2009.06.30 07:00 - Whole Truth, Objective View

The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.  Many of the corrections are mine too.  Hard to believe I still have this keyboard with the bad "D" and space keys.

For only a few minutes, I got to talk to the 3 animated objects.  They work around each other all the time, but do not really interact.

Riddle Sideways: good morning, Master Listener
Riddle Sideways: I notice that you went 'On Air' and gave me the url, thank you
Riddle Sideways: You needed to tell fountain that I was here and it should foam over at the bell
Riddle Sideways: We see that there are 3 separate objects with 3 separate scripts that only appear to be known to each other
Riddle Sideways: Please to understand that as an outsider from you, it is easy for me to comment on you

Riddle Sideways: Hey Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi Riddle
Riddle Sideways: did you hear me chatting to fountain?
Storm Nordwind: Hehe yes
Riddle Sideways: I knew fountain was your baby
Riddle Sideways: and did not mean to critize it
Storm Nordwind: It is very tolerant
Riddle Sideways: it was where my mind was going
Storm Nordwind: I am testing something at the same time, so my attention is partly elsewhere! :)
Riddle Sideways: ah... I too am designing/architecting something right now
Riddle Sideways: trouble sleeping last night and I had trouble mediatating
Storm Nordwind: Sorry to hear that
Riddle Sideways: need to get these mundane RL work confusions away
Storm Nordwind nods
Riddle Sideways: writing them down is usually the solution
Storm Nordwind: That can certainly work
Riddle Sideways: lying in bed for hours saying that I will write them down seems not so good

Riddle Sideways: the way you are moving your seat... Is that an 8 queens solution?
Storm Nordwind: haha! perhaps!
Riddle Sideways: I have a medium large software network project going wrong in RL now
Riddle Sideways: relating to master listener, the Bell and the fountain is helping
Storm Nordwind: Software doesn't cook itself though! ;)
Riddle Sideways: but seeing my situation is hard, fixing it is harder. Seeing somebody elses problems is easy
Riddle Sideways: then slapping myself on my forehead and saying "it's just like that..."
Riddle Sideways: works for me
Storm Nordwind: Where is the truly objective view? Is there one?
Riddle Sideways: I think not
Riddle Sideways: is that part of Object Oriented
Riddle Sideways: no

Riddle Sideways: oh well, I really did want to talk with you about a different subject
Storm Nordwind: We can, most certainly!
Riddle Sideways: how PaB conflicts and augments your personal religious practices
Riddle Sideways: in discussions with my RL religious friends it is too hard to tell them about these PaB meetings and practices
Riddle Sideways: too long a description to get to a point
Storm Nordwind: Of what religion(s) are these friends?
Riddle Sideways: Mostly jewish
Riddle Sideways: some christians
Storm Nordwind: I suspect it would be an alien concept to most
Storm Nordwind: Of course we know at least one Christian who has taken to PaB like a duck to water
Riddle Sideways: yes,
Storm Nordwind: But I wonder if they are the exception
Riddle Sideways: and I think I know many who would too

Riddle Sideways: I have been in many common-ness of all religions discussions lately
Storm Nordwind: Ah... do you find a common-ness?
Riddle Sideways: and am about to say something like "Adelene said that ..."
Riddle Sideways: and they would want to know who Storm is ...
Riddle Sideways: why a Pema would be relavant to this subject
Riddle Sideways: oh yes, I find common ness, points, planes everywhere
Storm Nordwind: I find very many differences. There are common human needs, perhaps, but the means are sometimes worlds apart - or so it would seem to me

Storm Nordwind is thankful for the steam-cleaning of his trousers
Riddle Sideways: thus the reason why there are so many paths, avenues, guide posts
Riddle Sideways remembers that my hakama needed steaming
Storm Nordwind: I once knew someone - a very religious person in fact - who said, "If all religious paths lead to the same goal, I for one am turning round right now!"
Riddle Sideways: hehe
Storm Nordwind: I have some sympathy with their view
Riddle Sideways: here words are failing me, but I see that and yet can be other
Riddle Sideways: in a general sence all those paths are heading to the same point that I want to go
Storm Nordwind: And what is that point?
Riddle Sideways: and I think I hear many others that want to go there too
Storm Nordwind: What will you/they find there?

Riddle Sideways: yet that is my personal point

Riddle Sideways: today's define of that personal point

Riddle Sideways: my own Personal Los Vegas (PLV) is simular, but different from yours
Riddle Sideways: but who is to say
Riddle Sideways: hmmmmmm, will I/they/you find what is today's thought to be there?
Riddle Sideways: a goal or target is set to go toward
Riddle Sideways: but not knowing what is really there
Storm Nordwind: I know I do not want what I hear many religious people say is their goal - certainly those of Abrahamic persuasion, who make up the majority of the world
Riddle Sideways: true for me too.
Riddle Sideways: even they argue over what is at the goal
Riddle Sideways: we are to join their camp to go to their goal
Storm Nordwind: Oh sure. I'm quite certain their god would not want it any other way! It would seem to me that argument is sustenance for him. :)
Riddle Sideways: yet the prophets, though they report/record their travels differeantly, have told us of some passages that are desirable
Storm Nordwind: Not universally desirable
Riddle Sideways: no not universal, that is why many do not choice the whips and chains doctrines
Riddle Sideways: it would be so easy if we all agreed upon your path, goal and methods
Riddle Sideways: but then you would not like the crowd that followed you
Storm Nordwind: haha!
Storm Nordwind: personally I am not after people agreeing with my paths etc
Storm Nordwind: I am happy for people to choose ways for themselves
Storm Nordwind: It would be nice to consistently encounter a reciprocal attitude, but that is way too much to expect!
Riddle Sideways: yes, a balance of arch-enemies pushing you and loving friendly pulling you
Storm Nordwind: People choose themselves as enemies. I do not bother choosing them for myself.

Riddle Sideways: so say that we meet a rightious, good and seemingly (to us) a person that did it right
Riddle Sideways: we would study how that person did what they did
Riddle Sideways: how they got there
Riddle Sideways: then use the lessons for ourselves
Riddle Sideways: Hi Yakuzza

Storm Nordwind: We could never know enough about them. We would only see a snapshot, a small window onto their life, as viewing the outside world from the other side of a room
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey both of you
Storm Nordwind: Hi Yak
Riddle Sideways: ah, yes my point
Storm Nordwind: It is the same with "Truth". I doubt it is ever possible to know the "whole truth"
Riddle Sideways: we would see "Storm" and soon would be out in the rainy weather
Riddle Sideways: if we can't know the whole truth
Riddle Sideways: why continue after half truths?
Storm Nordwind: People do, usually because they seek outside themselves
Storm Nordwind: It is a human trait either to make do with a half-satisfied goal, or to convince oneself that one has what one really wanted after all, or to keep looking from place to place to find the elusive truth.

Riddle Sideways: ah, so much in that
Riddle Sideways: glad we shun usual human traits
Storm Nordwind smiles
Riddle Sideways: and my personal line between outside and inside of a me has blurred completely
Riddle Sideways: me, you, others, inside and outside seem but a projection
Storm Nordwind: perhaps some of us are! :)

Riddle Sideways: and I appreciate your presence
Riddle Sideways: your appearance
Storm Nordwind: Therein lie the changes that PaB has brought to my practice

Storm Nordwind: I have had demonstrated to me what it is like to walk my path
Storm Nordwind: So it is an encouragement and an affirmation
Riddle Sideways: a coming to the battery charging station
Storm Nordwind: More than that. It has shown me what is it like to drive the car properly!

Yakuzza Lethecus: for me it´s even thinking about those topics more at all, i never thought that much about meditation and ways to find to myself
Yakuzza Lethecus: i bought a meditation cd ones before pab :P
Yakuzza Lethecus: obviously it´s not about mediation here usually
Yakuzza Lethecus: but at least people speak open about those topics
Riddle Sideways: yes, the personal practices each of us do go on hourly within/without us.
Riddle Sideways: we come here to maybe chat about it
Riddle Sideways: common troubles and common joys
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, often i just don´t know what to type here, so i read
Riddle Sideways: but as of now I am needing to go show some software engineers the errors of their ways
Riddle Sideways: please stay and discuss more
Yakuzza Lethecus: and when i join the 1pm session i even sometimes fall asleep literaly P
Riddle Sideways: Yak, Storm is a great source
Storm Nordwind: I spent the last five years teaching software engineers
Storm Nordwind will have to leave now unfortunately
Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, it´s ok i guess both of you are around for an hours
Storm Nordwind: I have some furniture to extricate that is being taken away tomorrow
Yakuzza Lethecus: you take everything with you to the states ?
Storm Nordwind: Quite the opposite Yak
Storm Nordwind: I am giving away most things
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, cya guys around :)
Storm Nordwind: OK Yak!

thank you and may your peace find you.