2009.06.18 13:00 - Freiburg by installments!

The guardian for this session was Storm Nordwind. The comments are Storm's.

Today Pema arrived and Wol started to tell of their recent visit to the Freiburg home of Husserl's Archive in Germany. It looked like we were in for a treat on Phenomenology. But things didn't go quote to plan!

Storm Nordwind: Hello again sundhi :)
sundhi Joubert: hello again
sundhi Joubert: i havent been here since november,,,
Storm Nordwind: Yes - I was just checking in the archives! :)
Storm Nordwind: I have a terrible memory for names - sadly
sundhi Joubert: doesent seem that long,,,
Storm Nordwind: Have you been busy?
sundhi Joubert: i have been distracted,,,not quite the same thing
Storm Nordwind: Then what has made us so fortunate as to have you visit again?
Storm Nordwind: Hi again Wol!
sundhi Joubert: was thru rather a lot of trauma last year....rebuilding my life,,so today i found myself here
Wol Euler: hi again, please continue.
sundhi Joubert: hello wol
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Storm Nordwind: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm, Wol, sundhi :)
sundhi Joubert: hi eliza
Wol Euler: hello pema!
sundhi Joubert: hello pema
Storm Nordwind: Well you are always welcome sundhi! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Pema!
Pema Pera: Hi Sundhi, Storm, Wol, Eliza!
Pema Pera: Great to see you here again, Sundhi!
sundhi Joubert: ty....been a whileile
Pema Pera: for me too, actually
Pema Pera: haven't had much time to drop by during my crazy Europe in three weeks trip :-)
Pema Pera: but now back in New York
Storm Nordwind: Oh by the way Pema, I saw Becka again 2 days ago in Happy Hour. She asked me to pass on her regards
Wol Euler: :)
Pema Pera: great, thanks Storm!
Pema Pera: Please say hi to her from me, next chance
Storm Nordwind: She said she'd drop by here too
Pema Pera: even greater!
Wol Euler: agreed
Storm Nordwind: I think there's a pause in her OU work
Pema Pera: good timing then

And so we moved from past to future.

Pema Pera: just now, Fefonz and Adams and I had lunch in Princeton
Pema Pera: was good to see both again, in RL!
Storm Nordwind: Great! :)
Wol Euler is envious :)
Eliza Madrigal: Really nice
Pema Pera: and very much looking forward to your visit to Princeton, Storm, in the fall !
Storm Nordwind: me too!
Storm Nordwind grins from ear to ear :))
Pema Pera: Any chance you might make it to the August retreat, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Not at all Pema, would love to though. Maybe next time :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Would love to be travelling around the world as you've been doing too!
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Pema Pera: I'm very lucky, I know . . . .
Pema Pera: off to Japan on Sunday :-)
Storm Nordwind remembers his travelling days - just a couple of years ago
Wol Euler grins
Eliza Madrigal: Storm, are you in the US now?
Storm Nordwind: Let me see...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: 53 days!
Wol Euler cheers
Pema Pera: hehehe
Storm Nordwind: There's a counter in the corner of my PC :)

And so began "Freiburg by installments"!

Pema Pera: one of the highlights of my Europe trip was meeting Wol in person
Wol Euler: likewise!
Pema Pera: in Freiburg
Pema Pera: attending a phenomenology class in the Husserl Archive area there!
Storm Nordwind: Ah yes - I was hoping to fly over and surprise you both, but other events took a hand
Wol Euler: oh wow. that owuld have been marvellous.
Pema Pera: Artemisia was there as well
Pema Pera: yes, would have been!
Storm Nordwind: Sounds wonderful
Eliza Madrigal nods
Wol Euler: cover your ears Pema :)
Pema Pera: We saw Husserl's last study room
Pema Pera: my ears??
Storm Nordwind: O-o!!

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Wol Euler: because I'm going to talk about you :)
Wol Euler: afte the bell
Pema Pera: :-)

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Wol Euler: Freiburg is the home of the Husserl archive, they are making an edition of all of his works. Many thousands of pages of shorthand
Wol Euler: we met the archivist and his assistants
Wol Euler: they were expecting the usual visiting celebrity :) somebody who once flippd through a Readrs' Digest article on Husserl
Wol Euler: and were very surprised, and then very impressed by Pema's knowledge of the man and the movement
Wol Euler: one of the assistants invited us to sit in on a seminar he was to teach that afternoon
Wol Euler: and after the classwork was done, he asked Pema to speak to his students
Wol Euler: who were also expecting a visiting celebrity type :)
Wol Euler: damn, phone, talk among oyruselves
Pema Pera: hehehe
Storm Nordwind smiles
Pema Pera: Wol must be the real celebrity, getting all those phone calls . . .
Storm Nordwind chuckles

The storyteller changed. Or was it a stitch-up? :)

Pema Pera: btw, I'm in the small train from Princeton to Princeton Junction, taking off from Princeton now
Eliza Madrigal: fantastic though, Pema. You must have had a marvelous conversation with them.
Storm Nordwind: Paint us a picture Pema :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: in five minutes I have to get off line, and then I'll have to get in and out a few times -- to the waiting room and then to the train to New York
Pema Pera: so expect me to drop out a few times
Pema Pera: oh yeah, it was fun
Storm Nordwind: With this new viewer. it will just seem like normal :-/
Pema Pera: actually, one detail: I asked the assistent whether we could sit in
Pema Pera: (Wol probably didn't hear that, it was an aside)
Pema Pera: he was surprised, but then allowed us
sundhi Joubert: please excuse me,,,i must go
Storm Nordwind: Bye for now sundhi
Storm Nordwind: How many others were there?
Pema Pera: about thirty, forty students or so
Pema Pera: a grad student seminar
Storm Nordwind: wow that's quite a lot really
Pema Pera: their homework was reading a piece in the middle of Husserl's notes on time consciousness
Pema Pera: two students had prepared a fifteen minute presentation about their understanding of it
Pema Pera: The assistent asked me to talk first
Pema Pera: but I insisted on first hearing the students
Storm Nordwind: Were they coming at it from a purely intellectual viewpoint?
Pema Pera: it was a two-hour seminar
Pema Pera: not really; they did have some sense, did connect it to some extent with their experience, but of course less than we do here
Pema Pera: in the middle of the second hour I started to talk
Pema Pera: and now I have to get out of the local train -- hope to get back online in a couple minutes
Storm Nordwind: hehe OK!
Eliza Madrigal: Good to see you Pema :)
Storm Nordwind: We will wait for the next installment!

Pema got out of one train in real life and we did indeed talk amongst ourselves for a few minutes.

Eliza Madrigal: As Wol said, it must be refreshing when someone comes with sincere interest and knowledge
Storm Nordwind: And more than that - someone who has followed things up a long way
Eliza Madrigal: yes definitely
Eliza Madrigal: really what I thought, that when your interest is heart-felt there is a certain element maybe not present otherwise?
Storm Nordwind: Yes i agree
Storm Nordwind: People like that have an aura about them
Eliza Madrigal: Yes!
Storm Nordwind: There's also the difference you can feel when someone practises what they preach, instead of just intellectualising

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Eliza Madrigal: absolutely
Pema Pera: hi again!
Storm Nordwind waves
Pema Pera: (in the waiting room at Princeton Junction now, but not for long)
Eliza Madrigal: Wb Pema :)

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Pema Pera: oops, sorry :-)
Storm Nordwind: hehe
Pema Pera: should have watched the mist :)
Storm Nordwind: So in the middle of the second hour... ?
Pema Pera: ah, Wol is still on call?
Pema Pera: a guardian on call?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, guardian on a long call
Pema Pera: hehehe
Storm Nordwind chuckles

Pema started to speak again but his next train arrived!

Pema Pera: Well, I was glad that I had an hour to get a sense of the atmosphere and level of the discussion
Pema Pera: which was quite impressive, both in fact
sophia Placebo: greeetings
Storm Nordwind: Welcome sophia
Pema Pera: Hi Sophia!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi sophia :)
Pema Pera: so I began my talk with the question of what science is
Pema Pera: to what extent it is rational
Pema Pera: well, hard to summarize in a few words
Pema Pera: oops, train coming, bye again . . .
Eliza Madrigal: He's blinkering
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Storm Nordwind: He's teasing us!
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
sophia Placebo: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: Wol too
Eliza Madrigal: they are in on it together
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: still phone but here
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: A still phone is the best phone
Wol Euler: ...
Eliza Madrigal: agrees..oh my do I agree
Eliza Madrigal: and Sophia came to nap :)
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Storm Nordwind: This is quite a party! ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Storm, I hope to be in Colorado for a while in July... such a gorgeous place
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fef!
sophia Placebo: hi fef
Fefonz Quan: Hello all!
Storm Nordwind: Oh really Eliza. Whereabouts?
Eliza Madrigal: Golden
Storm Nordwind: Ah nice
Storm Nordwind: If it were a month later I would offer to say "hi!"

Pema reappeared, ensconced on a new train. Would be finish the tale this time?

Storm Nordwind: We kept the cushion warm for you pema
Pema Pera: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: well, back once again! Hi Fef!
Fefonz Quan: Hi Pema!
Pema Pera: Did Wol finally pick up the thread?
Wol Euler: no, sorry, still phone :(
Pema Pera: hehehe
Eliza Madrigal: We think you two are conspiring
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Storm Nordwind: So relieve our bated breath please Pema!
Pema Pera: that was Wol's shadow speaking?
Pema Pera: this is going to be a confusing log . . . .
Wol Euler: :)
Storm Nordwind: The Freiburg soap opera
Pema Pera: well, I told them that scientific research was not at all rational
Pema Pera: only the last step of checking; most of the groping in the dark was something else
Pema Pera: I used the example of a marathon, where the winner is determined by a stop watch
Pema Pera: but marathons are not about time keeping
Pema Pera: similarly science is not about rationality
Pema Pera: and then I went to a more direct discussion of phenomenology
Pema Pera: the way I would do in a Kira workshop
Pema Pera: it was fun, and the students obviously liked it
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Pema Pera: so I'll see more of him in the fall; he will visit me in Princeton
Pema Pera: the teacher too; he's a young Italian who is moving to Boston College in a few months
Storm Nordwind: Did you do any experiments with them at all?
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: but really, why I am saying all this -- I was supposed to keep ears and mouth covered, according to Wol ! ! !
Wol Euler: sorry i have only 1 hand, phone still
Eliza Madrigal: Glad you're sharing with us Pema...glad Wol tricked you
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Storm Nordwind: Do continue anyway pema! :)
Pema Pera: sure did!

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Pema Pera: Wol is a great trickster!
Wol Euler: :)
Pema Pera: well, okay, my first "experiment" was to let them watch the wall at the side of the lecture room
Pema Pera: and to let them feel that they can experience the distance to the wall
Pema Pera: but that there was no distance to the experience
Pema Pera: so there is experience of distance but no distance of experience
Pema Pera: and I urged them to really feel that for themselves, and to practice that at home, or whatever, really spending a few hours, as Husserl did and as he urged his students
Pema Pera: In that context I talked about the different ways to see the same wall: as material object and as conscious experience
Storm Nordwind: That's interesting. I wonder what one-eyed people would experience with that
Pema Pera: and again, I encouraged them to switch between the two, practicing the epoche that way
Pema Pera: oh, one-eyed people still see depth, through various ways, like motion
Pema Pera: Hi Nymf and Pila!
Storm Nordwind: Hi Nymf!
Nymf Hathaway: Hello everyone :)
Fefonz Quan: Hi Nymf, Pila
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Nymf, Pila :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Pila
sophia Placebo: hi nymf ,hi pila :)
Pila Mulligan: greetings
Pema Pera: and from there on I went to time experiments, the notion that there is no past and future
Pema Pera: that did fit in perfectly with what they had been talking about the hour before
Pema Pera: I gave them a graphic example
Pema Pera: of someone walking into the room with a gun
Pema Pera: and of such a person being able to take away their future but not their past
Pema Pera: while Husserl is taking away both their future and past, and as such is much more radical than a gun man
Pema Pera: and that you really have to experience that radicality to appreciate Husserl
Pema Pera: it was great to see them largely "getting" that, as far as I could judge
Fefonz Quan: does husserl at least leaves some potenitial to the future?
Pema Pera: it was a bit of a challenge to say all that in German, but I think I got the main message across
Pema Pera: well, all our experiences are present experiences with as a content meanings that can refer to past and future
Pema Pera: we're talking about phenomenology, on what is given as phenomena, not about what may or may not exist
Pema Pera: anyway, sorry Nymf and Pila, we were in the middle of a long answer to a short question
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Pila Mulligan: quite interesting :)
Nymf Hathaway: is reading with pleasure :)
Pema Pera: Wol posed the question and promised a long answer herself, but then claimed that a phone call to her had to make me speak
Pila Mulligan: a set up
Wol Euler: :)
Nymf Hathaway: :)))
Eliza Madrigal: past and future as 'in' the present, or literally none I wonder. Well, anyway will do the wall experiment :)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: actually, the present doesn't exists either -- but I had not time to say much about that, only a hint
Fefonz Quan: the experiments with time are the one where you drop the future and then drop the past?
Storm Nordwind: "I had not time"? Nice! :)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: well, there are many ways, Fef . . . .
Fefonz Quan: sure, you just talked about the specific ones you did in the class
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: I guess what came across most clearly was at the start, with the wall, that I pointed out that conscious experience is not "in your head" but all around you
Pema Pera: If some asks you where is your experience, the honest answer is to point all around you
Pema Pera: not to your brain :)

It was time for most people to go.

Storm Nordwind quietly reminds people of Stim's workshop in just 2 minutes
Fefonz Quan: thanks, Storm
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Storm
Pema Pera: we talked a bit about that, and they seemed to agree -- it would take more time of coruse to go deeper into that
Pila Mulligan: ah, thank's Storm (I'll be sliupping away:)
Pema Pera: Well, good seein y'all again
Eliza Madrigal: Good to see you Pema! Travel well!
Pema Pera: I'll think about a way to get back at Wol, meanwhile :-)
Wol Euler: sorry to be absent :(
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Storm Nordwind: Thank you so much for the tale Pema!
Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye everyone who is leaving :)
Wol Euler: bye!
Fefonz Quan: good seeing you Pema

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Fefonz Quan: Bye all, going to Stim too :)
sophia Placebo: bye fef and all leaving good poeple
Pema Pera: I'll take off soon too
sophia Placebo: bye pema
Wol Euler: bye pema, sorry

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Storm Nordwind: I must go and see if my fiancee is recovering well from swine flu
Storm Nordwind: Please excuse me
Nymf Hathaway: ooops Storm
Nymf Hathaway: Wish her the best
sophia Placebo: bye storm , hopes she is well
Storm Nordwind: Thank you
Storm Nordwind: Bye for now

[24 hours later, she tested negative for the flu and indeed is recovering... from something else.]

And after I had gone...

Nymf Hathaway: bye bye
sophia Placebo: g2g , good night :)
Wol Euler: back
Wol Euler: damn, I missed the whole session. But it was a call about this summer, I couldn't hang up.
Wol Euler: timezones are a bitch.
Nymf Hathaway: sorry Wol, back
Wol Euler: no worries
Wol Euler: I was reading hte log.
Wol Euler: it was quite fascinating to see that happening (the seminar)
Wol Euler: he spoke at a grad-student level, without prepartion or notes -- IN GERMAN
Wol Euler shakes her head.
Nymf Hathaway: I missed it as well :(
Wol Euler: oh, when did you arrive?
Nymf Hathaway: need to read the log, came in too late
Wol Euler nods.
Nymf Hathaway: I think with 15 minutes left
Wol Euler: Or I could give you a notecrd if you are in a hurry :)
Nymf Hathaway: smiles thank you :)
Wol Euler: I'm going to head back to my beach, do some maintenance before I log out.
Wol Euler: goodnight, nymf, take care.
Nymf Hathaway: oke :) thank you for the logs wishing you a nice rest of the evening :)