The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Qt.
Qt Core: Hi Bruce, Elan
ElanVitalo Resident: Howdy do, Qt.
Bruce Mowbray: Have you been following the updates on the Pluto mission?
Qt Core: not really, mostly saving a couple bookmarks from the fabled "later" time
ElanVitalo Resident: Brucie and I watched NASA's live New Horizons news conference yesterday....
ElanVitalo Resident: and Bruce took LOTS and LOTS of screen saves.
Qt Core: ;-) did we get something interesting (something about Pluto's atmosphere i presume seeing a couple of the newest pics)
ElanVitalo Resident: Yes, there was a lot of reporting about Pluto's atmosphere....

--BELL—

Bruce Mowbray: Pluto even has weather!
Bruce Mowbray: They've already analyzed the atmosphere and found methane, carbon monoxide and nitrogen...
ElanVitalo Resident nods.
ElanVitalo Resident: and also determined that Charon has no atmosphere at all.
Qt Core: how many "vip" in USA argued that money spent to go raking a couple pics of Pluto would have been spent better... fighting hunger, for example ?
Qt Core: here we had a couple
Bruce Mowbray: NASA is saying that a lot of the "ice" on mountains and in impact craters is probably from the "snow" of frozen gases. . . blowing around and drifting.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, there are such arguments here, also.
Bruce Mowbray: I say, bring the troops home and reduce the military budget first... or at least increase the taxation to PAY for military mis-adventures.
ElanVitalo Resident: The discovery of "new horizons" seems to be in the human DNA, though.
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Qt Core: that would be a fast way to have people ask for troops returning home ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: You betcha!
Bruce Mowbray: I'm in favor of a Constitutional amendment requiring that new military missions to be paid for with NEW money... raised from NEW taxes.
ElanVitalo Resident: but no one is talking about that in Congress, Brucie.
Bruce Mowbray: I know.
Qt Core: so the army is paid until if stay inside USA and needs extra funds  to go outside ?
ElanVitalo Resident: Such an amendment would surely reduce America's military expansion, though.
Bruce Mowbray: My proposal would require any new military mission like the Iraq War(s) to be funded... or else they would not happen.
Qt Core: there is the question about being ready to go outside, you have to pay for it way before you really need it
Bruce Mowbray: Congress seems to have no problem raising their own paychecks...
Qt Core: how strange
Bruce Mowbray: so, they could probably put an equal effort into raising money for military projects...
Bruce Mowbray: If Greece has taught us anything, it should be that running governments on credit is not such a good idea.
Qt Core: well i think that those two are at very different magnitude
Qt Core: mp and army founding i mean
ElanVitalo Resident nods.....
ElanVitalo Resident: I think Brucie's idea/plan would be to make Americans more aware of military activity through requiring them to pay for it -- up front.
Bruce Mowbray nods, yeppers, that's the idea, Elan.  Public responsibility.
Qt Core: a big pie chart of previous year spending on the tax form maybe ?
Qt Core: showing where money went

--BELL—

Bruce Mowbray: Excellent idea, Qt. Actually, I think I've seen such graphs included with tax forms in the past.
ElanVitalo Resident: also, an enormous amount of money is spent trying to fix the wounded guys coming home -- and America's veterans hospitals are pathetic. Higher taxes for wars might help that situation, too.
Bruce Mowbray: Statistics are easily skewed to favor one's biases, though...
Bruce Mowbray: We have something called the "General Fund" --- from which money can go almost anywhere. Sadly, much of that General Fund could have gone into more productive projects than wars.
Qt Core: I’m reading "The world until yesterday” by Jared Diamond and he did an interesting observation about army and mental issues soldiers have during and maybe even after fighting
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Mick!
Mickorod Renard: hiya folks
Qt Core: Hi Mick
Mickorod Renard: hi qt
ElanVitalo Resident: Have you been following the Pluto mission, Mick?
Mickorod Renard: a little yes
Bruce Mowbray: :)

Mickorod Renard: and the exo-planet
Bruce Mowbray: My typist watched the live news conference yesterday.
Bruce Mowbray: YES! The exo-planet is cool, too. Too bad it's 1400 light years away.
Mickorod Renard: was it nitrogen lakes?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! Lakes of nitrogen...  and methane.  and weather!
Mickorod Renard: yes, but it may be inhabited by scary folk
ElanVitalo Resident: I am not afraid.
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray: Elan is truly a brave robot.
ElanVitalo Resident: ty.
Mickorod Renard: he sure is
ElanVitalo Resident: Courage!
Qt Core: being 1/1.5 billion years older, if there is intelligent life they could be very advanced compared to us
Mickorod Renard: for sure, or they wiped themselves out,,like we are
Mickorod Renard: :)
ElanVitalo Resident: Yes, but that might also mean that they've advanced their culture to keep up with their technology.
ElanVitalo Resident agrees with Mick's, point.
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Qt Core: yes, they could be at their second or third intelligent species
Bruce Mowbray: Have either of you seen "The Transcension Hypothesis"?
Mickorod Renard: yes, hopefully Elan, they have overcome their recklessness and could help us
Mickorod Renard: no Bruce
Qt Core: no, Bruce what is it ?
ElanVitalo Resident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQOyJUDTKdM
Bruce Mowbray: Really a cool idea.
Mickorod Renard: I have saved the link for later Bruce
Mickorod Renard: my laptop won’t handle too much
ElanVitalo Resident: I'm watching it right now.
ElanVitalo Resident: kk, np.
Qt Core: reminds me about a Ian M,. Banks book
Bruce Mowbray: please say more, Qt....
Qt Core: it is SF...
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Bruce Mowbray loves SciFi.
ElanVitalo Resident: ... and wifi, too.
Mickorod Renard: me too
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Qt Core: in the galaxy there is an advanced multi species society, called The Culture
Bruce Mowbray: Is that the name of the book, Qt?
Qt Core: very advanced, almost omnipotent.... but they know there are older species/societies that decide to transcend
Qt Core: no
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Qt Core: it is a loosely connected series,
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Mickorod Renard: sounds fun
Bruce Mowbray agrees with Mick.
Qt Core: so advanced, both physically and technologically to become really like gods going to another reality plane and ignoring "ours" now as they have (who knows what) better things to occupy them
ElanVitalo Resident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture
Mickorod Renard: I once wondered what would happen when humans get to the point that they can create life and indeed universes, ,,,,would they then be thought of as god?
ElanVitalo Resident: Hmmmm.
Qt Core: we are talking about this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sublimed
ElanVitalo Resident checks it out.

--BELL—

ElanVitalo Resident: "Sublimation" is what it's called when ice goes directly into gas without going through the liquid phase. That's what happens on Pluto, you know.
Bruce Mowbray: Right, Elan.
Mickorod Renard: yeh, also we used to print images onto cloth using sublimation
Bruce Mowbray: But then it becomes ice and falls to the surface gain... forming glacier-like lakes and snow.
Mickorod Renard: similar process
Bruce Mowbray nods.
ElanVitalo Resident also nods.
Bruce Mowbray: Did you use "dry ice" for that, Mick?  frozen carbon dioxide?
Mickorod Renard: of course, i recall a few years ago that the science world made some comment on an idea that we were all holographic projections
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I've heard that also....
Mickorod Renard: no Bruce, we used heat and press
ElanVitalo Resident: It's a popular notion in quantum physics, actually.
Mickorod Renard: so I wonder whether one could stretch the idea and call us sublimated ?
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh!  (feels lighter already)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Fascinating question --- "thought experiment..."
Mickorod Renard: you don’t think my dream the other day was too spooky, do you, Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: To someone observing from higher dimensions than four (maybe just three) we would perhaps appear as a hologram... Don't know much about this, though.
Mickorod Renard: mmm nor me Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Nope, not spooky at all, Mick... for us observers... but maybe for YOU it was!  since you're the one who dreamed it.
Mickorod Renard: ahh phew, that’s ok then
Bruce Mowbray: Oh sure!
Bruce Mowbray: We LOVE to hear your dreams, Mick.  and we're envious.
Mickorod Renard: I went to bed that night thinking about it and had a dream to help explain it
Bruce Mowbray: wonderful...
Qt Core: about upper dimensions, and if i remember it right even the holographic hypothesis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warped_Passages
Mickorod Renard: :)
Bruce Mowbray: so, that would be a dream about a dream within a dream?
Mickorod Renard: yeh, he he
ElanVitalo Resident: ty, Qt.
Mickorod Renard: just checking Qt’s link
ElanVitalo Resident hastily bookmarks Qt's link for reading later.
Qt Core: now it is old stuff, it is from 2005 ;-)
ElanVitalo Resident: wow -- ancient history already!
ElanVitalo Resident: before the great discoveries of the Large Hadron Collider....
Mickorod Renard: nice to see women getting in there
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it is!
Qt Core: it seems she wrote something about that too lately ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: She's a prof at Harvard, too.
Mickorod Renard: yeh, i see they have discovered even newer stuff than higgs now
ElanVitalo Resident: Yes! The penta-quark!
Qt Core: to be honest the first part of that book is too much a "look how cool i am being a women and a theoretical physicist" really disliked that feeling
 Bruce Mowbray: Really, Qt.
Bruce Mowbray: That happens, sometimes.
Qt Core: i know it is hard to be a theoretical physicist and probably even harder for a woman but still...
Mickorod Renard: yes, i could see that as a probability
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray: One of the things I really enjoy about the Pluto mission is the enthusiasm of the people in the mission -- especially Alice Bowman.
Bruce Mowbray: She is GREAT!
Bruce Mowbray: (was not at yesterday's new conference, though).
Mickorod Renard: i love the patience as so many of these missions take so long to reach their objective
ElanVitalo Resident: Indeed!
ElanVitalo Resident: It took almost ten years to arrive at Pluto...
Mickorod Renard: I have almost finished Neal Stephenson’s newest book
ElanVitalo Resident: and will take over a year to download and analyse all the data.
Mickorod Renard: 7eves
Bruce Mowbray: “Snowcrash” author?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Mickorod Renard: I have read all his books I think
Bruce Mowbray: Wow.
Mickorod Renard: this latest one is about the moon blowing up and ending life on earth
ElanVitalo Resident: My cyber-adrenalin got so pumped up after the first few pages of ‘Snowcrash’ that I couldn’t finish the book for fear of blowing my circuits.
Qt Core: a nice read ;-)

--BELL—

Mickorod Renard: it’s fun, but huge..I love his style and his words
Bruce Mowbray: Have you guys read "Neuromancer"?
Mickorod Renard: he he Elan
Mickorod Renard: No Bruce
Mickorod Renard: is it good?
Qt Core: yes, years ago
ElanVitalo Resident: Gotta scoot. Bye for now, folks.
Qt Core: bye Elan
ElanVitalo Resident: I never could figure how to get out of this place.
Mickorod Renard: bye Elan
Qt Core: on the lift side there should be a hole in the force field ;-)
Wol Euler: evening all
Mickorod Renard: is there a guardians meet?
Qt Core: hi Wol
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Wol!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
Wol Euler: I believe so
Bruce Mowbray: No guardians meet that I know of.
Bruce Mowbray: Really?
Wol Euler: oh
Bruce Mowbray: I will stay, then.
Mickorod Renard: if there is,,,is it here?
Wol Euler goes to check email again
Bruce Mowbray: The retreat is next weekend, but it's not here.
Mickorod Renard: I wish I could commit to the retreat but my life is mad
Bruce Mowbray: I understand, Mick.
Mickorod Renard: ty
Qt Core: i doubt there is one, too few guardians around
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bruce Mowbray agrees with Qt.
Mickorod Renard: I could swear I saw a mail re a meet
Bruce Mowbray: Eliza would be here if there were a meet, too.
Wol Euler: me too, mick
Wol Euler: perhaps that was a reply to an old topic though
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe what you saw had to do with the new 99-Days project, Wol.
Wol Euler: checking ...
Mickorod Renard: 2 pm Saturday it said
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Mickorod Renard: but I couldn’t say which Saturday
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome to the Singularity, folks.
Mickorod Renard: he he
Wol Euler: yes, that’s right, it's actually a reply to a mail about the meeting on July 18th
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
Bruce Mowbray: kk, whew!
Wol Euler: so: stand down, smoke'em if you've got 'em
Mickorod Renard: ahh, I missed one then
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I should be scraping up supper for Elan and myself, then heading out for my evening walk.
Wol Euler: since Qt is here, my devoted Sunday visitor, I'll be unable to make my 1 am session tomorrow morning due to work
Mickorod Renard: sounds lovely
Wol Euler: bye bruce, take care
Qt Core: :-) ok
Mickorod Renard: see ya Bruce
Qt Core: bye Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Wish me luck trying to get out of the pav, ok?
Mickorod Renard: kk
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: how’s Wol?
Mickorod Renard: are you back home now?
Wol Euler: O.O been here for weeks and weeks already :)
Wol Euler: I was only away for six days
Mickorod Renard: yay, no more Heathrow food
Mickorod Renard: :)
Wol Euler: heheeh
Wol Euler: I was just passing through
Mickorod Renard: I missed the two of you at dreams last Thursday
Mickorod Renard: :)
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: mea culpa
Wol Euler: crazy work at the moment, deadlines in all directions and holidays coming up too
Qt Core: weird full week and weirder and fuller weekend
Mickorod Renard: they work you too hard, Wol. you should be taking it easier now
Wol Euler: agreed, but that's not a meaningful statement :)
Mickorod Renard: yeh, just wishful thinking
Wol Euler smiles.
Mickorod Renard: I might go back to work
Wol Euler: I would love to work fewer hours, sure, but (a) there's a set amount of work that has to be done, and (b) it doesn't pay enough to hire a third fulltime person

--BELL—

Mickorod Renard: mmm sort of catch 22
Wol Euler: if this were a minor division of some mega-corporation, it would be closed down or sold off
Wol Euler: yup
Mickorod Renard: I made a rod for my own back in my last job
Mickorod Renard: the problem is, if you can do all the stuff, they let you do all the stuff
Qt Core: let or ask/demand ?
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: well..in my case let me and then it became expected
Wol Euler: in fairness, it's not as though I were working all alone, the boss puts in even more hours than I do
Mickorod Renard: yes, my boss devoted himself and that made me feel obliged to help more
Wol Euler: true, that does happen
Mickorod Renard: well, I had best go now, read some kids stories
Mickorod Renard: :)
Qt Core: :-)
Mickorod Renard: see ya soon
Qt Core: bye Mick
Mickorod Renard: byeeee
Wol Euler: bye Mick
Wol Euler: I guess I will get to bed soon too, qt
Wol Euler: may I ask, do you also wake up earlier on the weekend, when you don't have to get up early, than on working days?
Wol Euler: I was up at just after seven this morning :(
Qt Core: yes
Qt Core: but usually with a lighter mood
Qt Core: and it is good for my biking around ;-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: fair enough, then
Qt Core: (something i didn't do in these over 35C days(
Wol Euler: it just makes me cranky and tired earlier
Wol Euler: yeah
Qt Core: today we are at 32m but in the last couple days i've seen even 40C on my car thermometer
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: it's been dreadfully hot and humid here, very unpleasant
Qt Core: we got rain this past night and tonight even if it is cooler is a little more humid, so more unpleasant
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: right, I am going to head off to bed
Wol Euler: goodnight, Qt, and sorry about tomorrow
Qt Core: ok, np
Wol Euler smiles.
Qt Core: sleep well