2010.09.07 19:00 - Faith Hope Love Lab

The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The highlighting is by Eos Amaterasu.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Ewan!
Ewan Bonham: hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: And hi Calvino!
Ewan Bonham: Hi Cal
Eos Amaterasu: and SophiaSharon!
Ewan Bonham: hi sharon
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Eos and Ewan :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eos, Calvino and Ewan :)

long, long pause...

Calvino Rabeni: Well, any reports from the "Lab" today ? :)
Ewan Bonham: lab?
Eos Amaterasu: an inquisitive dog
Calvino Rabeni: PaB Lab - "We are a group of people who use our own lives as a Laboratory"
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Ewan Bonham: OIC
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eliza and Bruce
Calvino Rabeni: The inquisitive dog - had some lab results to report ? :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bruce (and blub)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Stevenaia
Ewan Bonham: Hi Eliza and Bruce
Calvino Rabeni: And Eliza / Steve / SSL - good evening to you :)
Eos Amaterasu: and Eliza and Stevenaia
Bruce Mowbray: Hi Eos, Cal, Ewan, and Sharon. (I came along with steve and Eliza.)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Cal
stevenaia Michinaga: eos
Eliza Madrigal: Good Evening Cal, and Ewan, and Eos, and Sharon, and Bruce, and Steve, and... Blub...
Ewan Bonham: Hi Steve
Eliza Madrigal: my skirt works ike a magic carpet..haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: it flies? :)
Eos Amaterasu: Cal was wondering about "lab" results...
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Yes.. listening now :) Sorry
Eos Amaterasu: contributing :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking how it would be if I could see Eos' inquisitive dog, and he could see my woman-in-the-cafe :)
Calvino Rabeni: Then we'd have combined lab reports
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Tibet.
Eos Amaterasu is puzzled but wagging his tail
Calvino Rabeni: heheh
Calvino Rabeni: So Eos is frisky tonight :)
Ewan Bonham: I think maybe we are giving our reports
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Tibet :)
Tibet Enzo: hi bruce
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Tibet
Calvino Rabeni: And I learned something about being a great educator
Tibet Enzo: hiall
Ewan Bonham: Hi Tibet
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Tibet, have you been here at Play as Being before?
Tibet Enzo: no, my 1st time here
Eos Amaterasu: Ah, I'll give u a notecard...
Eliza Madrigal: Welcome :) Nice to meet you
Tibet Enzo: thanks, nice meeting you all
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Our chat here is logged and sent to a wiki, http://wiki.playasbeing.org. Is that all right with you?
Tibet Enzo: no problem
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Ewan Bonham: A lab to me sounds like we are experimenting..
Tibet Enzo: exploring...
Eliza Madrigal: looking into something...
Eos Amaterasu: which has playful aspects

--BELL--

Ewan Bonham: Perhaps viewing our inner reflections as they show up outwardly from a new perspective..
Calvino Rabeni: Experimenting - Pema's flavor as a scientist - I like to think we are studying our experiences intentionally and learning from them - both spontaneously and systematically.
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Aphrodite, hi MarkAllen
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite, wonderful hair color
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mark :)
Ewan Bonham: Hi Aphro..
Ewan Bonham: Hi Jasmine..
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Jasmine
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you. hello
Jasmine Lordenwych: hello
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Jasmine
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Jasmine :)
Jasmine Lordenwych: :-)

Outcomes and expectations...

Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes our experiments take on minds of their own...
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, they do :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I think that is the point
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: I am always amazed that the outcome comes without expectation
Aphrodite Macbain: what is the point?
stevenaia Michinaga: unexpected outcomes
stevenaia Michinaga: dropping expectations
Calvino Rabeni: You are allowed to have expectations and study those too :)
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry just asked for an explanation!
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Expectations - can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em ...

Hope...

Aphrodite Macbain: are expectations the same as hope?
Ewan Bonham: looking at expectations...an interesting concept
Eliza Madrigal: pointless without despair
SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes you may 'expect' something negative, hard to answer that Aphrodite

Faith...

Tibet Enzo: expectations come from reason and desire...hope comes from faith
Jasmine Lordenwych: I've heard it said that expectations are disappointments waiting to happen
Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡ tibet
Calvino Rabeni: Hope - hmm, a nice flavor of expectations - different than fear it seems
Aphrodite Macbain: expectations are born from habit
Jasmine Lordenwych: habit and experience
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Ewan Bonham: And maybe habit of thoughts
Calvino Rabeni: Personally I wouldn't want to live life protecting myself all the time from disappointment
stevenaia Michinaga: when I "work" in RL, the result is never known, it is usually framed funtionally, but aestheically it is relatively free until a result emerges
Aphrodite Macbain: it happened this way yesterday, therefore/.....
Eliza Madrigal: just what makes that little ol ant.. (hehe sorry)
Aphrodite Macbain: cant
Jasmine Lordenwych: :-) Eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Pila
Tibet Enzo: i would say that we have objective expectations but hope...comes deeper from one's heart
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods at Tibet
Aphrodite Macbain: bebut we o expet thins to work in preductable ways othesise it would be chaos
Eliza Madrigal: otherwise we'd see the chaos
stevenaia Michinaga: or beauty
Aphrodite Macbain: like what I jst wroe
SophiaSharon Larnia: the beauty of chaos
Aphrodite Macbain: like my typing
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Pila
Pila Mulligan: ahh, bumping and rezzing -- hi everyone
Ewan Bonham: Hi Pila
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe Pila
Aphrodite Macbain: not beautifuljust messy
Eos Amaterasu: pytos, yes, Aph
Calvino Rabeni: Chaos - somehow has a bad name - but it's our friend - it is the place where Life actually lives - and seeks out that place
Jasmine Lordenwych: I keep flashing back to the end of the original "Time Machine" movie - no expectations... no drive... nothing happens
Pila Mulligan: laggy -- late hellos all
Tibet Enzo: i tend to see expectations as goals...wishes...things or feelings you want to achieve...but hope drives your soul...
Eliza Madrigal: maybe enough has happened already...
Calvino Rabeni: Soul expresses itself through hope
Jasmine Lordenwych: interesting, Eliza
Ewan Bonham: Could i expect to have hope?
SophiaSharon Larnia: what if there is no hope?
stevenaia Michinaga: hope=creativity
Jasmine Lordenwych: no hope is dispair
Calvino Rabeni: No hope - you are dead
Tibet Enzo: you may have "great expectations" but "huge", endless hope
Aphrodite Macbain: I think wants and needs are different from expectations
Eliza Madrigal: I think when hope runs out you stop darting back and forth in time... you stop where you are?
Ewan Bonham: So maybe hope can get me out of chaos?
Eos Amaterasu: stop where you are
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope so
Eliza Madrigal: :) Aphrodite
Tibet Enzo: no one gives up hope even just a thin trace of it, while you live
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope that my typing will mprovebut I don't expect it to
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, hope has more fundamental ongoingness
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Jasmine Lordenwych: I agree, Tibet
Ewan Bonham: I have hope that I will continue to breath...:)
Jasmine Lordenwych: lol, Aphrodite
Tibet Enzo: hope won't take you out of chaos, your actions will...hope drives you to lead your actions to take you out of it...
SophiaSharon Larnia: sees hills of hope rolling
Eliza Madrigal: but do you need it to breathe, Ewan?
Aphrodite Macbain: and live
Jasmine Lordenwych: well said again Tibet
SophiaSharon Larnia: hope is linked to desire
Aphrodite Macbain: when I have been depresse I feel totally hopeless. Ther is nopresen, no fture, o meanngs
Eliza Madrigal: I like hope... guess I'm looking at something... if we're in the lab, that is... can we factor out hope and then...
Ewan Bonham: I don't actually think about breathing, yet in the end, each breath is based on hope of life in each moment..
Aphrodite Macbain: present
Tibet Enzo: hope is the last resource of human nature...
Eos Amaterasu: so we should certainly play with it
Ewan Bonham: Perhaps a better word is Faith
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Tibet Enzo: hope keeps you sane and balanced even in the most hard and painful moments...
Aphrodite Macbain: yes play with hope?
Aphrodite Macbain: to use a corny phrase, it is the air under our wings
Eos Amaterasu: we can attend to that as well

--BELL--

Tibet Enzo: faith reinforce hope...
stevenaia Michinaga: fugures : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope
Aphrodite Macbain: hope
Ewan Bonham: Yes, Aphro
Pila Mulligan notes that in aerodynamics it is the air above the wings that provides lift :) (with a smile to Aphrodite)
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, faith hope and I guess charity
SophiaSharon Larnia: lovely entry on hope actually :) thanks Stevenaia
Eliza Madrigal: For me I suppose a certain kind of hope takes me into that place of looking at circumstances.. externals.. waiting for something I've already mapped...
Aphrodite Macbain: f
Eliza Madrigal: whereas recently becoming friendlier with the word 'faith'... that seems immediate
Ewan Bonham: So, Eliza, is that connected for you with expectation?
Aphrodite Macbain: I havetried o typesomethng thre e times
Eliza Madrigal: yes I would say so... most of my 'depressions' I can trace to hope...
Aphrodite Macbain: and now I giveup!
SophiaSharon Larnia: (sorry aph :( )
Eos Amaterasu: Aphrodite is hopelessly afflicted with chaos
Ewan Bonham: There is lag tonight..:)
Pila Mulligan: have hope Aphro
Aphrodite Macbain: typing not hope
Eliza Madrigal: and seems to put distance between myself and action
Eliza Madrigal: yes like lag. hah
Eliza Madrigal: :) Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: I'll practice listening
Eos Amaterasu: give up everything, but keep typing!
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Eliza Madrigal: typing away...
Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
Aphrodite Macbain: and enjoying Steve's red dess
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, this was a gift
Aphrodite Macbain: gowing in the gloaming
Aphrodite Macbain: glowing
Eos Amaterasu: "put on your red dress mama, we're going out tonite..."
Ewan Bonham: Interesting concept...
Aphrodite Macbain: grr
Eos Amaterasu: :-=)

Ewan Bonham: Back to faith for me...without it, I would find it hard to take the next step..:)
Eos Amaterasu: how would you describe that faith?
Eliza Madrigal listens
Aphrodite Macbain too
Ewan Bonham: Hmmm...a feeling of quiet certainty that all will be well..
Ewan Bonham: It is not so much expectation..
Ewan Bonham: But rather turning over for the universal good..
Aphrodite Macbain: faith in what tho?
Tibet Enzo: isn't that hope, too?
Ewan Bonham: For mwe, it is a frame of mind..
Ewan Bonham: yes, related to hope..
Aphrodite Macbain: optimistic
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose for some they are overlapped or similar
Tibet Enzo: can we have hope but no faith?
SophiaSharon Larnia: faith is easiest for me, which is odd i guess... it doesn't stop me from feeling despair sometimes.
Eos Amaterasu listens
Eliza Madrigal: one can 'work up' hope... but my sense is, not faith
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope so Tibet
Eliza Madrigal: that faith comes out

Ewan Bonham: Can we have faith in despair?..
SophiaSharon Larnia: like Ewan said, something steady,you trust tha you will be 'ok'
Eos Amaterasu: faith can include despair
Eos Amaterasu: (as in Mother Teresa)
Ewan Bonham: Yes
Aphrodite Macbain: we need to specify what we are having faith IN
Tibet Enzo: no so sure...i have hope, need it, but have "faith" in a religious or philosophical way..it's a process i'm not sure i've reached yet...
Pila Mulligan: faith could just be a lesson from expereince
Pila Mulligan: rather than a dogma
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods... always find it astounding that Mother Teresa said she didn't feel God's presence at some point... yet continued to act from love
Eos Amaterasu: these words almost certainly have different personal meanings for us (faith, hope)
Aphrodite Macbain: a god? science? basic goodness of people?
stevenaia Michinaga: a process
Eos Amaterasu: faith in nowness
Tibet Enzo: or result of painfull experiences or hard times...
Aphrodite Macbain: faith in a process steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: faith in a way
stevenaia Michinaga: a way of doing something, like ..good
Aphrodite Macbain: is that tust?
Aphrodite Macbain: trust
Ewan Bonham: hmmm...that sounds like having faith in myself for some reason..
stevenaia Michinaga: faith in sciencem kindness
Eos Amaterasu: faith that there is a way, to do such good, Stevenaia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: trust and faith are wrapped pretty tightly together
stevenaia Michinaga: *r
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, there's were things begin to overlap for me...
stevenaia Michinaga: *or
Eliza Madrigal: though to 'entrust' seems an act... a gift.. visa versa
Tibet Enzo: i would say that doing good your becoming a better person is building your character...with or without faith, but surely with "hope"
Eos Amaterasu: Okay: let's try to rest in faith or hope or trust (take your pick) in the next 90 sec break, and then report
Eliza Madrigal: :) nice okay

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: My lag is so bad, I won return I'm afraid. I hve no aith i my server
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Dao :))
Dao Yheng: Hi :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Dao
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Dao (have you been here to Play as Being before?)
Dao Yheng: (almost managed to sneak in this time)
Eliza Madrigal: haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Dao Yheng: very occassionally, thanks Eos
Eos Amaterasu: :-)

Eos Amaterasu: Any labs reporting?
Dao Yheng: Found a bit of faith in scepticism just now :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: thoughts on trust... personally... 'only possible in faith'... whereas faith arises... a spontaneous virtue
Tibet Enzo: don't know but surely find some...hope...
SophiaSharon Larnia: found myself resistant to hope
Tibet Enzo: hope is my "driver"
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
Jasmine Lordenwych: loss of faith can come from disappointed expectations

Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods Jasmine... there seem different kinds of faith too...
Jasmine Lordenwych: where does faith arise to begin with?
Ewan Bonham: Good consideration,. Jasmine
Jasmine Lordenwych: met expectations?
Tibet Enzo: i would consider faith as the next level of hope...
Eliza Madrigal: only speaking personally... no, I don't trust my expectations.. hahha
Dao Yheng: met expectations can create a loss as well?
SophiaSharon Larnia: ha! yes Jasmine, I suspect it may arise in hope?
Jasmine Lordenwych: how so, Dao?
Jasmine Lordenwych: lol, Eliza
Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡ Eliza
Pila Mulligan: "three things will last forever--faith, hope, and love--and the greatest of these is love"
Dao Yheng: just remembering the times expectations didn't quite live up to expectations!
Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, I guess I trust the expectations of mine that are trustworthy
Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡ Dao
Pila Mulligan: expectations are risky business
Eliza Madrigal: interesting point Dao... yes, or they do and 'then what'... hope has one moving on to the 'next thing'
Tibet Enzo: if your expectations are too tangible...you may think that there's no need of hope, faith or trust...
Ewan Bonham: So, perhaps for me this is a full circle..
Ewan Bonham: Faith, Hope, Expectations, Faith, hope..
Tibet Enzo: rise your expectations and hope /faith will come forward...
stevenaia Michinaga: getting dizzy
Eliza Madrigal: hehe Steve
Jasmine Lordenwych: lol, Steve
Ewan Bonham: lofty..
Eos Amaterasu: sometimes you get what you need, & then you meet your world
stevenaia Michinaga: the gullible continue to be so, trust is to great to let go of
Jasmine Lordenwych: ouch, eos - a learning opportunity?
Ewan Bonham: making friends with my world..
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) Ewan
Eos Amaterasu: something bounces back at you
Eos Amaterasu: (another lab :-)
Calvino Rabeni: I heard faith described lately as a willingness to fully live, along with an existential condition that life is utimately unknowable, and to come to terms with that not-knowing
Jasmine Lordenwych: :-)
Jasmine Lordenwych: I like that def, Calvino
Pila Mulligan: sounds complex but accurate Cal
Ewan Bonham: Fullylive with Unknowing?
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, there's no choice anyway, Cal :-)
Dao Yheng: beautiful, cal!
Calvino Rabeni: @eos, indeed
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: "Not knowing is most intimate"
Eos Amaterasu: ummmmm

Calvino Rabeni: Another version - Can one fully live without insisting on safe pre-knowledge of everything
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you for a very nice session Eos, everyone
Calvino Rabeni: The pre-knowledge tends to be boring anyway
Eos Amaterasu: one may keep insisting till the cows come home
Jasmine Lordenwych: Yes, time for me to leave also. Goodnight.
Tibet Enzo: lol, that's our nature...
Pila Mulligan: bye Eliza
Eos Amaterasu: thnx, Eliza & co
Eliza Madrigal: Night :) zzzz
Pila Mulligan: ... and Jasmine
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eliza
Calvino Rabeni: I'm on my way too .. thanks everyone :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Jasmine
Calvino Rabeni: Take care, be well :)
Ewan Bonham: Night all...
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Calvino :)
Pila Mulligan: and Ewan and Cal
Dao Yheng: night all, thank you!
Eos Amaterasu: good night, dearest pavilon guests
Pila Mulligan: and Dao
Ewan Bonham: Very interesting and applicable tonight..
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks so much, G'night. Glad you came Dao! (and all of course)
Calvino Rabeni: <3 Eos
SophiaSharon Larnia: great, yes Ewan :)
Tibet Enzo: good night nad have a safe path...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm off as well, good night evryone :))
Eos Amaterasu: midnight bell here :-)
Pila Mulligan: bye Sharon
Eos Amaterasu: spooky effects
Pila Mulligan: any recommendations for a browser to replace Emerald?
Eos Amaterasu: Not much personal knowledge there - im on v2

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: bye Tibet
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pila Mulligan: V2 has not played well iwht me so far
Pila Mulligan: after trying a few donwloads each time I get the German version :)
stevenaia Michinaga: that will change tomarrow when you will ahve no choice
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: yah
stevenaia Michinaga: there is something call the Pheonix viewer
Pila Mulligan: it wouldnot insatll :|
stevenaia Michinaga: I may try it, has a new team from the Emerald team working on it
Pila Mulligan: ah well, time will tell
stevenaia Michinaga: nods

stevenaia Michinaga: nice crowd tonight eos
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, surprising!
Pila Mulligan: yes, lively
Pila Mulligan: and nice topics
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: always amazed what arises here
stevenaia Michinaga: must be the water
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, it was really rapid-fire tonight
Pila Mulligan: the expectations - disppointment equation is a tough lesson -- Eos touched on it in his 'what you need' lyric
Eos Amaterasu: couldn't keep up with it, plus my chat window was turning black :-)
Pila Mulligan: optimmism and enthusiasm get such good press and such often worrisome results
Pila Mulligan: never heard of a chat window fading
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, it's like which trees get downed by a hurricane:
Eos Amaterasu: the dead or old ones, or the young ones that are topheavy with green, and not enough trunk
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: initial enthusiasm needs to root
Eos Amaterasu: but initial enthusiasm finds the light
Pila Mulligan: as a vehicle for harmony enthusiasm is valuable, but there is also the risk of delusion
Eos Amaterasu: "The Fool" in the tarot deck
stevenaia Michinaga: isn't deslusion a person choice
Eos Amaterasu: Blake's "innocence and experience" speaks to that
Eos Amaterasu: innocence itself has to be let go
Eos Amaterasu: otherwise you sink into delusion
stevenaia Michinaga: delusion is what is left when truth, faith are set aside
Eos Amaterasu: refusal to see
Eos Amaterasu: close your eyes
Pila Mulligan: 'loss of light'
Eos Amaterasu: freeze frame
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, a dificult thing to change once it sets in
stevenaia Michinaga: right.... time stands still
Eos Amaterasu: so then you need to let go,and the universe will do its thing...pop your bubble
Eos Amaterasu: one way or another
Eos Amaterasu: (Blondie?)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I guess that's a kind of faith
Eos Amaterasu: that you can let go of everything, and listen for the response of the universe
Eos Amaterasu: or that you can play and probe, and watch for the response
stevenaia Michinaga: nods

Eos Amaterasu: that "life as a lab" has buddha nature :-)

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: well, darkness has begun to arrive earlier these days, so I'll go out for a walk as the dusk dettles here
Pila Mulligan: settles :) *
stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy Pila
Eos Amaterasu: ~~
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Pila Mulligan: nice to see you all -- bye foronw
stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be off now, thanks Eos