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2012.02.22 07:00 - War and Happiness

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    1. 1.  
      1. 1.1. Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I like very much here too :) Zen (zen.arado): yes it is comfortable place :) Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): next Sunday we meet to talk about hapiness, isn't it? Storm Nordwind: Even better when the lights are on! Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes, Xirana Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): which lights? Bleu (bleu.oleander): at noon slt Zen (zen.arado): I thought I would get away with no restart after problems the had yesterday Storm Nordwind: ?me has just lit the lamp on the table in front of us, and the candles to our right
      2. 1.2. Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I've put midnaight now ...wonmderful! Zen (zen.arado): ah nice glow Raffila Millgrove: sim was down i guess yesterday. i tried to come to meeting. but no luck. Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... and stars outside in the sky:) Storm Nordwind: 15 minutes or so to sunrise Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): have you prepared something special for sunday od we meet and talk about the works and our feelings related to haopiness? Bleu (bleu.oleander): we will all meet to talk about the works and have a conversation about happiness, yes Bleu (bleu.oleander): so many wonderful entries!! Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok :) Zen (zen.arado): it was a good topic Storm Nordwind has not prepared anything. Not yet at least. Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...great creativity as always!!! Bleu (bleu.oleander): ha ha Storm!! Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): no problem Storm..I was just curious:) Storm Nordwind: My only problem was stopping! Bleu (bleu.oleander): have you stopped? :) Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): stopping? Zen (zen.arado): you have 4 entries Storm? Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahhh I see :) Storm Nordwind: Well there was always another artwork I could have done... so yes I have stopped at 4 Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I must visit again...sure new works I have not seen Storm Nordwind: There are still 4 spaces Bleu (bleu.oleander): :) Zen (zen.arado): I like to wait until the night Storm Nordwind: I visit at least twice a day in case I need to label new exhibits Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahhh then you get more and more inspiration and that's why you must dstop a little :) Storm Nordwind chuckles Zen (zen.arado): happiness is a slippery concept i find Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :) Storm Nordwind: Slippery? Zen (zen.arado): think I know what it is until I think about it Zen (zen.arado): know vaguely Storm Nordwind: And when you don't think about it? :) Bleu (bleu.oleander): probably true about most things :) Zen (zen.arado): yeh Zen (zen.arado): it is a kind of self judgement Zen (zen.arado): am I happy atm? Zen (zen.arado): not sure Zen (zen.arado): just am what I am Zen (zen.arado): maybe it is associated with a peak? Zen (zen.arado): of emotion? Storm Nordwind: I don't think it is for me Zen (zen.arado): not our normal 'ok' state? Raffila Millgrove: is happiness a little "higher" than normal state? Raffila Millgrove: little more.. joy in it? Zen (zen.arado): lie a feeling of contentment is my 'ok' state Zen (zen.arado): yes Raffi Bleu (bleu.oleander): many different concepts of happiness Zen (zen.arado): on the way to blissful ecstasy? Raffila Millgrove: i think contented/calm..is my normal state and happiness a little step up.. a little rush of pleasure feeling. Zen (zen.arado): yes...associated often with pleasure Bleu (bleu.oleander): hard to know if my feeling of happiness is similar to anyone elses Raffila Millgrove: what is your feeling of happiness Bleu? Zen (zen.arado): yes agree with that too Bleu Bruce (bruce.mowbray) is Offline Storm Nordwind: I find that behind the emotions, highs and lows, and the pleasures and discomforts, there is always a blissful happiness that I am. Bleu (bleu.oleander): different happinesses for different experiences Raffila Millgrove: yes.. kind of an umbrella word to cover a variety of feelings. Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I see it as a state more in general...and it can include moments of sadness...e Zen (zen.arado): so is our natural state happiness but we allow it to be marred in some way? Bleu (bleu.oleander): how would one know what our natural state is? Storm Nordwind: Perhaps Zen, in the same way that maybe our natural state is awareness and yet we filter and retsrict it. Zen (zen.arado): unhappy emotions like anger, jealousy, judging, etc spoil it? Storm Nordwind: I don't think they need spoil it Zen. Zen (zen.arado): well kind of cover it a bit Raffila Millgrove: i think "natural" varies from one person to next. i know a lady who is always sunny--just comes into room and is full of sunniness. like a warm day... Zen (zen.arado): I like to visualize being a new born baby Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): it depends if these emotions are predominant in your life... if so, then yes...they spoil hapinness Storm Nordwind: I suspect it depends where you awareness is. It's what you attch to and identify with. Going to awareness itself... Zen (zen.arado): yes there is maybe a genetic component to our natural disposition? Raffila Millgrove: we asked her once.. if her family was like that.. and she said. yes her dad.. he had the same happy state.. as normal. Raffila Millgrove: so we thought-genetic.. reinforced by nuturing. Zen (zen.arado): so do we have any choice about being happy then? Storm Nordwind: I believe we do. It seems so to me at least Bleu (bleu.oleander): blend of genetics and experience and environment make up our dispositions and personalities Zen (zen.arado): I tend to see it as natural but reached by subtracting thigs that make us unhappy Zen (zen.arado): or even just noticing thimgs that cause unhappiness Zen (zen.arado): meditation make me happier I find Raffila Millgrove: well you start out with a general .. disposition and it could be inproved or weakend, depending on environmental factors.. like home life or experiences at school etc. Zen (zen.arado): yes...environmental factors Zen (zen.arado): thinks of starving people in some places Raffila Millgrove: combo. genetic predisposition, triggered, changed.. closed out--=depending on how life goes. Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...they have not the option to ask themselves if they are happy Storm Nordwind: It sounds like a roller coaster that you have little control over. I don't think it need be like that Zen (zen.arado): also think of man in England who can only move his eyelids Zen (zen.arado): could I be like that and still find somethimg to be hapy about? Raffila Millgrove: i think we have control.. if we want to take it. people who've been in horrible situations have found ways to claim happiness for themselves. Zen (zen.arado): yes Zen (zen.arado): the human spirit is amazing Zen (zen.arado): and yet think of others who seemingly have everything but are unhappy Zen (zen.arado): Whitney Houston? Raffila Millgrove: these pbs shows where a family moves into another time... tries to experience life in another geographic space.. as pioneers or living thru wartime.. amazing how different they cope. some find such happiness.. others screw it up and make it even worse. Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): we are really complicated Zen (zen.arado): on the face of it she had such happiness provoking things one wuld have thought? Zen (zen.arado): we can only see ouur own case I guess Bleu (bleu.oleander): hard to judge the happiness of others Zen (zen.arado): and that is difficult enough Zen (zen.arado): yes :) Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... very difficult Zen (zen.arado): people were actually happy a lot of the time in wartime I think Bleu (bleu.oleander): really? Raffila Millgrove: yes they were. i know my family.. from journals i read and their stories.. were pretty happy doing WW2. Zen (zen.arado): the fear drew people together Zen (zen.arado): we are much more isolated nowadays Raffila Millgrove: they were busy rolling bandages. making victory gardens, selling bonds.. very cheerful ... Bleu (bleu.oleander): would hate to think that war brought anybody happiness Zen (zen.arado): strange isn't it Storm Nordwind: Doing things for others helped too. You had to do that to survive in war days. Bleu (bleu.oleander): couldn't we strive to help others in non-war times? Zen (zen.arado): people were less individualistic Storm Nordwind: Absolutely Bleu! Raffila Millgrove: even pionners in Midwest.. very isolated, they travelled long dsitanceds to spend time with other families.. seeking out friendships/sharing. Zen (zen.arado): I think there is a lot more loneliness nowadays Zen (zen.arado): especially in big cities Bleu (bleu.oleander): interesting new book by S. Pinker on violence becoming less "the better angels of our nature" Zen (zen.arado): and we are social beings Raffila Millgrove: i think so too. all the parents keep their children indoors where i live. i am so sad. i love sound of children playing. i don't even know their names or faces. i find it extremely upsetting and lonely. Zen (zen.arado): how do you mean Bleu? Bleu (bleu.oleander): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/bo...pagewanted=all Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... even in small villages things have chaged... but no so much as in big cities Zen (zen.arado): I had a great childhood playing in Belfast streets Zen (zen.arado): no thought of child molesters then Bleu (bleu.oleander): our era is less violent, less cruel and more peaceful than any previous period of human existence Zen (zen.arado): ah yes Zen (zen.arado): so maybe we cast a golden glow on the past? Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): maybe the difference is thaty now we can read the news of what is happening at every point of the world Astrid (aislay) is Offline Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): and that gives the sensation that there is a lot of violence Zen (zen.arado): yes Bertram Jacobus is Online Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): and we can see images too Zen (zen.arado): news is always bad news Storm Nordwind: We are the past that our grandchildren will see. I wonder if they will cast a golden glow on us. Bleu (bleu.oleander): depends on where you go for news Raffila Millgrove: interesting book. Thanks you Bleu Bleu (bleu.oleander): yw Raffila Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes, thank you Bleu :) Zen (zen.arado): so many died in World Wars too Bleu (bleu.oleander): another new book "the end of War" by J. Horgan is interesting as well Zen (zen.arado): do you think the human racewill ever become peaceful? Zen (zen.arado): if that is what he is intimating? Zen (zen.arado): (or her) Bleu (bleu.oleander): we can works towards that Bleu (bleu.oleander): both books are hopeful that we can Zen (zen.arado): the internet is helping I think Zen (zen.arado): in many sways Bertram Jacobus is Offline Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): we need optimistic and serious point of view Zen (zen.arado): increases dialogue between peole of different nations Leonore (leonorebeauty) is Online Zen (zen.arado): remembers how Germans were thought of in wartime Britain Bleu (bleu.oleander): instead of asking why war, why violence ... ask instead why peace, what are we doing right? Zen (zen.arado): good point Bleu Zen (zen.arado): why focus on the negative Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): very good one... :) Zen (zen.arado): news programs always seem to Zen (zen.arado): what this govt is doing wrong Zen (zen.arado): not what is getting better Raffila Millgrove: excuse me please.. rl intervenes.. have a great day everyone. Storm Nordwind waves Bleu (bleu.oleander): bye Raffila Zen (zen.arado): bye Raffi :) Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye bye Raffi...have a nice day! Raffila Millgrove: bye Bleu (bleu.oleander): be happy :) Zen (zen.arado): :) Bleu (bleu.oleander): I must get to work also Bleu (bleu.oleander): take care all :) Zen (zen.arado): kk Bleu Storm Nordwind: Bye Bleu Zen (zen.arado): bye:) Bleu (bleu.oleander): bye bye Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye Bleu...:) Zen (zen.arado): I am painting in the afternoons again too Bleu (bleu.oleander) is Offline boxy (alfred.kelberry) is Online Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): wonderful!... I look forward to see your new works!! :) Zen (zen.arado): best time for me Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): are you doing abstracts? Zen (zen.arado): trying to do more realistic abstracts Zen (zen.arado): find it hard to bridge gap between realistic and abstract Zen (zen.arado): bought a new book that is good Zen (zen.arado): Hi Alf :) Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hi boxy! :) boxy (alfred.kelberry): now what are you doing here? Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): we caht :) Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): chat boxy (alfred.kelberry): during the pab session! boxy (alfred.kelberry): :) Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): it has been a restart boxy (alfred.kelberry): ah, again? Storm Nordwind: It's a conspiracy Boxy. We are plotting. Zen (zen.arado): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Painting-Und...9925966&sr=1-1 Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): and we have moved here...and stayed:) boxy (alfred.kelberry): hmm, it went down again, storm? Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): boxy...you must update the globus Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): 2012 Zen (zen.arado): it usually does a restart on Weds boxy (alfred.kelberry): i can't, it's fro mthe previous anniversary party boxy (alfred.kelberry): blue did that, i think Storm Nordwind: Make a new one! Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes.... new texture! boxy (alfred.kelberry): maybe i will Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :) boxy (alfred.kelberry): anyhow, i got here to remove the ribbon for maintenance Zen (zen.arado): :) Storm Nordwind: Is it still timing out on dictionary lookup? Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): why? it does not work ? boxy (alfred.kelberry): dict timing is... expected :) Zen (zen.arado): need new bearings :) boxy (alfred.kelberry): it's the server infrastructure that's being upgraded Storm Nordwind nods sagely boxy (alfred.kelberry): sage is a nice plant used in clearing out "demons" :) Zen (zen.arado): nods uncomprehendlingly boxy (alfred.kelberry): hehe Storm Nordwind: Indeed. What do the newagers call it? Arisia Vita is Online Zen (zen.arado): sage is good for you boxy (alfred.kelberry): the girl i got it from called it sage :) Zen (zen.arado): the herb Storm Nordwind: an antihydrotic too if I remember Zen (zen.arado): wonders what that is Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :) Storm Nordwind: antihydrotics stop you sweating Zen (zen.arado): oh ok Zen (zen.arado): but you need to sweat Zen (zen.arado): ? Storm Nordwind: Ah... smudging, that was the sage smoke cleansing ritual. I'd forgotten the name boxy (alfred.kelberry): :) Zen (zen.arado): lots of old herbal remedies we are losing Zen (zen.arado): our ancestors knew Storm Nordwind: Cooks still know :) Zen (zen.arado): flavours yes Zen (zen.arado): losing plant species too Zen (zen.arado): and undiscovered remedies with them Zen (zen.arado): medicine was nearly all plant based not so long ago Zen (zen.arado): even aspirin came from willow bark or something Storm Nordwind: It did yes Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...but now they have discovered a lot of new things that also help to feel better...: Zen (zen.arado): and have side effects too... Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): always improving ... but I thionk we should take care of the knowledge about old remedies too.. Storm Nordwind: Eat up your curry. It may help prevent Alzheimer's! Zen (zen.arado): yes Zen (zen.arado): and my glass of red wine Zen (zen.arado): very beneficial Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I must go now...take care all and have a nice day!! :) Storm Nordwind: Bye! Storm Nordwind waves Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye :) Zen (zen.arado): kk bye Xirana :) Xirana (xirana.oximoxi) is Offline Zen (zen.arado): you too :) Zen (zen.arado): I'll have to paste this from my chat log Storm Nordwind: Thank you Zen :) Zen (zen.arado): oh it has time atamps Zen (zen.arado): and I changed at beginning Storm Nordwind: You can remove the time stamps in future. Storm Nordwind: Boxy could rush a quick UNIX utility together no doubt that would remove them Storm Nordwind: :) Zen (zen.arado): I changed in prefs at start when we came here Storm Nordwind: Ah Zen (zen.arado): but still in chat log Zen (zen.arado): saved chat log Zen (zen.arado): not local one Zen (zen.arado): so copied local chat and will paste that Zen (zen.arado): funny how tmestamps ceep back on again Storm Nordwind: A simple "cut" command in a UNIX script would remove them, but I don't have a UNIX setup here anymore Zen (zen.arado): I have unchecked that box many times Zen (zen.arado): not to worry Storm Nordwind: Maybe if you import into Excel, delete the first column, and then reexport it would do it? Zen (zen.arado): I haven't got Excel Storm Nordwind: Ah Zen (zen.arado): Word find/replace might work Zen (zen.arado): only a bit at the start has timestamps anyway Zen (zen.arado): if I use local chatlog Storm Nordwind: One moment... Second Life: Your region will restart in 5 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance. Storm Nordwind: I don't have timestamps enabled. I could send you mine by email! Zen (zen.arado): gosh closing down here too boxy (alfred.kelberry): ok, i'm off boxy (alfred.kelberry): you be good Storm Nordwind waves Storm Nordwind: WOuld that help Zen? Zen (zen.arado): it's ok Storm I have most of it unstamped Storm Nordwind: ok Zen (zen.arado): better go byee Zen (zen.arado): ty anyway ;)

     

    The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Alf Kelberry, Bleu Oleander, Raffila Millgrove, Storm Nordwind, Xirana Oximoxi and myself.

    Abstract paintings and scripts:

    Raffila Millgrove: Hello Zen
    Zen Arado: Hi Raffila
    Raffila Millgrove: just Raffi is fine.
    Raffila Millgrove: ty for the LM to your gallery. I enjoyed seeing your work.
    Zen Arado: TY for looking
    Raffila Millgrove: are the abstracts the newer work?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: got bored with traditional
    Raffila Millgrove: when you get back there. the one.. painting in the upper right.
    Raffila Millgrove: it seemed like it could be rotated 90 degrees.
    Raffila Millgrove: when you see it.. you will know. i think why i wondered about it.
    Zen Arado: oh?
    Zen Arado: can't think why
    Raffila Millgrove: the colors.. of sand.. and the blue sky color.. usually the sandy is on the bottom and blue on the top.. you know--a landscape. look at the colors in it.
    Zen Arado: unless I displaced something working on another painting
    Raffila Millgrove: well i am not suggested that it is hung.. incorrectly by mistake.. only that it works.. when rotated.. too.
    Zen Arado: oh an abstract
    Zen Arado: Hi Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hello both
    Raffila Millgrove: yes. on the wall where you have those abstracts. upper right hand painting.
    Raffila Millgrove: Hi Storm.
    Bleu Oleander: good morning all :)
    Zen Arado: it's funny but it can be difficult to know right way up for abstracts
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Bleu
    Zen Arado: Hi Bleu
    Raffila Millgrove: yes. that's why.. take a look. maybe you find that interesting idea..
    Raffila Millgrove: Hello Bleu.
    Zen Arado: often it isn't the same way I paint them
    Zen Arado: in SL you can hang them any way you want :)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Raffila Millgrove: well you can rl too. i liked it rotated.
    Bleu Oleander: hi Xirana :)
    Zen Arado: yeh but if you put hooks on you have to remove again
    Raffila Millgrove: oh true.
    Raffila Millgrove: lol
    Xirana Oximoxi: hello Bleu, Zen, Raffila, Storm :)
    Storm Nordwind: Hi!
    Zen Arado: Hi Xirana :)
    Raffila Millgrove: Hi Xirana. Raffi is fine.
    Zen Arado: artists concention today :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: ok Raffi :)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Zen Arado: covention
    Zen Arado: I'm having trouble with scripts for paintings again Xirana
    Zen Arado: at Sisi's place
    Xirana Oximoxi: oh! you mean at San Diego, Zen?
    Zen Arado: takes money ok ans splits it but no painting arrives in buyers inventory
    Zen Arado: no at Gualdo
    Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh I have no idea...I only followed the instructions at San Diego first time...
    Zen Arado: I told her about it
    Xirana Oximoxi: Storm is a magicien of scripts:)
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: uh oh
    Xirana Oximoxi: oh wow restart
    Zen Arado: go to Kira?
    Storm Nordwind: I would guess they would simply supply you with the script they wanted you to install
    Zen Arado: yes but it doesn't work
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes..we go to Kira caffe

    Region restart happened here so we moved to Kira. My chat logger was adding timestamps so I copied from local chatlog. We talked about Happiness as being exhibition and happiness:

    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I like very much here too :)
    Zen (zen.arado): yes it is comfortable place :)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): next Sunday we meet to talk about hapiness, isn't it?
    Storm Nordwind: Even better when the lights are on!
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes, Xirana
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): which lights?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): at noon slt
    Zen (zen.arado): I thought I would get away with no restart after problems the had yesterday
    Storm Nordwind: ?me has just lit the lamp on the table in front of us, and the candles to our right

    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I've put midnaight now ...wonmderful!
    Zen (zen.arado): ah nice glow
    Raffila Millgrove: sim was down i guess yesterday. i tried to come to meeting. but no luck.
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... and stars outside in the sky:)
    Storm Nordwind: 15 minutes or so to sunrise
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): have you prepared something special for sunday od we meet and talk about the works and our feelings related to haopiness?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): we will all meet to talk about the works and have a conversation about happiness, yes
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): so many wonderful entries!!
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ok :)
    Zen (zen.arado): it was a good topic
    Storm Nordwind has not prepared anything. Not yet at least.
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...great creativity as always!!!
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): ha ha Storm!!
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): no problem Storm..I was just curious:)
    Storm Nordwind: My only problem was stopping!
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): have you stopped? :)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): stopping?
    Zen (zen.arado): you have 4 entries Storm?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahhh I see :)
    Storm Nordwind: Well there was always another artwork I could have done... so yes I have stopped at 4
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I must visit again...sure new works I have not seen
    Storm Nordwind: There are still 4 spaces
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
    Zen (zen.arado): I like to wait until the night
    Storm Nordwind: I visit at least twice a day in case I need to label new exhibits
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): ahhh then you get more and more inspiration and that's why you must dstop a little :)
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Zen (zen.arado): happiness is a slippery concept i find
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
    Storm Nordwind: Slippery?
    Zen (zen.arado): think I know what it is until I think about it
    Zen (zen.arado): know vaguely
    Storm Nordwind: And when you don't think about it? :)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): probably true about most things :)
    Zen (zen.arado): yeh
    Zen (zen.arado): it is a kind of self judgement
    Zen (zen.arado): am I happy atm?
    Zen (zen.arado): not sure
    Zen (zen.arado): just am what I am
    Zen (zen.arado): maybe it is associated with a peak?
    Zen (zen.arado): of emotion?
    Storm Nordwind: I don't think it is for me
    Zen (zen.arado): not our normal 'ok' state?
    Raffila Millgrove: is happiness a little "higher" than normal state?
    Raffila Millgrove: little more.. joy in it?
    Zen (zen.arado): lie a feeling of contentment is my 'ok' state
    Zen (zen.arado): yes Raffi
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): many different concepts of happiness
    Zen (zen.arado): on the way to blissful ecstasy?
    Raffila Millgrove: i think contented/calm..is my normal state and happiness a little step up.. a little rush of pleasure feeling.
    Zen (zen.arado): yes...associated often with pleasure
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): hard to know if my feeling of happiness is similar to anyone elses
    Raffila Millgrove: what is your feeling of happiness Bleu?
    Zen (zen.arado): yes agree with that too Bleu
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray) is Offline
    Storm Nordwind: I find that behind the emotions, highs and lows, and the pleasures and discomforts, there is always a blissful happiness that I am.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): different happinesses for different experiences
    Raffila Millgrove: yes.. kind of an umbrella word to cover a variety of feelings.
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I see it as a state more in general...and it can include moments of sadness...e
    Zen (zen.arado): so is our natural state happiness but we allow it to be marred in some way?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): how would one know what our natural state is?
    Storm Nordwind: Perhaps Zen, in the same way that maybe our natural state is awareness and yet we filter and retsrict it.
    Zen (zen.arado): unhappy emotions like anger, jealousy, judging, etc spoil it?
    Storm Nordwind: I don't think they need spoil it Zen.
    Zen (zen.arado): well kind of cover it a bit
    Raffila Millgrove: i think "natural" varies from one person to next. i know a lady who is always sunny--just comes into room and is full of sunniness. like a warm day...
    Zen (zen.arado): I like to visualize being a new born baby
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): it depends if these emotions are predominant in your life... if so, then yes...they spoil hapinness
    Storm Nordwind: I suspect it depends where you awareness is. It's what you attch to and identify with. Going to awareness itself...
    Zen (zen.arado): yes there is maybe a genetic component to our natural disposition?
    Raffila Millgrove: we asked her once.. if her family was like that.. and she said. yes her dad.. he had the same happy state.. as normal.
    Raffila Millgrove: so we thought-genetic.. reinforced by nuturing.
    Zen (zen.arado): so do we have any choice about being happy then?
    Storm Nordwind: I believe we do. It seems so to me at least
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): blend of genetics and experience and environment make up our dispositions and personalities
    Zen (zen.arado): I tend to see it as natural but reached by subtracting thigs that make us unhappy
    Zen (zen.arado): or even just noticing thimgs that cause unhappiness
    Zen (zen.arado): meditation make me happier I find
    Raffila Millgrove: well you start out with a general .. disposition and it could be inproved or weakend, depending on environmental factors.. like home life or experiences at school etc.
    Zen (zen.arado): yes...environmental factors
    Zen (zen.arado): thinks of starving people in some places
    Raffila Millgrove: combo. genetic predisposition, triggered, changed.. closed out--=depending on how life goes.
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...they have not the option to ask themselves if they are happy
    Storm Nordwind: It sounds like a roller coaster that you have little control over. I don't think it need be like that
    Zen (zen.arado): also think of man in England who can only move his eyelids
    Zen (zen.arado): could I be like that and still find somethimg to be hapy about?
    Raffila Millgrove: i think we have control.. if we want to take it. people who've been in horrible situations have found ways to claim happiness for themselves.
    Zen (zen.arado): yes
    Zen (zen.arado): the human spirit is amazing
    Zen (zen.arado): and yet think of others who seemingly have everything but are unhappy
    Zen (zen.arado): Whitney Houston?
    Raffila Millgrove: these pbs shows where a family moves into another time... tries to experience life in another geographic space.. as pioneers or living thru wartime.. amazing how different they cope. some find such happiness.. others screw it up and make it even worse.
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): we are really complicated
    Zen (zen.arado): on the face of it she had such happiness provoking things one wuld have thought?
    Zen (zen.arado): we can only see ouur own case I guess
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): hard to judge the happiness of others
    Zen (zen.arado): and that is difficult enough
    Zen (zen.arado): yes :)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... very difficult
    Zen (zen.arado): people were actually happy a lot of the time in wartime I think
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): really?
    Raffila Millgrove: yes they were. i know my family.. from journals i read and their stories.. were pretty happy doing WW2.
    Zen (zen.arado): the fear drew people together

    Zen (zen.arado): we are much more isolated nowadays
    Raffila Millgrove: they were busy rolling bandages. making victory gardens, selling bonds.. very cheerful ...
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): would hate to think that war brought anybody happiness
    Zen (zen.arado): strange isn't it
    Storm Nordwind: Doing things for others helped too. You had to do that to survive in war days.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): couldn't we strive to help others in non-war times?
    Zen (zen.arado): people were less individualistic
    Storm Nordwind: Absolutely Bleu!
    Raffila Millgrove: even pionners in Midwest.. very isolated, they travelled long dsitanceds to spend time with other families.. seeking out friendships/sharing.
    Zen (zen.arado): I think there is a lot more loneliness nowadays
    Zen (zen.arado): especially in big cities
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): interesting new book by S. Pinker on violence becoming less "the better angels of our nature"
    Zen (zen.arado): and we are social beings
    Raffila Millgrove: i think so too. all the parents keep their children indoors where i live. i am so sad. i love sound of children playing. i don't even know their names or faces. i find it extremely upsetting and lonely.
    Zen (zen.arado): how do you mean Bleu?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/bo...pagewanted=all
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes... even in small villages things have chaged... but no so much as in big cities
    Zen (zen.arado): I had a great childhood playing in Belfast streets
    Zen (zen.arado): no thought of child molesters then
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): our era is less violent, less cruel and more peaceful than any previous period of human existence
    Zen (zen.arado): ah yes
    Zen (zen.arado): so maybe we cast a golden glow on the past?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): maybe the difference is thaty now we can read the news of what is happening at every point of the world
    Astrid (aislay) is Offline
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): and that gives the sensation that there is a lot of violence
    Zen (zen.arado): yes
    Bertram Jacobus is Online
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): and we can see images too
    Zen (zen.arado): news is always bad news
    Storm Nordwind: We are the past that our grandchildren will see. I wonder if they will cast a golden glow on us.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): depends on where you go for news
    Raffila Millgrove: interesting book. Thanks you Bleu
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yw Raffila
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes, thank you Bleu :)
    Zen (zen.arado): so many died in World Wars too
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): another new book "the end of War" by J. Horgan is interesting as well
    Zen (zen.arado): do you think the human racewill ever become peaceful?
    Zen (zen.arado): if that is what he is intimating?
    Zen (zen.arado): (or her)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): we can works towards that
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): both books are hopeful that we can
    Zen (zen.arado): the internet is helping I think
    Zen (zen.arado): in many sways
    Bertram Jacobus is Offline
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): we need optimistic and serious point of view
    Zen (zen.arado): increases dialogue between peole of different nations
    Leonore (leonorebeauty) is Online
    Zen (zen.arado): remembers how Germans were thought of in wartime Britain
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): instead of asking why war, why violence ... ask instead why peace, what are we doing right?
    Zen (zen.arado): good point Bleu
    Zen (zen.arado): why focus on the negative
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): very good one... :)
    Zen (zen.arado): news programs always seem to
    Zen (zen.arado): what this govt is doing wrong
    Zen (zen.arado): not what is getting better
    Raffila Millgrove: excuse me please.. rl intervenes.. have a great day everyone.
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): bye Raffila
    Zen (zen.arado): bye Raffi :)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye bye Raffi...have a nice day!
    Raffila Millgrove: bye
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): be happy :)
    Zen (zen.arado): :)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): I must get to work also
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): take care all :)
    Zen (zen.arado): kk Bleu
    Storm Nordwind: Bye Bleu
    Zen (zen.arado): bye:)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): bye bye
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye Bleu...:)
    Zen (zen.arado): I am painting in the afternoons again too
    Bleu (bleu.oleander) is Offline
    boxy (alfred.kelberry) is Online
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): wonderful!... I look forward to see your new works!! :)
    Zen (zen.arado): best time for me
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): are you doing abstracts?
    Zen (zen.arado): trying to do more realistic abstracts
    Zen (zen.arado): find it hard to bridge gap between realistic and abstract
    Zen (zen.arado): bought a new book that is good
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Alf :)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): hi boxy! :)
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): now what are you doing here?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): we caht :)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): chat
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): during the pab session!
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): :)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): it has been a restart
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): ah, again?
    Storm Nordwind: It's a conspiracy Boxy. We are plotting.
    Zen (zen.arado): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Painting-Und...9925966&sr=1-1
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): and we have moved here...and stayed:)
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): hmm, it went down again, storm?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): boxy...you must update the globus
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): 2012
    Zen (zen.arado): it usually does a restart on Weds
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): i can't, it's fro mthe previous anniversary party
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): blue did that, i think
    Storm Nordwind: Make a new one!
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes.... new texture!
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): maybe i will
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): anyhow, i got here to remove the ribbon for maintenance
    Zen (zen.arado): :)
    Storm Nordwind: Is it still timing out on dictionary lookup?
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): why? it does not work ?
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): dict timing is... expected :)
    Zen (zen.arado): need new bearings :)
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): it's the server infrastructure that's being upgraded
    Storm Nordwind nods sagely
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): sage is a nice plant used in clearing out "demons" :)
    Zen (zen.arado): nods uncomprehendlingly
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): hehe
    Storm Nordwind: Indeed. What do the newagers call it?
    Arisia Vita is Online
    Zen (zen.arado): sage is good for you
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): the girl i got it from called it sage :)
    Zen (zen.arado): the herb
    Storm Nordwind: an antihydrotic too if I remember
    Zen (zen.arado): wonders what that is
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): :)
    Storm Nordwind: antihydrotics stop you sweating
    Zen (zen.arado): oh ok
    Zen (zen.arado): but you need to sweat
    Zen (zen.arado): ?
    Storm Nordwind: Ah... smudging, that was the sage smoke cleansing ritual. I'd forgotten the name
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): :)
    Zen (zen.arado): lots of old herbal remedies we are losing
    Zen (zen.arado): our ancestors knew
    Storm Nordwind: Cooks still know :)
    Zen (zen.arado): flavours yes
    Zen (zen.arado): losing plant species too
    Zen (zen.arado): and undiscovered remedies with them
    Zen (zen.arado): medicine was nearly all plant based not so long ago
    Zen (zen.arado): even aspirin came from willow bark or something
    Storm Nordwind: It did yes
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): yes...but now they have discovered a lot of new things that also help to feel better...:
    Zen (zen.arado): and have side effects too...
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): always improving ... but I thionk we should take care of the knowledge about old remedies too..
    Storm Nordwind: Eat up your curry. It may help prevent Alzheimer's!
    Zen (zen.arado): yes
    Zen (zen.arado): and my glass of red wine
    Zen (zen.arado): very beneficial
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): I must go now...take care all and have a nice day!! :)
    Storm Nordwind: Bye!
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi): bye :)
    Zen (zen.arado): kk bye Xirana :)
    Xirana (xirana.oximoxi) is Offline
    Zen (zen.arado): you too :)
    Zen (zen.arado): I'll have to paste this from my chat log
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you Zen :)
    Zen (zen.arado): oh it has time atamps
    Zen (zen.arado): and I changed at beginning
    Storm Nordwind: You can remove the time stamps in future.
    Storm Nordwind: Boxy could rush a quick UNIX utility together no doubt that would remove them
    Storm Nordwind: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): I changed in prefs at start when we came here
    Storm Nordwind: Ah
    Zen (zen.arado): but still in chat log
    Zen (zen.arado): saved chat log
    Zen (zen.arado): not local one
    Zen (zen.arado): so copied local chat and will paste that
    Zen (zen.arado): funny how tmestamps ceep back on again
    Storm Nordwind: A simple "cut" command in a UNIX script would remove them, but I don't have a UNIX setup here anymore
    Zen (zen.arado): I have unchecked that box many times
    Zen (zen.arado): not to worry
    Storm Nordwind: Maybe if you import into Excel, delete the first column, and then reexport it would do it?
    Zen (zen.arado): I haven't got Excel
    Storm Nordwind: Ah
    Zen (zen.arado): Word find/replace might work
    Zen (zen.arado): only a bit at the start has timestamps anyway
    Zen (zen.arado): if I use local chatlog
    Storm Nordwind: One moment...
    Second Life: Your region will restart in 5 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
    Storm Nordwind: I don't have timestamps enabled. I could send you mine by email!
    Zen (zen.arado): gosh closing down here too
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): ok, i'm off
    boxy (alfred.kelberry): you be good
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Storm Nordwind: WOuld that help Zen?
    Zen (zen.arado): it's ok Storm I have most of it unstamped
    Storm Nordwind: ok
    Zen (zen.arado): better go byee
    Zen (zen.arado): ty anyway ;)

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