2014.04.13 01:00 - It's Love that Counts

The Guardian for this meeting was Wol. The no comments are by No Self.

Wol Euler: hallo berti, buongiorno qt
Bertram Jacobus: hi there wol and qt ! :-)
Qt Core: Hi Wol, Bert
Wol Euler: I hope we are all enjoying the weekend?
Bertram Jacobus: more or less, yes ! :-)
Qt Core: strangely yes
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: why strange?
Qt Core: up before 6am, went to the park for a walk and already had a nap
Wol Euler: wow
Qt Core: awaiting green snow now ;-)
Wol Euler: is that perhaps because of the gym? :)
Qt Core: i hope not :-)

--BELL--

Wol Euler: awwww, it might be a nice new life!

Qt Core: not really, i almost had to fight at home to be permitted to do it, even if there was no reason against it
Wol Euler: oh, that is less good.
Bertram Jacobus: but there must be reasons against it -otherwise there couldn´t be fights (!) (?) ...
Qt Core: the usual "and who is there to help me ?" as if there would need for help while she is still sleeping (we are talking from 7am to 8:15am)
Wol Euler nods.
Bertram Jacobus: oh
Qt Core: for something lighter, yesterday i saw this music video and thought again how we in italy take the beautiful places we live in for granted, almost bored by them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2l_bkgPock
Wol Euler looks
Wol Euler: damn, "not available in Germany because it might contain copyrighted music"
Wol Euler: ah well
Qt Core: i was thinking that beside being shot in a nice day it is very "normal"
Qt Core: ok, maybe you can search for it is 'E' l'amore che conta" by Giorgia
Bertram Jacobus: what does that mean ( in english perhaps, please ) ? ;-)
Wol Euler: http://vimeo.com/30294441 (found it! Venice)
Qt Core: "it's love that counts"
Qt Core: literal translation
Bertram Jacobus: ah ! thanxx ! :-)

--BELL--

Wol Euler: pretty!
Wol Euler: for what it's worth I suspect that most people don't look at the city they live in
Wol Euler: "I know it like the back of my hand". Right, and how often do you look at your own hand?
Qt Core: at most we look at the holes in the streets and send curses to the major ;-)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Bertram Jacobus: aquestion of awareness and fugacity ... (and other) ...
Wol Euler: that was lovely, qt
Qt Core: the usual desensitization for too much exposition
Wol Euler nods.
Qt Core: even the Coliseum, the Eiffel tower or Buckingham Palace lose their appeal after a few years

Wol Euler: very true. When I lived in London, I never went near the "scenic" areas, and walked through the famous Oxford Street and Carnaby Street with my head down
Wol Euler: guiding strangers around your city is fascinating for that reason, it gives you a chance to look again.
Qt Core: nature, especially when living things are involved may be different, it change
Wol Euler: even though trees and rocks hardly move more than buildings :)
Bertram Jacobus: on the other hand, there seem to be some elements which are so strong that one never gets used to them in that way : for example the cologne cathedral - whereas : may that be a matter of awareness as well ...
Wol Euler: it's funny that mobile birds in a static forest are something to look at, but mobile people among static buildings are (usually) not
Bertram Jacobus: ( strong = impressive )
Qt Core: are you implying that people are interesting at least as birds ? ;-)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: nearly as colourful, just as noisy
Qt Core: (thinking about groups of tourist flocking around ;-)
Wol Euler: also like birds! compare them to the flocks of pigeons underfoot
Wol Euler: just bigger, and differently messy
Bertram Jacobus: traveling just for fun - so luxurious ! ...
Qt Core: only advantage they don't shot on your car, very poetic, i know
Qt Core: *i
Wol Euler grins.

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: i thirst for friendly and smart people since a while, more then ever before as far as i remember. and am so thankful to meet some now and then ! ...
Qt Core: :-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Qt Core: i often tell myself lies like i don't have and don't need those ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: addictions are not comfortable ... but sometimes really heavy to get rid of them ... ( i mean mine ) ...
Wol Euler smiles and shrugs. We all have them, I think, just not all for the same things.

Bertram Jacobus: and i did not understand qt : WHAT don´t you have, for example, please?
Qt Core: friends
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay
Bertram Jacobus: but that is a lie that you don´t have friends - i hope, i got that correctly qt ? :-)
Wol Euler listens.
Qt Core: yes
Bertram Jacobus: coool - but also interesting on the other hand : why are such lies inside one ? ...
Qt Core: as it is the one about not needing friends
Bertram Jacobus: yes. that i did understand :-)
Qt Core: laziness and perceived self protection ?
Bertram Jacobus: whereas teachings like some of the buddha say that one could become free from such needs ...
Wol Euler nods.

Wol Euler: well, I think statements like that need to be treated carefully
Wol Euler: I hope he wasn't telling us to stop having friends, to be equally disinterested in everyone
Wol Euler: but just not to be dependent on those friendships for our definition of ourselves

Bertram Jacobus: he taught the anatman - the no self (!) ...
Qt Core: getting to know/love/being part of the entire universe would/could make you ignore the particular, like single persons ?

Wol Euler: IMHO any person who truly did feel the same way for their own child (say) as for the garbageman they happen to see at work through the window of their car one day, would be an inhuman monster.
Wol Euler: buddha or not.
Bertram Jacobus: to me that would be an enlightened person or lets call it "holy" (another expression of the same "thing") ...
Wol Euler: and what of that holy person's child? How would it grow up?
Bertram Jacobus: it would grow up with a remarkable love !
Qt Core: that's depend would he love the garbageman as his child or ignore his garbagemen as one usually ignore the garbagemen ?
Bertram Jacobus: that´s it qt !

--BELL--

Qt Core: (remembering not to stop him from playing with dirty things...)
Qt Core: ops
Wol Euler: ah, true. You spotted my assumption that one would not love a stranger seen at 30 metre distance for a few seconds and never seen again :)
Qt Core: as if seeing him every week for 30 seconds a time would change things ;-)
Wol Euler nods.
Bertram Jacobus: that´s a again and again upcoming idea of mankind : to be able to be loving borderless, without any conditions and including everything and everybody. having compassion with everybody -a human ideal appearantly ...
Qt Core: the definition of sainthood, mostly
Bertram Jacobus: and enlightenment. one aspect at least

Wol Euler: I guess I don't believe that saints would be good parents. An interesting prejudice on my part.
Wol Euler: I assume that no person could give every stranger the kind of love and attention that a child deserves and needs, and therefore that the child of such a person would get less than it needs.

Bertram Jacobus: we had such a question in one so called buddhist teaching : the karmapa answered to such a question : when there are children ( of one´s own) - they have priority
Wol Euler listens.
Bertram Jacobus: that was it - it had been the question what to do when the needs for a spiritual path became hughe "but" one has children ...
Wol Euler: oh, is that the question or the answer?`
Wol Euler: that they *do* have priority?
Bertram Jacobus: that was the answer
Bertram Jacobus: yes
Wol Euler: good :) I find that somewhat reassuring :)
Wol Euler: and also: what I assumed would be the case.

Bertram Jacobus: which part of your assumptions would be the case ? in which situations please? sory - again the language maymake me not understanding ... :-(
Bertram Jacobus: and i should have some breakfast ... ;-)
Wol Euler: I assumed that the Buddha was not telling his followers to be inattentive parents :)
Bertram Jacobus: ah. no :-)
Bertram Jacobus: okay dears : thanks a lot for your company !
Qt Core: bye Bert and thank you
Wol Euler: bye berti, bon appetit!
Wol Euler: see you this evening!
Wol Euler: nicht vergessen!
Bertram Jacobus: may all beings be happy please -a nd yes : tonite ... :-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Bertram Jacobus: *giggle* -meanwhile you conditioned me well enough i guess for not forgetting it anymore, mostly at least ! ...;-)
Wol Euler: heheheh

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: you and zen and aggers and all the others ( sorry) ...
Qt Core: wow, haven't noticed the time, need to go making this weird sunday going
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: bye qt, enjoy the day
Qt Core: you too, bye