Lawrence Vyceratops: ...The man in front can buy everything in the store. Maybe we can buy a TV or not....
Aphrodite Macbain: an age old problem of the world. -inequality of ownershiop.
Lawrence Vyceratops: ....The man behind us can't even buy eggs to cook for dinner....
Adams Rubble: How different when we look at the world with anger and not love
Lawrence Vyceratops: ....This is terrible social inequality.
Aphrodite Macbain: Buddhism would say we are too attached to stuff anyway
Eliza Madrigal: I think it is out of our hand. I think we give a quarter in right timing, and it matters in some way we can never know... and give a million dollars from a wrong motive and cause a lot of damange....
Aphrodite Macbain: we do what we can and pay attention
Bruce Mowbray: Buddhism would also remind us of Equanimity -- one of the 4 Immeasurables.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Without money, we don't have any of these problems
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Bruce
Riddle Sideways: yes, Lawrence
Adams Rubble: are you sure Lawrence :)
Eliza Madrigal: without money it becomes coconuts
Lawrence Vyceratops: Money causes most problems.
Aphrodite Macbain: What lovely wings you have Eliza. They have just rezzed for me. Have they taken you to far off places?
Riddle Sideways: yes, there is always a trade medium
Lawrence Vyceratops: That's still money, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: (not typing but eliza is)
Eliza Madrigal: What becomes the alternative to trade then?
Riddle Sideways: too simple an answer
Lawrence Vyceratops: Free.
Aphrodite Macbain: bunch o commies!! ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: The world doesn't need money anymore.
Bruce Mowbray: or it becomes some other form of combat -- not with money, perhaps, but with arms.
Lawrence Vyceratops: And the world could definitely do away with communism!!
Aphrodite Macbain: money=power
Lawrence Vyceratops: power=ignorance ;)
Riddle Sideways: and power corrupts
Aphrodite Macbain: but much of this is communist theory Lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, no, Aph. You are assuming much.
Eliza Madrigal: I read, somewhere, someone saying that 'communism has never really been tried'... always been co-opted...
Lawrence Vyceratops: I've barely said anything and you are already filling in many gaps with ideas.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Communism uses money.
Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm saying NO money.
Eliza Madrigal: but I have no thoughts about that...
Eliza Madrigal: Oh gee Lawrence, that's like saying no ego
Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
Lawrence Vyceratops: What do we need money for these days?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Our civilization, not us personally.
Eliza Madrigal: 'progress' ?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Why does civilization need money for progress?
Bruce Mowbray: something to put into the cut of the homeless person on the sidewalk.
Bruce Mowbray: cup.
Adams Rubble: :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Bruce..... ;)
Bruce Mowbray: no joking,

Bruce, my smile indicated I liked what you said :)

Eliza Madrigal: yes well something 'else' would have to take its place...
Lawrence Vyceratops: Money can't buy progress.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Why do you say that, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: well ego doesn't just 'go away' does it, just because its irrelevant?
Bertram Jacobus: rl calls - ty for the talks - have a good time all plz ! *wave*
Lawrence Vyceratops: Ego is not the same as money.
Eliza Madrigal: it is a symbol
Eliza Madrigal: metaphor for identity?
Lawrence Vyceratops: But in our world today, we don't really need money.
Aphrodite Macbain: what do you mean Lawrence?
Eliza Madrigal: Okay :) I look forward to continuing this conversation .... interesting ideas
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes. Must go now. Bue
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, think: why does our civilizatoin need money?
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Bruce Mowbray: me too. . . we have many unexplored levels to this question.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Bye, Aph
Riddle Sideways: me too, need to think on this