The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey qt
Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you doing
Qt Core: hi Yaku, i'm quite good, you ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: pretty well, yes :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: did you follow the events around the endevour ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: or the wedding today :)
Qt Core: had to endure a little chat about the wedding at lunch as some female colleagues started talking about Kate's dress
Yakuzza Lethecus smiles
Qt Core: no one interested in the astronauts' one ;-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: well it´s the last shuttle start, but it´s sunday know when i heard it right
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sam
oO0Oo Resident: hiya Qt, Hiya Yaku
Qt Core: haven't checked the dates but yes, it's the ast
Qt Core: hi oOOOo
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey arch
oO0Oo Resident: Arch .. gtsy
Qt Core: while they are old i don't know if it is a wise move to not already have a replacement, on the other hand it show that/how Nasa trust to be able to cooperate with europe and russia for its need
Qt Core: hi Arch
oO0Oo Resident: is that more a trust in a scientific peer realm, over a political one Qt?
Qt Core: the second one, maybe i'm naive but i think that the forst one is well established
oO0Oo Resident: ty
Qt Core: *first
Archmage Atlantis: Top of my morning to ya, folks
oO0Oo Resident: :) Arch
oO0Oo Resident: and to you mate
Archmage Atlantis: *g*
Qt Core: Hi Zon
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Zon :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey zon
Zon Kwan: helo helo helo
Archmage Atlantis: oyyeaw Zon
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: One of the reasons I study religion and goventmentlal bureaucray is to under stnd wno we have geeand who we are
Archmage Atlantis: Ant persaps we will be
Archmage Atlantis: I certainly can't b to improfe m wping'
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i often wonder about our governmental system and the distribution of ressources
Yakuzza Lethecus: even when the subject of the last flight of the space shuttle came up before i had a mental link with lybia where all these hightech weapons are shown to the world
Yakuzza Lethecus: from drone´s to the french and european fighter projects
Yakuzza Lethecus: how do we use ressources in our society
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, never very pabish
Yakuzza Lethecus: i always hope someone brings something more pabish :P
oO0Oo Resident smiles.. what might be more Pabish Yaku.. that would help me..
oO0Oo Resident: i mean to say.. if you can describe what you mean by 'more PaBish?
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, clearing the mind a little bit to become a metaperspective of the own thoughts, well that´s one way how i try to put it in words
Yakuzza Lethecus: to see the own thoughts appearing and to learn to communicate those
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Good men do what they do to protect, bad men do what they do for pleasure.......and the sexist term men is intended.......still men learn what to do from their mothers, imo
oO0Oo Resident: interesting Arch.. motivations.. causes.. influences. And ty Yaku
oO0Oo Resident: @ Yaku.. helpful.. if i may rephrase for clarity, and to check.. one clears (intentionally) in a way, and allows for a 'metaperspective' possibility, that can in turn give voice to 'own thoughts'? then I wonder.. what kinds of phenomena or thoughts perhaps, might be NOT be 'own thoughts'? In other words, what is cleared away?
oO0Oo Resident: *might not be own thoughts
Yakuzza Lethecus: is there something as own thoughts i wonder very often ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i used to think that we are constantly influenced by our environment, i think in words still those words are given in a more or less elaborated code according to the social environent
Archmage Atlantis: I agree, we are products of our environment
Archmage Atlantis: Yet
Zon Kwan: nods..where do thoughts arise from
Zon Kwan: do i make thme arise
Archmage Atlantis: We have the ability to transcend how we were created
Zon Kwan: or do they just foalt araund me for me to pick them up
Archmage Atlantis: It is what makes us human, imo
Yakuzza Lethecus: well that´s what makes the nature nurture debate so interesting
Archmage Atlantis: Those who are unable to transcend, dictatee, rule and demand
oO0Oo Resident: what would transcendence be like, or look like Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: A bit like PaB I think
oO0Oo Resident: :)
oO0Oo Resident: pabish?
Yakuzza Lethecus: well anything about our thoughts and perceptions is pabish from my point of view
Archmage Atlantis: perhaps, I am certain I have said enough on the subject
Yakuzza Lethecus: and pab itself got a lot of ppl who link these explorations with older traditions
Archmage Atlantis: I want to walk outside and see the garden and the insects
Archmage Atlantis: Blessings and Namaste to you all
Yakuzza Lethecus: buddism and other religious or less religious concepts who used to explore our mind and feelings in other historical traditions
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye arch *for the log*
--BELL--
Zon Kwan: bye Arch
oO0Oo Resident: also for the log: bye Arch, and ty
oO0Oo Resident: nature vs nurture.. from whence do thoughts come? who/what percieves thoughts? are the thoughts owned, personal or impersonal in nature?
oO0Oo Resident: hi Dash
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey dash
Qt Core: hi Dash
Dash Earthboy: hey y'all :)
Zon Kwan: dash
Yakuzza Lethecus: one of the elements is also in how far do we need verbal language to nurture our own thoughts
Yakuzza Lethecus: one might have a good ,,thought" but not the communicative means or the environment to elaborate or gain criticism on oneself
Zon Kwan: i think we have a need to express our thoughts somehow
Zon Kwan: words, painting, music, dance
Zon Kwan: to make it physical
Dash Earthboy: i used a similar explanation in a philosophical debate about the existence of God
Dash Earthboy: i found agreement from atheists that one could have an experience (with God) without vocabulary to sufficiently communicate the experience to listeners
Dash Earthboy: this was several decades ago
Yakuzza Lethecus: an example of what i mean can be ,,cognitive dissonance" we all know how hard to stop a habit can be i guess but like googling on ,,how to stop smoking" etc. might bring a lot of unprecise things, while being able to google for ,,cognitive dissonance" brings up a hole new layer to gain more precision on ,,which dissonance" and to find more precise information
Dash Earthboy: i agree Zon that it's important to me to share (make manifest) my thoughts/feelings
Dash Earthboy: i saw a good piece on google searches about how some info farms are capitalizing on such searches
Yakuzza Lethecus: but to use simple words and commen sense can also be a bad thing, like palin on wasting money on the research of fruit fly´s
Dash Earthboy: :)
Dash Earthboy: i wish there was a good definition of "common sense"
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: someone mentioned that at a science circle event
Dash Earthboy: not sure that something needs to be a habit to be "bad" or in need of remedial action ;)
Qt Core: have to go, bye all
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
Dash Earthboy: bye Qt
Dash Earthboy: be well
oO0Oo Resident: bye Qt
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, then there was also a ted talk on how we lack ,,common sense"
Dash Earthboy: it was nice to have a conversation that didn't include "royalty" today ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ha!
oO0Oo Resident: agree that 'expression' is somehow important.. but wonder about how necessary, or important it is to share 'thoughts', as so much of communication is happening non-verbally. do we desire to share 'thoughts' in proportion with how imporatant we have made linguistic means of knowing?. It seems all of what we think/say/do is a kind of expression and also our environment is expressing all the time too. And then where do 'i' and environment begin and end?
Zon Kwan: ah the princess is lovely
Dash Earthboy: let's keep it "common"
Dash Earthboy: for us commoners
Dash Earthboy: ;)
Dash Earthboy: if one is part of the environment, the ideas of "begin" and "end" are not quite applicable
oO0Oo Resident: common, could perhaps be that we all wish to be happy and not suffer? even persons who 'have' royalty?
Zon Kwan: i think we have a need to communicate..to connect on thinking and feeling level
oO0Oo Resident: ty, yes Dash.. so we take a reference of different kinds
oO0Oo Resident: are there other levels Zon?
Zon Kwan: yes
Dash Earthboy: my happiness is more aligned with "peace" than "lack of suffering" alone
Zon Kwan: but we were discussing on thougth level
Yakuzza Lethecus: especially emotions are a tricky thing to communicate i guess
Dash Earthboy: i believe some verbalization can interfere with genuine sharing of thoughts
Zon Kwan: we do it all the time
Zon Kwan: whe i sit on a bus i feel the feelings of ppl around me
Dash Earthboy: cool!
Zon Kwan: its mostly subconscious
Zon Kwan: but we all do it
Dash Earthboy: sometimes the feelings of others are not so tangible
Yakuzza Lethecus: well this form of empathy is then also used by ur own experience when you are able to relate to their sitiation
Yakuzza Lethecus: so we apply some unconcious hermeneutics there
Dash Earthboy: yah
Zon Kwan: no..but sometimes whe one enters a room wher eppl have quarreles..one can feel it in teh atmosphere
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, when i enter a room and the ppl ain´t greeting me i often wonder if i just created a self fulfilling prophecy because i might have been scared and didn´t come in in a relaxed and smiling way in which ppl appreaciate newcomers more
Dash Earthboy: since i arrived i've been having the experience of being a hazy mist/fog in the presence of well-formed images
oO0Oo Resident: agree.. there are such experiences.. some more gross, and some more subtle. Then it can be tricky to distinguish where the feelings come from... we project also our assumptions, our biases, and our own states of mind
Yakuzza Lethecus: as when i come in and am uncertain and stuckly eyballing everyone :P
Zon Kwan: nods
Zon Kwan: if we r angry..we project it to others
Zon Kwan: if we r empty..we can feel others
Dash Earthboy: you see me as "normal" and i am having less-than-normal experience
oO0Oo Resident: there seems to me to be a lot of 'estimating' and guessing going n, that is part of being human... a sense of refining 'meanings' and understandings... all the time
--BELL--
oO0Oo Resident: *on
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
Dash Earthboy: that kind of "estimating" and guessing is very common in our reading
Dash Earthboy: hey eliza
Zon Kwan: eöiza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :) I'm actually just passing through right now, but it is good to see you...
Dash Earthboy: you too ;)
oO0Oo Resident: hey hi Eliza.. nice to see you passing
Dash Earthboy: i think such guessing and estimating goes on at a biological/molecular level too
oO0Oo Resident: yes, it feels like a way, a style in which 'life' seeks to continue
Dash Earthboy: jazz
oO0Oo Resident: sort of open ended to ensure the adaptability of unknown circumstances
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
oO0Oo Resident: to further life itself
Dash Earthboy: or else go the way of the dinosaur
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol i better don´t say it´s ,,idiosyncratic"
Yakuzza Lethecus: haha
Dash Earthboy: ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i noticed that i am generally not very precise in the way i am thinking and writing, having terms partially helps me to train gaining more focus
Yakuzza Lethecus: while some ppl whom are good in terms don´t have a problem of using simpler words while not loosing focus at all
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a bit weired, since using terms not well percieved often even worse if you use em imprecise
Dash Earthboy: in forums like this KISS is a mantra
oO0Oo Resident: there is a magic to clear explaining, that seems to come from what? Knowing the subject, the terms, and also the possble ways others may come to these?
oO0Oo Resident: *possible
Dash Earthboy: certainly
Dash Earthboy: when one programs computers in several prg languages, one needs to keep the expected users in mind
oO0Oo Resident: and languages, like life.. tend to stretch beyond rules.. for their continuance also
oO0Oo Resident: mhmm Dash
Dash Earthboy: yes, C evolves into C++
Dash Earthboy: :)
oO0Oo Resident: becoming famliar with energies, feelings, perceptions, emotions, and concepts... a big journey to be able to share with others
Dash Earthboy: but i've noticed conversational languages may pick up idiomatic expressions that interfere with understanding as they violate certain rules/definitions
oO0Oo Resident: lost and found in translation
oO0Oo Resident: functioning in other ways Dash? but unhelpful in a way?
oO0Oo Resident: we assume different set of rules?
Dash Earthboy: yes, usually the terms are used to keep others out and exclude them from the conversation
oO0Oo Resident: assembley languages? ;)
Dash Earthboy: hehe
Zon Kwan: gtg, bye
Dash Earthboy: naw, that's like Latin
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye zon
Dash Earthboy: bye Zon
Yakuzza Lethecus: i also should go to bed
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
Yakuzza Lethecus: was interesting tonight
Dash Earthboy: yeah I best be off too
oO0Oo Resident: bye Zon.. sadly me too tc all :)
Dash Earthboy: gtcu