2014.06.15 07:00 - Assumptions We Make

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

     

    Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
    Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
    Bleu Oleander: hiya Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Morning :)) Score any goals yet? ^^
    Bleu Oleander: hehe
    Bleu Oleander: hard to escape from it
    Eliza Madrigal: True. I like the games but have a hard time slowing down enough to watch them so far
    Bleu Oleander: that's an interesting statement from a long time PaBer :)
    Bleu Oleander: but yes, me too
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe "mindfulness" or whatever we've been doing here, can't be gained, in the sense of stored away or accumulated... not sure... interesting question :) But the slowing down is more about events and happenings :))
    Bleu Oleander: yes interesting to think about long term effects and if it translates to rl in a practical way
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it does, but maybe not in predictable ways
    Bleu Oleander: again the "context" idea comes up
    Eliza Madrigal: say more? :)
    Bleu Oleander: I was thinking today about "assumptions" and how our assumptions might shape our perceptions
    Bleu Oleander: even in the context of "the context"
    Eliza Madrigal: how so?
    Bleu Oleander: so do we learn our context in a way?
    Bleu Oleander: how much is inherited?
    Bleu Oleander: and is that what we're trying to "drop" here?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes I see... contexts all the way down?
    Bleu Oleander: exactly
    Bleu Oleander: how far down we don't even have access to
    Eliza Madrigal: I've found that sometimes something has dropped without my intending, just by catching sight, or because it was part of something else I didn't realize it was part of
    Bleu Oleander: when we feel more out of control, we become more sensitive to context and less comfortable with uncertainty
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I think "dropping" has taken on a life of its own in PaB, different from what Pema might have meant
    Eliza Madrigal: but that has been interesting
    Bleu Oleander: i'm really enjoying my class on the brain ... especially the part on perception
    Bleu Oleander: we're setting up an rl visit to a brain-bank
    Bleu Oleander: should be interesting!
    Eliza Madrigal: whoa, nice!
    Eliza Madrigal: I think the University of Miami, here, has one
    Bleu Oleander: hope I can stay standing ha ha!
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: thinking of donating your brain?
    Bleu Oleander: probably the only way i'd get into Harvard LOL
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi folks ♥
    Bleu Oleander: hey Aggers
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah Bleu... well I thought we agreed to go to MIT next life?
    Agatha Macbeth: Wow cyan
    Bleu Oleander: does MIT have a brain bank?
    Agatha Macbeth: Romney?
    Eliza Madrigal: heehee... hmmm, don't think so
    Bleu Oleander: ha!
    Agatha Macbeth: Good answer
    Eliza Madrigal: rooting for Brazil, Aggers?
    Agatha Macbeth: Like the top :p
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: i'm an equal opportunity rooter :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Root 66
    Agatha Macbeth: Trouble is all schedules will go out the window for next 3 weeks!
    Eliza Madrigal: was fun to watch the Australians in the stands, with air kangaroos
    Agatha Macbeth: Bless em
    Agatha Macbeth: Wonder if Mira was watching?
    Bleu Oleander: seems everyone is
    Bleu Oleander: segue back into perception ....
    Bleu Oleander: what is it that we "see"?
    Agatha Macbeth: Reflected light I think
    Bleu Oleander: we interpret the information that comes into our senses
    Agatha Macbeth: Actually it's amazing how little of the EMS our senses can detect
    Bleu Oleander: we never actually see the physics
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps about speed
    Agatha Macbeth: Red shift?
    Bleu Oleander: it's about assigning meaning to the signals
    Bleu Oleander: which in turn is about assumptions
    Bleu Oleander: which in turn is about context?
    Bleu Oleander: kind of a circle of understanding
    Agatha Macbeth: Depends how our brains are conditioned to react I think
    Bleu Oleander: yes!
    Bleu Oleander: how we resolve uncertainty
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Optical illusions and such
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Like that puzzle where you can't tell if the boxes are pointing inwards or outwards
    Bleu Oleander: op illusions undermine our sense of being grounded in reality in some ways
    Agatha Macbeth: Isn't it true we see images upside down and turn them the right way in our heads?
    Bleu Oleander: actually the info gets pretty turned around and sent to many places in the brain before we can say we know what we're seeing
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep
    Agatha Macbeth: Confusing eh
    Bleu Oleander: even visual cortex is not the last stop
    Agatha Macbeth: Think the sight areas of the brain are at the back?
    Bleu Oleander: has to go to a couple of places in the neo cortex before we know
    Bleu Oleander: back of the brain is not the aha moment
    Bleu Oleander: that was a surprise to me
    Bleu Oleander: i'd always heard it was
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    --BELL--
    Bleu Oleander: I was telling Eliza that we're going to visit an rl brain bank
    Agatha Macbeth: We?
    Bleu Oleander: my rl group :)
    Eliza Madrigal would like to tag along
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh right, wow
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes you should Liz
    Bleu Oleander: yes, wish I could take you with us
    Agatha Macbeth: How far away?
    Bleu Oleander: do we go?
    Eliza Madrigal: the color of preserved brains is awful, though... and when you see someone handling them you can almost feel how strange and different
    Agatha Macbeth: I hear they taste quite nice
    Bleu Oleander: really!!
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Aggers
    Bleu Oleander: look a little bit like tofu
    Agatha Macbeth: Hm
    Eliza Madrigal: I remember years ago, reading "Driving with Einstein's Brain" or something like that.... people are still studying pieces aren't they?
    Agatha Macbeth: Probably tastes like chicken
    Bleu Oleander: yes, my dad used to eat "head cheese"
    Bleu Oleander: yuck could never do that
    Agatha Macbeth: Head cheese?
    Agatha Macbeth chortles
    Eliza Madrigal: (isn't typing, though avie is)
    Bleu Oleander: brains in jello
    Agatha Macbeth: Mellow jello
    Agatha Macbeth: Lag Liz?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... lines disappearing
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah...Sunday syndrome
    Bleu Oleander: pigs heads I think ewwww
    Bleu Oleander: enough about that hehe
    Agatha Macbeth: Presumably the pigs didn't need them any more? :p
    Bleu Oleander: and we did :P
    Eliza Madrigal: was asking whether people are still studying the pieces of Einstein's brain
    Bleu Oleander: hmm don't know
    Agatha Macbeth: Is there any left? 0.0
    Bleu Oleander: counting his neurons?
    Eliza Madrigal: they'd divided it up... which I wonder how useful
    Bleu Oleander: i just watched an interesting TED talk on counting neurons
    Agatha Macbeth: Think they all look pretty much of a muchness on the outside, it's how we use em :p
    Agatha Macbeth: Or not
    Bleu Oleander: https://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_her...he_human_brain
    Bleu Oleander: for later
    Eliza Madrigal: but how we use them is dependent on factors also
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Suzana takes you down and she leads you to the river...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: basically each species has designed what it needs to survive
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Eliza Madrigal: to see what it needs to see
    Agatha Macbeth: Makes sense
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: "and disregards the rest..." hums...
    Agatha Macbeth: Predators need to srecognise prey and vice versa
    Eliza Madrigal: but I do wonder how much we really disregard
    Agatha Macbeth: -s
    Bleu Oleander: we actually "drop" quite a lot already
    Agatha Macbeth: Can't handle all that information
    Bleu Oleander: that's an interesting thought ... perhaps we take in much more than we realize
    Bleu Oleander: I think that's true
    Agatha Macbeth: Could be
    Eliza Madrigal: I believe so, just from dream work I feel that's true
    Bleu Oleander: just think of "blind sight"
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Crypto-menmory and all that
    Agatha Macbeth: Stuff you know and didn't realise
    Bleu Oleander: so a kink along the lines of perception and we can see but can't interpret what we see so we think we're blind
    Agatha Macbeth: Bleuji is getting kinky :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: LOL
    Eliza Madrigal: there is that story about the islanders not seeing the ship...
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
    Bleu Oleander: that has been debunked I think
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww, shame
    Bleu Oleander: they would have seen something
    Bleu Oleander: maybe not have known what it was but would have seen it
    Eliza Madrigal: just a story, but yes that's what I was thinking... that it isn't that something wouldn't have been there, but the context wouldn't have arrived yet
    Eliza Madrigal: not having a foundation
    Agatha Macbeth: Not quite the Manhatten project then <grin>
    Bleu Oleander: right
    Agatha Macbeth: Or was it Philadelphia?
    Agatha Macbeth: Can't remember
    Bleu Oleander: lol
    Bleu Oleander: memory ... there's another fascinating topic!
    Eliza Madrigal: Tibetan teachers actually talk a lot about this ... how different their culture is with regard to self-blame from Westeners
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, helps if you have one!
    Bleu Oleander: culture makes a huge difference in our understanding of reality
    Eliza Madrigal: and that it has been strange to teach in the west because of that, that they didn't quite understand it
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: True
    Agatha Macbeth: 'It's a cultural thing'
    Bleu Oleander: you could turn that around though ... maybe its they who don't understand?
    Eliza Madrigal: well, but what that means is it is "optional"
    Eliza Madrigal: yes that is what I mean...
    Eliza Madrigal: that they found it hard to understand
    --BELL--
    Bleu Oleander: we have many things in common ... context varies and past experience and memories change the way we view the world but our brains are pretty similarly set up
    Eliza Madrigal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein's_brain (another for later :)
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Wol !
    Agatha Macbeth: Wolski ♥
    Eliza Madrigal: like the phrase "never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity" heheh
    Wol Euler: hey
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
    Bleu Oleander: :) Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I need more coffee, excuse please :)
    Bleu Oleander understands
    Agatha Macbeth: We're sending Liz to sleep it seems :p
    Bleu Oleander: she's just gearing up for the GM
    Bleu Oleander: speaking of which ...
    Agatha Macbeth: Yay
    Agatha Macbeth: Ten mins?
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Bleu Oleander: so any final thoughts?
    Agatha Macbeth: On?
    Bleu Oleander: whatever?
    Bleu Oleander: lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Agatha Macbeth: Hm
    Eliza Madrigal: back :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Wellll
    Bleu Oleander: soccer, brains, perception?
    Agatha Macbeth: WB
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... just prepping for GS
    Agatha Macbeth: Doors of perception
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it is liberating to factor context, which is already a step up in thinking from being prejudicial and opinionated
    Eliza Madrigal: but I enjoy tracing back context and context and context
    Agatha Macbeth: Well that's to be hoped! :p
    Eliza Madrigal: to open endedness
    Bleu Oleander: its all very liberating to me to try to understand this
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Eliza Madrigal: agree
    Agatha Macbeth: Like going up a helter skelter with your head
    Bleu Oleander: helter skelter :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
    Eliza Madrigal: had to drop brainy classes for current life context though :)
    Bleu Oleander: haven't heard that in a while
    Agatha Macbeth: Nothing to do with Charlie
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww Liz
    Bleu Oleander: brain class is the most fascinating class yet
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd actually like to take the post modernism class again... but maybe it will stick around for a while
    Agatha Macbeth: Your schedule just needs adjustment...
    Agatha Macbeth: Mothers' work is never done
    Eliza Madrigal: Aggers, it IS being adjusted... that's the issue, lol
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well good
    Bleu Oleander: adjustments are good
    Agatha Macbeth: Drop what you don't need
    Agatha Macbeth: Less is more
    Eliza Madrigal: :) like SL?
    Eliza Madrigal: lol
    Bleu Oleander: can't hide from change
    Agatha Macbeth: Absolutely
    Bleu Oleander: lol
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Agatha Macbeth: The dinosaurs certainly couldn't
    Bleu Oleander: poor babies
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
    Bleu Oleander: our fate one of these days too?
    Eliza Madrigal: (said like a mom of horse sized dogs )
    Bleu Oleander: ha!
    Agatha Macbeth: Well with the way the climate's going who knows?
    Agatha Macbeth: Mind you, we are a lot smarter
    Bleu Oleander: who?
    Eliza Madrigal: we think we are... which may be more dangerous :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Homo...wotsit
    Bleu Oleander looks around
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a huge willfully science denying culture
    Bleu Oleander: homosmarticus
    Eliza Madrigal: lollol
    Agatha Macbeth: Hm
    Wol Euler: yep
    Agatha Macbeth: Well we always have Einstein
    Eliza Madrigal: in quotes
    Bleu Oleander: so shall we guardian meeting?
    Agatha Macbeth: And his brain
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
    Eliza Madrigal: yes lets guardian meeting.... hope I can get these synapses firing faster
    Agatha Macbeth: Zzap
    Eliza Madrigal pours in more coffee
    Wol Euler: awww :)
    Wol Euler: bleu is very colourful today
    Bleu Oleander: thanks for joining me
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe, cute
    Wol Euler: is that for the World Cup?
    Bleu Oleander: yup
    Wol Euler grins.
    Bleu Oleander: rooting for everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Wol Euler: get that on the marketplace quickly, I am sure it would sell
    Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
    Wol Euler: seriously
    Eliza Madrigal: surely!
    Wol Euler: even if only a hundred times at 100L$
    Bleu Oleander: should do that
    Wol Euler: really.
    Bleu Oleander: right</grin>

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