2013.10.20 01:00 - When One Sees What is Possible

This session was posted from the auto-listener database...

[01:04] Darren Islar: good morning Wol
[01:04] Wol Euler: good morning!
[01:04] Wol Euler: how's life?
[01:05] Darren Islar: going it's way
[01:05] Darren Islar: you're still busy?
[01:06] Wol Euler: mixed :)
[01:06] Wol Euler: we are on half-days at the moment, but there are enough of those
[01:06] Darren Islar: not enough work?
[01:07] Wol Euler: indeed
[01:08] Wol Euler: we're applying for a few competitions
[01:08] Darren Islar: ok
[01:08] Darren Islar: the sector you're in is in a tough place
[01:08] Wol Euler nods.

[01:08] Wol Euler: one of my professors in college said that architecture is a service for people who don't know what they want :)
[01:09] Wol Euler: because if they *did* know, they'd just go out and buy it
[01:09] Darren Islar: heh
[01:09] Wol Euler: this is true-ish insofar as a lot of the early stages is about getting the client to tell you about their needs
[01:10] Wol Euler: and most of the time they really do have no idea what they need
[01:10] Darren Islar: nods
[01:10] Wol Euler: (at least for private clients, though it does apply all over)

[01:10] Wol Euler: either they haven't thought it through (what are the implications of putting a three-car garage on that site you chose?)
[01:11] Wol Euler: or because the needs change when one sees what is possible
[01:11] Darren Islar: yes
[01:11] Darren Islar: a three car garage!!
[01:11] Wol Euler: nobody needed an in-car CD changer until they existed :) then everyone needed them
[01:11] Wol Euler: well, an example :)
[01:11] Darren Islar: nods, I get it :)

[01:12] Wol Euler: but people are really bad at putting together disparate bits of information
[01:12] Wol Euler: I like the sunset, and I want the garage on the west edge of the site. But that would block the sunset. Oh.
[01:12] Darren Islar: grins

[01:13] Darren Islar: adn I want coffee ... brb. :)
[01:13] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:13] Darren Islar: adn I do know where to get it :)
[01:14] Wol Euler: hehehe
[01:15] Wol Euler: so you don't need an asrchitect
[01:16] Darren Islar: nope :)
[01:16] Darren Islar: fraid I don't have money to pay you
[01:17] Wol Euler: well, we don't work for free (except competitions, and that is different)
[01:17] Darren Islar: damn!
[01:17] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:18] Wol Euler: fortunately people generally don't expect that of us, unlike many other professions
[01:19] Darren Islar: true
[01:20] Darren Islar: you pay teh dentist as well, even when it's not fixed ... it's weird actually
[01:20] Wol Euler: mmhmm
[01:21] Wol Euler: people are strange :)
[01:21] Wol Euler: illogical
[01:21] Wol Euler: and driven by greed often
[01:21] Wol Euler: I could save a dollar? what could be wrong with that?
[01:21] Darren Islar: yeah
[01:22] Darren Islar: especially the ones that can afford it ... well, old money that is
[01:22] Wol Euler nods.
[01:23] Wol Euler: I had a woman ask me to call her back because "it's too expensive for me to call your cellphone". First, I know for a fact that she earns far more than I do. And secondly, what she wanted was free computer advice.
[01:23] Wol Euler: So I should pay for giving her free advice.
[01:23] Wol Euler shakes her head.
[01:23] Darren Islar: grrrrrr
[01:23] Wol Euler: she saw nothing at all wrong with that.
[01:24] Darren Islar: free advice with free connection ... geez
[01:24] Darren Islar: they normally don't
[01:24] Wol Euler nods.
[01:24] Darren Islar: it's why they can be that excentrick
[01:24] Wol Euler: anyway :) I didn't come here to complain :)
[01:25] Darren Islar: heh

[01:25] Darren Islar: any nice subject?
[01:25] Wol Euler: the change of season?
[01:25] Wol Euler: hello qt
[01:25] Darren Islar: hmmmm, the light is really beautiful these days, most people like summer best, but summer is too harsh on me
[01:26] Qt Core: Hi Wol, Leaping
[01:26] Darren Islar: hey QT
[01:27] Wol Euler nods.
[01:27] Wol Euler: I like all the seasons, but this is my favourite
[01:27] Wol Euler: Autumn always feels like the start of a new year, perhaps that's just a hang-over from school and college
[01:28] Darren Islar: ah yes ... no I don't feel that, it's when things soften out again for me
[01:28] Wol Euler: ah :)
[01:28] Wol Euler: nice description
[01:28] Qt Core: i think it predates agricolture,
[01:28] Wol Euler nods.
[01:28] Darren Islar: looks up predate
[01:29] Qt Core: (hoping i have used it right ;-) )
[01:29] Darren Islar: ah yes, I understand
[01:29] Darren Islar: yeah pre-dates

[01:32] Darren Islar: I've always liked winter best, but something seems to change there
[01:33] Darren Islar: maybe it's time for me to come out of the winter
[01:33] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:36] Wol Euler grins and winks at LP.
[01:37] Wol Euler: so, qt, how is Italy these days? I hear Berlusconi has had his wrist slapped again
[01:37] Darren Islar: smiles at Wol
[01:37] Darren Islar: oh?
[01:38] Qt Core: now we heve to get ready for the wounded beast revenge
[01:38] Darren Islar: what happened this time
[01:38] Wol Euler nods.

[01:38] Wol Euler: they've barred him from political office for two years as a consequence of -- what was it exactly, the tax evasion?
[01:39] Darren Islar: ah ... that's confirmed now, okay
[01:39] Darren Islar: yeah, a conviction of fraude
[01:39] Qt Core: thay recalculated the time he will not be able to hold public offices for having beed declared guilty (first time ever in a definitive way)
[01:40] Darren Islar: first time ever suits the man I guess
[01:40] Qt Core: the conviction is definitive, but he has still one grade of appeal for the "suspended time"
[01:40] Darren Islar: of course
[01:40] Wol Euler: plus the ability to change the law retrospectively (again)
[01:41] Darren Islar: hmmm, he's not in power anymore
[01:41] Qt Core: then there is the separate matter the senate is debating: should he stay as a senator ?
[01:41] Darren Islar: wasn't he kicked out?
[01:42] Qt Core: no, not yet, a commission debted it, just put out a report about it now the senate has to vote (they are arguing about secret/public vote)
[01:42] Darren Islar: okay

[01:43] Darren Islar: he seems to have lost his claws though, now his party didn't back him up
[01:45] Qt Core: it is slpit , buty mostly on the political issues, on the judiciary ones they still are united
[01:45] Darren Islar: hmmm
[01:47] Qt Core: but the poll s still say his party fights for the first place...
[01:49] Darren Islar: sighs
[01:51] Wol Euler nods.
[01:52] Wol Euler: I'm inclined to think that secret votes are incompatible with democracy.
[01:53] Qt Core: his main objective now is deferring the application of the sentence to after the next year european election to be able to do some campaign
[01:53] Darren Islar: I disagree since public voting might make people vote something different than they actually want
[01:53] Wol Euler: oh no, I mean the Senate voting on his expulsion
[01:53] Qt Core: the idea is that secret vote make the voter more free
[01:53] Wol Euler: elections must be secret
[01:53] Wol Euler: ah, I see
[01:53] Wol Euler: yes, that goes both ways
[01:54] Darren Islar: yes, even then, but I know he just tries to use the system in any way to get his way .. that's not the system's fault
[01:54] Wol Euler: secrecy would allow the senators to vote against him without fear of reprisal
[01:54] Wol Euler: I hadn't thought of that
[01:54] Darren Islar: or in favor of him
[01:54] Wol Euler: different reprisal :)
[01:55] Darren Islar: nods :)
[01:55] Qt Core: and even make others senator sell their vote to him without reprisal ;-)
[01:55] Darren Islar: exactly .. suits a country with that high of a percentage of corruption (sorry QT)
[01:56] Qt Core: ha has another process in the first stages where he is accused (by some MP) of having literally bought votes against the cabinet lead by Romano Prodi
[01:56] Qt Core: np leaping
[01:57] Darren Islar: I'm not surprised

[01:57] Darren Islar: I guess you either love him or hate him .... but the rest of the world doesn't understand
[01:58] Wol Euler nods.
[01:58] Wol Euler: I think what puzzles us is where the up-side of Berlusconi lies
[01:59] Wol Euler: people put up with things that are bad now (like going to the dentist) to acquire future goodness (like sound teeth)

[01:59] Qt Core: on a funny side i love to see a few friends of mine that are absolutely against him but still life long supporter of Milan FC ... it blows their minds ;-)
[01:59] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:59] Darren Islar: heh
[02:01] Qt Core: i think that it is mostly in "i want to have his power/money" and his original hidden promise was that he would make it possible to common people
[02:02] Darren Islar: nods
[02:02] Darren Islar: I see what you mean
[02:02] Darren Islar: except the man is not capable to sharing
[02:02] Qt Core: or even people wanting to do bad things using him as a justification
[02:02] Wol Euler sighs.
[02:02] Wol Euler: and as in america, people believed it
[02:03] Darren Islar: ah yes, that makes sense
[02:03] Wol Euler: "vote for me and I will make you too a multi-billionaire." How can that possibly work?
[02:03] Darren Islar: doesn't he has ties with the mob?
[02:03] Qt Core: another things under debate/judgment
[02:03] Darren Islar: yeah, you wonder how people can believe that
[02:05] Qt Core: there is this famous things about one of his stableman being the son of a high ranking mafia man (or something like that)
[02:05] Darren Islar: in that respect what happens in the states is either not understood by the rest of the world
[02:05] Darren Islar: a teaparty holding the whole nation in their grips
[02:06] Qt Core: that is insulting ;-)
[02:06] Qt Core: aside a couple crazy ones they aren't so extremist
[02:07] Wol Euler nods.
[02:07] Wol Euler: but the crazy extremists have the power, and the others let them have it
[02:07] Darren Islar: insulting in what way QT
[02:08] Qt Core: i was joling, the teaparty ones are really crazy (at least as seen from this side of the pond)
[02:08] Darren Islar: nods
[02:08] Darren Islar: adn quite right Wol
[02:10] Qt Core: the teaparty may be more related to Lega Nord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lega_Nord) in the italian politic system
[02:10] Darren Islar: nods
[02:10] Qt Core: (often allied to Berlusconi)
[02:10] Darren Islar: it's the problem of a nation that only exists of two parties
[02:10] Darren Islar: the teaparty should be a seperate one
[02:11] Darren Islar: hmmm, of course
[02:11] Qt Core: but then they would have almost no power
[02:12] Qt Core: crazy but not stupid
[02:12] Darren Islar: exactly
[02:12] Wol Euler nods.
[02:12] Darren Islar: grins ... true

[02:12] Wol Euler: and the sane Republicans don't have the courage to save their party by expelling the insane ones
[02:12] Darren Islar: as teh republicans will not let them go, since it will deminish their party as well
[02:13] Wol Euler: if business does abandon the GOP, as the media suggest they are, then they will *have* to make changes to save themselves
[02:13] Darren Islar: yes
[02:13] Darren Islar: let's hope so, normally those processes have a way of dragging themselves on
[02:14] Wol Euler nods.
[02:14] Wol Euler: anyway
[02:14] Darren Islar: it's time
[02:16] Wol Euler: it's a nice day out, I should go for a walk before the guardian meeting
[02:16] Darren Islar: gets up, having things to do ... it was great to see you both
[02:17] Wol Euler: likewise! take care
[02:17] Darren Islar: take care
[02:17] Qt Core: ok, and try to have some fun!
[02:18] Qt Core: better stop reading that wiki page, make me angry ;-)
[02:19] Wol Euler: heheheheh
[02:19] Wol Euler: yes, qt, don't get too excited :)
[02:19] Wol Euler: enjoy the day
[02:19] Qt Core: i'll try, you too