2009.06.01 19:00 - A dance between circumstances and choices

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database. Threedee was the guardian.

    syros Soulstar: hi threedee:)

    Threedee Shepherd: Hi syros

    Threedee Shepherd: Are you familiar with PaB (this group, although so far I am a group of 1)?

    syros Soulstar: yes i am. its buddha nirvana under a new avi:)

    syros Soulstar: thnx three:)

    syros Soulstar: hi ade:)

    Adelene Dawner: hiya :)

    Threedee Shepherd: I guessed as much, though i did not know who it was the alt av of

    syros Soulstar: hehe:)

    Threedee Shepherd: OK, here is a good question, why was I able to make such a guess?

    Travieso Sella: greetings

    Adelene Dawner: Syros looks like Buddha, and that body type is rare here. I assume you just forgot the name.

    Threedee Shepherd: Hello Travieso, have you been to our group meetings before?

    Travieso Sella: yes, I have

    Threedee Shepherd: Welcome back

    Travieso Sella: thanks

    Threedee Shepherd: No, I have never seen syros before so why did I think he was an alt av of a regular participant

    Travieso Sella: Is there a topic in place already?

    Threedee Shepherd: not yet, just opening chit-chat

    Threedee Shepherd: Is there a topic you would like to discuss

    syros Soulstar: maybe resonance can be picked up through sl

    Travieso Sella: There's one I have

    syros Soulstar: what resonance is, im not so sure

    Adelene Dawner: You saw him before you thought that, I assume, otherwise you wouldn't've had a person to think it about. And the av does look like Buddha.

    Travieso Sella: But I'm pretty open. My topic is the practise of mindfullness

    syros Soulstar: in the form of 'meditation'?

    Threedee Shepherd: My guess is that it is rare for an apparent newbie av with no groups to immediately sit down here when only one other person is present and immediately greet them

    Adelene Dawner: Also quite possible :)

    Threedee Shepherd: mindfulness covers numerous practices, do you have something specific "in mind"

    Travieso Sella: It is depending on how you want to look at it, Syros

    Travieso Sella: Well, are you familiar with the four establishments of mindfullness?

    Threedee Shepherd: If I know them, it is not as formal as that, so perhaps you can briefly say them

    Travieso Sella: It's interesting that that they are defined as mindfullness within the objects. That is they are basically mindfullness of the body within the body, mindfullness of the mind within the mind, mindfullness of the feelings within the feelings, and mindfullness of the objects of mind withing the objects of mind.

    Travieso Sella: or: body, mind, feelings and phenomenon

    Travieso Sella: I find this appraoch rather useful mself

    Travieso Sella: not to only discuss that which I know

    Threedee Shepherd: so, which aspect would folks like to discuss now?

    Travieso Sella: take care folks

    Adelene Dawner: cya

    Threedee Shepherd: bye

    Strannik Zipper: OK I could throw a question out there

    Adelene Dawner: sure

    Threedee Shepherd: Ok, here is a meta-question. Does the GoC have a special responsibility to start and or maintain a topic?

    Adelene Dawner: I think that's been answered: No.

    Strannik Zipper: Threedee - probably not specifically, but should keep discussion moving perhaps

    Strannik Zipper: or on general topics related to "Play As Being"

    Strannik Zipper: just my thought

    Strannik Zipper: I was going to ask - given that we have a constantly increasing number of things that demand our attention

    Strannik Zipper: and time

    Strannik Zipper: but we do not have an increase in attention or time (finite)

    Strannik Zipper: how do we manage attention and time so that we are truly investing it in value and not just allowing it to slip away

    Strannik Zipper: this is related to the idea of "life hacking"

    Strannik Zipper: There are websites that answer that question, but I wanted to see how a "play as being" perspective might arise?

    Threedee Shepherd: Strannik this seems closely related to the questions of What is the purpose of Life?

    Strannik Zipper: Threeddd - a good point - I suppose that I have already assumed that the purpose of life isn't just to kill time :)

    Threedee Shepherd: I think more than that is needed because if behavior is non-random, it is purposeful, in which case the purpose has much to do with what one chooses to do.

    Strannik Zipper: right - we choose our behavior according to some aim, but is there anything that determines the aim?

    Threedee Shepherd: survival seems pretty heavily "wired in"

    Strannik Zipper: I would say that first of all, there is some sense of ideal that most of us have

    Strannik Zipper: we see someone who has lived an extraordinary life, and this somehow inspires us that this is a good life

    Strannik Zipper: Or we sense that somehow life is precious, and as such, inspires us to look for non-wasteful activities

    Strannik Zipper: of course some of us *do* just waste time, but there is some sense of conscience that often tells us that this is a bad idea

    Threedee Shepherd: Let me work backwards with a hypothetical. Assume you are 95, of reasonably sound mind but a bit frail. Your basic needs are met and you sit in you home reading novels, that you never will discuss with anyone. What is the point of doing so?

    Threedee Shepherd: Silence???

    Adelene Dawner: Personal enjoyment?

    Strannik Zipper: Well, In some context, that might be appropriate - and I think that is the other factor - what is happening in a persons's sphere of influence

    Threedee Shepherd: Does that personal enjoyment "add" anything to the "world"

    Strannik Zipper: the answer during a time of peace would hopefully be different than at a time when your neighbors are being ethnically cleansed lets say

    Strannik Zipper: I sense that there is a rythm of life, and that personal enjoyment is part of that

    Threedee Shepherd: If you are marooned on an island with adequate resources, but know you or your skeleton will never be found, what is the point of living?

    Strannik Zipper: at this point, I would decide that the purpose of my life was the perfection of surfing skills

    Threedee Shepherd: hehehe

    Adelene Dawner: Or "why not?" works.

    Strannik Zipper: which brings back the other point - the context of life will determine the aim of one's life

    Strannik Zipper: but not completely

    Strannik Zipper: there is a dance between circumstances and choices

    Threedee Shepherd: If why not works, then as long as one is not depriving others of necessary resources, it would seem that there is no purpose other than one you invent?

    Adelene Dawner: Sounds about right to me. :)

    Strannik Zipper: I very much like a quote from "Lord of the Rings" in which after Frodo says "I wish none of this had happened" (lamenting the situation he was in)

    Strannik Zipper: Gandalf answers:

    Strannik Zipper: 'So do I,' said Gandalf, and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^

    Threedee Shepherd: OK Strannik, let me come at this totally pragmatically. I am recently retired at age almost 67. I spend lots of time chatting with friends in SL. When I wasa professor doing teaching and research, the research depended on competing for grant funding that was very hard to get. To meet my goal then of being a researcher who succeeded in being funded, even working all my waking hours was not a guarantee. But I surely did not "splurge away" hours a day in pleasant conversation. So, I guess it all does depend on the "story" I sold myself.

    Strannik Zipper: So why did you do all that?

    Threedee Shepherd: I enjoyed "doing" science. AND it was the way I earned my living and supported my family.

    Strannik Zipper: was there anything that you might have enjoyed that you said "no" to? 

    Threedee Shepherd: yes--choices

    Threedee Shepherd: I need to go sharply on the hour, so I will make a little summary from my point of view. One had goals, needs and desires at a given moment, wherever they came from.

    Strannik Zipper: somethings you gave your attention and time to, and others you didn't

    Threedee Shepherd: So, a way to approach choosing is some kind of maximization calculus that asks, is there an amount of time that can be allocated to each possibility that maximizes the overall benefits of all things combined? Me, I mostly got up and did what seemed to need to be done next ^.^ With a strong moral basis, but that is for another time.

    Threedee Shepherd: Thanks folks. I need to go. Goodnight

    Strannik Zipper: maximization calculus - interesting - thanks

    Strannik Zipper: Oh must the fish be beaten?

    Adelene Dawner: *giggle*

    Strannik Zipper: well thanks for the explorations folks

    Adelene Dawner: G'night, Syros

    syros Soulstar: nite ade:)

    syros Soulstar: sleep well

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