2011.04.03 01:00 - Gymnophobia, or appropriate vs. inappropriate

Wol Euler was the guardian for this session. It can be seen as a continuation of the session "Responses to beauty" from November 14 of last year (URL in the text below).

Wol Euler: hello rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Wol
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi eggs!
Wol Euler: good morning/evening egg
eggsalad Ormstein: morning, ladies!
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Paloma
Wol Euler: hello paloma
Paloma Porta: Wol :)))
Paloma Porta: ok
Paloma Porta: power cigarette
Paloma Porta: brb
Wol Euler: how is everyone today?

--BELL--

eggsalad Ormstein: my weekend has just begun. yay!
Wol Euler smiles.
Paloma Porta: just made it on time
Paloma Porta: Nice kimono btw Wol
Wol Euler: thank you :)
Wol Euler: I wore it for a theatre visit last night as part of hte birthday celebrations
Wol Euler: (kabuki theatre)
Paloma Porta: Oooo
Rhiannon Dragoone: I thought that was a kimono
Rhiannon Dragoone: It looks nice
Wol Euler: ty
Rhiannon Dragoone: Interesting visual, you wearing that and being framed by two nudes
Wol Euler: :)
Paloma Porta: hehe
Paloma Porta: well this all started as an experiment for me - to test nudophobia
Wol Euler listens.
Rhiannon Dragoone: But perhaps we should get a man's perspective on that. Egg? What do you think?
eggsalad Ormstein: I like nudes
Wol Euler: tell us about the experiment, paloma?
Rhiannon Dragoone: egg~the question was~what do you think of Wol's being framed by nudes
Paloma Porta: I got what I expected at first - they complaint that "others would be offended but not me"
Paloma Porta: sometimes it was hosttile
Paloma Porta: sometimes there was no comment
Rhiannon Dragoone: HI Eden
Paloma Porta: sometimes I was told the most bizarre excuses to cover up
Paloma Porta: Hi eden
Paloma Porta: I found "PG" clubs in mature simes
Eden Haiku: Hello Wol, Rhiannon, Paloma, eggsalad:)
Wol Euler: hello eden
Rhiannon Dragoone: Nice wings, Eden
Paloma Porta: totally fab
eggsalad Ormstein: hi eden
Wol Euler: ah, I thought it was an Eshi :)
Wol Euler: nice
Eden Haiku: Thanks:) Eshi's :)
eggsalad Ormstein: ah, a quebecois!
Paloma Porta: anyone interested in me continuing..its all pretty predictable?
Eden Haiku: I like your kimono Wol :)
Wol Euler: please continue, predictable or not :)
Paloma Porta: well....sometimes I feel like i am putting ppl off what is going on
Eden Haiku: a quebecois in the middle of the night yes :) Just woke up .
Paloma Porta: and thats concerned me
Wol Euler: that may well be true, paloma
eggsalad Ormstein: I work for a montreal-based company, so I know quite a few quebecois up at this hour :)
Wol Euler: as would any unusual appearance, a hugely out-of-scale dragon say
Eden Haiku: Talking about dropping clothes ? :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: I've been to Montreal, it's a nice place
Paloma Porta: yes...but i felt more and more this is how i like to be - and that I have a right perhaps to express myself
Rhiannon Dragoone: About Paloma's experiencde with gymnophobia
Rhiannon Dragoone: I do it as a freedom statement
Paloma Porta: oh is that what its called
Rhiannon Dragoone: And I've gotten some very nice responses
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, 'gymnos' means naked in Greek
Paloma Porta: oe of those greek/latin words i bet
Rhiannon Dragoone: Like one sim I was at, I was at a book reading and the estate manager came by
Rhiannon Dragoone: Said that the rule was PG out in the open, only nude indoors.
Rhiannon Dragoone: So she built an enclosure for us, while I was there
Rhiannon Dragoone: One sim onwer changed her rating from PG to M so I could go to discussions there
Paloma Porta: I don't have that celebrity status ie I got few skills
Rhiannon Dragoone: But the most bizaare response I get is that some men think I have to be a guy; no woman would go naked, it seems.
Wol Euler: an interesting response.
Rhiannon Dragoone: And a lot of gay men seem offended by me.
Rhiannon Dragoone: One at a discussion insists that my genitalia are disgusting and ugly
Paloma Porta: I would sum up my experience thus far as "mostly hostile"
Rhiannon Dragoone: Mine is mixed; now, mostly favorable or indifferent
eggsalad Ormstein: lol, I'm in the opposite boat. I meet very few hostile to my style
Wol Euler smiles.
Rhiannon Dragoone: I got a lot of sexual harassment at first and some people think I must be loose or immoral.
Eden Haiku: Yes, that would be my intuition too Rhiannon. No woman would go naked :) Are you a woman?
Paloma Porta: I am surprised at gay men...i found them forgiving
Paloma Porta: surprised at yr experience i mean
Rhiannon Dragoone: I'm also considered to be a man because I'm so smart; a lot of guys think I have to be a mann because i'm intelligent
Wol Euler snorts.
Rhiannon Dragoone: So you figure it out, Eden. I'm intligent and naked. Must be a guy.
Wol Euler is convinced!

--BELL--

Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, and I'd flunk the turing test too, btw.
Eden Haiku: That wasn't my point Rhiannon...I don,T have a prejudice against women being smart :)
Paloma Porta: whats that test?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, it's the test for whether or not you are a robot.
Paloma Porta: ohh
Rhiannon Dragoone: Eden, what if I were a guy; what's it to you?
Wol Euler: You get two closed rooms, and put a computer in one and a live human in the other; connect both to a person who can't see them but can communicate by text with both; and see whether teh examiner can spot the computer
Wol Euler: if the computer passes as human, it has passed the Turing test
Eden Haiku: I don't mind if you are male or female Rhiannon.
Rhiannon Dragoone: And if the human can't, it fails.
Wol Euler: right
Paloma Porta: hehe
Rhiannon Dragoone: And the judges thought the world's greatest Shakespeare scholar was a robot; no one could know as much as she.
Rhiannon Dragoone: And small talk got you considered human.
Rhiannon Dragoone: So the lamer the conversation, the more likely you were to be human.
Wol Euler: a saddening concept
Paloma Porta: we return to fb !!
Rhiannon Dragoone: Paloma, lol
Wol Euler: yeah, really
Wol Euler: I suppose in facebook nobody knows you're naked.
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, personally I use the feet test to determine gender here in SL. No woman would be caught dead with linden feet
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Rhiannon Dragoone: Wol, like in space no one can hear you scream?
Wol Euler: or "on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog"
Eden Haiku: giggles
eggsalad Ormstein woofs

I started steering the conversation at this point, hoping to continue and perhaps resolve the discussion that Rhiannon's naked and immobile presence in the middle of the group had caused last November.

Wol Euler: so paloma, the general reaction to you being naked was hostile, and/but you are still naked. Care to talk about that?
Paloma Porta: sure
Paloma Porta: I was trying to establish where the hostility come from
Eden Haiku: I'm a cat really. My owner is dreaming and I took over her computer
Wol Euler listens.
Paloma Porta: i hypothesised...1. its the shock factor...doesnt happen in the other world
Paloma Porta: 2. christianity based society (?)- naked is sex=wrong
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, some of it is, perhaps; but when it does happen in the other world, you get hostle reactions.
Rhiannon Dragoone: And women have always been controlled by clothing; look at the burka
Paloma Porta: ya a direct parallel then to be more accurate
Paloma Porta: yes
Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, it's almost exactly what you'd get if you could go clubbing of shopping naked in FL
Rhiannon Dragoone: The harassment I got at first mirrored the harassment at my FL job
Paloma Porta: and 3. that old chstnut..male domination....or something.....a female doing something of her own volition ..eeeeek (saracasm)
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, they want to be the ones to strip us, not us
Paloma Porta: mmm
Wol Euler smiles.
Paloma Porta: I have wandered in spain n so forth in rl..nude....its ok by the law there - but its not so loved!
Rhiannon Dragoone: And I met this guy my first month in SL; had almost the same reaction as my gf's boyfriend at my club irl
Rhiannon Dragoone: He was hostile that the whole world got to see me naked and not just him; and he was lusting after me, and I didn't put out; so he eventually banned me from his sim.
Rhiannon Dragoone: But I can come as an identical avatar who does wear clothes.
Paloma Porta: ya/s'funny when i arrived in sl.....I took off all my clothes..hehe newbie skin - dunno -i guess i am making a statement also
Wol Euler: what statement is that?
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, i did it my first day and was disappointed at the painted on panties and bra
Wol Euler: heh, when I rezzed back in the old days, we were bare (no painted on underwear) but had no nipples or genitals
Rhiannon Dragoone: Wol, lol
Wol Euler: barbie-doll look
Rhiannon Dragoone: omg
Wol Euler: (well, perhaps barbie dolls have changed too since my day :)

--BELL--

Paloma Porta: "Beware your conditioning -nudity is not wrong,not immoral,not anti-social perhaps and your reaction is just yours - don't blame me for it!"
eggsalad Ormstein: my exwife was a barbie collector. I know way too much about it
Rhiannon Dragoone: egg, who got custody of the dolls?
Rhiannon Dragoone puts her hand to her mouth in an 'oops' gesture
eggsalad Ormstein: she got everything, thankfully. What would I do with 3000+ dolls??
Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, let's not go there, eggs
Eden Haiku: reminds me sleeping in my niece's playroom/guest room
Eden Haiku: told the little girl in the morning, when she asked
Eden Haiku: I hadn't sleep well no, cause I played with the Barbies all night long
Wol Euler smiles.
Rhiannon Dragoone giggles
Paloma Porta: ..and i have learned a great personal lesson in this - well a few - but - that i am not responsible for how ppl "trigger" (react irrationally) to something I am doing
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, people are responsible for their own reactions.
Wol Euler nods.
Rhiannon Dragoone: One of the funniest reactions to my being naked was here at PaB; remember, Wol? "A beautiful naked body in a fountain is distracting to philosophical conversation"

That session was posted as Responses to beauty; though there was a large amount of discussion in IM that obviously didn't get into the log.

Paloma Porta: It could be argued - that nomatter what one does however extreme the"reicipient" is totally to blame (?) for their reaction
eggsalad Ormstein: what I have found about rl nudity is that most people who go to places where nudity is permitted are people I do NOT want to see naked
Wol Euler: I do remember that, rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: eggs, they aren't ashamed of their bodies.
Rhiannon Dragoone: And why should they be?
Wol Euler: and I think it was correct.
Paloma Porta lloks longingly at the oh so cooool fountain
eggsalad Ormstein: I did not say they should or should not be ashamed. I said that *I* didn't want to see it
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, as I said then, if it is a problem, I will leave and not come back.
Eden Haiku: wondering if we can swim in that fountain?
Wol Euler: rhi, please don't so quick to take offence
Wol Euler: not everything said to you is an insult
Paloma Porta: mmmmm swimm...fountain...yummm
Wol Euler: we talked about this at length, and I thought we agreed
Wol Euler: the problem wasn't you being naked, you are here and naked now
Rhiannon Dragoone: Not taking offense, but if the facilitator thinks that I'm distracting to the group, then I should leave.
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, it was my standing.
Wol Euler: the problem was that you were stood directly in front of somebody ... right
Rhiannon Dragoone: And that's why I try not to come when i'm on my text client
Wol Euler: there is a diference!
Eden Haiku: Ah no, we just walk on the water...
Wol Euler: context exists.
Rhiannon Dragoone: But they wouldn't have complained if you or egg was in that situaion, even though true, they knew you
Wol Euler: yes, they would.
Rhiannon Dragoone: It was standing naked in front of them.
Wol Euler: well, that is not true. It happens all the time
Rhiannon Dragoone: That is what they said, Wol
Wol Euler: if you hang around larger groups you'll often see that newcomers rez in front of somebody who's arlready sitting
Wol Euler: it inevitably happens that the sitter asks the newcomer to move
Wol Euler: that is natural and human
Rhiannon Dragoone: True enough; I was once ejected from a discussion because my controls were too laggy and I couldn't move fast enough
Wol Euler: (not true that they would not have complained about me or egg, I meant)
Rhiannon Dragoone: I knew what you meant
Paloma Porta: this is the next thing - sometimes nudity can be sexual - and inappropriate....close proximity does cause issues along with filthy dialog when naked.
Wol Euler: right, and that is where "appropriate" comes in
Rhiannon Dragoone: But there were complaints that I was standing ~naked~ in the fountain
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, close proximity in SL does have the same effect as in FL
Rhiannon Dragoone: And not sitting can be an issue, esp. for immersives
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi observem!
Wol Euler: hello mini-obs :)
Wol Euler: you're late today
observerm Resident: hello
Rhiannon Dragoone: But he's here and that's the important thing.
Eden Haiku: Hello observerm...
Paloma Porta: Ya naked in the fountain -not knowing yr on a text client looks like griefing perhaps .....hazing...or derision of proceedings?
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: exactly.
Eden Haiku: Who is he? Is his cover known?
Wol Euler: not by me :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, but one person refused to believe I couldn't move or sit. Told me to blindly touch things until I could. So it was a handicap issue to.
Eden Haiku: had the feeling some people knew :)
Wol Euler: maybe :)
Paloma Porta: "Sense of humour failure" a common UK explain-all!!!
Rhiannon Dragoone: I learned that sitting is very important that day.
Eden Haiku: Well, 4.44 here, I better go back to sleep. Nice being with you all. Bye for now.
Wol Euler: :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Nite, Eden
Wol Euler: goodnight eden, I hope you get back to sleep
Paloma Porta: BY Eden :))
eggsalad Ormstein: nice meeting you, Eden. Bonne fin de semaine!
Paloma Porta: poof

I try to guide the conversation away from personal wishes, towards social context. I was frankly curious to see what weight, if any, might be assigned to other people's wishes.

Wol Euler: I find it interesting that concepts like "appropriate" or "inappropriate" haven't come up in the discussion, neither here nor in previous discussions
Paloma Porta: and happy weekend..lol
Paloma Porta: ahaa...Decency - the divine definition....is the highest motivation??
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, they are euphemisms for conformity. At one sim, one of the admins said she didn't think nudity was sexual--she wasn't a prude, after all, it just wasn't "normal" to be naked in public

--BELL--

Wol Euler: so you are both saying that "inappropriate" doesn't exist?
Wol Euler: that your wanting to do something makes it good and acceptable and proper?
Rhiannon Dragoone: But inappropriate is when? I was told by someone, who showered me with clothes, that it was inappropriate at a coffee shop, even though the owner and the group were fine with it. Is that inappropriate?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Is it inappropriate to hold a lecture naked?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Is it inappropriate simply because everyone else is clothed?
Paloma Porta: Its all judgment - and judgement comes from viewpoint . Inappropraite and app' are buried deep in beleef systems of the individual - methinks
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, you shouldn't go to a black tie affair naked. but one couple were celebrating the 3rd anniversry of their SL partnership; it was a formal affair, but they were fine with me being naked there.
Rhiannon Dragoone: Everyone else was in gowns or suits
Wol Euler: why not, rhi? if there is no context but your own desire, why not go naked there too?
Paloma Porta: Decency ? Its a nice benchmark
Wol Euler: I think it's a recognition that we are not alone in the world
Paloma Porta: That isn't fully established !!! lol....
Wol Euler: and that others' comfort and happiness are *perhaps* also of value
Rhiannon Dragoone: So we let others dictate our appearance?
Rhiannon Dragoone: It is inappropriate not to wear a burka, if you're a woman.
Rhiannon Dragoone: It is our recognition of our relationship with our brothers and to God
Rhiannon Dragoone: It is inappropriate for a woman to speak before spoken to.
Paloma Porta: Personally i feel the mind has no answers for inappropriate -one must feel - which is possibly metaphysics etc
Paloma Porta: I was at a meeting today naked - suddenly i felt it was inapproriate fron the view of OTHERS..hehehe,,so i had to make a decision....
Wol Euler listens.
Paloma Porta: which was....to remain. I felt they were learning !!!
Paloma Porta: notice
Rhiannon Dragoone: Which meeting was that?
Paloma Porta: it was all my feelings - what else can we go on reliably?
eggsalad Ormstein: I own one male outfit, for people or places where *I* feel inappropriate
Paloma Porta: an OSHO Island event
Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, and inappropriate is based on who you are too. I went to one meeting and was told, at first, to put some clothes on and sit. But then they recognized that I was the one who helped them advertise their events, and it became, please join the group and sit down.
Rhiannon Dragoone: Again, sitting...
Rhiannon Dragoone: Why is standing naked worse than sitting naked?
Paloma Porta: I also feel we naked types should push thruogh these barriers of objections - with love - especially when we feel certain the objections are not "healthy"
Wol Euler: I'm sure you can work it out if you think about it :)
eggsalad Ormstein: these are questions I can not answer. good night!
Wol Euler: 'night egg, take care
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, eggs, nite, nite
Wol Euler: enjoy the weekend
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, I guess i can see why naked standing; esp. in sl; you looked posed
Paloma Porta: wel standing - all the bits are there on dispolay..its MORE naked ....lol
Rhiannon Dragoone: Especially if you're in the center of the room. And that suddenly makes you a sex object
Wol Euler: right
Wol Euler: you aren't here when you aren't here, so you don't know how our conversations usually run, but your presence does change the conversation
Wol Euler: [redacted] makes lots of silly sexual jokes, for example
Paloma Porta: her naked presence or her interlectual fame??
Wol Euler: which he doesn't do when you aren't here
Wol Euler: naked presence
Wol Euler: and yes, I know that doing so is his decision
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, I'm sure that is so, Wol
Wol Euler: and yes I know you aren't repsonsible for his decision
Wol Euler: but the fact remains that you triggered it.
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, and I've triggered harassment in men who might not be rude otherwise.
Wol Euler nods
Paloma Porta: I don't i carry the naked weight Rhi does however ?
Wol Euler: you haven't been here in that situation before
Wol Euler: try standing immobile directly in front of someone with your bits facing the group
Wol Euler: and see how much weight you acquire
Wol Euler: sitting DOES make a difference
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, i can see that, actually Wol. And that's why I try not to come when i'm on my phone or text client
Wol Euler: it's appreciated, rhi :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Also, at Miralee's; she objects to standing, even if clothed.
Wol Euler nods.
Paloma Porta: i think so - a naked woman standing is gonna atract attention more than sitting..theres more surface area to view..scientifiumaically
Rhiannon Dragoone: And if I do want to come, and know i'll be on my gtext client, I see if I can, earlier, position myself behind tghe column

--BELL--

Rhiannon Dragoone: I was once asked why I was hiding behind tghe column and I told that person it was because I was naked and the group might object to my standing in plain sight.
Rhiannon Dragoone: She thought it was funny
Wol Euler: I suppose it depends on the weight you assign to other people's comfort, and I recognize that perhaps I put too much weight on that
Paloma Porta: I have censor bars which ARE a statement
Rhiannon Dragoone: I've worn them too, Paloma
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, I do assign weight to other people's comfort, Wol; don't make us out to be insensitive in asserting a life style choice.
Paloma Porta: i did it when returning to the "PG" club on the mature sim - the dancers /public were in fits of laughter -which is something i rarely have the ability to spawn!!!!
Rhiannon Dragoone: And I understand Maxine's attitude
Wol Euler: you understand it, but it would never cross your mind to put on clothes because of it?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Paloma, lol. But I'm surprised you weren't banned
Paloma Porta: I am too sneeky to be banned - I play things with care
Wol Euler smiles.
Rhiannon Dragoone: I did say ii would leave if people were uncomfortable with me; and that one guy said 'bye' That was again because I couldn't sit
Wol Euler: rhi, this isn't about banning you. that was never the point
Rhiannon Dragoone: Never said it was; I was responding to Paloma's going in censor bars; some sim owners ban if they they you're dis ing them.
Wol Euler: ok, I crossed two lines of convesation. sorry.
Rhiannon Dragoone: it's ok
Paloma Porta: Rhi one cannot expect decent god fearing citisens to sit happily chatting with a vagina in their face - hehehe its just too much - all the fuses pop!
Rhiannon Dragoone: My pointis Fritz Pearl's: "I am not here to live up to your expectations, nor you to live up to mine. If we meet, it is wonderful; if not, it can't be helped." So no, I won't cover up if someone objects to my being naked; I'll just leave and find someplace else to share my thoughts.
Paloma Porta: I was in tight IM with the club owner...like i said i am perhaps loving first - i seek no hostility
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, I always talk to the club owner and leave if they let me know there's a problem.
Paloma Porta: This is the whole thing - what bloody problem is it exactly ?????????
Rhiannon Dragoone: it shouldn't be, Paloma, I agree
Rhiannon Dragoone: But I'm responding to Wol's point--about considering other people's comfort
Paloma Porta: you know..what happened to came into this world and all that??
Rhiannon Dragoone: She thinks I should put clothes on; I think I should just leave; that way, everyone has her life style choices respected.
Wol Euler: I don't think you should put clohtes on
Wol Euler: I don'T recall having said that

My mistake, reading this carefully it's clear that Rhiannon was talking about Maxine. Sorry, Rhi.

Paloma Porta: Wol dosn t want us yo cover up.she would say..she is most forthright i feel
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, you said shouldn't I consider putting clotghes onn if it makes others, like Maxine, uncomfortable.
Wol Euler: emphasis on the word "consider". Would that ever cross your mind as a possible solution to their discomfort?
Rhiannon Dragoone: It would, and my solution, as I said, is to leave; so they can have their comfort and I can have my life style choice. Ii don't need to share my thoughts in a group which is uncomfortable with my presence and I don't need their looking down on me.
Paloma Porta: the brits are to blame here...isnt this the subjunctive mood ? or something...which we use as the imperative.....eg....May i suggest you do this? is british and polite american for "Do this..."
Wol Euler: I'm fascinated, really.
Wol Euler: I go naked too, hard as that might be to believe :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: No!? you, Wol. I don't believe it
Paloma Porta: Yes you said to me you did
Paloma Porta: er
Paloma Porta: er
Paloma Porta: maybe you would join us ?
Wol Euler: phone
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, especially since the guys are all gone.

--BELL--

Paloma Porta: well the experiment continues...roving reporter Porta
Wol Euler: back
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, welcome back.
Paloma Porta: Welcome back
Rhiannon Dragoone: I left you a message in IM in case I was gone when you returned.
Wol Euler: what I was going to say is that although I am often naked, and enjoy being naked, I don'T do it here
Wol Euler: because *I* would find that inappropriate
Paloma Porta: sensible
Wol Euler: the discomfort of others would make me uncomfortable, and unlike Rhi I'd rather put on clothes than leave
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, it also depends on your personal context
Paloma Porta: ya
Wol Euler: when I'm naked it is for pleasure, not as a political gesture
Paloma Porta: well i started in places that we empty of course -to get the feel of it...its a funny business!!!
Wol Euler nods.
Rhiannon Dragoone: I was a sim admin and was talking to the estate manager; we were off somewhere nakde, and she put her clothes on to go to the Commons. She said, she didn't want to be seen naked. because of her reputation. I said, 'well, so you're saying that it's not appropriate for you to be naked but it is for me?' And she replied, 'people expect you to be naked, Rhiainnon. But not me.'
Wol Euler: heheheh
Rhiannon Dragoone: And it's true; I can't put clothes on at my discussions, people would object to it.
Wol Euler smiles.
Paloma Porta: hahahah..quite a reversal
Rhiannon Dragoone: So I have to be naked, Wol; I have a reputation to uphold.
Paloma Porta: I got that once at osho 2 years ago
Paloma Porta: why are you not naked -you look soooo "natural"
Wol Euler: :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Paloma, yeah, I found it funny; and ironic--my freedom statement is now confining in a way.
Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
Rhiannon Dragoone: Some people who come here who know me would be shocked if i had clotghes on
Rhiannon Dragoone: They'd think I was personally compromised
Wol Euler: or being generous
Wol Euler: which is how I see it.
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, some would.
Paloma Porta: Welllll Rhi to be perhaps consistent - do as you see fit - upset them"" i don't mean that..i mean...continue as you wish
Rhiannon Dragoone laughs
Rhiannon Dragoone: you guys are the best
Paloma Porta: perhaps a clothed meeting...see what happens??
Wol Euler: :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: And I will see you both later; and, yes, I will be naked.
Wol Euler: bye for now, rhi.
Paloma Porta: huggs Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone waves and poofs
Paloma Porta: well there goes the brains of the outfit...lol
Wol Euler: heh
Paloma Porta: I am concernd with the hostility still - its just not my style....hence the pink hair and attempt to look harmless
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: and the smile AO :)
Paloma Porta: hehehe
Paloma Porta: ya..its quite nice i think
Paloma Porta: i reworked my shapes to smile when i can with changing skins
Paloma Porta: its just me - not a front
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: SL raises all kinds of really interesting questions about identity and character
Wol Euler: and where these reside
Wol Euler: until SL, I thought that my body was "me"
Paloma Porta: ...and the heels are a new thing...they may be a bit too sexy....but i love heels....formerly i was "skyclad"
Wol Euler: no such thing as "too sexy heels" :)
Wol Euler: I like the revolving gears
Paloma Porta: hehe ya
Wol Euler: have a look at the boots at Eshi Otawara's shop, you might like them
Paloma Porta: spiriuality..sheesh I am not my body - you should know - i feel completely separate from it.
Wol Euler: there are some by Eshi herself, and others by Mrs Schmidt which are more your taste I think
Paloma Porta: oooo
Wol Euler smiles.
Paloma Porta: Thanks 4 LM
Paloma Porta: :))
Wol Euler: yw

--BELL--

Paloma Porta: well i feel we have concluded a nice chapter for yr transscripts?
Wol Euler: yep :)
Wol Euler: it was an interesting discussion, and I'm glad we had it
Wol Euler: I too have to go, that phonecall was the boss summoning me to work
Paloma Porta: Thank you soooo much - its a wonderful thing...a drama free discussion with thinkers and clever peeps
Wol Euler smiles
Paloma Porta: np
Wol Euler: we try to be drama free
Paloma Porta: havva quick zoom in on the heels
Wol Euler: we try to disagree without condemning
Wol Euler: which is something foreign to philosophers :)
Paloma Porta: coommunication is an art
Wol Euler: and not a contest.
Paloma Porta: indeed
Wol Euler: great shoes :)
Paloma Porta: ya grim brothers
Wol Euler: I like Rhi, but she is so touchy, so quick to be offended by the slightest unclarity
Paloma Porta: ya she faces a lot of stuff daily remember -it must be a challenge for her to even recognise a nice friendly warm response sometimes!!
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: anyway, I must go.
Paloma Porta: yup
Wol Euler: take care, paloma, see you around
Paloma Porta: love you
Paloma Porta: see soon
Wol Euler: bye obs, enjoy your sunday
Paloma Porta: ty
Paloma Porta: go
Paloma Porta: huggies