2013.10.26 01:00 - Identity, privacy, Facebook

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Wol Euler: buongiorno, qt
Wol Euler: sorry I'm late
Qt Core: Hi, wol, no problem, i just awake earlier than usual
Wol Euler smiles.
Qt Core: (i'm messing around at mypc since 9 and already had breakfast)
Wol Euler: what is that? (mypc)
Qt Core: just a typo, missed the space
Wol Euler: oh, messing with your pc
Wol Euler: heheheheeh
Wol Euler: thought maybe it was a website
Wol Euler grins.
Qt Core: (to be honest i failed for the dark side and got myself a facebook account a few days ago so i was reading some of the help pages to understand it)
Wol Euler: ah :)
Wol Euler: well, it's a big club (those who failed)
Wol Euler: the big thing is trying to keep on top of the changes to privacy rules
Wol Euler: because FB always does change this to sneak stuff past you
Qt Core: my astronomy club is on it and it seem to work, so i "have" to follow
Wol Euler: ah
Wol Euler nods.
Qt Core: well, just don't post anything you don't want your mum to see ;-)
Wol Euler: right
Wol Euler: and know that this includes comments you make on pages of people whom you know she doesn't follow
Qt Core: i decided to sandbox it using it and doing related navigation on another browser program installed just for it (paranoid enough ?)
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: that is good sense, not paranioa
Wol Euler: they are actively trying to grab all the identities of all the people worldwide
Wol Euler: so it will try to relate the things you tell it to anything it can dicover by accident on other sites
Qt Core: remind me about some US spying agency... well they are both US based ;-)
Wol Euler: tip: you will see FB "like" buttons on entirely unrelated websites, be very cautious of those
Qt Core: webb, in the other browsers they are usually hidden/blocked
Wol Euler: good :)
Wol Euler: anyway, it's not all bad :) it does have its uses
Qt Core: it may be a little nuisance, the idea is using the other browser and when i find something fb-worty cut&paste the address
Wol Euler: the biggest of which is that everyone does already use it
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: just see how you feel about it, you can always go back to a single browser for all
Qt Core: well, the idea of letting people connect is good
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: it's not absolutely evil in the way that guns are
Qt Core: yes, especially as i discovered in less then an hour of being there that someone posted a group pic of the astronomy club and tagged me with my name... so alrteady something less to hide (wondering if when they'll connect my name on it and my account)
Wol Euler: just that it collected far too much power (by accident)

--BELL--

Qt Core: don't really know if it was by accident after the first million of users...
Wol Euler: well, they didn't design it as a tool for defeating privacy and enabling identity theft
Wol Euler: that just was a consequence of a series of decisions about letting people link to other people
Wol Euler: now, having said that: they are now pushing that as far as they can take it
Wol Euler: further than the law allows in many countries
Wol Euler: aided by the development of instant reliable facial recognition in the last years
Wol Euler: I saw a TED talk yesterday at work about this
Wol Euler: researchers approached a random stranger and asked them to fill out a survey.
Wol Euler: while s/he was writing they took a photo of the face and uploaded it to a FR service
Qt Core: just seeing what a little camera can do (even only at detect the presence of faces)...
Wol Euler: in 1 out of 4 cases they got the person's name before they finished writing the form
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: typically from photos on facebook
Wol Euler: even if the person doesn't have a FB account of their own
Wol Euler: as you said, a friend of yours posts a photo and marks your face on it. Bingo, you are done.
Qt Core: the only help there is having a common name
Wol Euler: heheh
Qt Core: don't know if he lives still there, but there was someone about my age with the same name as mine... less than 100m from where i live, we even have a same name father and spend a summer vacation in the mopuntains together
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: that is unusual
Wol Euler: or it seems so to me
Qt Core: (and we aren't related at all)
Wol Euler: back in a sec, coffee is ready :)
Wol Euler: back
Wol Euler smiles.
Qt Core: just found something fb-worty (at leas for computer crazy people: http://youtu.be/kPRA0W1kECg (the bogosort is a joke sorting algorithm, it is just randomize the list and check if it magically became ordered)
Wol Euler: heheheh

--BELL--

Wol Euler: geeky fun, yeah, I may post that too :)
Wol Euler: does the bogosort actually work? I assume that it must, if you let it run long enough :)
Qt Core: statistically speaking it surely work, it just may need a few millennia
Wol Euler: hello kiremimi! lovely to see you again
Qt Core: Hi kiremini
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: Hi, Wol. I was not sleeping well, and stop by
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: Hi QT
Wol Euler: awwwwww
Wol Euler: sorry to hear that
Wol Euler: so you are in the US now?
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: well, yes, and even Denver...
Wol Euler: ah :)
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I was visiting a few friends here. and also a conference
Wol Euler: perhaps it's the altitude? people say that is hard to get used to
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: no, i guess, I am not affected by the hight, i think, but not quite sure how ....
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: it's good to see you again
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: thanks :)
Wol Euler: I miss the Sakura chats
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: yes
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I am currently having a group discussion with several deaf people at La Sakura
Wol Euler listens.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I learned a lot from their experiences.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I would love to have sessions on identity again...
Wol Euler smiles.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: sorry QT , that was a discussion group that wol helped me to form at my site...it was extreemly interesting.
Wol Euler smiles modestly.
Qt Core: np, i've heard about it
Wol Euler: I just turned up and talked, you and Eliza did all the work :)
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: hehe. Eliza is always great
Wol Euler: indeed!
Wol Euler: so much energy and kindness
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: nods
Wol Euler: in a way we were talking about identity before you came, about how Facebook publishes everything about you :)
Wol Euler: even if you don't have an account of your own

--BELL--

Wol Euler: Qt just signed up, and immediately found that FB already knew him because a friend had posted a group photo and had named him in that.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: interesting
Qt Core: i was always fascinated by the idea of ghost accounts that fb may aggregate whatever he has and build up the identity of people without accounts there but active online elsewhere
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I read about that, yes
Wol Euler: they make secret accounts for all the people like Qt whose names they discover
Qt Core: then it may be better to make an account and have a minimum of power about your own informations (that aren't really your anymore)
Wol Euler nods.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I am in Denver attending hundreds of internet related researchers talking a lot on identity and facebook...
Wol Euler: aha :)
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: i am also careful about FB...do not use much.
Qt Core: i havent yet decided (after decades) if discovering on fb (or on the phonebook) that there are many people with your own name ;-)
Wol Euler: http://www.ted.com/talks/alessandro_...y_matters.html <- the instant free facial recognition talk
Qt Core: (is a good thing stayed in the keyboard)
Wol Euler: you probably know that already, but I saw it yesterday and was fascinated/worried
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: thanks, wol.
Wol Euler: [01:35] Wol Euler: I saw a TED talk yesterday at work about this [01:36] Wol Euler: researchers approached a random stranger and asked them to fill out a survey. [01:36] Wol Euler: while s/he was writing they took a photo of the face and uploaded it to a FR service [01:36] Wol Euler: in 1 out of 4 cases they got the person's name before they finished writing the form
Qt Core: that would be cool as a magician trick too ;-) (and less dangerous too)
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: :))
Wol Euler nods.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I met a very interesting Zen monk in Japan a few month ago.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I do not know if yu are interested in Zen and Japanese buddhism.
Wol Euler nods.
Qt Core: not specifically in religion but still fascinaded by Japan, yes, i am :-)
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: yes, i understand.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: qt
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: In Japan, Zen is quite often associated with Aesthetics, taste..etc too

--BELL--

Kiremimi Tigerpaw: but this monk was one of few priests I met in Japan who really took mediation seriously
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: So, it was interesting experience for me to see him.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: But his Zen gardens are also so beautiful.
Wol Euler listens.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I wish I could show you...
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: For such sharing, FB might be useful....
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: unless he has a website of his own :) as so many of us do
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: true, your blog is great.
Wol Euler: people can make pages on facebook for other people, which can be a good or bad thing :)
Wol Euler: so a fan of his gardens could make a page about them even if the monk himself is not in FB
Qt Core: i'm discovering (that at least for me) microblogging (ie: twitter) is better, tried a blog but was stopped by the idea that after getting some inspiration you have to sit down and write it down and then worry if that may be of interest, while on twotter you got the inspiration, you write a couple of phrases and you go
Wol Euler smiles.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: making a FB page for others sounds a bit strange for me.
Wol Euler: I'm finding the opposite actually, as time goes on. I find I really miss the long thoughtful pieces I used to write on the blog
Wol Euler: well, fans about their heroes :)
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: :))
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: Writing and maintaining a blog requires a lot of work..
Wol Euler: indeed :) lack of time was the main reason I stopped, when my work changed
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: oh. i did not know you changed the work....hope you found it better...
Wol Euler: same job, just changed from half-time to full-time when we got a major project
Wol Euler: several years ago now
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: oh, that you meant. but you are sometimes updating your blog.
Wol Euler: mmhm
Wol Euler: as the mood strikes
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: hehe
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: I found your blog quite insightful and playful.
Wol Euler smiles modestly.
Wol Euler: thank you :)

--BELL--

Kiremimi Tigerpaw: i have a group of Japanese ladies who are connected through blogs. At the same time, blogs can be, just like FB, a kind of window dressing, only writing about something you can proud of. but yours are not. I see your internal voice from time to time.
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I don't want to write just advertising for myself :)
Wol Euler: "look how wonderful I am"
Wol Euler: bah
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: :) true
Qt Core: that said i can't believe one never does that, even in a non conscious way ;-)
Wol Euler: :-P
Qt Core: maybe even in the "reverse" form of look at e how honest/open/humble i am
Wol Euler nods.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: mmm
Qt Core: well, waking earlier than usual and spending all the morning at the pc isn't mosts idea of productivity but the relaxing readied me for a quite busy rest of the day that at some point has to start ;-)
Qt Core: as in now
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: nods
Wol Euler smiles.
Qt Core: so bye all and have fun
Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
Wol Euler: enjoy the weekend
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: by qt
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: Well, I also now getting sleepy finally, and should go back to bed.
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: i hope that you enjoy the weekend.
Wol Euler: thank you :)
Wol Euler: same to you, dear kiremimi
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: :))
Wol Euler: I wish you a happy and information-rich converence :)
Wol Euler: sleep well
Kiremimi Tigerpaw: well, a bit too much info. but i enjoy it..good night
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: goodnight