2011.04.24 19:00 - Surfaces and Depths

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

Pema Pera: hi Calvino!
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Pema .. good to see you
Pema Pera: same here!
Pema Pera: Quiet Sunday night, so far?
Calvino Rabeni: yes, it often picks up steadily
Pema Pera: like in a neigborhood cafe . . .
Pema Pera: and as soon as you spoke :-)
Pema Pera: hi Ewan!
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Ewan :)
Pema Pera: Good to see you again, Ewan!
Ewan Bonham: Thanks, Pema...and Cal..
Calvino Rabeni: I'm tempted to try the new "meadow" look ... how about it?
Pema Pera: sure!
Pema Pera: by all means -- I read about it, but haven't seen it yet
Pema Pera: was out of email contact for a whole week (!) while at the PaB retreat in Assisi, Italy
Pema Pera: oh, nice ! ! !
Ewan Bonham: How was that Pema?
Pema Pera: what a difference it makes, to sit in a meadow . . . .
Pema Pera: SL is really amazing, in its immersive qualities
Ewan Bonham: Ndding..
Pema Pera: and Ewan, as for Assisi, yes, a very special place
Pema Pera: hi Susan!
Ewan Bonham: listening..
iwandertoo Resident: waves
Ewan Bonham: Hi Susan...:)
Calvino Rabeni nods and waves
Pema Pera: I just mentioned that I came back to the real real world of internet, Susan
Pema Pera: I was out of cyber contact for a whole week, for the first time in four years
Pema Pera: I should do that more often
Pema Pera: it was a very relaxing experience
iwandertoo Resident: :)
Calvino Rabeni smiles ... I imagine it could be :)
iwandertoo Resident: where, what were you doing?
Pema Pera: perhaps once every few months?
Pema Pera: I was attending the RL PaB retreat in Italy
Pema Pera: in Assisi
Pema Pera: quite a magical place
iwandertoo Resident: :)
Calvino Rabeni: That sounds marvelous Pema
Calvino Rabeni: I like the idea of once a week "non-cyber" sabbath type day
Pema Pera: the landscape, the history, and . . . . the food was "out of this world" :-)
iwandertoo Resident: smiles
Pema Pera: what a nice idea, Calvino, a cyber sabbath -- on the seventh day thou shalt not read email !
Ewan Bonham: Lol...
Pema Pera: actually, I've been experimenting with trying not to read email before noon each day -- I'm succeeding about half of the time
Pema Pera: it already makes a big difference in quality to my day
Ewan Bonham: At first I would be confronted with my own trepedations of what I was missing etc..
Pema Pera: like a "tweet scale" version of a sabbath?
Pema Pera: a few hours each morning?
Calvino Rabeni: The idea partly is to reclaim one's deeper self from the trappings of "worldly" involvements, that is, functional and mechanistic thinking
Pema Pera: yes!!
Pema Pera: and Susan, thanks for joining us as a guardian -- just read about it, welcome!
iwandertoo Resident: many thanks
Pema Pera: hi Paradise!
Ewan Bonham: Hi Para..:)
iwandertoo Resident: waves
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya pema ewan ..susan cal :)
--BELL--

Ewan Bonham: Hi Lucinda..
Pema Pera: I've been thinking of you -- memories of our Malta retreat: I just attended the PaB retreat in Assisi, Italy, where Mick came as well -- Mick and I often reminisced about our Malta retreat in a somewhat similar setting, a year ago!
Pema Pera: Hi Lucinda!
Pema Pera: (you = Paradise)
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening Cinda :)
iwandertoo Resident: waves
Paradise Tennant: smiles yes was looking at pictures of malta this weekend .. :)
Ewan Bonham: Hi Steve..
stevenaia Michinaga: hi all
Paradise Tennant: how was assisi :)
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
Paradise Tennant: hiya stev gtsy :)
iwandertoo Resident: waves
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Lucinda Lavender: good evening cal, Pema, Susan, Paradise, steve,Ewan:)
Pema Pera: Oh, Assisi was great in many ways, such a special place
Pema Pera: and I just started to mention the food . . . clearly the best meals we've had in any RL PaB retreat that I can remember
Pema Pera: we had great food in Nova Scotia, last summer, but this was even better . . . .
Pema Pera: (plus with wine every lunch and dinner, Italian style :-)
Paradise Tennant: smiles sounds pretty yummy :)
Lucinda Lavender: very...
stevenaia Michinaga: yea food is wonderful in so many ways
Pema Pera: the place we stayed is an example of a new trend in Italian tourism
Pema Pera: it is called "agritourismo"
Lucinda Lavender: eating food of the area?
Pema Pera: loosely it means tourism to the country side where you get served the local produce
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: often from their own garden!
Lucinda Lavender: wine also?
Pema Pera: as far as herbs and main vegetables go
Lucinda Lavender: nods
Pema Pera: wine probably from a local winery
Pema Pera: not from the backyard :-)
Lucinda Lavender: such a treat
Pema Pera: they did have an olive grove
Paradise Tennant: tasty and full of rich italian sunshine :))
Pema Pera: so many of our conversations were conducted strolling between the olive trees
Lucinda Lavender: I like the mossy ground here tonight
Paradise Tennant: smiles at storm where ever he is :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Lucinda Lavender: curious what some of your topics were Pema
Lucinda Lavender: as you walked and talked:)
Pema Pera: oh, many . . . . let's see
Pema Pera: staying with the trees, we did some exercises/explorations that involved the olive orchard
Pema Pera: in which we went from sitting to standing
Pema Pera: considering ourselves to stand like trees
Lucinda Lavender: wb susan:)
Pema Pera: and in between the standing silent periods we sat down but then we tried to "talk as if we were trees talking to each other"
Pema Pera: continuing the same contemplative atmosphere
Pema Pera: hi Hokon!
Lucinda Lavender: :)...
Paradise Tennant: rooted in the now :))) swaying in awareness :)))
Hokon Cazalet: hiya
Paradise Tennant: hiya hokon :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Hokon Cazalet: ???
Pema Pera: actually, sitting here around the pond on grass rather than on marble makes a similar difference as being in an orchard
Pema Pera: yes, Para! :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Hokon, Steve !
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Pema Pera: thinking of your name, it was paradise in more than one way, from the food to the garden aspects :-)
Lucinda Lavender: imagine so!
Pema Pera wondering whether there was wine in paradise, or whether that came after the fall . . . .
Pema Pera: actually, it is getting close to lunch here in Tokyo, I have to get going . . . . great seeing you all (it is Monday here already)
Lucinda Lavender: Luci is remembering something about the egyptians and Beer..and it being pretty old
Pema Pera: yes, ten thousands years I believe
Lucinda Lavender: Have a great luch Pema
Pema Pera: thanks, Luci!
Hokon Cazalet: bye pema
--BELL--

iwandertoo Resident: waves
Pema Pera: bfn
stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy pema
Paradise Tennant: smiles and wasves
stevenaia Michinaga: was there a RL reteat that just ended?
Paradise Tennant: yes one in assisi italy :)
stevenaia Michinaga: are the pictures posted?
Paradise Tennant: hmm don
Paradise Tennant: t know :)
Paradise Tennant: but soon I would imagine
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Lucinda Lavender: that will be nice to see
stevenaia Michinaga: who else was there?
Paradise Tennant: pema . eos ..mic :)
Paradise Tennant: will get you the list
Paradise Tennant: retreats are kind of like camping
Lucinda Lavender: so happy to sit in a green place today
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, campfire conversations
Paradise Tennant: your first day you .. canoe .. run around set up camp and then when dinner is done .. and you are looking for your next activity .there isn't one ;) just the sky ..the lake ..the sound of the trees
stevenaia Michinaga: like this
Lucinda Lavender: yesterday my cat fell out the second story window...and hung by one paw but managed to pull herself up and get back in the window:)
iwandertoo Resident: and stars...
Paradise Tennant: heart attack
Paradise Tennant: smiles at iwandertoo yes big night star filled skies
Lucinda Lavender: nice camping image
iwandertoo Resident: :)
Hokon Cazalet ??? stars
Lucinda Lavender: moving outdoors
Paradise Tennant: no worst for wear luci
Lucinda Lavender: not at all
Paradise Tennant: your kitten :) will be shy of the window ledge
Lucinda Lavender: hoping
iwandertoo Resident: cats are amazing...
Hokon Cazalet: cats are awesome
Lucinda Lavender: i was amazed yes
Paradise Tennant: yes they are grace apaw :)
Lucinda Lavender: hanging by one paw!
Hokon Cazalet: if i got reborn and couldnt be human, i'd be a cat
Calvino Rabeni: I have a young one also, that seems to like sitting right through the fence from a couple of fierce-looking dogs ... while her litter mate wouldn't do that no matter what
Lucinda Lavender: claims some space...
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, druth :)
Lucinda Lavender: CAl do you have one or two now?
iwandertoo Resident: waves
Hokon Cazalet: hi druth =)
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Druth
druth Vlodovic: hi guys
Calvino Rabeni: 2 cats
Lucinda Lavender: yay!
Lucinda Lavender: hio druth!
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya druth :)
druth Vlodovic: what's the topic?
Calvino Rabeni: a favorite one .. cats
Hokon Cazalet: ???
Monarchy Republic: hi peeps :)
Lucinda Lavender: dinner for me...
Hokon Cazalet: hi monarchy (i like your name btw ???)
Hokon Cazalet: bye lucinda
--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya monarchy
Paradise Tennant: waves at lucinda ;)
Monarchy Republic: thankies ...got good vibes instantoniously :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Monarchy ... welcome to sit in .. we do tell visitors, the conversation here is recorded during these meetings.
Calvino Rabeni: we have a web site at http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
Monarchy Republic: no problem :) ..i only try to put good vibrations in the ether ..they are here for quite a long time ..whispers ;)
Monarchy Republic: whispers ..yes ..i read about Kira ..i know the Goekna too
druth Vlodovic: the goekna?
Monarchy Republic: SN Goekna ..Visipanna retreats
Hokon Cazalet: brb
Monarchy Republic: hb Hokon - whispers
druth Vlodovic: shh!
druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure what we're doing, but we're doing it silently
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: proposals can change that too
druth Vlodovic: anyway, I started work on the calendar I asked about on sunday, you can look at it and tell me what you think
Calvino Rabeni: Where's that, druth?
druth Vlodovic: I'm doing a calendar of events at PaB, it's on the wiki under "events"
druth Vlodovic: so far only one entry
Calvino Rabeni: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Events/Calendar
Calvino Rabeni: I like the non-googly classic look of it .. thanks
stevenaia Michinaga: nice Druth
druth Vlodovic: sort of a work in progress, you'll have to tell me if you want something included
iwandertoo Resident: thanks for doing this, Druth
druth Vlodovic: it's all just a trick to make people keep me in the loop :)
Calvino Rabeni smiles
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Monarchy Republic: its good to be loopy ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Saturday was the first warm bright spring day .. it seemed the whole city was out in the parks and cafes
--BELL--

Hokon Cazalet returns
druth Vlodovic: wb
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, night all
druth Vlodovic: 'night steve
Hokon Cazalet: byebyes
Calvino Rabeni: Good night stevenaia
iwandertoo Resident: waves
Calvino Rabeni: one of the coffee house topics was "who are our greatest living philosophers?"
Paradise Tennant: nite nite stev:) sweet dreams
Calvino Rabeni: afraid I drew a blank on that
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Monarchy Republic: nn
Paradise Tennant: hmmm good topic ...
Calvino Rabeni: maybe it's hard to tell until some history passed
Hokon Cazalet: yeah
Calvino Rabeni: but the man I was talking to said, Buckminister Fuller had inspired him to a career as an inventor
Monarchy Republic: the stone ;)
Paradise Tennant: would vote for george carlin if he were alive ;)
Hokon Cazalet: only one name comes to my mind, but i think he'll end up being a footnote, chalmers
Hokon Cazalet: hehe paradise =)
Paradise Tennant: hmmm one of my favorites too :)
Calvino Rabeni: so that seemed like being affected in a real way
Monarchy Republic: what is the most inspirational 'thing ' youve ever experienced ...not perso or idea ,,just the sense or mood of that thing ..
Monarchy Republic: like a sunrise ..etc
Hokon Cazalet: music for me
Calvino Rabeni: hmm good question :)
Paradise Tennant: blinking on it
Calvino Rabeni thinks:  person, place or thing ... ?
Calvino Rabeni: things have a lower status I guess
Calvino Rabeni: not sure if a building is a place or a thing
Paradise Tennant: hmm would have to say watching how my dad .. lived his life ... not him as a person but there was a grace that was very big there ...
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Calvino Rabeni: I've liked some desert river canyons quite a bit
Monarchy Republic: :)
Paradise Tennant: yes sometimes place is magic
Calvino Rabeni: with the life forms that live there
Paradise Tennant: smiles and quietly says thank you for the company and the conversation .. :) namaste my friends :))
iwandertoo Resident: waves
druth Vlodovic: have fun paradise
Calvino Rabeni: Good night Paradise :)
Monarchy Republic: yep ...theres people that inspire you and give ~YOU the confidence ...because they are inspirational people, but they are actually struggling too ..like a swan ....kicking like mad ...but looking serene on top :)
Monarchy Republic: nn Paradise :)
Calvino Rabeni nods at Monarchy
Calvino Rabeni: we do a lot of underwater kicking
Calvino Rabeni: the results are pretty marvelous
Calvino Rabeni: functional and aesthetic and kind to others
Monarchy Republic: its kinda fun to feel like water currents through the toes though ;)
Hokon Cazalet: actually i know what it is for me, but its not appropiate for a public audience (also can get easily misconstrued)
Hokon Cazalet: yup calvino =)
Hokon Cazalet: i like that image monarchy =)
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Yes Hokon.. I was thinking of some easily misconstrued unmentionables yesterday :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Calvino Rabeni: One definition of a friend, I have heard, is someone you can jump into the river with and know what happens under the surface
Monarchy Republic: the best way is to make them sound like an accident ..then you can deny responsibility ..gigles
Hokon Cazalet: hehe monarchy
Monarchy Republic: mind you ...i find i can do that without trying :s
Monarchy Republic: :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
druth Vlodovic: I have to go
druth Vlodovic: have fun all
Calvino Rabeni nods, take care
Monarchy Republic: nn druth :)
Monarchy Republic: i need to find a pillow ..peeps ..eyelids heavy ..so glad to come eventually ..and meet you peeps ...id be honoured if i could repeat it sometime ?
Calvino Rabeni: Come by any time Monarchy
Calvino Rabeni: well specifically, meetings are at 1 and 7 AM and PM every day
Monarchy Republic: ty :)
Monarchy Republic: have a great E ..Monday ;)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe you too =)
iwandertoo Resident: best to everyone.
Monarchy Republic: hugs
Ewan Bonham: Bye for now..and thanks ..:)
Calvino Rabeni: See you later, Ewan, take care
Calvino Rabeni: I wonder if my readling list shows seasonal variations or other trends I'm not aware of
Calvino Rabeni: or whether people of the future will "data-mine" their lifelong media habits and make something of the trends
Hokon Cazalet: ug facebook really sucks sometimes, trying to write out longer comments
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Calvino Rabeni: Facebook .. hmmm, .. it seems a little rusty around the fringes
Calvino Rabeni: Not as aggressive as LinkedIn at spamming one's "friend"-list
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Calvino Rabeni: Lately though I'm getting some fatigue from social-media site reading ...
Hokon Cazalet: yeah
Hokon Cazalet: i can see that
Hokon Cazalet: i try to avoid those sites as much as possible
Calvino Rabeni: it's tempting to respond to the idea or statement that is there
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Calvino Rabeni: but there's doubt in my mind whether it actually amounts to a "conversation"
Hokon Cazalet: yeah
Hokon Cazalet: ive noticed i do that in sl, and it becomes more people barking at each other (not in a mean way, just animals expressing themselves blindly)
--BELL--

Hokon Cazalet: i know freud is discredited, but the internet definitely exposes people's Id =)
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, well I know, that doesn't seem too meaningful, beyond the raw experience of doing the barking ... there doesn't need to be a record for all eternity in humanity's collective memory
Hokon Cazalet: lol
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: omg
Hokon Cazalet: people of the future will look at that stuff and go "wtf was wrong with people in the 21st century?!?!?!"
Calvino Rabeni: it's easy serial anonymity that seems to bring it out
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: and lack of body language and being confronted by an-other as a face
Calvino Rabeni: that is .. taking statements without the presense of persons
Calvino Rabeni: no relationships that last
Calvino Rabeni: therefore the interaction is just like random bumping together in a moment
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Calvino Rabeni: and the significance little more than on the level of shock value
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: i see that a lot at noob spots and philosophy house
Hokon Cazalet: its all shock value
Hokon Cazalet: (even though nobody is saying anything new hehe)
Calvino Rabeni: its kind of relational porno
Hokon Cazalet: lol
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: verbal porn
Calvino Rabeni: Even if it's somewhat intellectual appearing
Calvino Rabeni: for instance, I think the actor Charlie Sheen has serious mental issues
Calvino Rabeni: but his acting out and problems become just a spectacle
Calvino Rabeni: which is the attitude of the audience
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Calvino Rabeni: Almost a mob mentality
Calvino Rabeni: and even on an intellectual or humanistic social web site
Calvino Rabeni: it gets used in a certain way
Calvino Rabeni: it gets objectified
Calvino Rabeni: like just an object on which to hang some other statement the person wants to make
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: (hehe i was just writing about problems with objectivity on facebook)
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Calvino Rabeni: hmm, objectivity in what sense?
Calvino Rabeni: in some ways its a virtue, in others, a vice
Hokon Cazalet: oh that a proposition is true if and only if it corresponds to the facts, that subjectivity must be removed from all propositions to render them true; works well in the natural sciences, but i see a lot of problems treating objectivity more than an ideal or an appaerance of things, and treating it as a metaphysical concept
Hokon Cazalet: no objectivity would mean no consciousness, so rejecting objectivity completely isn't an option
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, or forgetting that humans are not objects
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: which is something that some are doing now, using things like neurology or neuropsychology as a way to treat humans as just tinker toys
Hokon Cazalet: when natural science isnt metaphysical
Calvino Rabeni: hmmm.. this would be interesting to pursue, .. unfortunately I hear the dinner bell.
Hokon Cazalet: hehe me too :??
Hokon Cazalet: i got turkey below
Calvino Rabeni: I think it's okay to correlate all those perspectives
Calvino Rabeni: but not let one dominate
Hokon Cazalet: well what i think is treating objectivity as a way to view things, as a mode of appearances; when its treated as something beyond appearances and as something metaphysical, that's when we get problems
Calvino Rabeni: thanks for the discussion, take care
Hokon Cazalet: you too =)
Hokon Cazalet: so id agree =)
Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
Hokon Cazalet: turkey!
Calvino Rabeni: Bye ( calvino heads toward the aroma in the air )
Hokon Cazalet: hehe