2009.02.26 07:00 - Melon Collie Bleu

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    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Cal ;)
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Caledonia Heron: hi there Adelene :)
    Caledonia Heron: (rezzing)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: how are you today?
    Adelene Dawner: not bad.
    Caledonia Heron: you were moving last time we talked, all settled?
    Adelene Dawner: Getting there. Definitely liking the new digs. :)



    Adelene Dawner: hiya, Adams.
    Caledonia Heron: good, sounds very positive :)
    Caledonia Heron: hey there Adams :)
    Adelene Dawner nods ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: how are you today Adams?
    Adams Rubble: Hello cal and Adelene :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello :))
    Caledonia Heron: hi Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Caledonia, Adams, Adelene ~ Good day :)
    Caledonia Heron: Eliza have you been to this discussion group before ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, a few times. Thanks :)
    Caledonia Heron: great! so you know the topic and that we record the sessions :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Absoutely, often read the logs :)
    Caledonia Heron: lol, ok .... perfect :)
    Adams Rubble: Eliza is a nice addition to our group :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you!
    Caledonia Heron: great to hear .... sounds like you and Adams know each other Eliza :)
    Adams Rubble: We have met at meditation
    Eliza Madrigal: A bit by now, yes. I've been on SL for just a little while though :)



    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Sam :)
    Caledonia Heron: seems like no matter how long you're in sl there is more to learn
    Eliza Madrigal: I sure hope so :)
    Samuel Okelly:
    Samuel Okelly:             (  @ @ )
    Samuel Okelly:    ...o00o.(_).o00o...
    Samuel Okelly:  (( HELLO  EVERY1! ! ! ! ))
    Samuel Okelly:
    Caledonia Heron: hi Samuel :) how are you?
    Adams Rubble: Samuel
    Samuel Okelly: slow to rez but otherwise fine thnaks cal :) how is every1?
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Caledonia Heron: I'm good ... having morning coffee :)
    Caledonia Heron: funny arrangement of avatars .... y'all come closer ! :)
    Adelene Dawner peers at Sam.



    Caledonia Heron: anyone care to share about 9sec explorations?
    Eliza Madrigal: Just that its become almost the first thing I think of in the morning...immediately pause before I get up
    Caledonia Heron: weaving it's way into you ..... I know what you mean :)
    Caledonia Heron: oh good, better arrangement :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: thanks for moving you guys ....
    Samuel Okelly: :)
    Caledonia Heron: lol, now we are very cozy
    Adelene Dawner purrs, looking amused.
    Caledonia Heron: when I first started coming the group was in a small space so we were packed in and close ... then we got bigger digs and everyone spaced themselves kind of equidistant ... now we have tons of room and cozy up :)
    Adams Rubble: It is easier on those of us with weak video cards
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: awwww, come on now Adams ..... :)
    Adams Rubble: Of course the coziness is nice too :)
    Adelene Dawner likes it cozier... but then, the rezzable cushions she uses do help with that. ^.^
    Eliza Madrigal: My coffee hasn't quite kicked in this morning... :)
    Caledonia Heron: :) same here ... fingers just warming up :)



    Samuel Okelly: must admit that most of the time i have the chat box enlarged across the screen and am unable to view the graphics (which are not very good on my slow machine)
    Eliza Madrigal: I notice a delay, and not with SL :))
    Eliza Madrigal: The chat box does bother me at times...but it is easier to backspace there.
    Adelene Dawner chuckles. "You miss some good stuff that way, Sam."
    Bell: ding
    Samuel Okelly: oh i know ade :(
    Caledonia Heron: agreed, and I do plenty of backspacing
    Samuel Okelly: ive been told a need a new graphics card but dont think ill bother just now
    Caledonia Heron: the minute you buy one it's outdated it seems
    Samuel Okelly: (think ill blame the credit-crunch for that ;-)



    Adams Rubble: It's like sitting in the front or back of the classroom. You see more in the front...especially in Art History :)
    Squee: Don't let anyone drive you crazy when you know it is walking distance.
    Caledonia Heron: yeah different view
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the second row in any class
    Adams Rubble: yes, a little security and lots of view
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Exactly!
    Caledonia Heron: I like the side toward the front, then you can scan front and back



    Samuel Okelly: it alwasy strikes me as interesting when i hear ppl reading into what ppl have said BECAUSE of how they appear on here
    Adelene Dawner was a side-middle person - lots of security, near a wall, but away from the back-of-the-room kids.
    Adelene Dawner chuckles at Sam.
    Caledonia Heron: I don't understand Samuel
    Adams Rubble: Of course in the back you get to see ALL the backs of the heads
    Adelene Dawner: I consider it to be more valid to do that here, than in RL... here, you do get to choose what you look like.
    Eliza Madrigal: The wall is good..then if you need to go it isn't disruptive...exit strategy
    Adams Rubble: Very good point Adelene :)
    Adelene Dawner's av is a good example - carefully constructed for personal meaning *and* communication qualities.
    Samuel Okelly: i can see how that may be the case but i have witnessed many people "read-in" to a cirsumstance because of what ppl have not done for example
    Adelene Dawner: =^.^=



    Adelene Dawner: How so, Sam?
    Caledonia Heron: are you speaking of a personal experience Samuel?
    Caledonia Heron: perhaps an example
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Warm and cozy avs open conversation Adelene? :)
    Caledonia Heron: lol, I would agree with that Eliza :)
    Adelene Dawner: Warm, cozy, friendly.... but not obviously so. ^.-
    Adelene Dawner has claws for a reason, even if she never uses 'em. ^.^
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm!
    Adams Rubble watches her step
    Caledonia Heron: I painted my claws pink
    Adelene Dawner giggles.
    Eliza Madrigal: ::noting::::
    Samuel Okelly: notthat long ago I attended a fancy-dress party…. Some members of the group were vocal in their condemnation of someone who had not “bothered to enter into the spirit” of the party
    Adams Rubble: That's where the good video card comes in :)
    Caledonia Heron: right Adams!
    Caledonia Heron: people party in different ways :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, for not being part of "the group" enough, Samual?
    Adelene Dawner ahhs at Sam... human social primate group-membership signaling stuff.
    Caledonia Heron: not everyone gets that
    Adelene Dawner: (Another advantage of this av - I get to opt out of all that ^.^ )
    Caledonia Heron: that's what's kind of cool about this group .... it's pretty much a "come as you are" kind of thing :)
    Adams Rubble: yup
    Eliza Madrigal: :) However you are at whatever moment you are
    Adelene Dawner nods ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: yes Eliza, for sure



    Samuel Okelly: the group members who spoke disparagingly about the person were not aware of personal RL circumstance that meant they were unable to get on to SL at all that week
    Caledonia Heron: sounds like a simple misunderstanding, or being inconsiderate Samuel
    Samuel Okelly: the visual dimension of SL was being allowed to shape and infomr their opinion
    Eliza Madrigal: People who are looking for offense will find it
    Caledonia Heron: SL *is* a highly visual medium
    Adams Rubble: yes Eliza
    Adelene Dawner nods at Cal.
    Samuel Okelly: i agree eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I once wore black to a day wedding...felt terrible but had an issue with outfit I was supposed to wear and was travelling....
    Eliza Madrigal: Didn't want to walk around all day saying "I'm sorry...bla bla"
    Adelene Dawner nods. "RL's prone to that kind of thing. SL... not so much... at least not in my experience."
    Adelene Dawner: Not that it never happens, but it's pretty rare.
    Eliza Madrigal: Only apologized to the bride because you can't worry about those things too much :)
    Adams Rubble: yes Eliza
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, sometimes stuff just happens and you have to go with it ..... awkward but survivable :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ...though when the marriage dissolved she reminded me...in jest of course
    Adams Rubble: Much of it depends what circles one travels in SL
    Eliza Madrigal: Lol'
    Caledonia Heron: LOL
    Adams Rubble: oh my!
    Samuel Okelly: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Caledonia Heron: should have worn red :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hah! Yes



    briefcase: Number of files currently in briefcase is : 12
    Samuel Okelly: i have found weddings to be very "catty" occasions for some ppl
    Samuel Okelly: family weddings in particular
    Caledonia Heron: meow
    Adelene Dawner chuckles at the word choice.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Caledonia Heron: depends on the family I think
    Samuel Okelly: i agree cal
    Eliza Madrigal: And the expectations pepole place on things to go perfectly
    Bell: ding
    Caledonia Heron: this little family could easily break down over this and that but it does not based on things like committment and mutual respect
    Adams Rubble: yes Cal
    briefcase: Number of files currently in briefcase is : 12



    Caledonia Heron: not sure how to segue to this but will mention that my personal sort of 9sec has been taken hold of by thinking about the relationship of being and death as a friend of mine died a few days ago
    Samuel Okelly: im sorry to hear that cal :(
    Caledonia Heron: sort of ruminating on how the "be" is all present in life and death .... how it is all part of the same fiber
    Eliza Madrigal: I Extend a hug in spirit, Cadedonia
    Caledonia Heron: thx Samuel, yes very sad thing
    Caledonia Heron: :) thx Eliza
    Caledonia Heron: not to be morbid however the be we are in and the be he is in are inextricable
    Samuel Okelly: recently i have heard of 2 very public yet very different cases of an untimely death
    Adams Rubble reaches out and squeezes Cal's hand
    Caledonia Heron: and in fact one can be left to wonder if and how he is now the veil or beyond, in the stream or is the stream of be ..... circles in circles
    Eliza Madrigal: Find it comforting that *be* supercedes...
    Squee: The answers are everywhere.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm...that is beautifully said
    Caledonia Heron: :) ty ... you're all very sweet ... these things leave you a little unexplained I guess
    Samuel Okelly: in such circumstances, religious faith can be a great comfort
    Adams Rubble: yes, we are on borrowed time



    Eliza Madrigal: The idea of a stream we all emerge from and go back to throughout life...and then back to...however never really leaving. Very comforting
    Caledonia Heron: yes perhaps so Samuel, or whatever it is that supports your spiritual beingness .... yes Adams, it's all borrowed in a sense
    Adams Rubble: we can take each day as new and revel in being alive to experience it
    Caledonia Heron: yes Eliza, like a beautiful ribbon
    Samuel Okelly: it is interesting what you say eliza
    Adelene Dawner grins at Adams.
    Caledonia Heron: waving through the universe .....
    Eliza Madrigal: MMM ::reveling in imagery this moment::::
    Samuel Okelly: that we emerge and return to the stream
    Adams Rubble: yes Eliza
    Caledonia Heron: the imagery of water is a powerful analogy to our discussion topics here ... that is true for me anyway ....
    Adelene Dawner nods. "Agreed."



    Samuel Okelly: my understanding of "being" does not allow for such a seperation
    Eliza Madrigal: And that's what it can feel like after someone dies and you think of them...or they think of you...like waves hitting you...pouring over
    Adelene Dawner nods at Sam.
    Adams Rubble: hmm. yes Eliza
    Caledonia Heron: yes Samuel, no separation to speak of although our minds construct little pockets, belief structures to carry us through the coporal world
    Adelene Dawner: That's pretty much what Pema means with Absolute vs. Relative, I think.
    Samuel Okelly: do our minds simply construct i wonder
    Caledonia Heron: yes, Eliza, it sort of sneaks up on you and washes over you ... sometimes at the oddest moments
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: So not like you brought it up...not out of "coping"
    Adams Rubble gets the absolute/relative thing a bit more as we move on
    Samuel Okelly: wouldnt such a view close the door on the possibility of an objective spirituality?
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: not like parsing it to understand, it comes unbidden and permeates you
    Eliza Madrigal: More of an exhange.



    Adelene Dawner is not entirely sure what Sam means by 'objective spirituality'...
    Caledonia Heron: I don't know Samuel, can only speak from my experience which is more understandable to me
    Samuel Okelly: sure i understand.. just thinking out loud here
    Caledonia Heron: so I agree with your comment Eliza, it's not like you bring it up for review, it just happens
    Caledonia Heron: sure Samuel
    Caledonia Heron: maybe I am too much in the ribbon today to intellectualize about it :)
    Bell: ding
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, which is also comforting...brings to mind "being"..."an indivisible whole"
    Samuel Okelly: i do not see my spiritual self as changing in substance ever
    Caledonia Heron: yeah Eliza, sadness for no more contact but knowledge that nothing and no one is truly gone


    Adelene Dawner peers at Samuel - wondering if quoting Stranger would help, or if he'd just get offended. ^.^
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I see that either...I see more substance being constant
    Caledonia Heron: hmmm, that quoting business is tricky :)
    Samuel Okelly: :)
    Adams Rubble: Somehow part of the person lives on in our memories
    Samuel Okelly: though i was avery different person when i ws 10yo, i remain the same person now i am older
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel as though I've been raised by my great-grandmother, though she died when I was 6
    Adelene Dawner decides that 'offended' is slightly more likely, so doesn't.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: wow, that's interesting Eliza, how do you mean?
    Eliza Madrigal: I mean that her influence and "presence" so permeated my experience..
    Caledonia Heron: maybe some of the same essence Samuel
    Samuel Okelly: really not sure why you think that may offend ade...
    Eliza Madrigal: that it has in many ways outweighed others
    Eliza Madrigal: And her "wisdom" about things seems to be there with me
    Caledonia Heron: a sort of guiding philosophy then Eliza?
    Adams Rubble: That is a wonderful tribute Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: So...she died, but...not really to me :)
    Adelene Dawner: (not gonna talk over the others, Sam.)
    Samuel Okelly: k



    Caledonia Heron: feels right about how we carry others
    Caledonia Heron: carry them with us in our "us-ness"
    Adams Rubble: as we carry the genes of our ancestors
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes.
    Adams Rubble: so we may carry our memories and influences
    Adams Rubble: and part of them lives on through us
    Adams Rubble: like the stream
    Caledonia Heron: yes it feels correct, all of it in the be, part of the be, tangibly accessible through thought and feeling
    Caledonia Heron: sigh :)



    Adelene Dawner: Sam: I'm hesitant to use that quote 'cause it has the word 'God' in it, and I'm not sure if you're going to take that word as it's intended.
    Samuel Okelly: not at all ade
    Adelene Dawner nods.
    Caledonia Heron: mmmm, yes I see what you're going at there Adelene ....
    Samuel Okelly: why would mentiong God be offensive?
    Adelene Dawner: We were talking about the water metaphor, of being...
    Adelene Dawner: Being in the stream... *being* the stream...
    Caledonia Heron: not offensive Samuel, just different meanings for each of us
    Adelene Dawner: Reminded me of 'Thou art God'.
    Caledonia Heron: lol, for sure Adelene, I don't have to go to church to get in touch with myself :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^



    Samuel Okelly: you mean in a pantheistic sense?
    Adelene Dawner: Nope. ^.^
    Samuel Okelly: the creator is in the created
    Adelene Dawner: or - perhaps.
    Caledonia Heron: not sure it serves us to label by belief system
    Adelene Dawner: Depends on exactly how you're using the term.
    Eliza Madrigal: Where some would take out the word IN and it may be offensive to anothr
    Adelene Dawner nods at Eliza. "Yeah, I think the 'in' decreases the accuracy there..."
    Samuel Okelly: with no offensive whatsoever taken..., im strugglin to see what you elude to here :)
    Adelene Dawner grins at Sam. "Good start, then."
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Good place to be..am there a lot of the time
    Bell: ding
    Samuel Okelly: i find that qute often offense is more often caused not by "what" is said but "how" something is said



    Adams Rubble: I think it is sad to think one's spirituality never will change
    Adelene Dawner grins at Adams.
    Caledonia Heron: I think it's another way to support the conversation about the absolute and relative
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh Adams, Hmmm. Yes, I delight in the shifting
    Caledonia Heron: I agree with that Adams.... perhaps the greatest gift of growth you can give yourself :)
    Samuel Okelly: when I said that I don’t see my spirituality changing I meant in a qualitative sense
    Eliza Madrigal: Caledonia ..what is meant by substance..whether relative or absolute...whether diff at all
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm..strange the way I wrote that...
    Caledonia Heron: I like that you don't have to lock onto a religion or belief structure to experience spiritual growth ....
    Samuel Okelly: just as we change considerably from childhood to adulthood though we always remain “us”
    Caledonia Heron: in the end , no difference Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: depends what the definition of "us" is
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Samuel...the observer who is observing
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, sort of Samuel ..... and yet so changed at the same time
    Adelene Dawner grins widely at Adams.
    Eliza Madrigal: Wow yes, the who is what



    Samuel Okelly: there is always something intrinsicly personal about who and what we are that remains constant throughout our lives
    Caledonia Heron: while incredibly charming at 12, 18, 22 or whatever .... the me I am now suits me fine :)
    Adams Rubble: It is some the stuff we think is "us" that has to go
    Eliza Madrigal: There is a question of whether it will always be personal...or whether will dissolve...?
    Samuel Okelly: I would add that not everyone who identifies wiith a religious belief does o because they feel obliged to "8:03] Caledonia Heron: I like that you don't have to lock onto a religion"
    Adams Rubble: Hmmmm :)
    Caledonia Heron: sure Samuel, it's a really good thing if it works for you ... other stuff works too, it's not about the structure per se
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure Samuel.
    Adams Rubble: Sometimes maybe more than we think
    Adams Rubble: We can wear religion like clothes or a briefcase
    Samuel Okelly: suggesting that ppl "have to lock on" carries a negative inference here i think
    Caledonia Heron: no negative inference meant .... observational of the spectrum only :)
    Samuel Okelly: " I like that you don't have to lock onto a religion"
    Eliza Madrigal: Maybe we become practiced in allowing from one "section" and not another...and is useful. I'm not sure "necessary" ?
    Samuel Okelly: and if a person felt that they DID would you like that too?
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I hear you Samuel ... again, noticing the spectrum of commitments and belief structures
    Adelene Dawner: Options are good.



    Adams Rubble: Having the freedom to choose
    Samuel Okelly: i agree
    Samuel Okelly: that is a national question for us in the uk right now
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it is like time and lives and all that....useful to experience many paradigms. Some are more concentrated perhaps.
    Samuel Okelly: recently a catholic bishop denied the holocaust and some are suggesting making the expression of such opinion a crime
    Samuel Okelly: (as applies in france, germany and other countries)
    Caledonia Heron: I saw that in the news
    Squee: We do to food what the Victorians did to sex.
    Adams Rubble: Legal solutions do not work for stupidity
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Samuel Okelly: i agree
    Eliza Madrigal: :D



    Caledonia Heron: once someone told me a story that likened having an immovable position on a topic to that of a cat that had stuck it's claws in something and would not pull them back for anything even at it's own expense .... the idea of even moving the claw did not occur to the cat .... sometimes people get on a position and can't let go
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Samuel Okelly: yet there are crimes against inciting racial hatred that curb the expression of sopme ppl??
    Samuel Okelly: so where does personal freedom of expression end ? where are its limits?
    Caledonia Heron: I can't answer that in a neatly wrapped box with a bow .... it is a sticky wicket
    Adams Rubble: Sorry but I must get back to reading my awful data "mapping" document. sigh
    Eliza Madrigal: Too general a question for me I think, which I know sounds funny since I speak from abstract so often :) There are many blurred edges. We impose on ourselves what we impose on others.
    Adams Rubble: bye everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Adams, Nice chatting :) Enjoy
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I must go also ... thank you ... what a great discussion :)
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Adams.
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Cal.

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