2009.02.21 13:00 - OBE

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.


    Aurora Kitaj: One moment, i have to help someone, brb

    Samuel Okelly: t'es francais yich?

    Yichard Muni: Oui :-)

    Yichard Muni: bonsoir :-)

    Samuel Okelly: bonsoir :)

    Samuel Okelly: to viens d'ou en france?

    Samuel Okelly: norde est ouest sud>

    Yichard Muni: aveyron

    Yichard Muni: pour le moment :-)

    Samuel Okelly: :)

    Yichard Muni: plutôt sud d'habitude

    Samuel Okelly: je te demande parce que je vais souvent a lourdes au sud

    Samuel Okelly: hi scat

    Yichard Muni: je suis juste sur ke chemin de compostelle

    Yichard Muni: et il y a beaucoup de choses spirituelles dans le coin

    Samuel Okelly: ah bon

    Yichard Muni: Hi Sca :-)

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Samuel, Yichard

    Samuel Okelly: hows things scath?

    Yichard Muni: Sam; let us speak english for the others who are coming :-)

    Scathach Rhiadra: I'm fine, how are you?

    Samuel Okelly: not to bad thanks :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: and you Yichard, are you well?

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Aurora:)

    Aurora Kitaj: Sorry there, had to go an help someone to attend

    Samuel Okelly: i see you are both followers of a bui see you are both followers or at least interested in the buddhist tradition?

    Aurora Kitaj: and I'm supposed to be the guardian lol

    Samuel Okelly: :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello Scath

    Yichard Muni: well, thanks :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: Yichard, not sure whether you have attended Play as Being before

    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, Samuel, but PaB is not Buddhist

    Samuel Okelly: sure

    Scathach Rhiadra: all traditions or none are welcome here

    Yichard Muni: Yes sam, I am involved into Buddhism. although it is just for me a "best fitting personnal choice", I am open to all other spiritual paths

    Samuel Okelly: i was just wondering if anybody could enlighten me (no pun intended) as to whether or not the buddhistrecognises an objective truth?

    Yichard Muni: Sam, it is a bit tricky to explain

    Samuel Okelly: :)

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello there Arisia, nice to see you

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello Edwound

    Aurora Kitaj: delighted to see you too

    Yichard Muni: but no nihilism, no eternalism is what you will hear in your first buddhist teaching

    Arisia Vita: thanks, I'm a little shy so bear with me

    Aurora Kitaj: is it your first session at Play as Being

    Arisia Vita: it is for me

    Scathach Rhiadra: hmm, last week Samuel I asked you a question, and would like to ask it again

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello there Extopia

    Extropia DaSilva: Hello:)

    Aurora Kitaj: don't be shy

    Aurora Kitaj: lol

    Yichard Muni: hello to all the new comers

    Samuel Okelly: please excuse me folsk but a friend requires a little assistance :) bbl

    Aurora Kitaj: Please come and take seat,

    Aurora Kitaj: np Sam

    Yichard Muni: Sam, you may go to a buddhist teaching (in SL or RL) as this is somewhat difficult to explain, and probably not fit for here (unless the guardian asks for)

    Edwound Wisent: just clearing my colen. I promise tio hush for a long period.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Edwound, Arisia, extropia

    Aurora Kitaj: Edwound, Arisia and Extropia,

    Extropia DaSilva: ..Oh hello Yichard. If I am not mistaken, you used to come to supportforhealing.

    Aurora Kitaj: these session are recorded and the chat logs are posted on the a wiki, so please let me know

    Yichard Muni: Hello Extropia. Yes I did :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: if you would prefere you name not to be on the record

    Extropia DaSilva: Yes I remember, you had some very interesting ideas.

    Aurora Kitaj: I can put you as anonymous

    Yichard Muni: I agree if my name is

    Scathach Rhiadra: ty Yichard, we have been trying to move away from that question for quite a while:)

    Edwound Wisent: love tap..

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello there Steven, nice to see you :)

    Edwound Wisent: ok. I'll hush up and read thru in a bit. I need a bite of food 4bodybag B4 food forthought

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Steve

    Aurora Kitaj: Please take a seat ;)

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello, waiting to rezz before I sit on someone

    Yichard Muni: Hello Ed

    Aurora Kitaj: Well what have you all been doing this week?

    Aurora Kitaj: Anything that you like to share with us?

    Yichard Muni: Yes Aurora

    stevenaia Michinaga: it's been quiet at my sessions, low mid winter energy, perhaps

    Aurora Kitaj: How about you Extropia?

    Aurora Kitaj: Or Edwound?

    Extropia DaSilva: I have been taking a break from my usual work, and just reading for pleasure, mostly.

    Aurora Kitaj: what kind of literature Extropia?

    Aurora Kitaj: Anything to recommend to us?

    Extropia DaSilva: I expect most of you have read it: 'Second Lives' by Tim Guest.

    Aurora Kitaj: no, I haven't, but I'm not very well read ;)

    Aurora Kitaj: not at least since having kids

    Scathach Rhiadra: I haven't read it either:)

    Aurora Kitaj: a friend of mine has been reading a very controverisal book called 'wetlands'

    Aurora Kitaj: has anyone heard of that?

    Extropia DaSilva: No. Why is it controversial?

    Aurora Kitaj: I've read the first two paragraphs and I can see lol

    Yichard Muni: -

    Aurora Kitaj: it's about a woman who has suffered from hemarroids for many years and is seeking treatment

    Yichard Muni: awww

    Yichard Muni: very interesting topic, lol

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Yichard Muni: sorry, guard duty

    Aurora Kitaj: perhaps I better stop there, because it might go outside the area of decency that is set by PaB sessions!

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Doug

    doug Sosa: :)

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello doug

    Aurora Kitaj: well we started to talk about the book that is being read by Extropia called

    Aurora Kitaj: second lives? is that right Extropia?

    Extropia DaSilva: Yes..

    Aurora Kitaj: can you tell us some of the story Extropia

    Extropia DaSilva: the author, Tim Guest, was raised in a cult, and he sees parallels with the cult and online worlds such as SL.

    Aurora Kitaj: wb Yichard

    doug Sosa: and? cross the line of decency? Finally..?

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello Riddle, nice to see you

    Scathach Rhiadra: wb yichard

    Aurora Kitaj: come and take a seat ;)

    Extropia DaSilva: yes wb

    Riddle Sideways: Hi everybody

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Riddle

    Aurora Kitaj: We are talking books!

    Aurora Kitaj: Read any good one's recently?

    doug Sosa: The last was usually the best.

    Aurora Kitaj: Well observed ;)

    Riddle Sideways: the one you amid is often best

    Yichard Muni: sorry, I had to go for some elf guardian duty. But the issue is already solved :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: Good to see you back

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Riddle Sideways: oooo how I like already solved issues

    Extropia DaSilva: *Whispers* Hello sis:))

    Aurora Kitaj: Hi Jamie, come and take a seat ;)

    Yichard Muni: Hi jamie :-)

    Edwound Wisent: QUiCK quest: .. are some here those that were at a different discussion about privay or am I mixing my metaphorisms?

    Jamie Marlin: Hello everyone!

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Jamie

    Edwound Wisent: /nod

    Riddle Sideways: perhaps you are mising butcan'tprove it by me

    Aurora Kitaj: please go ahead Riddle ;)

    Yichard Muni: Aurora, you asked if we had interesting stuff to report. I went in my first session yesterday and this night I dreamed of a great house in the building, with plenty of friends

    Aurora Kitaj: your first session of PaB Yichard?

    Aurora Kitaj: discussion about dreams?

    Aurora Kitaj: it sounds like it may have been a good dream for you Yichard?

    Edwound Wisent: (^ lucid or flat out rem may I ascii?

    Yichard Muni: nope, I just attended a session yesterday, without knowing what was going on here. There was only some casual discussion

    Yichard Muni: ordinary dream

    Aurora Kitaj: ah

    Edwound Wisent: ah. not fully aware you were not "actually" awake. got it

    Aurora Kitaj: how seriously do ppl take their dreams here?

    Yichard Muni: conscious, but not leading the dream, as in an ordinary dream

    Edwound Wisent: : hushes back into listen mode:

    Riddle Sideways: many take their dreams most serious

    Riddle Sideways: I don't

    Aurora Kitaj: some pple adults don't dream much, me being one

    Extropia DaSilva: I find them fascinating. Sometimes they can be the best virtual reality you can experience.

    Yichard Muni: Not too seriously, usually... But sometimes I have instructive ones, and two checked premonitions about persons

    doug Sosa: yes high on a scale from 0 to infinity..:)

    Edwound Wisent: "vision quests" are not always so cut and dried. being serious during one just makes em angstfilled.

    Aurora Kitaj: doug, do you mean sorry that you have lots of dreams or that you take them seriously?

    Extropia DaSilva: Heheh..my primary had a dream once, and half way through she woke up but kept in the dream. And then it turned out she DREAMT she woke up and for hours after waking up 'for real' she was unsure if it was still a dream or not. Still is, in a way.

    doug Sosa: ah, well i take them seriously and we cannot see the limit.

    doug Sosa: The way we dream and the way we "see" reality must be very close because..

    doug Sosa: they seem to have the same kinds of stuff in them..

    Aurora Kitaj: I try not to because remember childish dreams that scared me

    doug Sosa: But you are bigger now..?

    Aurora Kitaj: yes, but make it policy not to take too seriously if I do dream, which isn't often

    Extropia DaSilva: Well, your real life is a dream, albeit one that is fed with data from 'reality' via your senses. What people usually refer to as dreams is the same thing, only without the feed from RL to control the sensations.

    Riddle Sideways: those old scary dreams are neat to revisit at different stage of your life

    doug Sosa: exactly! :) the reality os the dream with extra constraints through thesenses

    doug Sosa: that was to extopia

    Edwound Wisent: sigh. I used to dream of suceeding in life. that was very childish of me. now I preffer being childlike , and let the older ones keep me fed and sheltered.

    Aurora Kitaj: also have to comfort my kids when they have nightmares, telling them not to worry, it's not true

    doug Sosa: not true but wonderfully creative.

    Aurora Kitaj: hello Tarmel, nice to see you

    Aurora Kitaj: we're talking dreams

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel:)

    Tarmel Udimo: hi all

    Riddle Sideways: Hi Tarmel

    Yichard Muni: Hi tarmel

    Aurora Kitaj: and whether we take them seriously or not;)

    Tarmel Udimo: okay thanks

    Extropia DaSilva: Kids often dream they are being chased by monsters. Evolution would suggest such dreams are a way to practice, safely, running from predators like Sabre Tooth Tigers.

    Aurora Kitaj: I accept that, but it doesn't help the individual to visualise having a moster under the bed ;)

    Yichard Muni: do anyone of you have sleep paralysis visions? I think they are another sort of dream, with different modalities

    Aurora Kitaj: no, please explain more Yichard:)

    Aurora Kitaj: Not heard of sleep paralysis

    Extropia DaSilva: Sleep paralysis is normal. Without it, you would get out of bed and act out your dreams.

    Edwound Wisent: note: kids often SHARE WITH ADULTS.. the dreams of monster chasing.. I recall having MANY other sorts of dreams I felt no need for input from anyone else, so never shared...

    Extropia DaSilva: But for some people, they wake up and the paralysis continues.

    Yichard Muni: "sleep paralysis" is a generic name for a different kind of dream, where we usually feel as if we were awake in our bed and room, but paralysed

    Yichard Muni: and other features,like being crushed, seeing people in our bedroom, etc

    Scathach Rhiadra: oh, yes I have had that experience

    stevenaia Michinaga: tell me what it means and I;ll tell if I will admit to having it..

    Aurora Kitaj: sounds frightening!

    Yichard Muni: neurologists consider this as a kind of dream

    Yichard Muni: it is what tradition calls nightmares

    Aurora Kitaj: sounds like Monster's INc

    Edwound Wisent: Yichard: are you hinting at OBE's that the participant(s) haven't gotten the hang of re-entering the body in a timly fassion?

    Yichard Muni: my point is, if we are unwarned, it is REALLY scary. But if we make visualisation to change them, it can be very pleasant, and much easier than with ordinary dreams

    Aurora Kitaj: do dreams changes as we get older, I wonder?

    Yichard Muni: most OBE experiences probably are just sleep paralysis. I think we can speak of real OBE only if we had a checked ESP

    Scathach Rhiadra: Edwound, I think OBEs have been linked to these dreams

    Yichard Muni: but I had once an OBE-like experience, with a checked ESP. But at other times, it showed things which did not existed

    Edwound Wisent: :shrugs: different cultures.. differing terminology / outlook on benefits vs hazards etc

    Yichard Muni: oBE refers at the experience of flying out of our body? We can have this during sleed paralysis, NDE or some other cases probably

    Aurora Kitaj: Sorry, can you remind me what OBE stands for, just for the record ;)

    Aurora Kitaj: Is that out of body experience?

    Yichard Muni: Out Of Body Experience

    Scathach Rhiadra: out iof body experience

    Edwound Wisent: Out(of)BodyExperiance

    Aurora Kitaj: thanks

    Yichard Muni: the experience of flying out of our body, and seeing it from an alternate point of view

    Extropia DaSilva: That must really solidify the illusion that the Self is seperate from the body.

    Aurora Kitaj: is this linked to near death experiences in any way, so far as the mind is concerned?

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello Triathlon

    Yichard Muni: OBE often happens in NDE. People who have sleep paralysis are more likely to have NDE, statistically

    Edwound Wisent: often those in near death ( ant flatlined for that matter) speak of OBE.. but shamans have instigated the same withing themselves since before the written word existed

    Yichard Muni: Hello tri athlon :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: You are welcome to join us, come and take a seat ;)

    Yichard Muni: -

    Aurora Kitaj: hello there

    Extropia DaSilva: *Raises her hand*

    Extropia DaSilva: Um I have to go now.

    Extropia DaSilva: THanks for letting me join in, it was most interesting.

    Edwound Wisent: eastern religions have a plethera of documentation on this form of disconnected format of communication. westrn science kept trying to belittle the actuality of the form as having no baring on "reality" .. which to my mind is eother IGnorant or far worse, igNORErant.

    Yichard Muni: Bye then, Extropia :-)

    Jamie Marlin: Bye sis

    Scathach Rhiadra: nice meeting you, good night

    Yichard Muni: catholicism also belitled this, saying it was diabolic

    Yichard Muni: Bye scathach :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: Thanks for coming Scath

    Aurora Kitaj: If Storm or Pema were here they would give this link to explain Pab to new comers

    Aurora Kitaj: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Informatio..._in_a_Nutshell

    Aurora Kitaj: wb Sam ;)

    Yichard Muni: wb Sam :-)

    Samuel Okelly: thanks :) apologies for being called away like that

    Aurora Kitaj: np sam

    Jamie Marlin looks at the page.....

    stevenaia Michinaga: Aurora, are you the Guardian today?

    Aurora Kitaj: not sure what you missed but we are still, sort of talking about dreams

    Yichard Muni: I was too :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: yes, I am

    stevenaia Michinaga: I see the recorder isn;t work, you may wnat to claim it, I don;t know if it loged the past 45 minutes

    Aurora Kitaj: no problem

    stevenaia Michinaga: or use your own

    Yichard Muni: we can copy paste the chat

    Tarmel Udimo: I think you can claim it at anytime Aurora

    stevenaia Michinaga: but I have found it convenient to use it

    Aurora Kitaj: that sounds sensible ;)

    stevenaia Michinaga: for future reference...

    stevenaia Michinaga: sorry t interrupt

    Aurora Kitaj: listens

    Tarmel Udimo: and i think once you have claimed it it will send the whole log to you once the last person has left (I think)

    Aurora Kitaj: that would be good

    stevenaia Michinaga: the recorder jsut magicly send you the log

    Aurora Kitaj: I had been trying to edit from the normal chat log

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, click the recorder and claim it

    Aurora Kitaj: and it took me hours

    Tarmel Udimo: yes its happened for me:-) with no time stamp

    Edwound Wisent: heh. sorry. Ijust got sidetracked into a different thread that HAPPENED to be about... sleeping postures

    stevenaia Michinaga: no log-on or log-offs

    Aurora Kitaj: please share Edwound

    Yichard Muni: lol, I am an expert in sleeping postures :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: I hear that in wales, up until about 100 years ago, ppl slept upright in their beds

    Tarmel Udimo: (you may have to have your playasbeing group activated thought - not sure :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: as they thought it less likely they would die in their beds if they did this

    Edwound Wisent: shrus.. welll. ok.. relize my main usage as an avatar in here is to loosen folk's grip on seriousness.. ok?

    Aurora Kitaj: that's why their beds were so short

    Edwound Wisent: with that in mind, sure.. I'll copy paste the bit. it relates to this conversation VERY much..

    Edwound Wisent: ready: this may come as a bit of a flood.. I'll try to cut it up a bit..

    Aurora Kitaj: cool

    Edwound Wisent: first.. note where the conversation was headed B$ I stepped in.. no shock intended:

    Edwound Wisent: "> Hi guys anyone out there need money or know someone new that does .. need someone about 45 min to set poses for a bed (dont get your hopes up no sex lol) will pay ... tks [13:41] KN: ps need a human [13:41] AS: damn no sex... [13:41] AS: damn, human..."...

    Yichard Muni: lol

    Edwound Wisent: 13:41] SR: how much pay? [13:41] KN: lol sorry arduenn [13:41] AS: I would do it for free though [13:41] KN: lol [13:41] SN: is willing....... [13:42] MD: male, female? [13:42] KN: twice campoing whatever that pays [13:42] KN: doesnt matter [13:42] MD grabs Ard under her arm [13:42] SN: bored, TP ? [13:42] AS: yaay! [13:42] SR: lil i pay nearly 70L for camping to everyone who comes to my place...LOL [13:42] SN: slurl? [13:42] MD: ok 10 L - no [13:42] Edwound Wisent: sso.. sleep apnia poseballs?

    Aurora Kitaj: lol

    Yichard Muni: in SL, you need to specify this, human

    Jamie Marlin smiles. "That sounds like SL!"

    Aurora Kitaj: sleep apnia pose balls wow

    Yichard Muni: awww

    Edwound Wisent: (^ ok.. kNOW: I steppered in and.. twisted.. ready? here copmes the altering of the altar piece..^)

    Edwound Wisent: [13:42] Edwound Wisent: sso.. sleep apnia poseballs? [13:42] AS: oh 

    Aurora Kitaj: HOld on whilst I catch my breath lol

    Edwound Wisent: (^.. one last chunk then I'll slap :end: and be dung...

    Edwound Wisent: ..> [13:45] KN: LOL [13:45] Edwound Wisent: a dog dreaming? (feet kicking in sleep? [13:45] SF: Has to be at least 3 monkeys here.. which ones are NOT jumping on bed ? [13:45] AS: playing safari under the blankets anim too? [13:45] AS: with flashlight giver [13:46] Edwound Wisent: sleeping under the covers witth a flashlight ? pretending to sleep but actuallyu reading past yer bedtime?:...:END:

    Edwound Wisent: (^ ohh.KAYyyy. knOWE.. discuss obe in SL format. "wake up sleeping " mode. endjoy. begin begat:

    Edwound Wisent: : hushes. toggles back to watch and learn mode :

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello there Kyle

    Aurora Kitaj: I'm afraid that you 've just missed the session

    Aurora Kitaj: Thans for coming Jamie

    Tarmel Udimo: well it was nice seeing you all and listening to AV I don't normally meet

    Tarmel Udimo: but back to RL for me...

    Scathach Rhiadra: yes I must be off too

    Aurora Kitaj: It's gireat that you came along Tarmel

    Tarmel Udimo: see you all again bye

    Scathach Rhiadra: good night all

    Aurora Kitaj: thanks everyone for coming along

    Aurora Kitaj: bye Scath

    Aurora Kitaj: bye Steven

    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks Arora

    Edwound Wisent: yeash! scared em all again.. i need learn not to do data

    Aurora Kitaj: You are welcome Edwound

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Samula, didn;t see you arrive

    Aurora Kitaj: you haven't scared anyone

    Samuel Okelly: :)

    Edwound Wisent: ah phooey! Methinks yer full uh Blarney! 

    Edwound Wisent: blarney

    stevenaia Michinaga: samuel

    Samuel Okelly: tc every1 :)

    Aurora Kitaj: that's a good sound effect Edwound ;)

    Aurora Kitaj: Yichard, would you be able to claim the chat log?

    Aurora Kitaj: Know it's very cheeky,

    Edwound Wisent: and a whole hour. feel privelaged. I SELDOM sit still this long

    Aurora Kitaj: but rl is very busy right now

    Yichard Muni: what do you mean?

    Yichard Muni: you need my copy of it?

    Aurora Kitaj: yes please

    Aurora Kitaj: if possible

    Aurora Kitaj: if you haven't time to post

    Edwound Wisent: Aurorah. i keep copies of all local chats. it's where I get many of my best scripts

    Yichard Muni: doing

    Aurora Kitaj: thanks v much Yichard

    Aurora Kitaj: it will save me a lot of time

    Edwound Wisent: co. wHelp.. off to check on my daughter now. hope that was worth the invite,

    Yichard Muni: I cut some personnal thingies in the beginning :-)

    Aurora Kitaj: np

    Aurora Kitaj: did you want to post the log?

    Aurora Kitaj: Happy for you to do this ;)

    Edwound Wisent: heh. yes: note: might be nice to parce out any of the names I dropkicked here too..

    Aurora Kitaj: yes, you are welcome

    Yichard Muni: is this what you need?

    Aurora Kitaj: thanks so much, this is great

    Yichard Muni: I just missed one minute or two, when I was away

    Yichard Muni: yw

    Aurora Kitaj: have you edited out what you needed to Yichard?

    Yichard Muni: yes

    Aurora Kitaj: great, it will save me a lot of time

    Edwound Wisent: the hobos are known for being master craftspersons, but can be a little (as Aurora mentioned)."cheeky"

    Yichard Muni: there are probably some friends loging in or out

    Yichard Muni: do you want me to remove this?

    Aurora Kitaj: np

    Aurora Kitaj: if you can?

    Yichard Muni: need some time

    Aurora Kitaj: Is this your first guardian session

    Aurora Kitaj: ?

    Edwound Wisent: just alter the names .. it's nice to know folk have friends. just let em be anonymouesed

    Aurora Kitaj: cool

    Yichard Muni: ah

    Arisia Vita: bye all, this was great

    Edwound Wisent: parce you know .. " let "IM x: " = "somebody IMed:"

    Aurora Kitaj: THanks for coming Arisia

    Yichard Muni: hehe I have the log of a griefer shooting when I was off, I keep it? lol

    Arisia Vita: my pleasure

    Edwound Wisent: griefer shooting is much like .. a spirit quest interrupted by sundry details..

    Edwound Wisent: think. like you're having this dream, ok?

    Edwound Wisent: and then somebody turns up the volume on a TV in the next room..

    Edwound Wisent: and BAM! your dream starts leaking material into the mix.. messes up the whole sequencing.

    Edwound Wisent: therefore.. KNOWING that? helps make sense of the dream later :ends Xplan8ion on why anonomousify but keep in altered altar stuf:

    Edwound Wisent: ok. my wyrd works dung. been apleasure. Aurora

    Aurora Kitaj: Edound, it is always a pleasure to see and hear you

    Aurora Kitaj: thanks for coming along

    Aurora Kitaj: see you soon i hope

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