2014.04.19 13:00 - Training the Dragon

The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

Qt Core: Hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: hello, QT!
Bruce Mowbray: Are you enjoying a sunny spring day?
Qt Core: not at all, rain and temperatures went down a few degrees
Bruce Mowbray: or perhaps it is already evening where you are.
Qt Core: 11pm, yes
Bruce Mowbray: Ah too bad.
Bruce Mowbray: wow that's way past my typist's bedtime.
Qt Core: 10pm, sorry
Bruce Mowbray: Do you know the saying, "April showers bring May flowers"?
Qt Core: no, but i know (translating them "April, every day a barrel" and "April, sweet! sleeping" ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: (I'm still training my Dragon NaturallySpeaking software, and its still trying to understand me)
Bruce Mowbray: amazing how it seems to do better and better every time I use it.
Bruce Mowbray: I think it was you who recommended that I watch the coding video. . .
Qt Core: someone (and you too) did his homework, then ;-)
Qt Core: yes
Bruce Mowbray: well I did watch it and found it quite amazing.
Qt Core: haven't seen it yet myself, busy day
Bruce Mowbray: the program actually invented his own language to talk to Dragon and even sounded a bit like a dragon himself.
Bruce Mowbray: I should have typed "the programmer."
Bruce Mowbray: not "the program"
Bruce Mowbray: I guess one needs to be patient with the Dragon.
Qt Core: whatever programming languages he used, it is so different from natural languages (even that evil thing that was COBOL that said so imitate English)
Bruce Mowbray: I don't really know much about programming languages, but I think he was coding in Python - using Dragon to do that.
Bruce Mowbray: COBOL was specifically written for scientific applications, right?
Bruce Mowbray ponders the tyranny of the English language.
Qt Core: No, that was Fortran, cobol, as the B stands for is for Busines, so accountants needs, mostly
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks. I knew that one of them was invented for one thing and the other for the other thing, but i got them mixed up.
Qt Core: as with every complete language, you may do everything, but it may be harder
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bruce, Qt
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Eos!
Qt Core: Hi Eos
Bruce Mowbray nods concerning Qt's point.
Bruce Mowbray: (I now see that I'm going to have to train my Dragon to say QT.)
Bruce Mowbray: it keeps wanting to type "cutie" !
Bruce Mowbray: no offense, QT.
Bruce Mowbray: it takes about four tries before it finally gets QT.
Qt Core: ;-) don't i know it (i sadly and obviously didn't think of that when choosing my name)
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: Are you having a sunny Saturday, Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: mixed, some sun, some clouds
Eos Amaterasu: nature of life :-)
Bruce Mowbray: very bright spring sun down here; feeling guilty about not mowing the grass for the first time this season.
Bruce Mowbray: so is it true that a language - by definition - can virtually do everything -- I mean a programming language?
Bruce Mowbray: [13:10] Qt Core: as with every complete language you may do everything, but it may be harder
Bertram Jacobus: hi folks

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bert!
Eos Amaterasu: most computer languages are what's called 'Turing complete'
Qt Core: most of them:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness
Bruce Mowbray: "Turing complete" or "Turing equivalent" are used to mean that any real-world general-purpose computer or computer language can approximately simulate any other real-world general-purpose computer or computer language."
Qt Core: :-)_ Eos
Eos Amaterasu:  parallelism, Qt :-)
Bruce Mowbray: wow, I'd never heard of that before, although of course I've heard of Turing, and also of the universal computing machine.
Bruce Mowbray: parallelism = "snap"?

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bert!
Qt Core: Hi Bert
Bertram Jacobus: Eos - long time not seen - but please, i don't want to disturb or interrupt your conversation !
Bertram Jacobus: and hi qt ... :-)
Bruce Mowbray: no, Bert! you are right into and with the conversation!
Bruce Mowbray: Languages of all kinds fascinate me -- especially the meta languages, and the metaphorical languages.
Eos Amaterasu: referring to parallel processing, Bruce. Qt and I were in two different threads saying the same thing :-)
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: I think I just caught up with the thread. I had assumed that parallel meant that you and QT had said the same thing.
Bruce Mowbray: (i.e., "snap")
Eos Amaterasu: "snap"?
Bruce Mowbray: it is a British expression - or perhaps a European one - that means two folks have just said the same thing, but independently.
Eos Amaterasu: syzygy
Bruce Mowbray: in America we sometimes say " Cokes"!
Eos Amaterasu: Schnappes!
Bruce Mowbray: h aha!
Bertram Jacobus: *lach*
Bruce Mowbray: Lach! - It means the same?
Bertram Jacobus: *lach* = *lol*
Eos Amaterasu: that's nice! it has a bit of meta about it, which ventilates the space
Bruce Mowbray: kk, thanks!
Bruce Mowbray: It is good to know about these things when one traverses the global village.
Eos Amaterasu: (referring to "snap!")
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Eos Amaterasu: I thought it might be that someone was taking a picture
Bruce Mowbray: yes, of course.
Bruce Mowbray: I consider language to be one of the most complex and noblest inventions of the human mind.
Eos Amaterasu: if we are both being intoxicated in the moment we could say "schnappe!"
Eos Amaterasu: in the 9 seconds
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Qt Core: and useful
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eos Amaterasu: language is like totally amazing
Bruce Mowbray: well, I find it doubly amazing that new computer languages are being invented virtually every year.
Bruce Mowbray: I have run into several of them in my attempts to learn Java.
Bruce Mowbray: there are so many sub dialects of Java.
Eos Amaterasu: we can convey experience to someone.... it floats by itself in language
Bruce Mowbray ponders experience floating by itself.
Eos Amaterasu: it's not uniquely human, but we've taken it to a new level
Eos Amaterasu: floating like in thought balloons, Bruce :-)
Eos Amaterasu: with language inside
Eos Amaterasu: How have you been, Bert?
Bertram Jacobus: ah - such a long time that we didn´t meet eos !
Bruce Mowbray: before you arrived, Eos and Bert, QT and I were talking about a video in which a man taught his NaturallySpeaking software to recognize certain grants, loans, etc. so that he could program in Python without using a keyboard.
Bertram Jacobus: a new gf since around 15 month ...
Bruce Mowbray: sry, did not mean to interrupt.
Bertram Jacobus: and work - only one day a week left ...
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, congrats :-)
Bertram Jacobus: ty ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: OH, a new girlfriend!
Bertram Jacobus: my mom is 88 now and i have to take care for her a lot
Bertram Jacobus: but how about you !?
Bruce Mowbray: a new girlfriend can change the whole world.
Bertram Jacobus: in a way, yes. true
Eos Amaterasu: umm, yes, in fact I was doing just that for my mom last year - she died at 89 last year
Bruce Mowbray: well, perhaps it adds a new focus and a new aura to the world.
Bertram Jacobus: oh i see - sry to read that ...
Eos Amaterasu: oh, there's new gf's, and there's dying moms: that's our world :-)
Bruce Mowbray: indeed
Bertram Jacobus: i agree totally with that
Eos Amaterasu: schnappe!
Bruce Mowbray: to live 89 years! phenomenal.
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. and right now, i´m sitting in the buddhist center in the german area called pfalz and we have an easter course here ...
Bruce Mowbray: oh my, thank you for sharing that Bert.
Bruce Mowbray: is it an early Easter service?
Bruce Mowbray: or meditation . . .
Bertram Jacobus: i´m thankful that i may experience such nice ... situations
Bertram Jacobus: meditation course with teachings
Bruce Mowbray: I'm a bit surprised to hear that a Buddhist Centre would have an Easter event.
Bruce Mowbray: wonderful.
Bertram Jacobus: ah - that's because people have some days off work
Eos Amaterasu: I think Bert meant a course during Easter
Bertram Jacobus: yes. Sry

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I sometimes confuse people when I mix religious traditions.
Bruce Mowbray: ( This mixing gets especially confusing during holidays, when some folks seem to take their religious traditions very seriously and literally.)
Bruce Mowbray: I simply choose to embrace them all.
Eos Amaterasu: but, Avalokiteshvara probably also manifests as a bunny :-)
Bruce Mowbray: whatever I find in them that works for me.
Bruce Mowbray: well for sure!
Bruce Mowbray: about locating Barbara
Bertram Jacobus: hehe . yes . ( @ avalokiteshvara) :o)
Bruce Mowbray: That was Dragon NaturallySpeaking trying to say Avalokiteshvara.
Eos Amaterasu: cool dragon
Bruce Mowbray: there is another word I need to train.
Bruce Mowbray: not so cool yet, I'm afraid. my Dragon needs lots of training.
Qt Core: it may learn that spelling better than most humans ;l-)
Bruce Mowbray: well especially with a word like that one.
Eos Amaterasu: btw, that probably relates to orthodoxy, Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes that topic!
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: there is much orthodoxy in language, of course
Eos Amaterasu: couldn't live without it
Bruce Mowbray: if you want to rile the purists, just mispronounce a few of their pet words.
Bruce Mowbray: I did this this morning in a group -- I mispronounced the name of Erenaeus.
Bruce Mowbray: and now I'm not sure I can even spell it.
Eos Amaterasu: I think current exploration in computer languages is an example of evolution of language
Bruce Mowbray: I totally agree with that.
Bruce Mowbray: in fact that is what QT and I were discussing before you arrived.
Eos Amaterasu: For me at the moment, Clojure is the cat's meow
Bruce Mowbray: oh boy, there is another one I've never heard of.
Eos Amaterasu: a language that is actually just a slight variation of a language that's over 50 years old
Bruce Mowbray: wow!
Eos Amaterasu: but it's finding a current niche, with a lot of people taking it up
Bruce Mowbray: I will definitely check into it. thanks for the heads up.
Eos Amaterasu: on the other hand evolution is also slow
Bruce Mowbray: however, right now I have my hands full trying to learn Java.
Bruce Mowbray: (I should've said I have my head full.)
Eos Amaterasu: there was a major burst of creativity in the late fifties and into the sixties
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes! that's when BASIC was written, right?
Eos Amaterasu: creating various paradigms which are still being played out
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, in Vermont
Bruce Mowbray: my favourite computer language - because it is so easy.
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bruce Mowbray: in Vermont?
Eos Amaterasu: the thing is, we become how we think
Bruce Mowbray: yes that's what I'm worried about.
Eos Amaterasu: for AI researchers, artificial intelligence is an occupational hazard
Bertram Jacobus: with BASIC even i was able to program a computer game (!) ;-)
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bertram Jacobus: it was a labyrinth game ... very simple but worked :-)
Eos Amaterasu: I had a nightmare in Fortan once (a long time ago :-)
Bruce Mowbray: I had written a few very simple games in BASIC before I ever played a computer game.
Eos Amaterasu: *Fortran
Qt Core: yes, i sadly discovered it trying something completely new and different from the programming languages i usually use, it was hard and it probably won't even work out
Bruce Mowbray: you had a nightmare in Fortran?
Bruce Mowbray: omg!
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Eos Amaterasu: some languages do think differently
Bruce Mowbray: for sure.
Bertram Jacobus: i like that in Africa some people say i am here instead of hello
Bruce Mowbray: I am currently taking a course in computer science through Cal Berkeley: CS 188, all lectures are on YouTube.
Eos Amaterasu: the whole feeling around the world and its manifestations is different in different natural languages
Bertram Jacobus: this African saying shows very much a different thinking i find ...
Bruce Mowbray: I love that Bert. similarly, the Navi say "I see you."
Bertram Jacobus: yes ! and they mean, they see the inner you
Eos Amaterasu: namasté
Bruce Mowbray: indeed, yes.
Bertram Jacobus: yes. very nice as well
Bruce Mowbray: I have trained my Dragon to say Namaste.
Bruce Mowbray: it was one of the first words I trained it to say.
Eos Amaterasu: good dragon
Bruce Mowbray: yes good Dragon, but with much to learn.
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: one of the things I attempted to do as an English teacher for eighth graders, and this was many years ago, was to teach them the power of the specific words.
Bruce Mowbray: this was preparing for lessons in poetry
Bruce Mowbray: I wanted them to see that every single word mattered.
Bruce Mowbray: a drop is coming up soon.
Bruce Mowbray: so I will stop talking.

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: the early Bob Dylan was that way: every word was really enunciated, a musical explosion
Bruce Mowbray: ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more !!
Bertram Jacobus: dears : i´ll leave - ty for the meeting and may all beings be happy ! ...
Qt Core: Bye Bert!
Bruce Mowbray: the pump don't work cuz the vandals took the handle !!
Eos Amaterasu: ciao, Bert1
Bruce Mowbray: see you a few minutes, Bert.
Bruce Mowbray: Namaste.
Bertram Jacobus: nooo - tomorrow brucie !? ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: oh that's right!
Bruce Mowbray: I keep thinking today is Sunday!
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. okay :-)
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha ha ha
Bruce Mowbray: I should train my fish to remind me.
Bruce Mowbray: it's funny how my days get confused like that. I wonder what causes that
Bruce Mowbray: probably relating things that happen to certain days of the week...
Bruce Mowbray: like, Monday's laundry day, and that sort of thing.
Qt Core: listening to the bells sounds from the nearby church for the night Easter celebration
Bruce Mowbray: this morning I went to a nearby town that I normally only drive to on Sundays.
Bruce Mowbray: and ever sense this morning I've been thinking about today being Sunday.
Eos Amaterasu: nice, Qt...
Bruce Mowbray: so, does today feel like Sunday to you too, QT?
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, I've fallen into those kinds of slides, Bruce
Qt Core: no, a typical Saturday for me
Bruce Mowbray: well it's particularly true for me, now that I am retired, and that I have so few things on my schedule.
Eos Amaterasu: today has felt like Saturday to me - but that's always a pretty distinctive day
Bruce Mowbray: yes, if you do special things on Saturday, then of course Saturday will be Saturday for you.
Bruce Mowbray: when I do Sunday things on Saturday, then Saturday feels like Sunday.
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha ha ha.
Qt Core: it is shopping day and lately a morning at the gym day
Eos Amaterasu: nice to be able to do time shifting
Bruce Mowbray: it's funny but, in my mind, I am still thinking about going to Bert's meditation after this session.
Eos Amaterasu: I always go to Farmer's Market Sat morning
Bruce Mowbray: oh, that sounds good.
Qt Core: used to go to the gym in the evening going in the morning make me think that the rest of the day is "extra time"
Eos Amaterasu: you are realizing the emptiness of recurring intentions, Bruce :-)
Bruce Mowbray: wow.
Eos Amaterasu: congrats! :-)
Bruce Mowbray: well it seems my intentions are quite empty --  if I went to Bert's meditation tonight, I'd be the only one there and the place would be empty.
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Eos Amaterasu: ha ha
Bruce Mowbray: have either of you been watching the course in Buddhist psychology offered through Coursera?
Bruce Mowbray: Zen and I are both taking it.
Bruce Mowbray: it's really very good.
Eos Amaterasu: no, have not
Bruce Mowbray: it might be offered through FutureLearn, not sure.
Qt Core: no
Bruce Mowbray: I could give you a link.
Bruce Mowbray: the Prof - Robert Wright - is very good, congenial , funny, and quite informed.
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, post the link
Bruce Mowbray: https://class.coursera.org/psychbuddhism-001/lecture
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it is Coursera.
Bruce Mowbray: I finished his lectures on the "self" and now need to get caught up.
Eos Amaterasu: Well, I have to segue to RL directions...
Bruce Mowbray: okay!
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao Bruce and Qt - happy Easter
Bruce Mowbray: thanks for being here!
Qt Core: Bye Eos
Bruce Mowbray: I am going to have my typist stare at a calendar.
Bruce Mowbray: maybe that will straighten him out.
Qt Core: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Qt Core: have fun!
Bruce Mowbray: bye for now, good man!
Qt Core: bye