2014.04.21 13:00 - You Can Emote Your Way Out

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal, who listened to "Guinnevere" as she posted this log...
The few comments are by Eliza.
 

Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
Wol Euler: hello zon, aggers
Agatha Macbeth: And hello Wollie ♥
Agatha Macbeth: Bunnylicious
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: love your nails
Agatha Macbeth: Me or Zon?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi everyone - sorry to be a little late
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Eliza Madrigal: lookin' fancy ^.^
Wol Euler: happy easter
Agatha Macbeth: Miaow Liz ♥
Zon Kwan: heya
Agatha Macbeth: ^.^
Eliza Madrigal: Happy Easter etc
Wol Euler: speaking of fancy :)
Eliza Madrigal meant to change
Eliza Madrigal: the cat head makes me feel hot
Agatha Macbeth: Happy Easter indeed, not sure about 'etc' tho
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: You *are* hot ;P
Agatha Macbeth: Nya
Eliza Madrigal: /boom chica wow wow

Eliza Madrigal: :) So what did I miss?
Wol Euler: a few "hellos", not much more
Agatha Macbeth: Oh Wollie was talking about nails I think
Wol Euler: yours, yes
Wol Euler: hello bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Betty Boop?

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce, Zen :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Brucie
Zon Kwan: hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hello!
Agatha Macbeth: And hello Zenny
Zon Kwan: hi Zen
Wol Euler: hello zen, bruce
Zen Arado: Hi all

Eliza Madrigal: It will take me a moment to settle in. my grandfather has been here today and while I love him dearly... he can be a little negative... sometimes takes me a little bit to kind of "revive"
Wol Euler sighs and gives your hand a squeeze
Agatha Macbeth: You should get him into SL
Eliza Madrigal: thank you :)
Agatha Macbeth: We'll soon make him positive
Zen Arado: he could be grumpy in here
Eliza Madrigal: Agatha, then I would have to leave
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: same as me :)
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Agatha Macbeth: Families eh
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: he's wonderful... but generally whatever the topic is, he enumerates the way things are getting harder
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe he's right
Zen Arado: grumpiness seems to set in when you get past 70
Agatha Macbeth: They certainly don't seem to get easier
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: well, he did say something cute to my son today...
Zen Arado: there was an article on Facebook that said that
Zen Arado: so it must be true
Wol Euler listens.
Agatha Macbeth: 'Get out of bed'?
Eliza Madrigal: he talked about how much he disliked visiting his old aunts when he was a kid..
Eliza Madrigal: haha Aggers :)
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: so perhaps there is a bit of self-knowledge in there?`
Zen Arado: at least he did it
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) definitely
Eliza Madrigal: anyway..... feel better already. thank you
Zen Arado: most old people seem to be isolated these days
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: he's very social and very isolated at the same time

Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we should have an oni to cheer everyone up?
Eliza Madrigal digs through inventory
Bruce Mowbray: onigokko
Bruce Mowbray: stop
Wol Euler: awwww
Agatha Macbeth: Caught again!
Eliza Madrigal: :) waiting for Wol and Zon...
Wol Euler: ready :)
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Agatha Macbeth: Hit it
Eliza Madrigal: wow great skirt
Bruce Mowbray: onigokko
Zon Kwan: hm
Agatha Macbeth hides under it
Eliza Madrigal: Zon... wearing?
Zon Kwan: people seem restless
Bruce Mowbray: Is everyone cheered up yet?
Eliza Madrigal: quite
Bruce Mowbray: SPRING!
Zon Kwan: running around
Bruce Mowbray: stop
Agatha Macbeth: Boing
Zon Kwan: strange
Eliza Madrigal: though maybe we made zon edgy
Wol Euler cheers!
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhhh!
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Zen Arado: how long does it take you to recover from a negative incident?
Agatha Macbeth: Well that blew away a few cobwebs
Zon Kwan: now they seem to calm down
Zen Arado: How long should it take?
Eliza Madrigal: how fast to bouce?
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Zon Kwan: i dont need to make a call
Eliza Madrigal: some do seem bouncier than others
Agatha Macbeth: Bouce?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: depends on the incident. Some take ages
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: "bounce back"
Agatha Macbeth: Benny the bouncer
Eliza Madrigal: I agree with Wol
Agatha Macbeth: Me too
Zen Arado: But really if they live in the present they should be able to move on immediately?
Agatha Macbeth: (usually)
Eliza Madrigal: with some things I bounce quickly but others never :)
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think that's what living in the present is necessarily...
Zen Arado: It's only thoughts that keep things going isn't it?

Agatha Macbeth: The wonderful thing about tiggers is tiggers are wonderful things
Agatha Macbeth: Bouncy bouncy bouncy
Agatha Macbeth: Fun fun fun
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: (flips)
Zen Arado: This happens to me too I am just musing about it
Agatha Macbeth ponders a bouncy Zen
Zen Arado: dead cat bounce
Zen Arado: a term from finance

In finance, a dead cat bounce is a small, brief recovery in the price of a declining stock. Derived from the idea that "even a dead cat will bounce if it falls from a great height", the phrase, which originated on Wall[1]Street, is also popularly applied to any case where a subject experiences a brief resurgence during or following a severe decline.(wikipedia)
 

Eliza Madrigal: we're approaching the pause soon.... and I wondered whether everyone would like to continue with orthodoxy today... or perhaps touch on the conscious uncoupling idea
Agatha Macbeth calls Schrödinger
Zon Kwan: conscious uncoupling idea?
Agatha Macbeth: Sounds interesting
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno what it is tho
Eliza Madrigal: raised at the guardian session (me)
Zon Kwan: what is it?

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth tries to remember
Zen Arado: can we consciously uncouple from the past or future
Agatha Macbeth: Hang on, that's over a week ago, no wonder I don't remember!
Zen Arado: ?
Eliza Madrigal: So this came up in the mainstream recently because famous people announced their divorce using the term, and I really liked it. But I like the term across various categories… because to me it implies that time was taken, and rather than a spirit of “just get over it” or “drop it”… it seems gentle, and as though one thing could be detangled, etc
Zen Arado: Starting to wonder about that
Eliza Madrigal: :) Agatha
Eliza Madrigal: I think it is powerful to use it for divorce, but unrealistic for most to actually pull off..
Eliza Madrigal: to genuinely take time to be thankful and yet also move on

Agatha Macbeth: So kind of like splitting the atom?

Zen Arado: one of my modular ourselves will churn bad incidents over to see if there is a way to justify myself and to avoid this happening in the future
Eliza Madrigal: so, I've been thinking about it a lot and thought I'd bring it up here
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: :) interesting analogy Aggers!
Bruce Mowbray ponders rumination of things past.
Agatha Macbeth: Just off the top o' me head
Eliza Madrigal: so when you see that Zen, if able to bring awareness, rather than overreact maybe you can hear that one self or voice and let it be eased?
Zen Arado: well I find that even if I am aware of it it still continues
Eliza Madrigal: rogue selves
Zen Arado: I can't control what I think about
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: they are survival rogues though
Agatha Macbeth: Survival rogues...

Zen Arado: programmed to get our genes into the next generation
Wol Euler: interesting concept
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Zen Arado: I don't want any of mine to do that :-)
Zen Arado: they are old genes
Zen Arado: :-)

Eliza Madrigal: so what is the survival benefit of rumination?
Agatha Macbeth: Gene genie
Zen Arado: perhaps to avoid a recurrence of something bad had happened in the past
Agatha Macbeth: Well it works for cows Liz
Zen Arado: ?
Eliza Madrigal: long term problem solving
Wol Euler pokes you
Agatha Macbeth checks and finds she's still here
Zen Arado: Even though it makes us miserable
Wol Euler: right, which seems something of a dis-benefit
Bruce Mowbray: There seems to be some masochistic fascination with rumination, and perhaps some advantage to pondering what we might do differently in this future.
Zen Arado: evolution isn't worried about us being happy or miserable

Agatha Macbeth: What makes us miserable?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: brilliant line Zen, hah
Zen Arado: rumination
Agatha Macbeth: Ruminating?
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Bruce Mowbray: afk for a sec....
Zen Arado: oh yes it's a well-known recipe for depression
Eliza Madrigal: true... imaginative possibilities... but there are also imaginative possibilities to moving on
Agatha Macbeth: Well I certainly wouldn't eat grass until nothing else was available
Zen Arado: but they say you can't think yourself out of depression
Eliza Madrigal: seems right to me Zen
Agatha Macbeth: No but you can emote your way out
Zen Arado: you go into a downwards spiral

Zen Arado: that's why meditation is better – it lets go of the negative thoughts
Agatha Macbeth: Some people drink or take drugs to achieve it
Zen Arado: or to avoid it
Agatha Macbeth: Right
Eliza Madrigal: in a guided meditation the other day, I found myself 'escaping' and realized that I was responding to it/using it in a similar way one might use a medication... to go away from the discomfort (in that case emotional) that I was feeling
Zen Arado: to avoid their thoughts because alcohol can temporarily block them out
Agatha Macbeth: Medication meditation
Zen Arado: yes I guess it can be used that way
Zen Arado: but it should be more about opening to the thoughts
Eliza Madrigal: I think that's how people become "so heavenly minded no earthly good" - hehe... church phrase
Bruce Mowbray: Curious that in our culture, taking drugs to alleviate physical pain is fine -- but not so for emotional pain . . . (oppps, maybe so... remembers Prozac.)
Zen Arado: but not being carried along by them

Eliza Madrigal: yeah... sometimes escaping is good too
Bruce Mowbray: kk, over-the-counter drugs, like alcohol.
Eliza Madrigal: and breaks the chain of rumination
Zen Arado: maybe we need some escape
Zen Arado: escape from ourselves
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Agatha Macbeth: Think a lot of people need escape
Wol Euler: a temporary escape perhaps, from something we know that we aren't ready to take on head-first just yet

Zen Arado: sorry I seem to be negative tonight
Eliza Madrigal tickles zen
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it's the over 70 thing ;-)
Zen Arado: yes Wol
Bruce Mowbray: brings out Laurel and Hardy movies to show for Zen.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: a lot of this is coming from that Buddhism and psychology course
Agatha Macbeth hands Zenny a double dose of Philosan
Bruce Mowbray: Yes.
Bruce Mowbray: It is.
Wol Euler: maybe it's easter-.
Bruce Mowbray: and I need to catch up with that course, tonight, I hope.
Agatha Macbeth: It *is* Easter
Wol Euler: this is a time for thinking about rather grim things

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth looks at Wollie somewhat puzzled
Eliza Madrigal: but also liberation
Eliza Madrigal: other side of the coin

Zen Arado: I was watching the video about self-control
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Zen Arado: but I fell asleep after 20 minutes and need to watch it again
Bruce Mowbray: h aha!
Zen Arado: :-)
Agatha Macbeth: There's a moral there somewhere
Zen Arado: it isn't that it wasn't interesting just that I was sleepy
Bruce Mowbray: nods.

Eliza Madrigal: when I brought up the topic I was also thinking about something that someone once asked me to do in a conversation.. which was "to decouple from logical mind" for a while and speak from heart
Agatha Macbeth: And did you?
Zen Arado: but it was something along the lines that our brains decide what's best for our survival and then our conscious mind then comes up with a reason to justify it
Eliza Madrigal: and I thought that was a beautiful instruction
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I quite did :)
Eliza Madrigal: still aspire
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Agatha Macbeth: Keep trying!
Wol Euler nods.
Agatha Macbeth: 'Do or do not: there is no try'
Zen Arado: it's terrible to think that they might just be organisms driven by the need for survival
Bruce Mowbray: ty, Yoda.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: YW young Jedi

Zen Arado: voice typing old let me say we, it puts in they instead:-)
Eliza Madrigal: the course is good but academic ... enjoy the dog talk tho
Zen Arado: won't
Agatha Macbeth: HA
Agatha Macbeth: Get Dash one :p
Bruce Mowbray: Loves the two dogs.
Eliza Madrigal: dragon taming you
Eliza Madrigal: ^.^
Zen Arado: yep
Agatha Macbeth looks round for the dogs and dragon
Bruce Mowbray tries to remember their names.
Eliza Madrigal smiles

Eliza Madrigal: excuse me a second... I really need a face

Wol Euler: Sartre and Camus ...
Agatha Macbeth: I only see a cat and a fish
Bruce Mowbray: nawwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Zen Arado: I'm sure there's a good line there
Zon Kwan: waves
Agatha Macbeth: Oui Jean Paul c'est nous
Bruce Mowbray: One dog was "more Buddhist" than the poodle.
Agatha Macbeth: Au revoir Zon
Bruce Mowbray: Can't recall the names of either at the moment.
Zen Arado: bye Zon
Agatha Macbeth: Fifi and Fido?
Zen Arado: Frazier was one
Bruce Mowbray: FRAZIER!
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Bruce Mowbray: YES!
Agatha Macbeth: The only Frazier I remember was in Cheers
Zen Arado: forget the other one
Bruce Mowbray: I think that's how the prof found that name, actually.

Agatha Macbeth: WB Liz
Eliza Madrigal: thanks :))
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Zen.
Zen Arado: welcome back Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: >whew< :::breathes::::
Zen Arado: with a fresh face
Agatha Macbeth: Original Face?
Zen Arado: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: an excellent face, to be sure.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe... actually not everything I changed is showing changed
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Wol Euler: there :)
Agatha Macbeth: Works for me
Zen Arado: her face before she was born
Bruce Mowbray: even before her parents were born.
Eliza Madrigal: just a glint...

Zen Arado: Hi san
Wol Euler: hello san
Agatha Macbeth: Hm, skin looks kinda 2005 ish tho
Santoshima Resident: hello everyone
Bruce Mowbray: SAN-ji!
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Agatha Macbeth: Yo San
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San

Zen Arado: I'm losing faith that I have any control over anything
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Zen, and just enjoying letting it flow.
Eliza Madrigal: okay hope not wardrobe malfunctions... don't want to leave again
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe Ruth?
Wol Euler listens.
Agatha Macbeth: Ah nice, like that one
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps we still have some control over whether we derive joy from our experiences.
Eliza Madrigal: Zen, what do you think of the idea... that there is the karma/chi we are born with, then also outer (circumstances) but between those... the margin of freedom?
Zen Arado: Ruth doesn't happen any more? 
Bruce Mowbray: Lovely, Eliza!

Zen Arado: I think freedom is just an idea
Eliza Madrigal: so odd to try to connect through the cat head :))
Agatha Macbeth: Or an illusion
Eliza Madrigal: sure.. but maybe everything is? at least that can be put into words?
Zen Arado: we are governed by our talents, abilities, upbringing, family pressures, our education
Zen Arado: etc etc
Bruce Mowbray: or just another word for nothing left to lose?
Wol Euler: yes but no
Zen Arado: yep
Agatha Macbeth: The cat mind instead of the monkey mind

Wol Euler: governed is a strong term, we could at any moment get up and walk away, as people do
Bruce Mowbray: (I don't feel that way about freedom, of course!)
Agatha Macbeth: Freedom come, freedom go
Eliza Madrigal: I find the realm of personal responsibility/freedom a liberating notion
Zen Arado: and we would justify our decision to get up and walk away
Wol Euler nods.

Santoshima Resident: id' go for the river otter mind ... lotsa joi de vie
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: For me, freedom is a way of being in the world.
Wol Euler: hehehehh

Zen Arado: but there were probably pressures that we might not even have been conscious of that made us do it
Bruce Mowbray: Power and Love are two other ways of being in the world.
Zen Arado: maybe freedom is realising we don't have any freedom
Zen Arado: freedom from the idea of control
Bruce Mowbray: or, maybe, freedom is realizing that we cannot have either Love or Power and still have un-compromised freedom.
Bruce Mowbray: take your pick, folks.

Zen Arado: I studied freedom quite a lot in political philosophy
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Zen Arado: because politicians talk a lot about it

--BELL--

Zen Arado: but we are imprisoned by societal constraints
Bruce Mowbray: not me!

Zen Arado: did you ever think about how much we are imprisoned by the opinions of others ?
Wol Euler: if it is a prison, we hold the key ourselves
Zen Arado: If you don't pay your taxes they will put you in prison
Bruce Mowbray poo-poos that orthodoxy stuff.
Zen Arado: yes but we are only free so long as we do what society says we should do
Bruce Mowbray: and if you don't die, then what? worse than prison, maybe.

Bruce Mowbray: Freedom (as well as Love and Power) is a choice.... .
Bruce Mowbray: a bit like "happiness."

Zen Arado: we don't realise the mass of social taboos we can't go against
Zen Arado: I can't even walk down the street naked
Wol Euler: freedom is a story we are telling ourselves about how we deal from moment to the next with the choices we've made
Agatha Macbeth: Let's do it in the road
Zen Arado: (not that I want to )
Eliza Madrigal: if you moved to another community you might be allowed
Bruce Mowbray: Well, name one taboo that you would LIKE to go against.
Agatha Macbeth listens
Bruce Mowbray: (Hermits have more freedom than normal forks, admittedly.)
Zen Arado: yes I think that's what I'm getting at Wol

Eliza Madrigal: yes...I was seeing freedom as the margin for 'response'
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: it's like we have to maneuvre through all of these constraints and if we do that successfully we can say we are free
Bruce Mowbray ponders dealing moment-to-moment with the choices he has made.
Eliza Madrigal: we can respond with the default or go beyond that into spontaneity
Wol Euler: I'd rather say "if having maneuvred through them all we do not feel opressed, then we are free"
Eliza Madrigal: (for us, maybe not by someone else's measure)
Zen Arado: perhaps our spontaneity is conditioned though

Bruce Mowbray: so, freedom is a by-product?
Zen Arado: but that means spontaneity doesn't exist hmm
Eliza Madrigal: I do think conditioning is required for spontaneity.. intentional cultivation
Bruce Mowbray: How about making freedom the priority?
Wol Euler: like happiness, yes

Zen Arado: it's like back in the sixties some of us prided ourselves on being nonconformist
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, like happiness.
Wol Euler: can easily be done, bruce, the Waco crowd did it, and so do most murderers
Zen Arado: but we were really going along with the rules of nonconformity of our peers
Bruce Mowbray listens for echoes of the 60's.
Eliza Madrigal: not sure... many were, but there is a diff between going along and resonating
Eliza Madrigal: trying to leap
Bruce Mowbray wonders if his typist is a closeted murderer.
Eliza Madrigal: thinking "hm, maybe this is it"
Bruce Mowbray: or Waco dude.
Zen Arado: :-)
Zen Arado: please don't be spontaneous then Bruce

Agatha Macbeth: Leap of faith?
Zen Arado: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal: if Pema hadn't been a hippy playasbeing wouldn't have been started :)
Bruce Mowbray: I will try!
Bruce Mowbray: 
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....

Zen Arado: I think any of us could be murderers under the right circumstances
Agatha Macbeth: Or the wrong ones
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Zen Arado: like the man who was found to have had a brain tumour that caused him to murder people
Bruce Mowbray: No doubt about that, at least for my typist, Zen.
Bruce Mowbray: But for him (my typist) is was a very intentional and deliberate thing.
Wol Euler: not even that. I know for a fact that I would have done my best to kill anyone who threatened my sister's kids when they were little
Bruce Mowbray: He's lucky not to have any weapons in his house, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Wol!
Agatha Macbeth: Understandable Wollie
Zen Arado: that's a survival instinct again isn't it ?
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Zen Arado: The desire to protect offspring
Wol Euler: mmhmm

Bruce Mowbray: My typist is still reading SEX AND WAR.... a fascinating book about these things.
Eliza Madrigal: say more please?
Agatha Macbeth: You take the war
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: it all sounds rather cold when you put it in psychological terms though
Agatha Macbeth: :p
Bruce Mowbray: We are genetically programmed to band together to fight other males - especially those whom we consider "oursiders."
Agatha Macbeth: It's the animal mind v the God mind
Bruce Mowbray: fortunately, Bruce has little or no testosterone at all.
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Zen Arado: and we feel like zombies just being driven here and there by our survival tendencies
Agatha Macbeth: Aww Brucie
Bruce Mowbray: It all went to his antler-growth.
Agatha Macbeth: You horny old thing you <3
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: 
Zen Arado: :-)

Agatha Macbeth dies from laughing....
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....

Agatha Macbeth: Sorry, you were saying...
Bruce Mowbray: [Things look different from down there, don't they, aggers?]
Agatha Macbeth: Yeppers
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Zen Arado: the ego sure doesn't like this kind of talk
Agatha Macbeth: Ah screw the ego
Zen Arado: somebody tell me I'm wrong
Agatha Macbeth: Just don't say 'we'
Zen Arado: and I deserve all the good things I have worked for
Agatha Macbeth: You do too
Zen Arado: and I am in control of my life, master of my fate
Bruce Mowbray: No, you are right, Mr. Freud.... but there are other aspects to your being besides ego, thank whatever-powers-that-made-us.

Bruce Mowbray: Do you feel that it is not possible to step outside of ego?
Agatha Macbeth: Ego you go we all go
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha.
Bruce Mowbray: As in Adam's fall, we fall all.
Zen Arado: I think that's what meditation and spiritual practice helps with
Agatha Macbeth: Et in Arcadia ego
Bruce Mowbray: definitely so, Zen.
Zen Arado: but I wonder if we ever escape
Zen Arado: but then we probably need that ego as well to survive

Bruce Mowbray: perhaps not, but the "work" is good, anyway.
Bruce Mowbray: like the 99 days,
Zen Arado: even if it is a kind of illusion
Bruce Mowbray: good work,
Bruce Mowbray: whether one makes it to the finish line or not.
Agatha Macbeth: When does that start btw?
Bruce Mowbray: The journey's the thing.

Bruce Mowbray: Woly knows.
Agatha Macbeth: Wollie knows all

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Nice glasses San
Santoshima Resident: with each breath
Santoshima Resident: oh, ty
Eliza Madrigal: excuse me one moment... grandfather leaving after spending the hour with son :)
Wol Euler: okay
Bruce Mowbray: kk, Eliza.
Agatha Macbeth waves to Liz's grandfather
Santoshima Resident: bye bye Eliza
Wol Euler: and yes, lovely specs :) very stylish
Wol Euler: so out as to be totally in
Santoshima Resident: bifocals
Agatha Macbeth: Same to you
Bruce Mowbray: so much for conformity to social norms!

Zen Arado: it amazes me that Eliza still has a grandfather
Zen Arado: my grandfather died about 50 years ago
Wol Euler: she's the youngster here
Bruce Mowbray: mine too, Zen.
Zen Arado: even so
Agatha Macbeth: Young Liz
Wol Euler: I have outlived one of mine already, with the other I have about seven years to go (I think)
Wol Euler: I never knew either of them
Eliza Madrigal: false alarm
Eliza Madrigal: amazes me too Zen actually.. he is 84
Agatha Macbeth: No need for 911 then
Eliza Madrigal: quite young
Zen Arado: one of my grandfather's tied in his mid-forties the other had 70
Zen Arado: died
Zen Arado: died tied sigh
Eliza Madrigal: I have no one on "father's" side ....aunt/uncle cousins, but I didn't grow up with them... getting close now... and just he on my mother's
Bruce Mowbray: My mother's parents both died before I was born. But I did know my father's father.
Agatha Macbeth: I was about to ask who he tied with...sorry
Zen Arado: so little difference between those two words isn't there?
Eliza Madrigal: well, and sister...but I mean elders :) think it is great for kids to know great grandparents...rare
Agatha Macbeth: Dead heat maybe
Wol Euler nods.
Agatha Macbeth: The gene genie

Bruce Mowbray: It seems to me that once one has accomplished whatever he/she wanted to in life, and especially if a ripe old age has been reached, then moving on (dying, as it were) is no big deal.
Bruce Mowbray: It holds no more of a spectre over my typist, anyway.

Zen Arado: I will never have accomplished whatever I want to
Zen Arado: because new things keep coming up :-)

Eliza Madrigal: yes there is some sense of wanting to leave it all on stage before the curtain closes

Santoshima Resident: long in the tooth
Santoshima Resident: love that expression
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Agatha Macbeth: I read that as 'sceptre' and was puzzled
Zen Arado: sceptred isle
Bruce Mowbray ponders long in the antlers as well as long in the tooth.
Eliza Madrigal: my grandfather seems far younger than my mother actually
Zen Arado: where does that come from
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Zen Arado: Shakespeare I think
Santoshima Resident: canines, old dogs
Agatha Macbeth: What?
Bruce Mowbray: probably the Bard, yes.
Zen Arado: sceptred isle
Agatha Macbeth: Oh yes
Agatha Macbeth: Henry V I think
Bruce Mowbray looks for his scepter.
Bruce Mowbray: Ha!
Zen Arado: sceptre
Zen Arado: ;)
Agatha Macbeth: Not septic anyway

Bruce Mowbray: I just watched Brannagh's Henry V last week!
Eliza Madrigal: "leave not a rack behind"
Eliza Madrigal looks at Bruce, hehe
Agatha Macbeth: Good old Ken
Bruce Mowbray: Ken is/was a good man, and a superb actor!
Zen Arado: he was brought up in Northern Ireland
Bruce Mowbray: really!?
Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully 'is'
Zen Arado: yep
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Bruce Mowbray: Ireland is an amazing place -- for writers and actors.
Agatha Macbeth: Oh truly
Bruce Mowbray recalls a few Dublinish writers.

Zen Arado: you have to do something waiting for the rain to stop
Bruce Mowbray: yes, and before the ale goes sour.
Agatha Macbeth: Not the guiness tho
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: That never gets a chance to go sour
Zen Arado: my goodness
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Agatha Macbeth: (hic)
Zen Arado: my goodness my Guinness
Bruce Mowbray: hic hic.
Zen Arado: old ad
Bruce Mowbray: Does gin count?

Agatha Macbeth: Do they still advertise alcohol or is that banned now?
Bruce Mowbray: It is banned in America.
Bruce Mowbray: Don't know about Europe.
Zen Arado: come to think of it I think it is banned
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Agatha Macbeth: Not sure about here cos I never watch TV
Bruce Mowbray: and cigs, too.
Zen Arado: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Oh cigarettes definitely
Zen Arado: and dire warnings and pictures of skeletons on the packets
Agatha Macbeth: Long ago
Bruce Mowbray: so much for freedom in advertising, huh?
Zen Arado: and the cigarettes are very expensive
Agatha Macbeth: Well I don't see how it stops people to be honest
Agatha Macbeth: They just do it anyway
Bruce Mowbray: Yes indeed. I think they now cost about $10 in New York, per PACK!
Bruce Mowbray: But that doesn't concern me in the least, since i don't touch that stuff.
Zen Arado: it adds extra cache for young people perhaps
Zen Arado: look at me doing something dangerous
Agatha Macbeth nods

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: They are ones they target
Bruce Mowbray loves "extra cache" --- Extra "cash"? and empathizes with Dragon's ability to differentiate.
Bruce Mowbray: (or lack of ability to differentiate.)
Zen Arado: no, I had to correct it from cachet
Agatha Macbeth: That's why they guard gold
Bruce Mowbray: kk, ha ha!
Zen Arado: are you using it at the moment Bruce ?
Bruce Mowbray: Johnny Cash?
Bruce Mowbray: I am not using it at all, ty.
Agatha Macbeth: Johnny Cachet
Zen Arado: Maybe the right word is cachet
Bruce Mowbray: crochet?
Agatha Macbeth: Jim Croce
Zen Arado: can't be bothered looking it up
Bruce Mowbray: knit one perl one.
Agatha Macbeth: He's been dead 40 years wow
Bruce Mowbray: HA HA.

Bruce Mowbray: If I WERE using Dragon, I would surely hope it could do better than my TYPIST!!!!
Agatha Macbeth: Enter the dragon
Zen Arado: it just makes mistakes faster Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: and exit moi.
Bruce Mowbray: THANKS, everyone.
Wol Euler: bye bruce, happy scraping
Bruce Mowbray: You have lifted my spirits!
Agatha Macbeth: Oh spooky antlers
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce :))
Santoshima Resident: handsome
Santoshima Resident: bye
Agatha Macbeth: TC Brucie
Zen Arado: we didn't have any control over our spirits being lifted :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Don't breathe fire
Santoshima Resident: \bye folks ~
Eliza Madrigal: I'm stepping away once more... maybe for a little longer and if I miss goodbyes , thanks for being here :))
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Sanji
Wol Euler: bye zen, take care; bye san, enjoy the day
Zen Arado: byee all
Eliza Madrigal: oh, okay Bye San and Zen :)
Agatha Macbeth: And Zenji
Eliza Madrigal: (bbshortly)
Santoshima Resident: enjoy the day all ~
Zen Arado: spirit lifting must be best for our survival :)
Agatha Macbeth: It's nearly finished :p
Agatha Macbeth: Ah well
Wol Euler sighs.

Agatha Macbeth: How's Wollie?
Wol Euler: paradoxically, I have less desire to go to work on short weeks than on long ones
Agatha Macbeth: Makes a kind of sense actually
Wol Euler: Boss is going to be away Thursday and Friday, so this will be a two-day week, and I really do not want to bother at all
Agatha Macbeth: You'll only sit about in yer pyjamas playing WoW anyway :p
Wol Euler: true that
Agatha Macbeth pokes you
Wol Euler pokes you back.
Agatha Macbeth: You would make a good Arthur Dent
Wol Euler: and reading, don'T forget that.
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Agatha Macbeth: Saving the universe in a dressing gown
Wol Euler nods.
Agatha Macbeth: DON@T PANIC
Wol Euler: if only I could earn money by playing WoW. Perhaps I'll apply to be a CS rep
Agatha Macbeth: Or DON'T even
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Agatha Macbeth: Good idea
Agatha Macbeth: Become a pro
Agatha Macbeth: A WoW hustler
Agatha Macbeth: Like paul Newman
Wol Euler: my eyes aren'T blue :(
Agatha Macbeth: Picky picky
Agatha Macbeth: They are green actually ;-)

Agatha Macbeth: The furry phase was certainly over quick this time
Wol Euler: well, Jordan was playing in a very formal club on Saturday, so I had to go human to wear a gown
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Agatha Macbeth: Glad she's back
Wol Euler: yeah
Agatha Macbeth: Bless her
Wol Euler: So I've been listening to Arvo Pärt's "Passio" while we were talking.
Wol Euler: it's a marvellous piece
Agatha Macbeth: Oh nice
Agatha Macbeth: Not sure if I know it, probably do
Wol Euler: beautiful and sad and grim, until those magnificent last three or four bars
Wol Euler: always bring tears to my eyes
Agatha Macbeth: A lot of things do that with moi
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: How's Eidolon these days?
Wol Euler: I haven't spoken to her in ages. Haven'T seen her online (timezone thing, I know she has been)

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Hope she's well
Agatha Macbeth: Corvi too
Wol Euler nods.
Agatha Macbeth: Is Vox still there?
Wol Euler: I'm not sure. I believe so
Agatha Macbeth: Must take a look sometime
Agatha Macbeth: Haven't been to Mugunghwa for a while
Wol Euler: search says it is. With zero traffic :(
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Agatha Macbeth: All the more reason to take a peek then :p
Agatha Macbeth: Make it 1 at least

Wol Euler: I'm hanging on to see whether and under which circumstances Eliza comes back
Wol Euler: if she's able, I'd like to suggest a few minutes' meditation
Agatha Macbeth: Actually my eyes are getting kinda tired
Agatha Macbeth: I'll hang on to the next bell

Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: sorry....
Agatha Macbeth: Ah WB
Wol Euler: hehehehhe
Eliza Madrigal: it was sweet actually.... they seemed to have had a nice talk
Agatha Macbeth: Great
Eliza Madrigal: are you able to meditate for a while? want to go to ZR?
Wol Euler: love to
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Wol Euler: can you?
Eliza Madrigal: yay, eeking last energies of the day in a bright way :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, he's gone home :)
Wol Euler: great :)
Agatha Macbeth: De-gramped
Agatha Macbeth: And de-grumped

Eliza Madrigal: very thankful for him
Eliza Madrigal: negativity and all :)
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Yin and yang and all that
Eliza Madrigal: that's right