2009.02.27 01:00 - "B" for beginner

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    Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session.

    Wol Euler: hello susi, bertrum
    Bertrum Quan: Hi everyone.
    Wol Euler: morning fael
    Fael Illyar: Morning Wol, Bert :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Susi :)
    Wol Euler: wb susi
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Fael.
    Susi Alcott: hi Wol, Bertrum and Fael
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Susi
    Wol Euler: does anyone have anything to say about the practices or meditation this morning?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)
    Wol Euler: hello gaya! long time no see.
    Susi Alcott: hi Gaya
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
    Wol Euler: fael, what are you wearing? bow and arrows?
    Fael Illyar: seems so :)
    Wol Euler: heh
    Fael Illyar: Outfit is named Artemis
    Gaya Ethaniel: How is everyone?
    Wol Euler: sick and grumpy :(
    Wol Euler: and you?
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel: Still Wol? Sorry to hear it...
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: ty
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm well thank you :)
    Fael Illyar: I'm well too :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles.
    Wol Euler: good, I'm glad to hear it.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles.
    Susi Alcott: since I saw you Gaya you have changes much your Av
    Susi Alcott: may I be curious why ?
    Susi Alcott: sure you dont' need to answer anything
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: For a long time, I've been looking for a good mature skin... and I found this so :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Most people in SL are young and found it boring.
    Susi Alcott: ty for telling
    Wol Euler tends to agree.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Welcome :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Adele :)
    Wol Euler: hello adelene
    Susi Alcott: hi Ade
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah the cute overload :)
    Adelene Dawner: Hi, All.
    Fael Illyar: reminds me of my first idea I had when I was making a second look for myself. To make it look a bit older but that wasn't so easy so I didn't.
    Adelene Dawner giggles at Gaya.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Ade :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Ade
    Gaya Ethaniel pats the cushion next to her.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles.
    Wol Euler: awww
    Squee giggles. that tickles.
    Adelene Dawner chuckles cutely. "Geez, don't everybody just stop on my account."
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles.
    Fael Illyar: not much of a conversation going before either :)
    Adelene Dawner: okay ^>^
    Adelene Dawner may putz with a script, then - she's mid-rebuild on her lair, after Three accidentally returned half of it.
    Wol Euler is distracted by coughing and sneezing.
    Wol Euler: oh dear, sorry to hear it.
    Adelene Dawner: Ah, s'ok, I'd been htinking about a revamp anyway.
    Fael Illyar: Oh, that's a shame ... well, you can remake it better now :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles.


    Ade places a glowy spectral crystal in the circle. 

    Adelene Dawner: (The new theme)
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's very Superman-ish
    Wol Euler: wow
    Fael Illyar: Oh, nice crystal :)
    Susi Alcott: _(!\_
    Adelene Dawner: Thanks, Fa. Made it myself. Scripted it, too.
    Gaya Ethaniel touches it...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Nice :)
    Adelene Dawner: Try bumping into it ^.^
    Wol Euler: you first
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks :)
    Wol Euler: hehehe
    Fael Illyar: I'd prefer more brightness in the mist though ... feels kinds of gloomy with this dark one.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow nice
    Adelene Dawner: Yeah - that part needs some work.
    Fael Illyar: But really nice overall :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Gaya Ethaniel: So a mass of these crystal... walking on them would be fun.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Like a wave...
    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Ade distributes a folder of crystals.

    Wol Euler: ty ade
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks!
    Fael Illyar: Thank you :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Bertrum Quan: Thanks
    Susi Alcott: oh thank you Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: Enjoy ^.^
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is it possible to see the script?
    Fael Illyar: interesting, one is full perm, other things nocopy,nomod.
    Gaya Ethaniel: view*
    Adelene Dawner: oh, heh, forgot to set the perms. I always do that :P
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Fael Illyar: for most of the time, I'd personally prefer the default permissions for things I create to be full perm.
    Adelene Dawner: It'd be nice if they had a way to set that in the client.
    Fael Illyar: yes, I kind of hope so too.
    Adelene Dawner: Well, the one in the middle of the circle is full perm on both scripts and for sale for $0, now, if anyone wants a copy.
    Susi Alcott: ty very much
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks :)
    Adelene Dawner: (There's a script in the tip that sets it to generate light based on the color and size of the crystal)
    Fael Illyar: Thank you :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Gaya Ethaniel: Colours change randomly?
    Adelene Dawner: Yes-but. They're weighted to be bright.
    Fael Illyar would guess script resets
    Adelene Dawner: Nope, I tend not to use resets, actually.
    Adelene Dawner: Makes it harder to repurpose scripts. ^.^
    Fael Illyar: ah, I meant I expected the color changes to be because you were modifying scripts.
    Fael Illyar: and thus causing resets
    Adelene Dawner: Yes and no. ^.^ It's changing color 'cause I'm clicking it, 'cause I'm editing the script. The script actually doesn't do anything on reset.
    Fael Illyar: Ah, ok :)
    Adelene Dawner: It does have a timer, but it's a long one - at least once a day but no more than once an hour, it changes on its own.
    Adelene Dawner hmms, and wonders if a slow constant color drift might be more fun. ^.^
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's amazing :)
    Wol Euler: oh yes, good idea
    Wol Euler: also on a very slow timescale
    Wol Euler: from turquoise to green in two hours say
    Fael Illyar: yes, slow drift would be nicer :)
    Fael Illyar: no sudden changes :)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Adelene Dawner: Yep, maybe + or - .01 of red or green or blue (random) every 5 seconds or so.
    Squee: A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
    Fael Illyar: I'd prefer randomly setting target and then damping to that slowly.
    Wol Euler: or perhaps: every N hours choose a new colour randomly, and move towards it in steps every M minutes
    Adelene Dawner shrugs.
    Adelene Dawner: y'all have the script to play with ^.^
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar: but feel free to implement it however you want :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Adelene Dawner: It even uses Red/Green/Blue variables.
    Fael Illyar: I think all scripts I got are nocopy,nomod.
    Adelene Dawner: The ones in the crystal in the middle of the circle are full-perm.
    Fael Illyar: ah, yes :)
    Wol Euler: ty ade
    Adelene Dawner: no problem.
    Gaya Ethaniel: brb

    What follows is perhaps my first attempt to guide a session into official PaB business! I introduced a series of breathing exercises that Stim mentioned at last night's Kira workshop on Contemplation.

    Wol Euler: if the group were in agreement, I would like to suggest a little meditation exercise
    Gaya Ethaniel: back
    Wol Euler: this is something Stim discussed at Kira last night in his session on contemplation
    Wol Euler: wb gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty :)
    Wol Euler: I'm aware that anyone who might hae wished to go, could have gone, and therefore that those who are now here but weren't there perhaps were not interested.
    Wol Euler: so I won't push it if the group is not in agrement
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'd be interested Wol.
    Adelene Dawner wasn't there, and doesn't know what you're talking about.
    Fael Illyar: just explain the idea already please :P
    Wol Euler: ok.

    Stim Morane: For now, I'm concentrating on the nature and role of View in traditional contemplative practice. The point is to give us all a common ground for some delicate discussions later, regarding how contemplation might be understood in the modern, scientifically-informed context. The implications bear on both theoretical issues and on living --- living in a fully meaningful way.
    Stim Morane: So, let's get to work! As before, I want to invite you to perform a couple little contemplative experiments, each hinging on the issue of the power of View.
    Wol Euler: Stim Morane: We will step through the same set of exercises we used last week, because in fact there is a lot to notice in the performance, the "doing" of such things ... I spent years in mountain retreats doing practices like this, without ever exhausting their significance for life, ethics and spirituality.
    Stim Morane: Try this---spend the next two minutes working with the following token practice: breathe normally, and count each exhalation. So start by counting the first exhalation as "one", and the second one as "two", etc..
    Stim Morane: Frame this practice with the "view" that an unfocused, scattered mind lies at the heart of many of life's problems, and that the practice should be used to help you learn to control the mind so that it eventually suffers no distractions and enjoys strict, uninterrupted awareness.
    Stim Morane: If you lose the breath count, be aware that that has happened and start again at "one". Don't cheat!
    Stim Morane: Count towards a total of twenty-one. I'll be the timekeeper, and will stop you at the two-minute mark.

    Wol Euler: shall we?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah he asked up to 21 :) sure
    Wol Euler: I never got higher than seven last night.
    Wol Euler: after four tries
    Gaya Ethaniel: :) I normall do up to 10
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'd be happy to do if all agrees.
    Adelene Dawner: Sure, why not.
    Wol Euler: ok, I'll set a timer. If you turn the sound up, you'll hear me typing again at the end of the two minutes :)
    Wol Euler: three --- two --- one ---
    Wol Euler: now
    Wol Euler: time
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty
    Fael Illyar: oh, I only got up to 13 during the 2 minutes. No skips.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Same :)
    Wol Euler: I made it to four or five only.
    Adelene Dawner is still trying to figure out why you guys find this hard. 23.
    Wol Euler: do you close your eyes or keep them open?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Half closed
    Wol Euler: heh, good question ade.
    Fael Illyar: I actually did it up to 21 while reading you explaining. Reached 21 when you said "now" to mark the beginning :)
    Fael Illyar: so I tried again :)
    Wol Euler: heh
    Bertrum Quan: 33 for me.
    Wol Euler: damn
    Adelene Dawner: Bert breathes fast. :)
    Wol Euler: I blame the cold and the pills. That's my story and I am sticking to it.
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fael Illyar: funny part is that when you were explaining how high you were getting at before, that was where my count was going at the time :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: When I first started this form of meditation, I repeated often at 5 or so Wol... so...
    Fael Illyar: close to distracted me both times :)
    Bertrum Quan: The number of exhales depends on how relaxed on is. Is that the idea?
    Wol Euler nods. I think it is about achieving non-distractibility.
    Bertrum Quan: one is
    Wol Euler: noticing but not being distracted by
    Adelene Dawner nods.
    Wol Euler: that was the first of three exercises that Stim had us do.
    Wol Euler: his point was that when we concentrate on counting, on the numbers, then the outside world is distracting and interrupting
    Wol Euler: he then had us do it again, but this time ... let me check the transcript

    Stim Morane: This time, count the breath as before, but instead of practicing the sort of mind control that figured in the first approach, meet all distractions with compassionate inclusion. So anything that arises within your nature which seems likely to throw you off or make you lose the count should be met in a welcoming and inclusive way... and an _appreciative_ way!
    Stim Morane: The view here is that there are no real distractions, only things that we haven't yet learned to appreciate as actually contributing toward a larger sense of presence. Practice that way.

    Fael Illyar: oh... I already did that.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Adelene Dawner nods at Fa.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods...
    Wol Euler: well, write a "B" for beginner on my forehead :)
    Adelene Dawner: So... if you're *not* doing that, Wol, what *are* you doing?
    Adelene Dawner is genuinely curious.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can't go back before I began meditation.
    Wol Euler: in my better moments, and in earlier years, I did and could do that, Ade.
    Fael Illyar: It's something I learned while doing the 9-seconds.
    Fael Illyar: How to "interrupt" without being interrupted
    Wol Euler: but I'm seriously out of practice
    Adelene Dawner goes o.O
    Wol Euler: I'm a very poor example for PaB, in truth I do very little. Only when I explicitly make time, or when I really need to settle myself down, ground myself
    Gaya Ethaniel: When distracted, my mind drifts off other than counting if that makes sense Adele.
    Fael Illyar reveals that she barely does 9-seconds lately anymore ... at leas not consciously.
    Bertrum Quan: I have a question.
    Bertrum Quan: Since you have us do this in silence, where was the interruption?
    Fael Illyar had music playing.
    Wol Euler: for me, in the outside world, predominantly in hearing noises from the street
    Wol Euler: which register without interrupting when I am typing right now.
    Susi Alcott: I am myself the interruption
    Susi Alcott: because I was not able to understand those long quoted lines
    Fael Illyar: while I did up to 21 and you were conversing, I read everything you said too.
    Susi Alcott: so couldn't even even start
    Wol Euler: oh, I'm sorry.
    Susi Alcott: no prob
    Susi Alcott: you all 'jumped' into my existence, so I was not outsider at all
    Susi Alcott: but having now a little problems to stay among :)


    Focus, distraction and the search for the Point. 

    Bertrum Quan: Is the point to do this exercise while engaged in another activity? Or just focused inward on the exhales?
    Susi Alcott: but I try to keep not to pass out
    Wol Euler: I think the point is to focus, and to be aware of what "focusing" means. That is how I understood Stim when he spoke of "views"
    Wol Euler: whether it excludes or includes things outside the breath and the numbesr
    Fael Illyar: it certainly is a bit more difficult with more potential distractions :)
    Bertrum Quan: Does one view refer to one's observing oneself exhaling?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods @ Wol. It can be done in various ways with different parameters etc...
    Susi Alcott: is that only observing oneself ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm afraid I must head back to RL. Thanks and enjoy your day everyone.
    Fael Illyar: See you later Gaya :)
    Wol Euler holds up her hands. Bear in mind that I am the beginner here, and only reporting what I undesrtood of what was said :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care. Nice to see you again
    Fael Illyar smiles and hugs Wol.
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Gaya. ^.^
    Gaya Ethaniel pats Squee.
    Bertrum Quan: bye Gaya
    Squee: ^.^
    Squee: A man can do what he wants. But he can't want what he wants.
    Wol Euler: my impression is that the view is related to how you think of those things outside yourself-and-your-breath
    Susi Alcott: what comes to 'common' in PaB, in case there truely is such, I'm still quite completely outsider of that
    Susi Alcott: experienced only 'not common'
    Susi Alcott: but common to me that people use to emerge with my existence
    Wol Euler smiles and leans back against Fael
    Susi Alcott: that's why my question
    Susi Alcott: because this time it happened so strongly by all the people present here
    Susi Alcott: (must go out from the building where many people are meditating)
    Susi Alcott: in my RL
    Fael Illyar: no weak ones here :)
    Susi Alcott: nope
    Wol Euler: I do feel quite weak here, at moments like this. Weak as an interrupted and occasional meditator among "professionals"
    Adelene Dawner: 'cept... you're not, Wol...
    Wol Euler: there were a few times in Stim's talk when I had no idea what he was on about, I had to ask Solo in IM for help
    Adelene Dawner: I don't think any of us here now are professionals.
    Fael Illyar: yes, no pros here :)
    Fael Illyar: (whatever that means)
    Adelene Dawner: I may well meditate less often than you do - definitely less, as far as formal practice goes.
    Susi Alcott: somewhere is ???
    Wol Euler: "proficient" then :)
    Adelene Dawner: I have literally no idea why I'm good at this stuff.
    Wol Euler smiles
    Susi Alcott: well; I dont ever meditate :)
    Bertrum Quan: This seemed less to me a meditation than a preparation to meditate.
    Fael Illyar: oh, it definitely is a form of meditation.
    Bertrum Quan: What did Stim outline as the practice?
    Wol Euler: to be pedantic, he called it a set of three exercises :) All this breathing and counting practice, with different views on "outside"
    Fael Illyar: what I see as a benefit for doing something like this is better ability to stay focused, even when you don't shut out the rest of the world.
    Wol Euler: the talk was logged and will be on the Kira wiki "very soon" :)
    Bertrum Quan: Would you send me the URL to the wiki?
    Wol Euler: it will be on http://www.kira.org/
    Wol Euler: under "current initiatives"
    Wol Euler: but isn't there yet
    Bertrum Quan: Thanks.
    Susi Alcott: thinking....might this way to meditate be stepping more into the 'outside' world

    Stim Morane: the point is, a view can help to get us started
    Stim Morane: as I said last time, without View, practice is blind
    Storm Nordwind: It is possible to get caught up inthe bliss of the experience and to let yourself become separate. On the other hand, it is possible to maintain that all inclusiveness it seems.
    Stim Morane: OK. On to our 3rd practice and View:
    Stim Morane: Count the breath as before, being disciplined and focused but also welcoming toward the messy bits of our mind functions and perceptions that would normally distract us... but attend _in particular_ to the aliveness you can find within each part of the breath. Enter that aliveness and allow it to open up to more of itself. Is there a limit to it?
    Stim Morane: This is not about imagining anything, only seeing more of what is there. The View here is that this dimension of aliveness is open-ended and central to our existence, our being. It even exists "inside" our distractions! Practice that way.

    Fael Illyar: yes, more open meditation so to speak I'd say.
    Wol Euler: so the target seems to be to welcome the things that might have distracted, to see them as not-outside
    Susi Alcott: or even the 'opener' to certain door
    Susi Alcott: thinking that now because all seems to enter me more strongly
    Susi Alcott: so that I cannot anymore make any 'analuze' that who
    Susi Alcott: even all stopped the meditation
    Fael Illyar: I haven't really stopped it. It's somehow still going. I'm just not counting.
    Susi Alcott: and for my given info now; somebody is withdrawing
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Susi Alcott: so I decide to do this
    Susi Alcott: feel free to emerge; that's how my existence 'works out'
    Susi Alcott: but I must log out before I pass out
    Susi Alcott: was wonderfull to meet you
    Wol Euler: well, we don't want that!
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: bye susi, take care.
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Susi.
    Fael Illyar: See you later Susi :)
    Wol Euler: shabbat shalom :)
    Bertrum Quan: bye Susi
    Wol Euler: apropos leaving, I must get to work soon.
    Wol Euler: you may of course continue, the autologger will continue to run :)
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Wol. ^.^
    Wol Euler: or we could be done now.
    Fael Illyar: See you later Wol :)
    Fael Illyar: I think I'll log out as well :)
    Fael Illyar waves.
    Bertrum Quan: Thanks, Wol. Bye everyone.
    Wol Euler: bye fael, bye bertrum, bye ade.
    Wol Euler: take care, enjoy the day.
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