2013.10.06 07:00 - world peace, twerking, and imitation

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bleu Oleander: hiya Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Bleu, being on Calfirnia time is very strange
Bleu Oleander: u in CA?
stevenaia Michinaga: for a wedding, it;s been lovely here
Bleu Oleander: ah nice, what part?
stevenaia Michinaga: Santa Cruz
--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: although I was in San Francisco for a free concert on Friday, stayed with a friend I haven;t seen for 40 years
Bleu Oleander: sounds fun!
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: hiya Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Bleuuuuu
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, always a treat, now I ahve a plce to stay in SF :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Stevieeee
stevenaia Michinaga: hi ELiza
Bleu Oleander: you both are looking lovely
Eliza Madrigal: ty :)
stevenaia Michinaga: you too ELiza
Eliza Madrigal: I have a place to stay in SF?
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I appear as a cloud to me today
Bleu Oleander: you both are very colorful
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, re-connected with friend I haven;t spoken to in 40 years
Eliza Madrigal: ah, the letter friend?
stevenaia Michinaga: and we stayed with her when we were in SF on Frieday
Bleu Oleander: nice!
Eliza Madrigal: wonderful
stevenaia Michinaga: and we stayed with her when we were in SF on Friend :)
stevenaia Michinaga: opps, another letter friend
Eliza Madrigal: Fubu typing again?
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: no, in Santa Cruz at the moment
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Looking forward to seeing pema this morning. Are you able to stay this week Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: yes, looking forward to it
Eliza Madrigal: great
Santoshima Resident: 's current display-name is "San".
Bleu Oleander: usually sundays are busy but not today :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: hi San
stevenaia Michinaga: The house is begining to stir, here, many relatives about, I don;t know I I will be around
stevenaia Michinaga: San
Santoshima Resident: hello
stevenaia Michinaga: hi there
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San :)
Eliza Madrigal: too bad Stevie.. thought it was early enough you could sneak in two sessions :)
stevenaia Michinaga: we shall see, the coffee shop opens at 8:00, there are priorities even on Sunday
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: (odd I didn't type anything just moved my camera and the typing animation started)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya Louis
Louis Onyett: howdy Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Louis :)
Santoshima Resident: hello
Louis Onyett: Hi Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: morning Louis
Louis Onyett: Sam, how are you?
Santoshima Resident: san
Louis Onyett: D'oh
Santoshima Resident: ok, thanks, you?
Louis Onyett: type lag
Louis Onyett: Good, and hi to stevenaia, too
Eliza Madrigal: last day to throw out ideas on promoting world peace
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: any ideas talked about this week?
stevenaia Michinaga: I hope not
Eliza Madrigal: after today, sale is over...haha
Eliza Madrigal: quite a few interesting sessions this week, though no idea jumps to hand
Louis Onyett: from what I gather, peace corps has some good ideas
Bleu Oleander: was an interesting op-ed today by Dan Goleman
Eliza Madrigal nods re Peace Corp
Bleu Oleander: about social divides leading to less empathy
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, Louis, working by example
Eliza Madrigal: that makes sense... it is possible to move so differently in the world one might not often come across people unlike oneself
Bleu Oleander: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...s/?ref=opinion
Louis Onyett: Mean rich people, anyways. ;-)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: take the private jet to the private car in which one is driven to the upscale restaurant then let out in the gated community which only allows folks at one's level
Eliza Madrigal: think there are more people living that way in the US
--BELL--

Louis Onyett: and shoot trespassing teenagers
Louis Onyett: tragic
Bleu Oleander: interesting about the social skills ... less listening, attention towards folks in lower social groups
Eliza Madrigal: not a wealth issue so much as a value system/belief system
Eliza Madrigal: one interesting divide is the question of charity vs justice
Bleu Oleander: say more
Eliza Madrigal: there can be a charity mindset, ie "I am hoarding wealth but I give such percentage to charity..."
Eliza Madrigal: vs a mindset that looks at the flow of resources
Bleu Oleander: ah ok
Eliza Madrigal: and attempts to draw attention or speak to that and has less of a caretaker mentality
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: looks at underlying systems I guess
Bleu Oleander: more based on money and percentages
Bleu Oleander: rather than empathy
Eliza Madrigal: and access
Bleu Oleander: ability to imagine ones self in anothers shoes
Eliza Madrigal: well one looking at the larger picture and flow of resources is able to imagine they'd been born in diff circumstances
Bleu Oleander: yes
Louis Onyett: imagine there is no money, what then?
Bleu Oleander: lol
Bleu Oleander: almost impossible to think about
Eliza Madrigal: and no religion too... la la
Bleu Oleander: sooo pervasive
Louis Onyett: isn't it, though? Very strange
stevenaia Michinaga: or politics
Eliza Madrigal: @@
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: it can't be that the symbol is the problem can it?
Eliza Madrigal: money is just a symbol? or stands for..
Bleu Oleander: not really ... has actual value in many ways
stevenaia Michinaga: the great separator
Louis Onyett: ah, but without it, all that one can do is give what one has, either time and energy or real resources
Bleu Oleander: things started to fall apart about 10kya :)
Eliza Madrigal: what one has to give may not be what is needed
Bleu Oleander: right
Louis Onyett: they might not have been great before then truth be known
Louis Onyett: lol
stevenaia Michinaga: got to go play with sister-in-law :), hope to be back at 8:00
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: true Louis
Eliza Madrigal: okay bye...happy playing
Bleu Oleander: ok bye steve
Santoshima Resident: bye steveie
Louis Onyett: sounds fun-enjoy your time
Bleu Oleander: r u still watching the history of humankind Eliza?
Louis Onyett: regardless, to think about peace it might help to imagine fundamental differences to where we are now
Bleu Oleander: his talk on money was interesting
Eliza Madrigal: yes! money and slavery
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: true Louis
Louis Onyett: And, what is that show/lecture you talk of?
Bleu Oleander: its a coursera class
Bleu Oleander: very good one
Louis Onyett: Nice
Eliza Madrigal: one interesting story was Warren Buffet's son, who is involved in efforts to bring water systems to villages, etc...
Eliza Madrigal: and for years they've been doing things one way, ie bringing the newest tech
Eliza Madrigal: but he realized that it is far better to work with them to see what they need and are able to use in a collective way
Eliza Madrigal: rather than sort of pooling the tech in one area
Eliza Madrigal: it was a shift in thinking
Louis Onyett: Yes, Warren's son the farmer you are referring to, I think
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Louis Onyett: I get quite a lot of warren news here in his home town
Louis Onyett: Quite a family
Eliza Madrigal: ah, what are your thoughts
Louis Onyett: Warren and his son, and Bill Gates and others really get it
Louis Onyett: Actions, and thought out plans are paramount to make real world changes
Louis Onyett: for the better
Santoshima Resident: please excuse me ... need to do some work ... will try to be back at 8 ~ tx for the chat
Bleu Oleander: does it take that much money to really get it?
Louis Onyett: I feel hope for the world because of the number of people them
Eliza Madrigal: okay see you San
Bleu Oleander: bye san
--BELL--

Louis Onyett: One need not have the money, but it doesn't hurt
Louis Onyett: lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: no part is too small I think ...
Louis Onyett: For sure
Eliza Madrigal: we can't go back, in terms of having no monetary system, so it seems to me the best ideas are a blend of the newest progressive ideas and timeless values
Bleu Oleander: indeed
Louis Onyett: Yes-just that before money, still challenges to be sure
Bleu Oleander: timeless values .... interesting to think about
Eliza Madrigal nods
Louis Onyett: and one can see what the issues were then...and still are now
Bleu Oleander: do values change with time?
Eliza Madrigal: true.. getting to root
Louis Onyett: Often seems to me a lot of core values have not changed
Bleu Oleander: such as ...
Louis Onyett: and yet, sometimes there are shocking examples where they have
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: "love your neighbor as yourself" hasn't changed, but who your neighbor is has changed a great deal
Bleu Oleander: different cultures have different values
Bleu Oleander: I've tended to rethink that one a bit
Eliza Madrigal listens
Louis Onyett: Honesty, charity, hard work, fairness seem to be consistent in most places/times
Bleu Oleander: love your neighbor as they would want to be loved
Eliza Madrigal: yes.... have always heard it that way... as you would that others would do unto you... it is a good clarification, Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: with listening at core
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bleu Oleander: too often some impose their ideas on others
Louis Onyett: And yet, who is worthy of being neighbor changes drastically, and in short time
Bleu Oleander: don't make an effort to understand first
Eliza Madrigal: nods nods
Eliza Madrigal: hierarchial thinking is still very much with us... not sure what an alternative is, since so pervasive through time
Bleu Oleander: David Brin talked about that
Eliza Madrigal: and freeing for some cultures
Eliza Madrigal: yes?
Bleu Oleander: pyramid vs diamond
Louis Onyett: hmmmm....parent child type relationships?
Bleu Oleander: diamond is unstable so hard to keep
Louis Onyett: or king and subjects?
Bleu Oleander: pyramid is very stable so most cultures set up this way
Louis Onyett: nods
Bleu Oleander: he suggested that technology could change that
Eliza Madrigal: good boundaries of respect seem important both for the one who passes them down (ie parent) and the one who works with them (child) but there there is a natural opening, of growing up
Eliza Madrigal: interesting, tech?
Louis Onyett: internet democracy?
Louis Onyett: or SL mafia?
Louis Onyett: lol
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Bleu Oleander: yes, once everyone has everything in a chip
Bleu Oleander: so only a "handshake" becomes necessary
Eliza Madrigal: but there will still be chip-givers?
Bleu Oleander: becomes a village again
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: so still a trust culture
Louis Onyett: chip 'controller' I am afraid
Louis Onyett: :(
Bleu Oleander: he thought resilience and imagination were most importrant
Eliza Madrigal: such a weird time we're in... hard not to be paranoid @@ with good reason
Louis Onyett: Not paranoid if it is true
Louis Onyett: :P
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: he was suggesting to go with the transparency and less privacy
Louis Onyett: check and check
Bleu Oleander: interesting to think about
Eliza Madrigal: really interesting... agree with transparency and think less privacy is just happening... hard not to go with it
Bleu Oleander: yes so don't fight it
Eliza Madrigal: well we have to evolve more before that is safe?
Bleu Oleander: could be better if everyone has no privacy together
Louis Onyett: and, not really an issue in that if one wants privacy, don't write it down or say it on the airwaves
Bleu Oleander: hard to do
Louis Onyett: that sounded somewhat provocative-no privacy together
Louis Onyett: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: I can share my secrets with someone I know won't judge me however we have such huge divisions in thinking about what is dangerous to culture, etc.
Bleu Oleander: :)
--BELL--

Louis Onyett: Interesting, true that we still do not feel that we can always share
Eliza Madrigal: I've heard that we don't really have privacy anyway - just think that we do - that at some level of consciousness everyone's business is quite known
Bleu Oleander: obviously not an easy idea but has some interesting aspects
Louis Onyett: since some will judge or misundersatnd
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal hums Mr Rogers "please won't you be, my neighbor..." lol
Louis Onyett: happily. :D
Eliza Madrigal: timeless :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: we also had a great conversation with Robert Boyd this week
Louis Onyett: SLeighbors
Eliza Madrigal grins
Bleu Oleander: was a good week for interesting talks
Eliza Madrigal: What was the gist of his talk, Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: cultural evolution
Bleu Oleander: wrote a great book, Not by genes alone
Bleu Oleander: he talked about imitation
Bleu Oleander: how we are "wired" to imitate
Bleu Oleander: and how we imitate more if we see others doing it
Eliza Madrigal: that makes sense
Bleu Oleander: so sometimes things get out of hand
Bleu Oleander: get going on the wrong track and can't stop
Louis Onyett: amen....tatoo comes to mind
Louis Onyett: lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: we tend to ignore reason and copy instead
Eliza Madrigal: I read you make an interesting point about TV, Louis, in one of the logs. I agreed with you regarding the influence
Bleu Oleander: what was your point?
Eliza Madrigal: unfortunately it usually means less that people are being nice and funny, than that everyone starts twerking, lolol
Louis Onyett: Imitation is what essentially was causing the positive change in that instance
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden :)
Eliza Madrigal: but worldwide I think you're right
Bleu Oleander: hi Eden :)
Louis Onyett: twerking is funny from what I hear...but I could be misinformed
Louis Onyett: ;(
Eden Haiku: HelloEliza, Bleu, Louis :-)
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Louis Onyett: Hiya Eden
Eliza Madrigal: well things that look screwy on one level can have different effects on another
Louis Onyett: world peace, twerking, and imitation latest topics
Bleu Oleander: so perhaps imitation can be used towards world peace goals?
Eliza Madrigal: heard on NPR, an American teacher in China saying that his students were fascinated by our govt shut down and it to them, seemed like great health of a country
Louis Onyett: I guess our hypothesis is if more folks would imitate twerking world peace might increase
Eden Haiku: Thanks. Looking up "twerking", no idea what it means ...
Eliza Madrigal: oh no, I'm sorry for that Eden
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I've infected PaB with pop culture
Bleu Oleander: Miley made a household word
Eden Haiku: Fine, I'm improving my English vocabulary all the time
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Louis Onyett: Ah, but "What does the fox say?"
Bleu Oleander: not the first time Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahahhaa
Louis Onyett: Now we are really viral
Eliza Madrigal hangs head and reminds that she has teenagers
Louis Onyett: Laughs to himself because of twenty somethings
Eden Haiku: Oh, it's a dance :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :) um...sort of
Bleu Oleander: been there lol
Louis Onyett: Strangely, remembers himself as a more serious twenty something...
Eden Haiku: Moving the non-catholic parts of the body it seems he he!
Louis Onyett: memory might be selective
Eliza Madrigal grinning
Louis Onyett: lol
Bleu Oleander: how one writes ones own history hehe
Louis Onyett: Certainly not the Jewish parts?
Louis Onyett: Whatever that could mean....
Eliza Madrigal: we'd better straighten up before guardians session... ahem :::looks like an upright citizen::::
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Eden Haiku: Going to you tube for an image is worth a 1000 words ...
Louis Onyett: um, yes, much straightening required now
Eliza Madrigal: shh don't tell pema :P
Louis Onyett: lol
Eden Haiku: I'll follow you guys...
Eliza Madrigal: okay... thank you Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander closed all the open windows on desktop :)
Louis Onyett: My take: Eliza started it.
Louis Onyett: :D
Eliza Madrigal: yeah...alas, sigh
Eden Haiku: Beautiful outfit Eliza :)
Bleu Oleander: ok on to the village hall
Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much Eden, can give a landmark
Bleu Oleander: thanks all