2015.07.06 13:00 - There it is. Expanding our senses.

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Fire and smoke

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: HI!
Bruce Mowbray: How's the smoky gal?
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: still smoky
Bruce Mowbray: hmmm, sorry to hear that.
Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting light effects!
Aphrodite Macbain: but many acres of forest lost :-(
Bruce Mowbray: Your photos on FB were quite dramatic.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, sad, indeed.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods- it was a shock. So many people have had to move and leave their homes
Bruce Mowbray: As of today there are 300 wildfires burning in Alaska, too.
Aphrodite Macbain: really?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, very sad.
Aphrodite Macbain: oh dear
Bruce Mowbray: I can't imagine where I'd go!
Aphrodite Macbain: Many friends would take you
Aphrodite Macbain: But you would hate it
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: But would I take my friends? ha ha, I doubt it.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I would most likely hate it.
Bruce Mowbray: Qt!
Aphrodite Macbain: Of course you would
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Qt
Aphrodite Macbain: You always have :-)
Qt Core: Ops, hii Aph, Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: we're talking about all the wildfires
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, many wildfires in America and Canada -- mostly due to the extremely dry conditions on the West Coast.
Aphrodite Macbain: we've had no rain for a month
Bruce Mowbray: and California is even worse than that!
Aphrodite Macbain: eerie
Qt Core: the season is not started yet here in Italy, it most hit the southern regions, Sicily and Sardinia
Bruce Mowbray: in Ohio we've had so much rain that there are flood warnings out along all the major rivers.
Aphrodite Macbain: California is so dependent on water
Aphrodite Macbain: which season Qt? Summer?

Qt Core: the wildfire one
Bruce Mowbray: we had 19 straight days of rain . . . and it will rain again tonight and for the next five days.
Aphrodite Macbain: send me some, ok?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bruce Mowbray: kk, will do, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: there are wildfires in Italy?
Qt Core: does California have desalinization plants to use some seawater ?
Bruce Mowbray: I understand that some cities are trying to build them...
Bruce Mowbray: San Diego, for instance.
Qt Core: yes, many man-made
Aphrodite Macbain: they are very expensive I gather
Aphrodite Macbain: and use up a lot of energy
Qt Core: yes, but using solar and tides...
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Bruce Mowbray: they could employ solar energy and tidal forces.... if the people decided to do that.
Bruce Mowbray: snap.
Aphrodite Macbain: snap!
Qt Core: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: Great minds think alike, no?
Qt Core: ;-)

Aphrodite Macbain: druth told me about some process where they encourage condensation - collecting it on large sheets as the wind blows through them
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I've heard of that...
 

New senses for a new world?

Bruce Mowbray: so what is this about developing new senses, Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain gives Qt a notecard
Aphrodite Macbain: I thought it might be fun to let our imaginations run wild today...
Qt Core: i was watching the video, but ted seems to not love me tonight, it stops at around 11 minutes, (after having shown that jacket) (referring to the TED talk about  developing new senses)
Aphrodite Macbain: Yayy- Hi druth
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, druth!
druth Vlodovic: hey all

Bruce Mowbray: Was your original question in the email something about what we expect from experience ---- or perhaps wish to have from experience?
Aphrodite Macbain: It was about what we wish to experience that we are not equipped to experience now
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh!
Aphrodite Macbain: we have a very narrow range of senses that allow us to learn about the larger world
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: yes, and we're not even using those very well!
Aphrodite Macbain: have a look at the video later
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles- true
Bruce Mowbray: I shall watch the video later, thank you.
Bruce Mowbray: I've been thinking about your question all day, actually.
Qt Core: i remembered an article about a "real" sixth sense, a sense of direction/gps navigation: http://www.blindcanadians.ca/publica...sense-impaired
Bruce Mowbray: I think what I would wish from my experience in the world is reciprocity....
Aphrodite Macbain: There are animals and insects that use other senses to communicate/learn about the world
Aphrodite Macbain: Like bees, and fish
Bruce Mowbray: yes, it seems that every creature has its own way of experiencing....
Aphrodite Macbain: I often wonder what other colours are out there that I can't see simply because I'm not designed to see them.
druth Vlodovic: the colour of a cell phone call
Aphrodite Macbain: lol or tastes or smells
Aphrodite Macbain: what is the colour of a cell phone call?
Bruce Mowbray: ?
Bruce Mowbray: what is the color of Tuesday?
Bruce Mowbray: or Monday, for that matter?
Aphrodite Macbain: grins
Bruce Mowbray: how about echolocation?
Bruce Mowbray: may be the GPS for blind folks is something similar to that....
Aphrodite Macbain: yes!
druth Vlodovic: I had a developed sense of time once, my wrist would ache when I had a appointment etc

Bruce Mowbray: that's remarkable, druth -- but also quite believable.
Aphrodite Macbain: they say our brains can translate senses.
Aphrodite Macbain: over time
Bruce Mowbray: what the satellites are for triangulation in the GPS system would be analogous to the walls of caves for bats... something to bounce signals off of.
Aphrodite Macbain: but they use something other than sonar, right?
druth Vlodovic: translate senses?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- you'd have to see the video....
Bruce Mowbray: bats use a clicking sound.... and other animals do as well, I understand....
Aphrodite Macbain: a blind man can learn to "see" via another sense
Bruce Mowbray: it operates like sonar, yes.
druth Vlodovic: I have heard of blind humans navigating by echolocation as well
Aphrodite Macbain: they receive stimulation from a transmitter.
Bruce Mowbray: nods, so have I, druth.
Aphrodite Macbain: and after a while they recognize the patterns and begin to "see" things they couldn't see before.
Qt Core: natural echolocation for blinds (at least one): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IKT2akh0Ng
Aphrodite Macbain: It's extraordinary
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Qt
druth Vlodovic: the mind can output sensations to your nervous system, a bit like memory recall, but in real time
Zen Arado: Hi all
Bruce Mowbray: Wow, that's amazing, QT. thanks for the link.
druth Vlodovic: hey zen
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Zen!
Aphrodite Macbain: I would like to develop my sense of smell so I could recognize a friend from miles away- like a dog can
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Aphrodite Macbain: or know where they have been
Bruce Mowbray: so if I may generalize a bit, what we're talking about is reciprocity from our worlds, right?
druth Vlodovic: would you be willing to spend a minute closely and intensely sniffing your friend to "get their scent"?
Aphrodite Macbain: we are exploring the notion of expanding or adding to our senses to perceive more of the world Zen
druth Vlodovic: a lot of an animal's ability is from them learning how to use their natural abilities
druth Vlodovic: no reason, for instance, that I can't echolocate, other than I have never tried to learn
Aphrodite Macbain: being a bit imaginative
Bruce Mowbray: good point, druth.
Zen Arado: thanks Aph..have watched half the video
Aphrodite Macbain: you mean we could if we tried harder to learn how druth?
druth Vlodovic: apparently
Aphrodite Macbain: practice makes perfect
Qt Core: we probably can't get motivated enough if we could just open our eyes to go back to sight
druth Vlodovic: that makes two Zen :P maybe we can get the discussion on track
Aphrodite Macbain: there is new technology that transmit signals to a person's body that can help them see or hear
Bruce Mowbray: one of the themes that used to be common in Play as Being circles was " Allow yourself to be seen" -- which I interpreted as a sort of reciprocity, a sort of way of being in the world via how the world sees me.
druth Vlodovic: exposing yourself to the world deliberately, a way of sensitizing yourself?
Bruce Mowbray: have you ever gone into an art museum and considered that the paintings were watching you?
Aphrodite Macbain: um...no
Bruce Mowbray: well try it sometime!
Aphrodite Macbain: especially the abstract ones :-)
druth Vlodovic: "what would this painting think of me?"
Bruce Mowbray: in many portraits, you are being stared at.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah those..."they follow you round the room"
Bruce Mowbray: how do the worlds senses perceive you?
Zen Arado: we don't even see what's there with our limited range
druth Vlodovic: sculptures are often staring straight ahead or looking up
Zen Arado: thinking too much
Aphrodite Macbain: you've lost me Bruce...
Zen Arado: maybe we should optimize that first?
Aphrodite Macbain: exactly Zen
Bruce Mowbray: no, Zen -- not at all. In fact that's something that we talked about before you arrived.
Bruce Mowbray: however I lost you, Aph?
Bruce Mowbray: I'm simply reversing the subject and object...
Bruce Mowbray: instead of your seeing the world, I'm calling attention to the fact that the world also sees you.
Aphrodite Macbain: "how do the world's senses perceive you?"
Bruce Mowbray: it's a way of getting outside of ourselves.
Qt Core: that reminds me a little too much of peer pressure and the risk of follow the tide as "everybody does/has/thinks it"
druth Vlodovic: an imaginative method of developing empathy for the objects around you
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you mean the "world" of people or the world of inanimate objects Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: I mostly mean the world of living objects -- only a few of whom happen to be human.
Aphrodite Macbain: empathy for inanimate objects?
Zen Arado: like pets?
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Bruce Mowbray: I'm talking about a living reciprocity.
Bruce Mowbray: pets, for sure.
Aphrodite Macbain: not oil on canvas?
Bruce Mowbray: but also trees, birds, sky, rivers... yes and even oil on canvas.
druth Vlodovic: to me an "object" in philosophical terms can be a person, thing, event sequence, place etc
Bruce Mowbray: me too, druth.
Aphrodite Macbain: Why would we want to do that Bruce?
Zen Arado: another thing that occurs to me is that our brains evolved over a long period of time and adapted to the inputs we have: not so sure it is like a computer that accepts new inputs easily
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: where will we go in the future I wonder?
Aphrodite Macbain: what new senses will be developed?
druth Vlodovic: placing oneself in the world, the way they talk about placing oneself in a painting or story
Zen Arado: Like trans-humanism
Qt Core: good taste for taking selfies ?
Aphrodite Macbain: lol talking selfies??
Zen Arado: you need to bruch up your typonese Aph :)
Aphrodite Macbain: lol maybe that's a new sense I need to develop
Bruce Mowbray: as I've grown older, I've noticed that my ability to make switches in focus from one thing to another has slowed down considerably...
Aphrodite Macbain: visual switches Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: it could be visual, but mostly I think it's just mental.
druth Vlodovic: I think as we age we become naturally (though not necessarily) more internal
Bruce Mowbray: on talking about attention.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: focus
Aphrodite Macbain: I think it's easier for me to focus now
Aphrodite Macbain: when I was younger there were so many competing ideas
Aphrodite Macbain: internal?
Zen Arado: only thing I notice is that I am getting more forgetful
Bruce Mowbray: I also think we have a natural tendency to project ourselves onto the world --- we see faces in stones, knot holes, and clouds --- we see bodies in inanimate forms of all sorts...
druth Vlodovic: sourced I mean, a very young child just does things, which often causes trouble when they are asked to nail down "why did you do that?"
Zen Arado: maybe our ability to notice our slowing down is impaired too
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Zen Arado: that's a survival thing Bruce maybe, looking for hidden dangers
Aphrodite Macbain: If we think of the mind as a 6th sense, I think we are developing and changing it quite rapidly compared to our other senses
Bruce Mowbray: I think Zen has put his finger on my problem . . . forgetfulness: if I am distracted by something, I can quickly lose my focus on the thing I was previously occupied by - and that is a form of forgetting, right?
Zen Arado: my concentration is good though

Aphrodite Macbain: It's like a muscle
Aphrodite Macbain: - yes Bruce since I think we remember more when we pay attention
Aphrodite Macbain: become more mindful
Zen Arado: I am on a music forum and the young guys were complaining of not being able to stop thinking and concentrate on the music they were making
Bruce Mowbray: what does that word mean, Aph? "Mindful" "more Mindful"?
Aphrodite Macbain: paying attention to what is going on in the present.
Bruce Mowbray: everything is going on in the present!
Aphrodite Macbain: and not thinking about something else in another time or place
Aphrodite Macbain: but sometimes we don't see it Bruce. We are so busy worrying about the past or the future
druth Vlodovic: there is also the complexity between pattern recognition and plain seeing
Zen Arado: I think years of study helped me with concentration
Zen Arado: and meditation of course
Bruce Mowbray: doesn't that put emphasis on separation, though?
Aphrodite Macbain: on the contrary, Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: I think we become more connected when we are fully present
druth Vlodovic: a problem in math class Zen, the mind wanders and looks, then starts filling itself with what interests it most
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Zen Arado: true druth
Zen Arado: I can work at what I like now
Zen Arado: makes all the difference if you are interested
Aphrodite Macbain: that for me is the purpose of the 90 sec pause
Aphrodite Macbain: to come back to the present
Aphrodite Macbain: the awareness of the present

Aphrodite Macbain: Isn't that what Mr Tolle is talking about?
Bruce Mowbray: well, once again, the reason I started off with a theme of "reciprocity" was to point out that the connections happen from both directions.
Bruce Mowbray: both subject to object and object to subject...

Zen Arado: Hi Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu.
Bleu Oleander: hiya :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Bleu
Aphrodite Macbain: Bleu, we started talking about our senses and what we would like to expand and are also talking about looking at ourselves from the outside
Arisia Vita: greetings all
Bruce Mowbray: Ari!
Zen Arado: Hi Ari
Aphrodite Macbain: Ari! Hi
Bleu Oleander: hi Ari :)
Bruce Mowbray: how you doing, Navi dude!
Arisia Vita: great, and you?
Bruce Mowbray: excellent, thanks.
Bleu Oleander: great TED talk you sent Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Good to see you
Aphrodite Macbain: did you have any thoughts on it Bleu?

Bleu Oleander: found it very inspiring
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bleu Oleander: I'm a big fan of Eagleman's stuff :)
Qt Core: and what about the Na'vi senses, mostly that mind melding one we saw in Avatar?
Aphrodite Macbain: I thought it was an opportunity to be imaginative
Zen Arado: me too
Bruce Mowbray: "I see you."
Arisia Vita: I see you
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I want an improved visual sense and an ability to see more colours...
Bleu Oleander: a friend of ours is working on that :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I'd like to develop my 6th sense
Bruce Mowbray: Does Aph want to see grue and bleen?
Aphrodite Macbain: oh Bleu?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: !!
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: but perhaps another primary colour!
Bleu Oleander: this research is moving pretty fast
Aphrodite Macbain: oh? which- the visual?
Bleu Oleander: hard to keep up with everything!
Bleu Oleander: all of it
Bleu Oleander: but yes visual
Zen Arado: would you like to have the sense of smell of a dog?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes - if it allows me to connect better with others
Bleu Oleander: btw, Xiri has made some good changes already on her pavilion ... love the addition of water sound :)
Zen Arado: problem is we don't know what it would be like
Aphrodite Macbain turns up her sound
Aphrodite Macbain: nice :-)
Bleu Oleander: we will adjust ...
Aphrodite Macbain: sound is important.
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: better hearing would be great
Aphrodite Macbain: I would like to hear more high pitched sounds
Zen Arado: yep
Aphrodite Macbain: deeper sounds would give me a headache. :-)
Zen Arado: though our noisy environment might be annoying
Bleu Oleander: the ability to "feel" with more powerful sensors ...
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- but our brains are good at selecting out what we need
QCore: being able to shift higher or lower the window of EM spectrum we see would be nice

druth Vlodovic: you can wear IR and they probably have devices to do that qt

Aphrodite Macbain: feel? Blue?
Bleu Oleander: like Eagleman was saying
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bleu Oleander: he "felt" the audiences' responses
Bruce Mowbray: aren't there drugs that enable these enhancements? isn't LSD one of them?
Aphrodite Macbain: what is EM Qt?
Qt Core: electromagnetic
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Bruce Mowbray: electromagnetism.
druth Vlodovic: including visual light
Zen Arado: maybe they are doing that already..a native American was reputed to be able to hear a whimper in another field a long way away
Qt Core: i'm thinking about more than a new color
Zen Arado: our senses have been dulled by civilisation
Zen Arado: maybe that is protective?
Bruce Mowbray: agreed, Zen.
druth Vlodovic: bodies adapt to enhance what is used and discard what isn't
Bleu Oleander: I'm not sure that's true ... perhaps our senses have learned to see and hear in new ways
Aphrodite Macbain: too many things to sense already Zen?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Zen Arado: something like that Aph
Bruce Mowbray: after being in the big city for several days, it is simply delicious to return to the silence of the farm . . and to hear that silence as if for the first time.
druth Vlodovic: I bet we'd be pretty surprised by the lack of certain abilities displayed by our ancestors, just because they didn't develop them
Aphrodite Macbain: "as if for the first time" - that is key Bruce...
Zen Arado: maybe our senses balance out optimally?
Bruce Mowbray: yes, there is.
Aphrodite Macbain: I think. A fresh new sound/colour/smell/taste
Bruce Mowbray: *there it is*
Zen Arado: we couldn't bear exaggerated senses?
Aphrodite Macbain looks around
Bruce Mowbray: Aph (aphrodite.macbain): "as if for the first time" - that is key Bruce...
Bruce Mowbray: --- there it is.
Zen Arado: but that is a brain thing
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: always
Zen Arado: how it interprets the input
Bruce Mowbray: not for me, it isn't.
Bruce Mowbray: It's simply hearing and enjoying.
Aphrodite Macbain: the brain runs everything
druth Vlodovic: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ce-our-senses/
Zen Arado: need a fresh brain
Aphrodite Macbain: wow. thanks druth
Zen Arado: what was it Proust said?
Aphrodite Macbain takes hers out and puts it in the bathtub, washes it and reinserts
Zen Arado: about not needing to go to new places but see things freshly?
Bruce Mowbray: @ Aph... Proust -- someone with a knack for living in the past.
Zen Arado: hah yes
Aphrodite Macbain: to come back to a familiar place for the first time
Bruce Mowbray: I love to revisit the old haunts . . . again and again.
Zen Arado: but the brain does that not the eyes
Aphrodite Macbain: was that Proust?
Zen Arado: eyes see the same thing
Bleu Oleander: never did think Madeleines were so great lol
Aphrodite Macbain: because we are looking at it with a different brain
Aphrodite Macbain: lol  Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: I think you might be referring to T.S. Eliot --- in the Four Quartets, he talks about returning to where we began and seeing it for the first time.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Bruce
Arisia Vita:

We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. - T.S. Eliot

Bruce Mowbray: There it is!
Bleu Oleander: bye all ... gotta a mtg
Bruce Mowbray: ty, Ari.
Qt Core: i need to leave a little early, bye all
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Bleu.
Arisia Vita: one of my fav quotes
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Qt.
druth Vlodovic: it is funny to revisit a small town and friends living there after a long absence
druth Vlodovic: you start pointing out changes and they keep going "really? I guess I hadn't noticed."
Zen Arado:

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. Marcel Proust

Arisia Vita: bye Qt
Arisia Vita: thank you Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: ah thanks Zen
Zen Arado: bye Qt
Bruce Mowbray: ahh, TY, Zen.
Aphrodite Macbain: Proust and Eliot had the same idea expressed differently
Qt Core: btw, speaking of brain implant i want a wifi direct connection to wikipedia servers ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Qt Core: that said bye all
Zen Arado: heheh
Zen Arado: bye Qt
Aphrodite Macbain: it would have to be updated regularly Qt
Aphrodite Macbain: bye Qt
druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure I'd want to be wired in
druth Vlodovic: popups would be a bear
Zen Arado: a new Wiki sense
Bruce Mowbray: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: you would have to be able to unplug
Bruce Mowbray: or else get an ad blocker.
Aphrodite Macbain: or everyone would be a know-it-all
Aphrodite Macbain: how boring that would be
Zen Arado: no need for know it alls
Zen Arado: :)
Bruce Mowbray: so these implants -- wouldn't that be a sort of trans-humanism?
Zen Arado: yes I think it is verging on trans-humanism
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: depends--maybe some animal implants too?
Aphrodite Macbain: I have to go to the same meeting as Bleu
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you everyone
Bruce Mowbray: kk, bye for now, good people.
Arisia Vita: bye for a bit
Aphrodite Macbain: Good bye
Zen Arado: bye everyone
Arisia Vita: great being with you
druth Vlodovic: have fun guys
druth Vlodovic: gtsy again ari