2011.04.19 13:00 - There's No Entrance Exam for Being

The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, oo00oo.
oO0Oo Resident: hey Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Sun!
oO0Oo Resident: Original Face is looking very well conceived
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) hi Bruce & Sam
oO0Oo Resident: hi Sun
Sunshine Vayandar: hope you are both well
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, new auntie!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Sun, Bruce and Samuo :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi New Auntieeee
Sunshine Vayandar: *:• •:*.-:¦:- -:¦:-.•:*¨¨*:• YAYYY *:• •:*¨¨*:•.-:¦:- -:¦:-.¨¨*:•
Bruce Mowbray: congratulations, Sharon!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe ty :D
Bruce Mowbray: [`·.] APPLAUSE!! [.·´]
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Qt
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Qt.
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Qt ;)
Qt Core: Hi all
oO0Oo Resident: hi Qt.. hi SSL
Sunshine Vayandar: Bruce - do I ask you if I'd like to take part in Original Face?
Bruce Mowbray: Fine, but really no need to ask, Sun, unless you have some question.
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Wol
Bruce Mowbray: Anyone who is interested is welcome to join the group.
Sunshine Vayandar: oh ok - I thought may be there is an entrance exam ;)
oO0Oo Resident: hi Wol
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Woly ;)
Bruce Mowbray: The first meeting will be Monday, 11 a.m., April 25 at Cal's.
Wol Euler: evening all :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Wol!
Sunshine Vayandar: yes 11am
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Riddle
Bruce Mowbray: fortunately, no entrance exam. . .
Riddle Sideways: hi All
Bruce Mowbray: just bring your good self.
Qt Core: hi Wol, Riddle
oO0Oo Resident: hi Riddle
Sunshine Vayandar: thank god
Wol Euler: hello riddle
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Riddle.
Sunshine Vayandar: or thank Bruce Almighty ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Riddle ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
Riddle Sideways: entrance exam?
Bruce Mowbray: I'm quite excited about the group, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: It was originally Cal's idea. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and Darren and I sort of came along. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and we've been meeting a few times to discuss the possibilities.
Sunshine Vayandar: ㋡
Bruce Mowbray: @ Riddle - Sun just asked if there was an exam to get into the Original Face group.
Riddle Sideways: hope not
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Riddle Sideways: but am two faced
Sunshine Vayandar: I just wanted to clarify
Riddle Sideways: whatever that means
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Bruce Mowbray: yeah. . . although the group will have some structure -- the "container" --
Bruce Mowbray: it will also be quite open to each person's experience.
Bruce Mowbray: and be very inclusive. . .
Bruce Mowbray: No set "view" or "way" or prescribed "method" for anything. . .
Bruce Mowbray: except just being with each other and sharing.... our practice.
Sunshine Vayandar: sounds great Bruce ;)
oO0Oo Resident nods .. nice
oO0Oo Resident nods .. nice
Wol Euler: sounds like a good idea
Bruce Mowbray: It is Cal's "good idea."
Bruce Mowbray: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Guardian_Pages/Guardians%27_Contributions/Calvino/Groups/Original_Face/Description
oO0Oo Resident: read the first meeting / outline and so appreciated the thought put in, the comprehensiveness, the clarity, the forms...
Sunshine Vayandar: I remember seeing the talking stick - when I visited his place
Bruce Mowbray loves the talking stick. . .
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Bruce Mowbray, in fact, loves to hear anything non-human talk.
Sunshine Vayandar: like fish?
Wol Euler: :)
oO0Oo Resident: ;)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Riddle Sideways: blub
Bruce Mowbray also enjoys human talk, of course.
Sunshine Vayandar: blub & friends
oO0Oo Resident: blubbing over blabbering?
Bruce Mowbray: What's happening in your worlds today, folks?
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways is wondering about Sharon's newest niece
SophiaSharon Larnia: just being :)
Wol Euler: getting ready for a week in NY!
Bruce Mowbray: Yayyyy!
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh wow Wol!
Wol Euler: yeah, looking forward to it :)
Sunshine Vayandar: can I come?
Bruce Mowbray: both NYC and Sharon's new niece -- YYYYAAAAYYYY!
Wol Euler: sure!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
SophiaSharon Larnia: heh
Bruce Mowbray: I will be there next month, Wol.
Sunshine Vayandar: let me pack my bags ;)
Bruce Mowbray loves that town.
Wol Euler: okay, don't be late for the flight
Bruce Mowbray: Have you been to NY before, Wol?
Wol Euler: it's a great place to visit, but it's also a wonderful city to come home from :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm ok will camp at the airport
Wol Euler: yes, many times
SophiaSharon Larnia: what part Wol?
Bruce Mowbray: yayyyy!
Bruce Mowbray: May I ask where you stay when you visit NYC, Wol?
Wol Euler: when I was a poor student I used to fly standby to JFK, spend a day in Manhattan and then take the overnight bus home to Toronto
Wol Euler: it varies, I'm usually there with a group (as this time)
Sunshine Vayandar: wow really
Wol Euler: the Friends of the Canadian Opera Company
Riddle Sideways: .me gets to stay at in-laws house
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Wol Euler: my parents are members since decades now, this is an early birthday present
SophiaSharon Larnia: nice
Bruce Mowbray: Wow! That's great.
Wol Euler: 4 operas
Riddle Sideways: wow
Wol Euler: in a week
Bruce Mowbray: When I go (twice a year) I always stay at the HI youth Hostel:
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.hinewyork.org/
Wol Euler: looking ...
Bruce Mowbray: It's not as inexpensive as staying with your in-laws, but otherwise it's the cheapest place in town -- only $30/night.
Bruce Mowbray: and it's safe, clean, and friendly.
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Bruce Mowbray: and only one block from the subway.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: ;)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Riddle Sideways: oh in-laws cost (mostly mental health)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Wol Euler: wow, they even have an airport shuttle bus :)
Sunshine Vayandar: lol
Wol Euler: hehe
Riddle Sideways: but they take us to show or opera or museum
Bruce Mowbray: Ironically, I will be taking my sister-in-law (from San Diego) when I visit NY next month.
Bruce Mowbray: She has never been there...
Riddle Sideways: how does that work?
Sunshine Vayandar remembers her few days in NYC
Bruce Mowbray: he, Riddle.... It's easier to fly into LaGuardia and take the M60 bus -- it drops you off only three blocks from the hostel.
Riddle Sideways: nice place to visit
Riddle Sideways: then get out
SophiaSharon Larnia: my view too, Riddle :)
Sunshine Vayandar: Bruce seems at home there ;)
SophiaSharon Larnia: and stay away during the summer
oO0Oo Resident: the law of ins and outs ;)
Bruce Mowbray: Actually, I find New York to be the friendliest, safest, and easiest-to-get-around-in city I've ever been in.
Riddle Sideways: gack that city smells in summer
Bruce Mowbray: I do feel at home there, Sun -- !
Wol Euler: I like it a lot
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) I can see that
Wol Euler: but I'm always glad to leave :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Wol Euler: too big, too busy, too fast ...
Bruce Mowbray is olfactory disadvantaged -- which might be an "advantage" for New York summers.
SophiaSharon Larnia: but can feel the pulse of the throng
SophiaSharon Larnia: of humanity there
oO0Oo Resident: it's a masculine energy city
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Bruce Mowbray: How is that? "Masculine energy"?
Wol Euler: pushy :)
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps it's only the out-of-towners who  push you around in NY.
oO0Oo Resident: i'll try and bring an explication at some point Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Wol Euler: that's true actually. Pushy is the wrong word
Bruce Mowbray goes to New York for the peace and quiet.
SophiaSharon Larnia: something outgoing anyway
Wol Euler: "hurried" is perhaps a better fit
Bruce Mowbray: (feminine?)
Bruce Mowbray: yeah, folks seem to hurry a lot. . .
Bruce Mowbray: gotta look out for those subway doors.
SophiaSharon Larnia: heh
Bruce Mowbray: but subways will NOT go unless you let the doors close by themselves -- a metaphor for our time.
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps.
Wol Euler looks up with eyes wide from astonishment. "Are there really people who pay US$1375 - plus taxes! - for a single night in a hotel?"
Bruce Mowbray ponders metaphor-koans for our time.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Wol, and MORE than that, actually.
SophiaSharon Larnia: crazy huh
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers, crazy -- from my point of view, anyway.
Wol Euler: the place only gets an 8.2 (out of 10) approval rating too :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: people who pay that much have very high expectations
Bruce Mowbray: (on the other hand, folks who stay with in-laws might have lower expectations.)
Wol Euler: how much would you have to pay for a 9?
SophiaSharon Larnia: :0
Wol Euler: I suspect that may be true
Bruce Mowbray: The hostel where I stay costs about $30/night -- That's for a bunk in a 12-person dormitory.
Wol Euler: I'm inclined to think that the more you pay, the likelier you are to find fault
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes me too
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed, Wol.
Riddle Sideways: yep low expectations
Bruce Mowbray: Does "expectations" really mean "preferences"?
SophiaSharon Larnia: and that view extends to expectations in services in general, in my experience, that entitlement
Sunshine Vayandar: bye byee all time for me to go - take care ;)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Sun :)
Wol Euler: bye sun!
Qt Core: bye sun
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) bye Auntie ;)
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Sun!
Riddle Sideways: love watching waiter insult people they expect tips from
oO0Oo Resident: bye sun
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) waves
Riddle Sideways: bye sun
SophiaSharon Larnia: its a view that I'm very uncomfortable with
SophiaSharon Larnia: i don't know how it is in other countries
SophiaSharon Larnia: but I can see how some Americans can be viewed a certain way
Bruce Mowbray: in Scotland, it is an insult to give a tip.
Wol Euler: huh
Bruce Mowbray: I found that out the hard way.
SophiaSharon Larnia: bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: But she was very nice about it, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: She saw me as an ignorant American. . . and set about educating me.
Wol Euler smiles.
Riddle Sideways: sorry gotta go by
Wol Euler: bye riddle, take care
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Riddle
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Riddle!
oO0Oo Resident: bye Riddle
Bruce Mowbray: I find it curious that some folks find it insulting to be the recipient of a gift.
Qt Core: some may see it as a vague form of bribery, not for the service you got but for having some favors next time you get there
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've tipped bartenders for that reason
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I understand, Qt, but since I was only a traveler passing through, --- maybe that's why she was so nice in educating me about Scottish customs.
Wol Euler nods.
oO0Oo Resident: aye
Bruce Mowbray: So, tipping bartenders is a sort of insurance policy?
Bruce Mowbray: or, perhaps, a down payment?
SophiaSharon Larnia: nah, just make a stronger drink next time
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh!
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Bruce Mowbray drinks to tipping bartenders, then!
Bruce Mowbray wonders if he gets enough stiff drinks -- Will he see his original face?
SophiaSharon Larnia: thinks the $ amt comes out even in the end anyway
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Bruce Mowbray: The value of money is, after all, only what we perceive it to be.
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think alcohol probably prohibits any deep introspect Bruce :)
Wol Euler: :)
Bruce Mowbray: or -- perhaps alcohol ALLOWS and ENCOUAGES some to do introspection -- although that would be very difficult to prove, I suspect.  Hard to be "awake" if drunk.
SophiaSharon Larnia: its removes some sort of face anyway
Bruce Mowbray: for sure!
Bruce Mowbray: It seems to work differently for different folks.
oO0Oo Resident thinks of 'state dependency'
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe, if all the faces can be removed, the drinker will FINALLY find his original one.
SophiaSharon Larnia: but when you seriously explore certain aspects of being, i think anything that creates the possibility of losing control is dangerous
Bruce Mowbray: (in a gutter).
oO0Oo Resident: common one is.. so and so can only get in touch with feelings after a few drinks.. etc
Bruce Mowbray: But isn't CONTROL itself, a barrier to awareness?
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: this a conversation that could be extended to other substances
Bruce Mowbray: I would love to hear more about that idea, Sharon,
SophiaSharon Larnia: and yes i agree that its a barrier to understanding
Bruce Mowbray ponders "substance."
Bruce Mowbray listens (for a change.)
oO0Oo Resident: there are many styles and modes for covering our true nature, and I feel we do work at the coal face of 'control' Bruce in exploring
SophiaSharon Larnia: but to be confronted with whatever is underlying your defense mechanisms has be approached very carefully
oO0Oo Resident: having a willingness means we work with the boundaries of our tendencies
Bruce Mowbray: life at the edge, huh?
oO0Oo Resident: yes Sharon
oO0Oo Resident: gentleness is needed
Bruce Mowbray: much gentleness and empathy for oneself, indeed.
SophiaSharon Larnia: i hope someone will edit my typos
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Bruce Mowbray: but every exploration might involve dangers.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Bruce Mowbray: (no worries -- I will edit the typos -- says the ex-English teacher).
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
oO0Oo Resident: distinction between what threatens 'ego', and true danger, is an interesting one
Bruce Mowbray: To bravely type typos where no typos have been typed before!
SophiaSharon Larnia: it feels dangerous to me to talk about this :)
oO0Oo Resident: what is the feeling/s SSL?
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh! "Distinction between "ego-threats" and "true danger...."
Bruce Mowbray: What is "true danger"?
oO0Oo Resident: not the concepts
oO0Oo Resident: but generally we are threatened by conceptual layers
oO0Oo Resident: true danger is a tiger jumping onto you... literally. Concept danger is laying awake at night worrying about something abstract
Bruce Mowbray: Didn't the 'conceptual layers get born out of our fears - in the first place?
oO0Oo Resident: i would say ignorance comes first, Bruce
oO0Oo Resident: one framework
Bruce Mowbray: we fear what we are ignorant of?
oO0Oo Resident: we are afraid, because we misunderstand things
Bruce Mowbray: We build layers of conception over what we are ignorant of, perhaps.
SophiaSharon Larnia: i'm not saying this right, but a part of me feels that thoughts are things, and by lowering some boundaries, we call to ourselves what we fear, or something like that
Bruce Mowbray: good point, Sharon. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and then we come to realize that thoughts are NOT things.
SophiaSharon Larnia: an energetic relationship
Bruce Mowbray: they are no-things.
oO0Oo Resident: the energy is key
oO0Oo Resident: the awareness
SophiaSharon Larnia: they are things in how they are perceived in a certain reality
oO0Oo Resident: particularly of the feelings themselves
oO0Oo Resident: not the storyline
Bruce Mowbray: AHHHH! So, follow your energy and see what it reveals....?
oO0Oo Resident: watch it rise and fall
SophiaSharon Larnia: could be flowers and light, or demons
oO0Oo Resident: anything
Bruce Mowbray: The watching is all, then?
oO0Oo Resident: the dishes still have to be cleaned
Bruce Mowbray: ha!
Bruce Mowbray: I Do understand about the dishes!
Bruce Mowbray: I find it "awakening" to see what the "imperatives" in life seem to be. . . and to watch those.
Wol Euler: brb
Wol Euler: something in my eye
oO0Oo Resident: hehe
oO0Oo Resident: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: yikes
oO0Oo Resident: phoenix meltdown?
Bruce Mowbray: For example, attending to a severe leg cramp -- and attending to a homeless person on the streets of New York -- sometimes have the same "imperative" feeling for me.
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: the watching is all? to do that i can only dissociate from my self
SophiaSharon Larnia: and im not sure if that's really possible
Bruce Mowbray: Who is the watcher, then? (a koan)
Bruce Mowbray: Alas, time for me to attend to the "imperative" of getting supper.
Wol Euler: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bruce :)
Wol Euler: bon appetit, bruce
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks
Bruce Mowbray: May you all have a safe and happy evening.
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) you too
Wol Euler: you too (most accidents happen in the home :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) bye for now, have fun
Wol Euler: bye Sharon, take care
Qt Core: bye
Wol Euler: wb sam
oO0Oo Resident: ty... crashed
oO0Oo Resident: i wanted to respond to Sharon's comment before i crashed
Wol Euler: please do, she'll read the log
oO0Oo Resident: my sense that mindfulness/awareness seems to me to be more about becoming more thoroughly ourselves, rather than dissociating
oO0Oo Resident: or something other
Wol Euler: yes, like washing the mud off of a car :)
Wol Euler: so you can see what's underneath
oO0Oo Resident: if a tree is falling, and we see it coming... we have the presence to step out of the way
oO0Oo Resident: often what we hope to be and fear will be though... if it feels very real we buy into the concept/storylinel...
Wol Euler nods.
oO0Oo Resident: so
oO0Oo Resident: emotions are built out of the storyline
oO0Oo Resident: buying into them reinforces the story and creates causes for future occurrences
oO0Oo Resident: much of our life is spent in this
oO0Oo Resident: speaking about myself
Wol Euler nods.
oO0Oo Resident: so... to have the bravery to sit with our mind... when a tree is NOT falling on us
oO0Oo Resident: is pretty safe
Wol Euler: so much unhappiness and anxiety is generated around things that have not happened yet, and perhaps never will
oO0Oo Resident: yet threatens our cherished stories at times
--BELL--
Qt Core: time to go, bye all
Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
oO0Oo Resident: :) Q ... gtsy.. ty for being here
Wol Euler: I should go too, I need to be up earlyish.
Wol Euler: goodnight sam, take care
oO0Oo Resident: right-o Wol :) Cheery bye bye :)))
Wol Euler smiles.