2014.06.15 07:00 - Assumptions We Make

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: hiya Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Morning :)) Score any goals yet? ^^

Bleu Oleander: hehe
Bleu Oleander: hard to escape from it
Eliza Madrigal: True. I like the games but have a hard time slowing down enough to watch them so far
Bleu Oleander: that's an interesting statement from a long time PaBer :)
Bleu Oleander: but yes, me too
Eliza Madrigal: maybe "mindfulness" or whatever we've been doing here, can't be gained, in the sense of stored away or accumulated... not sure... interesting question :) But the slowing down is more about events and happenings :))
Bleu Oleander: yes interesting to think about long term effects and if it translates to rl in a practical way
Eliza Madrigal: I think it does, but maybe not in predictable ways
Bleu Oleander: again the "context" idea comes up
Eliza Madrigal: say more? :)
Bleu Oleander: I was thinking today about "assumptions" and how our assumptions might shape our perceptions
Bleu Oleander: even in the context of "the context"
Eliza Madrigal: how so?
Bleu Oleander: so do we learn our context in a way?
Bleu Oleander: how much is inherited?
Bleu Oleander: and is that what we're trying to "drop" here?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes I see... contexts all the way down?
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Bleu Oleander: how far down we don't even have access to
Eliza Madrigal: I've found that sometimes something has dropped without my intending, just by catching sight, or because it was part of something else I didn't realize it was part of
Bleu Oleander: when we feel more out of control, we become more sensitive to context and less comfortable with uncertainty
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I think "dropping" has taken on a life of its own in PaB, different from what Pema might have meant
Eliza Madrigal: but that has been interesting
Bleu Oleander: i'm really enjoying my class on the brain ... especially the part on perception
Bleu Oleander: we're setting up an rl visit to a brain-bank
Bleu Oleander: should be interesting!
Eliza Madrigal: whoa, nice!
Eliza Madrigal: I think the University of Miami, here, has one
Bleu Oleander: hope I can stay standing ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal: haha
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: thinking of donating your brain?
Bleu Oleander: probably the only way i'd get into Harvard LOL
Agatha Macbeth: Hi folks ♥
Bleu Oleander: hey Aggers
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Bleu... well I thought we agreed to go to MIT next life?
Agatha Macbeth: Wow cyan
Bleu Oleander: does MIT have a brain bank?
Agatha Macbeth: Romney?
Eliza Madrigal: heehee... hmmm, don't think so
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Agatha Macbeth: Good answer
Eliza Madrigal: rooting for Brazil, Aggers?
Agatha Macbeth: Like the top :p
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: i'm an equal opportunity rooter :)
Agatha Macbeth: Root 66
Agatha Macbeth: Trouble is all schedules will go out the window for next 3 weeks!
Eliza Madrigal: was fun to watch the Australians in the stands, with air kangaroos
Agatha Macbeth: Bless em
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder if Mira was watching?
Bleu Oleander: seems everyone is
Bleu Oleander: segue back into perception ....
Bleu Oleander: what is it that we "see"?
Agatha Macbeth: Reflected light I think
Bleu Oleander: we interpret the information that comes into our senses
Agatha Macbeth: Actually it's amazing how little of the EMS our senses can detect
Bleu Oleander: we never actually see the physics
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps about speed
Agatha Macbeth: Red shift?
Bleu Oleander: it's about assigning meaning to the signals
Bleu Oleander: which in turn is about assumptions
Bleu Oleander: which in turn is about context?
Bleu Oleander: kind of a circle of understanding
Agatha Macbeth: Depends how our brains are conditioned to react I think
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bleu Oleander: how we resolve uncertainty
Agatha Macbeth nods
Agatha Macbeth: Optical illusions and such
Bleu Oleander: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Like that puzzle where you can't tell if the boxes are pointing inwards or outwards
Bleu Oleander: op illusions undermine our sense of being grounded in reality in some ways
Agatha Macbeth: Isn't it true we see images upside down and turn them the right way in our heads?
Bleu Oleander: actually the info gets pretty turned around and sent to many places in the brain before we can say we know what we're seeing
Agatha Macbeth: Yep
Agatha Macbeth: Confusing eh
Bleu Oleander: even visual cortex is not the last stop
Agatha Macbeth: Think the sight areas of the brain are at the back?
Bleu Oleander: has to go to a couple of places in the neo cortex before we know
Bleu Oleander: back of the brain is not the aha moment
Bleu Oleander: that was a surprise to me
Bleu Oleander: i'd always heard it was
Agatha Macbeth nods
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: I was telling Eliza that we're going to visit an rl brain bank
Agatha Macbeth: We?
Bleu Oleander: my rl group :)
Eliza Madrigal would like to tag along
Agatha Macbeth: Oh right, wow
Agatha Macbeth: Yes you should Liz
Bleu Oleander: yes, wish I could take you with us
Agatha Macbeth: How far away?
Bleu Oleander: do we go?
Eliza Madrigal: the color of preserved brains is awful, though... and when you see someone handling them you can almost feel how strange and different
Agatha Macbeth: I hear they taste quite nice
Bleu Oleander: really!!
Eliza Madrigal: :) Aggers
Bleu Oleander: look a little bit like tofu
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Eliza Madrigal: I remember years ago, reading "Driving with Einstein's Brain" or something like that.... people are still studying pieces aren't they?
Agatha Macbeth: Probably tastes like chicken
Bleu Oleander: yes, my dad used to eat "head cheese"
Bleu Oleander: yuck could never do that
Agatha Macbeth: Head cheese?
Agatha Macbeth chortles
Eliza Madrigal: (isn't typing, though avie is)
Bleu Oleander: brains in jello
Agatha Macbeth: Mellow jello
Agatha Macbeth: Lag Liz?
Eliza Madrigal: yes... lines disappearing
Agatha Macbeth: Ah...Sunday syndrome
Bleu Oleander: pigs heads I think ewwww
Bleu Oleander: enough about that hehe
Agatha Macbeth: Presumably the pigs didn't need them any more? :p
Bleu Oleander: and we did :P
Eliza Madrigal: was asking whether people are still studying the pieces of Einstein's brain
Bleu Oleander: hmm don't know
Agatha Macbeth: Is there any left? 0.0
Bleu Oleander: counting his neurons?
Eliza Madrigal: they'd divided it up... which I wonder how useful
Bleu Oleander: i just watched an interesting TED talk on counting neurons
Agatha Macbeth: Think they all look pretty much of a muchness on the outside, it's how we use em :p
Agatha Macbeth: Or not
Bleu Oleander: https://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_her...he_human_brain
Bleu Oleander: for later
Eliza Madrigal: but how we use them is dependent on factors also
Bleu Oleander: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Suzana takes you down and she leads you to the river...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: basically each species has designed what it needs to survive
Agatha Macbeth nods
Eliza Madrigal: to see what it needs to see
Agatha Macbeth: Makes sense
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: "and disregards the rest..." hums...
Agatha Macbeth: Predators need to srecognise prey and vice versa
Eliza Madrigal: but I do wonder how much we really disregard
Agatha Macbeth: -s
Bleu Oleander: we actually "drop" quite a lot already
Agatha Macbeth: Can't handle all that information
Bleu Oleander: that's an interesting thought ... perhaps we take in much more than we realize
Bleu Oleander: I think that's true
Agatha Macbeth: Could be
Eliza Madrigal: I believe so, just from dream work I feel that's true
Bleu Oleander: just think of "blind sight"
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Crypto-menmory and all that
Agatha Macbeth: Stuff you know and didn't realise
Bleu Oleander: so a kink along the lines of perception and we can see but can't interpret what we see so we think we're blind
Agatha Macbeth: Bleuji is getting kinky :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: LOL
Eliza Madrigal: there is that story about the islanders not seeing the ship...
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Bleu Oleander: that has been debunked I think
Agatha Macbeth: Aww, shame
Bleu Oleander: they would have seen something
Bleu Oleander: maybe not have known what it was but would have seen it
Eliza Madrigal: just a story, but yes that's what I was thinking... that it isn't that something wouldn't have been there, but the context wouldn't have arrived yet
Eliza Madrigal: not having a foundation
Agatha Macbeth: Not quite the Manhatten project then <grin>
Bleu Oleander: right
Agatha Macbeth: Or was it Philadelphia?
Agatha Macbeth: Can't remember
Bleu Oleander: lol
Bleu Oleander: memory ... there's another fascinating topic!
Eliza Madrigal: Tibetan teachers actually talk a lot about this ... how different their culture is with regard to self-blame from Westeners
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, helps if you have one!
Bleu Oleander: culture makes a huge difference in our understanding of reality
Eliza Madrigal: and that it has been strange to teach in the west because of that, that they didn't quite understand it
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Agatha Macbeth: True
Agatha Macbeth: 'It's a cultural thing'
Bleu Oleander: you could turn that around though ... maybe its they who don't understand?
Eliza Madrigal: well, but what that means is it is "optional"
Eliza Madrigal: yes that is what I mean...
Eliza Madrigal: that they found it hard to understand
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: we have many things in common ... context varies and past experience and memories change the way we view the world but our brains are pretty similarly set up
Eliza Madrigal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein's_brain (another for later :)
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Bleu Oleander: hi Wol !
Agatha Macbeth: Wolski ♥
Eliza Madrigal: like the phrase "never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity" heheh
Wol Euler: hey
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
Bleu Oleander: :) Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I need more coffee, excuse please :)
Bleu Oleander understands
Agatha Macbeth: We're sending Liz to sleep it seems :p
Bleu Oleander: she's just gearing up for the GM
Bleu Oleander: speaking of which ...
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Agatha Macbeth: Ten mins?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: so any final thoughts?
Agatha Macbeth: On?
Bleu Oleander: whatever?
Bleu Oleander: lol
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Eliza Madrigal: back :)
Agatha Macbeth: Wellll
Bleu Oleander: soccer, brains, perception?
Agatha Macbeth: WB
Eliza Madrigal: yes... just prepping for GS
Agatha Macbeth: Doors of perception
Eliza Madrigal: I think it is liberating to factor context, which is already a step up in thinking from being prejudicial and opinionated
Eliza Madrigal: but I enjoy tracing back context and context and context
Agatha Macbeth: Well that's to be hoped! :p
Eliza Madrigal: to open endedness
Bleu Oleander: its all very liberating to me to try to understand this
Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Eliza Madrigal: agree
Agatha Macbeth: Like going up a helter skelter with your head
Bleu Oleander: helter skelter :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Eliza Madrigal: had to drop brainy classes for current life context though :)
Bleu Oleander: haven't heard that in a while
Agatha Macbeth: Nothing to do with Charlie
Agatha Macbeth: Aww Liz
Bleu Oleander: brain class is the most fascinating class yet
Eliza Madrigal: I'd actually like to take the post modernism class again... but maybe it will stick around for a while
Agatha Macbeth: Your schedule just needs adjustment...
Agatha Macbeth: Mothers' work is never done
Eliza Madrigal: Aggers, it IS being adjusted... that's the issue, lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Well good
Bleu Oleander: adjustments are good
Agatha Macbeth: Drop what you don't need
Agatha Macbeth: Less is more
Eliza Madrigal: :) like SL?
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Bleu Oleander: can't hide from change
Agatha Macbeth: Absolutely
Bleu Oleander: lol
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Agatha Macbeth: The dinosaurs certainly couldn't
Bleu Oleander: poor babies
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Bleu Oleander: our fate one of these days too?
Eliza Madrigal: (said like a mom of horse sized dogs )
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Agatha Macbeth: Well with the way the climate's going who knows?
Agatha Macbeth: Mind you, we are a lot smarter
Bleu Oleander: who?
Eliza Madrigal: we think we are... which may be more dangerous :)
Agatha Macbeth: Homo...wotsit
Bleu Oleander looks around
Eliza Madrigal: there is a huge willfully science denying culture
Bleu Oleander: homosmarticus
Eliza Madrigal: lollol
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Wol Euler: yep
Agatha Macbeth: Well we always have Einstein
Eliza Madrigal: in quotes
Bleu Oleander: so shall we guardian meeting?
Agatha Macbeth: And his brain
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Eliza Madrigal: yes lets guardian meeting.... hope I can get these synapses firing faster
Agatha Macbeth: Zzap
Eliza Madrigal pours in more coffee
Wol Euler: awww :)
Wol Euler: bleu is very colourful today
Bleu Oleander: thanks for joining me
Eliza Madrigal: hehe, cute
Wol Euler: is that for the World Cup?
Bleu Oleander: yup
Wol Euler grins.
Bleu Oleander: rooting for everyone
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Wol Euler: get that on the marketplace quickly, I am sure it would sell
Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
Wol Euler: seriously
Eliza Madrigal: surely!
Wol Euler: even if only a hundred times at 100L$
Bleu Oleander: should do that
Wol Euler: really.
Bleu Oleander: right</grin>