2010.09.15 07:00 - Transhumanism

[7:01]  Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Bleu.

[7:02]  Bleu Oleander: hi Bruce .... how are you?

[7:02]  Bruce Mowbray: I'm a bit slow this morning --

[7:02]  Bleu Oleander: beautiful day in sl

[7:02]  Bruce Mowbray: otherwise fine -- working on my second cup of coffee.

[7:02]  Bruce Mowbray: and you?

[7:02]  Bleu Oleander: just making my first cup

[7:03]  Bruce Mowbray: none

[7:03]  Bleu Oleander: hi Arch

[7:03]  Bruce Mowbray: Hood morning, Arch.

[7:03]  Bruce Mowbray: Good.... morning,(sorry).

[7:03]  Bruce Mowbray: fingers not yet awake.

[7:03]  Bleu Oleander: :)

[7:03]  Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Bleu

[7:04]  Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Bruce

[7:04]  Bleu Oleander: how are you Arch?

[7:04]  Archmage Atlantis: Hi, BBlub

[7:04]  Bruce Mowbray: Blub emits a welcoming bubble to Arch.

[7:04]  Archmage Atlantis: :))

[7:05]  Bruce Mowbray: ... and another bubble to Koya.

[7:05]  Archmage Atlantis: :)

[7:06]  Archmage Atlantis: Has a topic come up yet?

[7:06]  Bruce Mowbray: Nope -- I arrived just before you did, Arch.

[7:06]  Archmage Atlantis: Ok

[7:07]  Bleu Oleander: what topic would you like?

[7:07]  Bleu Oleander: has your 9 sec practice evolved since your time at PaB?

[7:08]  Archmage Atlantis: I've been reading a lot on transhumanism on the various web sites and in the group on SL

[7:08]  Bleu Oleander: what do you think about that Arch?

[7:09]  Archmage Atlantis: No, Bleu, but that's a good reminder to do that as I read. Ty Bleu.

[7:09]  Bruce Mowbray is fascinated by the term "transhumanism". . . but does not have a working meaning for that word.

[7:10]  Archmage Atlantis: Well, the idea is realated to what brought me back to SL in the first place last year.

[7:11]  Archmage Atlantis: I was thinking, now I am disabled, and can't get out much.......what can I do that would have meaning

 

[7:11]  Bleu Oleander: Transhumanism is an international intellectual and cultural movement supporting the use of science and technology to improve human mental and physical characteristics and capacities. The movement regards aspects of the human condition, such as disability, suffering, disease, aging, and involuntary death as unnecessary and undesirable. Transhumanists look to biotechnologies and other emerging technologies for these purposes. Dangers, as well as benefits, are also of concern to the transhumanist movement.

[7:11]  Bleu Oleander: from wikipedia

 

[7:12]  Archmage Atlantis: An, not having kids, I thought, what could I do to contribute to the future

[7:12]  Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Bleu. [continues to listen intently to Arch.]

[7:12]  Archmage Atlantis: My earlier readings were on evolutionary psychology

[7:13]  Bleu Oleander: good book: Radical Evolution by Joel Garreau

[7:13]  Aphrodite Macbain is Online

[7:13]  Archmage Atlantis: Transhumanism seemed the closest to what I might do

[7:13]  Bleu Oleander: we had him speak with our group recently

[7:14]  Archmage Atlantis: Which group Bleu?

[7:14]  Bleu Oleander: on what it means to be human

[7:14]  Bleu Oleander: my local salon group in rl

[7:14]  Bleu Oleander: should try to get him in sl

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[7:16]  Archmage Atlantis: Yes , that was not part of my career, but it has always been a subject of personal study, what it means to be human.....read lots of books on religion, philosophy, psychology, self-help, scientific findings about how the mind functions

[7:17]  Archmage Atlantis: I will note that on my reading list, ty

[7:17]  Bleu Oleander: :)

[7:17]  Archmage Atlantis: Bleu, how would you personally summarize what he had to say?

[7:17]  Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/Radical-Evolut...4560174&sr=8-1

[7:18]  Bleu Oleander: he talks about transhumanism issues

[7:18]  Bleu Oleander: and how far we should go

[7:19]  Bleu Oleander: he thinks these enhancements will become part of our lives

[7:19]  Bleu Oleander: the ethics issues

[7:20]  Bleu Oleander: will the unrestrained technology bring us to the ultimate destruction?

[7:20]  Archmage Atlantis: ty for the link, Bruce......yes, the ethics issues are of special interest to me

[7:20]  Archmage Atlantis: Pls continue, Bleu

[7:21]  Coffee Mug whispers: Ahh! Fresh Hot Coffee

[7:21]  Bleu Oleander: another very good book: Long for this world by Jonathan Weiner

[7:21]  Bleu Oleander: issues of extending life

[7:21]  Bleu Oleander: and living much longer

[7:22]  Bleu Oleander: good ethics discussion

[7:22]  Archmage Atlantis: Yes, that is another important issue

[7:22]  Bleu Oleander: he writes his book around the life of Aubrey de Grey

[7:22]  Archmage Atlantis: Another book for my list :)) - TY

[7:22]  Bleu Oleander: who also spoke with our group

[7:23]  Bleu Oleander: fascinating story

[7:23]  Archmage Atlantis: That's some powerful salon group *g*

[7:24]  Bleu Oleander: yes, we have a good time

[7:24]  Archmage Atlantis: I wish there were something on SL similar......there is sort of, but not exactly

[7:24]  Bleu Oleander: we try to get people to speak in sl .... hard to do, but we've had some good salons

[7:25]  Archmage Atlantis: Might I ask what general area, geographically, your group is in, Bleu?

[7:26]  Bleu Oleander: Phoenix

[7:26]  Bleu Oleander: where are you Arch?

[7:26]  Archmage Atlantis: Nice, I've been to Phoenix.....my ex was from there

[7:26]  Archmage Atlantis: In SW FL, the Fort Myers area

[7:27]  Bleu Oleander: ah also a nice area I hear

[7:27]  Archmage Atlantis: It is

[7:27]  Bleu Oleander: where are you Bruce?

[7:28]  Bruce Mowbray: [turning green with envy....] Alaso, very rural southern Ohio. No salons here.

[7:28]  Bruce Mowbray: Alas.

[7:28]  Bruce Mowbray: just cornfields.

[7:29]  Bruce Mowbray: Arch, if it's not too personal, can you describe how your studies of transhumanism are impacting you?

[7:29]  Archmage Atlantis: Been there also, and you're right about that.....not near Cinncinnati then

[7:29]  Bruce Mowbray: 75 miles northeast of Cincy.

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[7:30]  Bruce Mowbray: 50 south of COlumbus.

[7:30]  Archmage Atlantis: Sure, Bleu....I'll have to give it a moment to think about

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[7:32]  Archmage Atlantis: The most significant impact, I think, is how it has broadened my knowledge, and understanding, of the range of possibilites....and of what it means to us as species.

[7:32]  Bleu Oleander: we are in many ways controlling our own evolution

[7:33]  Archmage Atlantis: Ah, the lawnmower service is here :)

[7:33]  Archmage Atlantis: Yes, I agree

[7:33]  Archmage Atlantis: The power to manipulate our own DNA is a major change.

[7:34]  Archmage Atlantis: We have just begun, and the Pandora's box is now open and can't be shut.

[7:35]  Bleu Oleander: :)

[7:35]  Bruce Mowbray: Do you feel, both of you, that DNA engineering is more powerful an influence on evolution, say, than genocide. . . war. . . natural disasters (like tsunamis, etc.)?

[7:36]  Archmage Atlantis: That is happening in conjunction with the rapid development of tech

[7:36]  Bruce Mowbray: I mean,..... DNA engineering affects one organism. . .

[7:36]  Archmage Atlantis: and the possible AI that may result

[7:36]  Bruce Mowbray: Or perhaps many -- if it's the DNS of disease germs. . . (Obviously, I am not at all informed on this topic.)

[7:37]  Bleu Oleander: hard to know where it will take us

[7:37]  Bruce Mowbray: DNA. How does that become spread throughout the population -- and therefore become a changer of evolution?

[7:37]  Archmage Atlantis: In the past, genocide, war, natural disasters were the major influence

[7:38]  Archmage Atlantis: Now we are being given a chance to choose for ourselves

[7:38]  Archmage Atlantis: Tho those things will not go away

[7:38]  Archmage Atlantis: as major influences

[7:38]  Bleu Oleander: hi Aph

[7:39]  Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Aph. OK -- but isn't that an individual choice. . . ? I'm still not seeing its impact on evolution (except for changing individuals).

[7:39]  Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Aph

[7:39]  Aphrodite Macbain: Hi

[7:39]  Bruce Mowbray: We're discussing "transhumanism" and its possible effects on evolution of our species and some of the ethical implications of that, Aph.

[7:40]  Aphrodite Macbain: Big subject for morning

[7:40]  Bleu Oleander: using DNA testing to design

[7:40]  Archmage Atlantis: Good summary Bruce

[7:40]  Bleu Oleander: we already do that

[7:40]  Bruce Mowbray: a working definition: Transhumanism is an international intellectual and cultural movement supporting the use of science and technology to improve human mental and physical characteristics and capacities. The movement regards aspects of the human condition, such as disability, suffering, disease, aging, and involuntary death as unnecessary and undesirable. Transhumanists look to biotechnologies and other emerging technologies for these purposes. Dangers, as well as benefits, are also of concern to the transhumanist movement.

[7:41]  Aphrodite Macbain: sounds a little scary

[7:42]  Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Lawrence.

[7:42]  Archmage Atlantis: It is scary at first

[7:42]  Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi

[7:42]  Archmage Atlantis: Hi Lawrence

[7:42]  Aphrodite Macbain: the idea of people designing the human race

[7:42]  Bleu Oleander: hi Lawrence

[7:42]  Aphrodite Macbain: according to their ideas about what would be ideal

[7:43]  Aphrodite Macbain: I probably haven't fully understood

[7:43]  Archmage Atlantis: Yes, at first it sounds like the Nazi plan for a master race

[7:43]  Aphrodite Macbain: well-yes. I didn't want to say so

[7:44]  Bleu Oleander: initially I think it will help control for diseases

[7:44]  Aphrodite Macbain: It must be more than that right?

[7:44]  Archmage Atlantis: But it is happening anyway.....so talking about it is important

[7:44]  Bleu Oleander: but will be used in other ways also

[7:44]  Aphrodite Macbain: yes. How is it happening-genetic engineering?

[7:44]  Bleu Oleander: talking about it is very important

[7:44]  Bruce Mowbray: agrees - about keeping the dialogue open and rigorous.

[7:44]  Bleu Oleander: ethics issues need to be discussed

[7:44]  Aphrodite Macbain: using certain value systems

[7:44]  Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I, for one, am anxious to have that brain chip that will allow us to calculate at incredible speed!

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[7:45]  Bleu Oleander: people should become aware

[7:45]  Aphrodite Macbain: I don't want to be manipulated by a couple of men with a point of view

[7:45]  Lawrence Vyceratops: Peoploe should become aware of everything! The brain chip should also be the internet!

[7:46]  Aphrodite Macbain: sorry- my feminism is leeking out

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[7:46]  Aphrodite Macbain: who should be making the decisons about what changes are made?

[7:46]  Bleu Oleander: not just men Aph

[7:47]  Bleu Oleander: everyone as a culture

[7:47]  Archmage Atlantis: I would restate that important observation as "those who are already developing an awareness would serve best by engaging all who are willing in the dialogue"

[7:47]  Aphrodite Macbain: I know. /me realizes she needs alot more coffee before she speaks

[7:47]  Bleu Oleander: ha!

[7:47]  Bleu Oleander: relates to that!

[7:47]  Archmage Atlantis: On my 3rd cup *g*

[7:48]  Aphrodite Macbain: what about those who dond' agree? Do they get a voice?

[7:48]  Aphrodite Macbain: don't

[7:48]  Archmage Atlantis: Yes......imo.......they should have a voice

[7:48]  Bleu Oleander: should get into the conversation Aph

[7:49]  Lawrence Vyceratops: In the future, I'm optimistic that everyone has a voice. Unless we are all blown into oblivion by our most wonderful and cherished nucluear bombs.

[7:49]  Bleu Oleander: lots of ways to be heard

[7:49]  Aphrodite Macbain: I am concerned that history will repeat itself and the "master race" will again dominate. Neitzche would love this

[7:49]  Bleu Oleander: hi Ed

[7:49]  Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Ed.

[7:49]  Aphrodite Macbain: Hello

[7:50]  Bleu Oleander: Welcome to Play as Being :) have you been here before?

 

 

[7:50]  Bruce Mowbray: Would you consider innoculations of children entering school (age 5 - for common diseases - and required for all) to be an example of transhumanism? -- albeit a very primitive and early example?

[7:50]  Archmage Atlantis: If we are, Lawrence, then I feel we ought to leave a record for those who survive or follow of what happened and how it got to there.

 

[7:50]  Lawrence Vyceratops: As long as our technology advances, I believe it will be more difficult to manipulate the masses. We are beome more informed and it's very hard to manipulate the informed.

[7:51]  Lawrence Vyceratops: I think either we will become more powerful as a people or become destryoed by bombs.

[7:52]  Archmage Atlantis: BTW, Aph, transhumanism is a rather fluid concept at the moment

[7:52]  Lawrence Vyceratops: It will be too difficult for fascist rule as our society become more and more informed.

[7:52]  Aphrodite Macbain: Blub looks like a helicopter in the sky from my position

[7:52]  Archmage Atlantis: And beginning to become more diverse

[7:52]  Bruce Mowbray: Earlier, I asked Arch if he had personal experience with transhumanism - that he'd be willing to share with us (describe for us) here.

[7:53]  Lawrence Vyceratops: I want a robot arm.

[7:53]  Lawrence Vyceratops: Just kidding. My arm is fine. ;)

[7:53]  Bruce Mowbray: OK. But, does anyone have actual RL experience with it?

[7:54]  Bruce Mowbray: more than required immunizations, etc.

[7:54]  Lawrence Vyceratops: No, but I still want that brain chip!

[7:54]  Lawrence Vyceratops: with internet access!

[7:54]  Aphrodite Macbain: What if someone gave you the wrong brain chip

[7:54]  Bruce Mowbray: Need help with workink definition ---

[7:54]  Archmage Atlantis: Only in geneology.....I had my DNA analyzed to trace back where my ancestors came from

[7:54]  Aphrodite Macbain: oh?

[7:55]  Bruce Mowbray: Would a prosthetic device be considered transhumanism?

[7:55]  Bleu Oleander: in a sense yes Bruce

[7:55]  Aphrodite Macbain: it's not human - tho it has ben made by humans

[7:55]  Bruce Mowbray: ok, thanks.

[7:55]  Lawrence Vyceratops: I wear glasses.

[7:55]  Aphrodite Macbain: Not good enough

[7:55]  Lawrence Vyceratops: That counts, right?

[7:56]  Aphrodite Macbain: You need to get new eyes

[7:56]  Bleu Oleander: sure in a sense also Lawrence

[7:56]  Bleu Oleander: all enhancements

[7:56]  Lawrence Vyceratops: Phooey.

[7:56]  Bruce Mowbray: but it seems to me that TH is implying much more than our simple tools to see and hear better. . .

[7:56]  Archmage Atlantis: One of the characteristics of humanity in general is that we manipulate things to our own ends

[7:56]  Bleu Oleander: yes Bruce but all a matter of degree

[7:56]  Archmage Atlantis: So, glasses count

[7:56]  Aphrodite Macbain: yes..each of us. And there is no one idea of perfect

[7:56]  Lawrence Vyceratops: agree, Bleu

[7:57]  Bruce Mowbray: ok.... How about if you want to erase the collective memory of an event. . . for an entire society....?

[7:57]  Aphrodite Macbain: who decides?

[7:57]  Lawrence Vyceratops: What?

[7:57]  Bruce Mowbray: supposeyou could implant a chip that would eliminate all memories of such an event...

[7:57]  Archmage Atlantis: That is why the ethics is of particular interest to me, Aph

[7:57]  Lawrence Vyceratops: Erase the collective memory?

[7:57]  Aphrodite Macbain: that would be very frightening.-and it has been done

[7:57]  Bruce Mowbray: Yes, those are the ethical issues I'm intending to raise....

[7:57]  Aphrodite Macbain: removing records, images,

[7:58]  Lawrence Vyceratops: We would have to study memory more. I don't think we fully grasp it yet.

[7:58]  Lawrence Vyceratops: There doesn't seem to be a specific location that a memory resides in the brain.

[7:58]  Bleu Oleander: I think we are already affecting collective memory with history text books

[7:58]  Aphrodite Macbain: it's amazing how people forget. Perhaps that's why oral history is more reliable

[7:58]  Bruce Mowbray thinks of the movie "Ethernal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" in which that technology was employed.

[7:58]  Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes. Time is the best memory eraser.

[7:58]  Bruce Mowbray: for two individuals who wished to forget about their relationship.

[7:59]  Archmage Atlantis: Agree, Lawrence, but there is a lot of good science being done on just that, and on how the brain/body function

[7:59]  Lawrence Vyceratops: But, in the end, they remembered. ;)

[7:59]  Archmage Atlantis: Or relearned

[7:59]  Aphrodite Macbain: layers upon layers. But as I age I start to remember more of the past, although it becomes skewed

[7:59]  Bruce Mowbray: ;-) --- Yes, sort of -- at least they were able to begin their relationship a-new.

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[8:00]  Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm sure we could do that without zapping our neurotransmitters haha

[8:00]  Aphrodite Macbain: Must go. Bye all

[8:00]  Bleu Oleander: bye Aph

[8:00]  Archmage Atlantis: Bye Aph

[8:01]  Bleu Oleander: need to go also .... bye all .... have a great day :)

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[8:01]  Bruce Mowbray: My point about mass immunizations was -- if we can do that (for everyone - and have been requiring it for decades), then is that not a fore-runner for something else that could be required of all beginners in school (like a particular brain chip that would have them already know words, math functions, spellings, etc.)?

[8:01]  Bruce Mowbray: Bye Aph.

[8:02]  Bleu Oleander: bye for now :)

[8:02]  Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Bleu -- have a fine day!