2011.04.13 07:00 - The Sound of Distance Vanishing

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, joined by Eden, Eos, Yakuzza, Hokon, Zen, Bleu, Boxy, & Riddle. In the middle of the session we had a griefer visit and were all ejected, but didn't miss too many beats and most continued the session...

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Korel! :))
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: Heya.
Eliza Madrigal: :) How is your day?
Korel Laloix: Sorry... on and off.
Korel Laloix: Good class this morning... just waiting for my next one to start.
Sartre Placebo: good morning
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, and hello Sartre (ltns) ;-)
Korel Laloix: Been busy though... will be so happy when this week is over.
Korel Laloix: Heya.
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to start the day with a good class...
Sartre Placebo: .
Eliza Madrigal: When is your next break, Korel?
Korel Laloix: Got a test and a paper back.... did very well on both.
Korel Laloix: The summer.
Korel Laloix: A few more weeks.
Eliza Madrigal: ah, little while yet... Congratulations on the positive feedback
Korel Laloix: This is proving to be a tough semester.
Korel Laloix: But I thought it would be.
Eliza Madrigal: so ready for that then...
Eliza Madrigal: will feel satisfying to finish I imagine
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
Sartre Placebo: hey eos
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden, and Hokon :)
Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza, sartre, korel, hokon, eden
Sartre Placebo: hello eden, hokon
Eliza Madrigal: Lovely to see you all, bright and early!
Hokon Cazalet: looks like i logged in just in time =)
Eos Amaterasu: our love keeps liftin' us
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Korel Laloix smiles
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Eden Haiku: Eliza, hi :) hello Sartre, Eos, Hokon, Korel:)
Eliza Madrigal: And Hello Bleu!
Hokon Cazalet: ☻
Sartre Placebo: morning bleu
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bleu
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: For later, for those who haven't seen it, Riddle shared a TED talk and link...
Eden Haiku: I'm crashing....I think...
Eliza Madrigal: just wonderful...
Bleu Oleander: saw it ... really nice!
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.ted.com/talks/eric_whitac...es_strong.html
Eden Haiku: Oh no, local chat reappeared)
Eliza Madrigal: Welcome, Eden :)
Eden Haiku: Oh yes, this global choir is SOOO wonderful. Art of Being as you said Eos :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe

Eos Amaterasu: very much feels like play as being in a gregorian chant sort of way, with faces wrapped around nodes in different parts of the world, sonically presencing....
Eos Amaterasu: (I'll write the liner notes :-)
Eliza Madrigal: it changes the very meaning of distance
Eliza Madrigal: to hear something like that
Eos Amaterasu: art of presence together
Bleu Oleander: so does sl ... distance vanishes
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I still marvel to think of where we are all supposedly situated :)

Eos Amaterasu listens for a madrigal....
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: "come again, true love doth now invite.."
Eliza Madrigal: (sings) hehe
Eden Haiku: ;) in voice Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: :) hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: The pause approacheth...
Eden Haiku: teasing you :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Eliza Madrigal: does someone have an idea for framing the 90 seconds?
Eliza Madrigal: One question I've been asking is "what does it mean to 'find' one's voice?"
Eden Haiku: The true sound of one's being?
Bleu Oleander: it's in preference .... hehe, sorry :)
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, what a wonderful thought to pause with, Eden...

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: meep!

Eden Haiku: And that sound connects with the whole sound, like in the global choir.

Eliza Madrigal: :) Hi Alfred
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Eden Haiku: meep meep Boxy :))
Bleu Oleander: hey boxy
Alfred Kelberry: nice kimono, eden :)
Eliza Madrigal: the whole sound... yes...
Eos Amaterasu: great connection, Eden!

Eos Amaterasu: we are temporarily being sung....

Eos Amaterasu: hi boxy
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Eden Haiku: Thnaks Alf. Got the free kimono during the festivities, at the Kabuki's place :)
Hokon Cazalet: box =)
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that place has a rather annoying bell that rings like every 20 sec :)
Eliza Madrigal: =P~
Eliza Madrigal: so interesting, finding one's voice and coming into one's own have the same sensibility... openness
Eliza Madrigal: connection
Eos Amaterasu: allowing
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Eliza Madrigal: Being sung...
Eliza Madrigal: Did you see Riddle's video Boxy?
Eliza Madrigal: the choir?
Eden Haiku: getting in touch with oneself, at the deepest level
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i have before
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eden Haiku: where we are all connected with all there is
Korel Laloix: Off to class... ciao all.
Eos Amaterasu: ciao Korel!
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Korel :)
Sartre Placebo: bye korel
Bleu Oleander: bye Korel
Eden Haiku: Bye Korel :)

Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking about what Sun described about the feeling of openness in playing music in that Indian cafe in Hungary... no teaching/learning but rather this free flowing...
Eliza Madrigal: each voice
Eliza Madrigal: instrument
Eliza Madrigal: and yet wonderful to have teachers who can play
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eos Amaterasu: edu : lead out
Eden Haiku: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: lead out...?
Eos Amaterasu: bring out that which is intrinsic but maybe hidden
Eos Amaterasu: tease out
Eos Amaterasu: coax
Eos Amaterasu: cajole
Eos Amaterasu: trick
Eos Amaterasu: flip
Eliza Madrigal: :)) hehehe
Eos Amaterasu: reflect
Eos Amaterasu: harmonize
Eos Amaterasu: counter-harmonize

Eliza Madrigal: sounds very celebratory
Eliza Madrigal: we're approaching another pause...
Eden Haiku: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: suggestions? or perhaps: Eden Haiku: where we are all connected with all there is
Eden Haiku: Ah, being one, yes :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: :) Hi Zen, saved you a seat
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi All
Alfred Kelberry: zen-san :)
Eos Amaterasu: thnx all, must go, bye!
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Eos :) Nice to see you this morning
Bleu Oleander: bye Eos
Sartre Placebo: bye eos
Zen Arado: bye Eos
Hokon Cazalet: bye eos =)
Sartre Placebo: hey zen
Eden Haiku: Bye Eos :) Hello Zen :)))

Zen Arado: V2 is strange lately
Eden Haiku: Did you feel the connectiuon with all there is Eliza? :))
Eliza Madrigal: Would anyone like to shareabout the 90 second pause and 'being one' :)
Zen Arado: keep having to download new viewers and updates
Eliza Madrigal: YES Eden!
Zen Arado: (sorry for being mndane )
Eliza Madrigal: I looked out the window and everything is green and dewy... very soft....
Eliza Madrigal: :) not at all Zen
Eliza Madrigal: the softness blurred all th boundaries...

Eden Haiku: Felt being one with not feeling one with my sister , still, 3 years later :(

Alfred Kelberry: i've heard an interesting thought today: when you're proficient at something, you can do it without thinking about it. but when you try to exert conscious control into what's ought to be subconscious, you disrupt the inner workings of your brain.

Eliza Madrigal: ((((((((Eden)))))))))
Eliza Madrigal: Oh :(
Eliza Madrigal: that happens sometimes doesn't it... that when we stop to notice connection we also see places out of sync...
Eden Haiku: Conflicts are glitches in the beautiful global choir ;(
Eden Haiku: Have to dive real deep, underneath all conflicts I guess :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) to timeless time
Alfred Kelberry: diving is escaping
Eden Haiku: Yes, Eliza, out if sync seems more obvious then ...
Alfred Kelberry: conflicts will still be there
Eliza Madrigal: not necessarily Alfred...
Zen Arado: we have to live with the polarities of life I'm realizing
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Eliza Madrigal: there are times to dig so deep til you reach openness
Alfred Kelberry: one has to resolve them
Eliza Madrigal: sit under the tree stubbornly :)
Eden Haiku: BUt, deep down, I know my sister is a Being of light, as we all are. I just don't feel it :))
Zen Arado: we can't stay in a deep awareness state all the time
Zen Arado: we have to cross the road

Eliza Madrigal: perhaps it isn't a state, deep awareness....
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps disconnection is the state we keep going into
Alfred Kelberry: deep or not, it won't help the other party
Alfred Kelberry: hi, XXXX :)
Eden Haiku: How to you resolve conflicts yourself Alfred?
 

      Here we were very rudely interrupted by a griefer:

Eliza Madrigal: Hello ... you're welcome to sit with us,
Eliza Madrigal: but if you've come to disrupt I'll have to ask you to leave
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Hokon, were others knocked off SL as well?


       The griefer using voice is burping and sneering (yes I could hear that, =P~), and when I try to click him to eject seems to have a shield. We are all thrown offline!

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey
Eliza Madrigal: that was very strange...
Yakuzza Lethecus: i saw some other guy when i tried to log on with sartre
Eliza Madrigal: I'll report him, but not much else I could do
Eliza Madrigal: we had a griefer
Eliza Madrigal: and he seemed to be able to wreak havok... I was booted off
Eliza Madrigal: then others disappeared
Eliza Madrigal: we had a full group before!

Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i also got suddenly kicked out on both viewers
Eliza Madrigal: I tried to eject him but each time I was knocked offline

Eliza Madrigal: darn, I really wanted to eject him
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: i was with sartre here and on another with yakuzza, or actually tried to get media to work there with viewer 2
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: but both viewers crashed
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb zen

Eliza Madrigal: we were having quite a conversation, about disconnection ...
Eliza Madrigal: HI Zen, did you try to eject the griefer as well?
Yakuzza Lethecus: there is some chillando goma thing here ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: help
Zen Arado: was about to..
Zen Arado: but got logged off
Eliza Madrigal: yes me too
Eliza Madrigal: it seemed related
Eliza Madrigal: never had that happen before
Zen Arado: and my computer was playing a tune
Eliza Madrigal: WB Hokon
Zen Arado: I had to reboot to get rid of it
Hokon Cazalet: ty my pc lagged horribly
Zen Arado: wb Hokon

Eliza Madrigal: he was a serious griefer...
Hokon Cazalet: i had to kill sl viz ctl+alt+del
Hokon Cazalet: oh =(
Eliza Madrigal: better watch the computer closely
Zen Arado: how did he get a tune to play on my computer when I ws logged out of SL?
Yakuzza Lethecus: what´s this chillando goma ?
Hokon Cazalet: oh sl sometimes takes a while for the sounds to die
Eliza Madrigal: no idea Yaku... where are you seeing that?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu, WB
Yakuzza Lethecus: chillando goma: Chat Commands: [07:46] chillando goma: on | off = Turn song and animation on/off [07:46] chillando goma: anim | anim off = Turn only animation on/off (six | six only off = Turn animation on / off) [07:46] chillando goma: song | song off = turn only song on/off
Hokon Cazalet: when ive crashed (many times i crash) sl sounds will play for up to a minute
Zen Arado: it's an animatin
Eliza Madrigal: that's true Hokon, sometimes I continue to hear voice even after crashing
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb bleu
Hokon Cazalet: yeah esp voice, it has its own mini-program
Bleu Oleander: crashed :(
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, so strange not to be able to eject him
Yakuzza Lethecus: i even crashed onces but voice run further persistantly
Eliza Madrigal: we all did Bleu
Bleu Oleander: oh ok
Eliza Madrigal: wondering if it has to do with the griefer
Zen Arado: how did he do that?
Bleu Oleander: that's happened a few times recently
Yakuzza Lethecus: we had 2 disconnects the other days before as well
Zen Arado: seems he ejected us
Hokon Cazalet: sl sounds will just continue to play like that during crashes, dunno why
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Yakuzza Lethecus: on monday i was kidding that storm did it
Eliza Madrigal: that's what it felt like to me....
Eliza Madrigal: I am often booted, but this was different
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
Yakuzza Lethecus: we always lost everyone in the sim

Bleu Oleander: how could he do that?
Hokon Cazalet: =(
Hokon Cazalet: there's many griefer tools that can crash sims

Eliza Madrigal: wondering... but he seemed like he knew what he was doing
Eliza Madrigal: maybe another 'learning opportunity'

Eliza Madrigal: but I regret that someone was able to disrupt a sensitive moment
Hokon Cazalet: yeah thats really obnoxious =(
Eliza Madrigal: oddly, it speaks to what we were discussing ...
Bleu Oleander: we should file a report
Eliza Madrigal: including disonnection in connection
Eliza Madrigal: yes I will...
Eliza Madrigal: but will talk to Storm first
Zen Arado: XXXX...something
Eliza Madrigal: his whole name will be in the log
Hokon Cazalet: XXXX (name of griefer) 
Eliza Madrigal: ah, thanks
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Yakuzza Lethecus: of course a 1 day old account
Hokon Cazalet: probably been banned before then
Eliza Madrigal: some use their voices for disruption
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I'm sure
Zen Arado: yeh they just take a new av
Eliza Madrigal: :) its his way of being heard, of connecting...
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Eliza Madrigal: :( Eden didn't sign back on... but let's wave through the log
Eliza Madrigal: :::::: waves to Eden :::::::::
Eliza Madrigal: griefer or no griefer you are heard :))
Zen Arado: Hey!
Hokon Cazalet: =)
 

               We bounce back:

Hokon Cazalet: lol, had a griefer in rl, a cat stealing stuff out of my room =P
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: how?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am off for dinner for a while
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Yaku
Hokon Cazalet: oh i have some legos on the floor, i showed him once the joy of playing with legos, now he steals them from my room
Yakuzza Lethecus: hheeh not that late :)
Zen Arado: bon appetit Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: smart cat!
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Hokon Cazalet: bye yakuzza =)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe yup
Eliza Madrigal: Oh I love legos
Hokon Cazalet: me too =)
Eliza Madrigal: the pets of Pab owners are definitely in on what's going on
Bleu Oleander: have to go .... take care everyone
Eliza Madrigal: they're like 'who owns who'
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Zen Arado: bye Bleu
Hokon Cazalet: its funny too, i told him no several times, wouldnt stop lol

Eliza Madrigal: ah, should have asked Yaku about using his voice session for music sometimes

Hokon Cazalet: =)
Eliza Madrigal: :) cats pretend they don't understand 'no'
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Hokon Cazalet: my cats definitely play with being =)
Eliza Madrigal: being played by Being
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: think they play with us
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have cats as well... the outdoor one who has caused so much trouble looks like Bella in the pub
Zen Arado: manipulate us into feeding them

--BELL--

Zen Arado: then they just lie around
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :))) yes, or whine all night then go back to bed just when you are up
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Zen Arado: they just 'be' themselves and we love them for it
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Zen Arado: and we have to try to please everyone all the time
Zen Arado: or is that what we do?
Eliza Madrigal: right... this is what I was saying... that thinking...that we are disconnected, is like a false default
Eliza Madrigal: or we might ask if it is anyway
Hokon Cazalet: brb rl for a few minutes
Eliza Madrigal: if we're trying to please, we're starting with feeling disconnected?
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: we feel separate
Eliza Madrigal: so we're already in a fantasy
Eliza Madrigal: an escape

Zen Arado: tim freke
Zen Arado: was reading him lately
Eliza Madrigal: oh, that quote you shared of his in retreat was lovely
Eliza Madrigal: What does he say?
Zen Arado: http://www.timothyfreke.com/
Zen Arado: lots of interesting things
Eliza Madrigal: well, what were you tuning to mostly?
Zen Arado: like his idea of lucid living
Zen Arado: still re\ading the book
Zen Arado: was reading about his idea of death
Eliza Madrigal: ah, lucid living, YES
Eliza Madrigal listens
Zen Arado: that we go through stages from deep sleep to dreaming
Zen Arado: to lucid dreaming to deep awake
Zen Arado: and death is the next state
Eliza Madrigal: deep awake, nice
Zen Arado: the others were preparation

Eliza Madrigal: so he posits death as a state and a 'me' that goes through that?
Zen Arado: he talks about his experiments with psychadelic drugs
Eliza Madrigal: interesting...
Zen Arado: not a 'me' exactly
Zen Arado: only halfway through that chapter
Zen Arado: will read it again more thrroughly
Zen Arado: like his ideas of living with the polarities of life
Eliza Madrigal: we think what we see is people going somewhere
Zen Arado: we want to get to some super enlightened state
Zen Arado: but we couldn't function in the real world like that
Hokon Cazalet: back
Zen Arado: wb Hokon
Eliza Madrigal: wb Hokon :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Eliza Madrigal: but zen arent you assuming that real would be unenlightened in saying that?
Eliza Madrigal: I love this topic... so important to me... have been thinking about this with some of the advaita vedanta teachings, etc...
Zen Arado: it's kind of holding the two and using each one as necessary
Eliza Madrigal: some who become very 'spiritual' seem to stop hearing anything that seems unspiritual... I guess that's what you mean?

Zen Arado: I'm still reading the book anyway
Zen Arado: lots I just give up on
Hokon Cazalet: wb yakuzza
Yakuzza Lethecus: thx
Zen Arado: wb Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: :)) fun to talk through it as you go
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Ya
Zen Arado: I kinda skim books to start with though
Eliza Madrigal: I've really been thinking about this a lot, due to the time discussion...
Eliza Madrigal: ah, me too Zen :) I often read once quick then go back slowly
Zen Arado: could go back and discuss chapter by chapter

Zen Arado: maybe we need a book club :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: @@
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, we had such a project before :)
Zen Arado: not another group !
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Hokon Cazalet: !

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal grins and love's Hokon's animations
Yakuzza Lethecus: doing pema´s reading like stim´s reading once
Hokon Cazalet: hehe eliza =)
Eliza Madrigal: going through TSK was great, is that what you mean Yaku?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
Zen Arado: I'm not keen on a scientific approach to spirituality
Hokon Cazalet: brb potty
Zen Arado: it doesn't gel with me
Eliza Madrigal: I just finished reading it for a 3rd time a few days ago
Eliza Madrigal: I always feel slightly unhinged after...
Zen Arado: each to their own I guess
Eliza Madrigal: WB Boxy

Yakuzza Lethecus: gosh, maybe i have to accept the unhingedness :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: wb boxy
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Yaku
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes I think we do
Zen Arado: wb boxy
Alfred Kelberry: so, what do we play today?

Eliza Madrigal: aint so sunshine when she's gone....
Eliza Madrigal: only darkness every day....

Zen Arado: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: to fine meaning to things like ,,great knowledge" and alike is kinda hard, the whole language in the book is for me as a not much reading individual a minefield anyway
Eliza Madrigal: It is important to do the exercises I think
Eliza Madrigal: even when you feel silly or like you're 'not getting it'
Eliza Madrigal: eventually it gets you
Eliza Madrigal: or that's been my way of relating anyway :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but you don´t have 3 versions of the books yet with markings ? :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have 5 books...
Eliza Madrigal: one I keep in the car al the time
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Alfred Kelberry: what books?

               (sorry to miss your question then Alfred!)

Yakuzza Lethecus wonders about the comments of ur kids to that
Yakuzza Lethecus: honestly :)
Eliza Madrigal: for me it has been profound
Zen Arado: ha ha I notice Freke does a talk on the 'Enter Here' koan
Zen Arado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl0SC0GdjjY
Eliza Madrigal: :)) My girls fall in love with books too Ya
Eliza Madrigal: Oh thanks Zen

Zen Arado: SL has cut donw on my reading
Eliza Madrigal saves to desktop
Eliza Madrigal: It hasn't cut down on mine... it has changed it
Yakuzza Lethecus: through sl i started reading more
Yakuzza Lethecus: still not full books but, a lot more chapters and articles
Eliza Madrigal: hm, nods
Eliza Madrigal: less fiction for me
Yakuzza Lethecus: good change so far
Eliza Madrigal: except that everything seems like fiction now
Yakuzza Lethecus: and i don´t find time for gaming :)
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Hokon Cazalet: back
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb
Zen Arado: wb again
Hokon Cazalet: ty, i love your balloon alfred =)
Eliza Madrigal: well you can always shoot watermelons in SL Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: to satisfy gaming desires
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Yakuzza Lethecus: or lemmings :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i rather like to stay in touch with the communites there
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: do you WoW, Ya?
Yakuzza Lethecus: no, it was company of heroes for me, thats a real time strategie game
Eliza Madrigal: but with long term connections (relative to internet timelines)
Eliza Madrigal: ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, we had a funclan, they mostly play eve online by now

Zen Arado: I have never had any attraction for computer games
Eliza Madrigal: :) I used to play harvest moon with my kids
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but also other things, so the group is still there but i am not playing the same stuff anymore, i still have the voiceserver and the website tho
Zen Arado: I'm not a competitive type maybe
Eliza Madrigal: loved that... watering little radishes...
Hokon Cazalet: i typically play solo games alot
Eliza Madrigal: milking the cows, going on treasure hunts
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Yakuzza Lethecus: farmville, my sister played a german game called ,,wurzelimperium"
Yakuzza Lethecus: that´s kind of like farmville
Zen Arado: even crosswrod puzzles always seemed a lot of wasted mental effort to me
Eliza Madrigal: I don't go near facebook games, hehe... vacuum I can hear from here
Hokon Cazalet: crossword puzzles annoy me lol
Eliza Madrigal: Oh I love crosswords
Zen Arado: guess I'm too serious
Eliza Madrigal: been a while, admittedly

Hokon Cazalet: i love math problems =)

Eliza Madrigal: :)) Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Zen Arado: I suppose life is a game and a puzzle
Eliza Madrigal: odd duck, but thats fantastic
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: enough mystery there for me
Eliza Madrigal: wish I'd learned how wonderful math was when I was younger
Yakuzza Lethecus: hokon: games like myth ?
Eliza Madrigal: true, Zen
Hokon Cazalet: naw, mostly shooter games like half-life or deus ex

Zen Arado: yeh I liked pure maths
Hokon Cazalet: yeah i liked calculus more than physics, math is so clean =)
Eliza Madrigal: a teacher makes all the difference in the world...
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Zen Arado: Americams say math, British say maths
Hokon Cazalet: i wonder why
Eliza Madrigal: think the British is more accurate
Eliza Madrigal: and sounds more interesting too :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi :)
Hokon Cazalet: where can i get a balloon?

--BELL--

Zen Arado: Hi Boxy
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Hokon Cazalet: Yaaaaayyyyyyyy!
Hokon Cazalet: ty

Eliza Madrigal: hokon do you think phenomenology is 'clean' like maths?
Hokon Cazalet: it can be, sometimes it isnt though
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, considering that husserl was a lost mathematician
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Zen Arado: life is messy though
Zen Arado: maybe that's why we like math
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: (s)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe thats what I'm wondering... maybe the very attempt at cleaning or controling is just an upside down approach
Eliza Madrigal: which is why some kids turn off
Zen Arado: games are a tidied up version of life with nice clear rules

Hokon Cazalet: i sorta feel like phenomenology has a double-nature, on one side it is clean like math as it finds the essential structures of consciousness, but since it involves an analysis of living, it is also messy

Eliza Madrigal: so a false dichotomy
Hokon Cazalet: so i like phenomenology cuz for me so far, its been both
Eliza Madrigal: Nice, Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: philosophy is a kind of way of trying to reduce the complexities of kife to rules and grand theories

Yakuzza Lethecus: math is still my nemesis, i have to erace that part and write it new, get rid of the role of play as being a mathphobic
Hokon Cazalet: and unlike physics where the math models a world, the essential and "accidental" are united in phenomenology (i think)
Eliza Madrigal nods Yaku... to make room for a different or more complex story in some ways perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that's interesting too... using the accidental, factoring that
Hokon Cazalet: yeah philosophy tries to have a complete system of thought, why skepticism dominated alot in the 20th century =)

Zen Arado: even trying to make things clear is misrepresenting them I think
Hokon Cazalet: well things get altered in making them clear i think
Eliza Madrigal: so synchronicity has a place... and the 'great unknown"
Zen Arado: cos life isn't clear and is always changing
Hokon Cazalet: yup the great unknown is definitely part of the phenomenology musings i write =)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm really interestd in the topic...
Hokon Cazalet: me too
Zen Arado: wish I had time to read some
Zen Arado: pheno
Eliza Madrigal: yes would be great to read Hokon
Zen Arado: I bought two books
Zen Arado: both unread
Hokon Cazalet: yeah ive been lucky, been able to find a job and live with parents, gives me time to read alot in my self-study
Zen Arado: well read a bit
Hokon Cazalet: this fall though i gotta head back to school
Hokon Cazalet: hehe ty eliza, maybe ill share them sometime
Eliza Madrigal: well that's a wonderful privelege too :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'd love that, thanks
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: me too
Hokon Cazalet: !
Hokon Cazalet: hehe sure =)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: I did a philosophy MA
Hokon Cazalet: though i typically dont write with an audience in mind, so its kinda jargon filled lol
Hokon Cazalet: cool =)
Zen Arado: forgotten most of it
Hokon Cazalet: aw
Hokon Cazalet: yeah that happened with my spanish classes, took two years, forgotten almost all of it now
Zen Arado: wonder if it did me any good
Eliza Madrigal: I liked the varela book we read for a book chat with Eos a while back... definitely phenom but 'from life'... ie practical
Hokon Cazalet: cool
Eliza Madrigal: again the unfortunate thing about the wy many things are taught...
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Eliza Madrigal: heavy on side issues
Hokon Cazalet: yeah i try to avoid that now with my writings, i spent the past few years obsessing way to much on side issues
Eliza Madrigal: probably natural...when first getting 'information'
Hokon Cazalet: yup

Zen Arado: I got the feeling I was just going around in circles and paddling on the edge of a great sea of ideas

Hokon Cazalet: well alot is interconnected, easy to get lost sometimes
Hokon Cazalet: yeah ive had that before zen
Hokon Cazalet: thats why i like contientnal philosophy more than analytic
Eliza Madrigal: but if someone gets a taste of joy then maybe the other things come 'with'
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: it feels so nice and clear at the start
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: yeh me too
Hokon Cazalet: yeah i often feel like im bumping up against great ideas that are just out of reach
Eliza Madrigal: oh, like something is on too high a shelf?
Hokon Cazalet: hehe yup

Zen Arado: and somebody always finds faults with them
Eliza Madrigal: yeah, can't wear one's heart on the sleeve in those talks
Hokon Cazalet: yeah, though i think philosophy is a bit unrealistic at times, cuz you can find faults in all the great scientific theories, yet we dont toss them away
Zen Arado: ideas and criticisms of ideas
Eliza Madrigal: true
Eliza Madrigal: but it is a sort of game
Zen Arado: and criticisms of the criticisms
Hokon Cazalet: british-american philosophy (analytic) bothers me sometimes, it seems lost in debating too much
Hokon Cazalet: yeah critique ad infinitum
Eliza Madrigal: I love listening to christopher hitchens... though my 'spiritual' appreciation is something he would mock, heh
Hokon Cazalet: hehe

Zen Arado: I ma bouncing around too much in other people's ideas
Zen Arado: need to write a bit more

Hokon Cazalet: im probably gonna go to grad school in germany or something, my friend in grad school now is really not too happy with the style of teaching/philosophy
Zen Arado: crystallize what I think myself

--BELL--

Hokon Cazalet: =)

Eliza Madrigal: that's where we started, Zen, what does it mean to come into one's own, to find one's voice?

Hokon Cazalet: id do that
Eliza Madrigal: nice group of pab-ers in Germany :)
Hokon Cazalet: i always kept a log of my own ideas and musings, has helped me to keep a sense of my own thoughts all these years in study (its also fun to look back on my older ideas and reuse them)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: maybe we should all write a book like Pema
Hokon Cazalet: i wanna write a book someday
Zen Arado: yeh
Yakuzza Lethecus: and in germany the tuition is a lot cheaper then in the usa
Eliza Madrigal: I think so Zen
Hokon Cazalet: cool yakuzza
Eliza Madrigal: is it?
Hokon Cazalet: cuz im poor lol
Yakuzza Lethecus: as long as you won´t do it through an american university
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Hokon Cazalet: germany is where phenomenology was born =)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but right now we have issues at the university´s due to two years entering the universities at onces
Zen Arado: writing a philosophy dissertation helps you to be able to do that
Yakuzza Lethecus: they changed the highschoolsystem from 13 to 12 years
Hokon Cazalet: o
Yakuzza Lethecus: that made a double school leaving year
Yakuzza Lethecus: and they stopped the conscriptions that also brought a lot more students
Yakuzza Lethecus: university´s in germany are complaining a lot atm
Eliza Madrigal: all higher schools are...
Zen Arado: uni fees are up to £9000 per year in UK
Eliza Madrigal: so sad
Yakuzza Lethecus: in germany in some states free and in some states 1000€
Hokon Cazalet: wow
Yakuzza Lethecus: of coure lifeexpenses aren´t included :P
Hokon Cazalet: i doubt id get it for free, being a foreigner, but
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Zen Arado: cheap
Yakuzza Lethecus: in the uk foreign students can be paying more but i am not sure it´s like that in gemrany
Eliza Madrigal ponders how wonderful 'open access' and 'open source' learning are
Zen Arado: students here face large debt when they leave
Eliza Madrigal: and teachers who play and share
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, wonders who would still want to pay all those reduntant lectures
Hokon Cazalet: yup eliza =)
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Eliza Madrigal: you know Zen... just realizing.... I think I heard a freke talk years ago... I'd stumbled on a show called 'flowdreaming' but it was very 'secret'ish... somewhat intersting though
Zen Arado: intresting Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: the idea of the show was to go into a 'flow' and kind of imagine working things out in one's life, etc
Yakuzza Lethecus: zen, hokon how about ur both german skills ?
Hokon Cazalet: my german speaking skills = zero
Zen Arado: I'll probably go off him again soon :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) fickle
Zen Arado: I gave up again Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: or ruthless...
Zen Arado: started an Open University course
Zen Arado: just no time

Yakuzza Lethecus: there is a course at the goethe institut and it won´t be like the open sessions
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.goethe.de/lrn/duw/sdl/de7141552.htm

Zen Arado: yeh but too advanced for me Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: speaking of which.... nice to be here with you all so long today... many interesting talks in one session
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Eliza Madrigal: but better go
Zen Arado: yes
Yakuzza Lethecus: It´s for A2 level
Hokon Cazalet: aw
Hokon Cazalet: byebye eliza
Zen Arado: I better go get dinner
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now, thanks so much
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.goethe.de/cgi-bin/einstuf...tufungstest.pl
Yakuzza Lethecus: a little test for self cathegorization
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care eliza
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: boxy, you´ve been interested in german too
Hokon Cazalet: byebye eliza , nice shoes btw =)
Eliza Madrigal: :)) TY
Yakuzza Lethecus: so that could be interesting for you as well
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: I never got beyond greetings and introductory stuff I'm afraid
Hokon Cazalet: all i can say is du sprechie dutch nic var?
Hokon Cazalet: (i cant spell it, but i can say it)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, pema would say ,,yes"
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Yakuzza Lethecus: but we are speaking ,,deutsch"
Hokon Cazalet: oh ok i spelled it wrong badly lol
Yakuzza Lethecus: pema is speaking dutch :P
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Zen Arado: bye all
Hokon Cazalet: byeeeeee
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care zen :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: alfred ?
Hokon Cazalet loves her balloon

Alfred Kelberry: so...
Alfred Kelberry: the music session is over, i guess
Alfred Kelberry: yay! a few more minutes :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Alfred Kelberry: thank you, yaku. now the music session can be considered accomplished :)
Alfred Kelberry: cute elephant is here :)
Hokon Cazalet: im gonna log off, probably will be back later tonight (after work), have a good day all =)
Riddle Sideways: hi all
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye hokon
Hokon Cazalet waves
Riddle Sideways: bye Hokon
Alfred Kelberry: btw, i'm kind of here... afk
Riddle Sideways: still got party balloons

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: ah, thanks. i'll look it up :)
Riddle Sideways: look up what?
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, i gave a link to a germanclass before
Yakuzza Lethecus: this was supposed to be the music session after the pab session
Yakuzza Lethecus: still, none brought his instrument and i didn´t want to force it either even tho i have my guitar around
Riddle Sideways: just remembered and came to see
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.goethe.de/cgi-bin/einstuf...tufungstest.pl
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.goethe.de/lrn/duw/sdl/deindex.htm
Riddle Sideways: wednesday music is not in the schedule yet
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.goethe.de/lrn/duw/sdl/de7141552.htm
Yakuzza Lethecus: well i knew that zen and boxy have or had an interest in german to some extend
Yakuzza Lethecus: while hokon spoke about studying in germany so i borught that up
Riddle Sideways: german lessons would be wasted on this old dog who can not learn new tricks
Riddle Sideways: no offense little box doggy
Yakuzza Lethecus: well the old dog can still learn some :)
Yakuzza Lethecus smiles
Riddle Sideways: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: especially since you are an android old dog
Yakuzza Lethecus: androidog
Yakuzza Lethecus: do you have an ,,eat an apple" animation as well ? :)
Riddle Sideways: no,hmmmm
Riddle Sideways: someday need to talk bots with boxy, but not today
Riddle Sideways: phone should ring soon
Riddle Sideways: 3rd day that contract is not signed
Riddle Sideways: ok sometimes it does get nervious over money/jobs
Yakuzza Lethecus: but one of em got signed yet ?
Riddle Sideways: close to signing
Riddle Sideways: 4 out 5 signitures
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i will log off for now
Yakuzza Lethecus: cya soon
Riddle Sideways: ok bye