2009.06.15 13:00 - PaB and Metacommunication

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim
    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach, Pila, Mick
    Pila Mulligan: hi Stim, Scath, Mick and Wester
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello pila, mick, Wester
    Stim Morane: Hi Wester
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Stim, Pila Scath, wester
    Wester Kiranov: hi stim, scáth, pila, mickey
    sophia Placebo: greetings all
    Wester Kiranov: greetings sophia
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Sophia, Wol
    sophia Placebo: hi wol
    Stim Morane: Hi Sophia, Wol
    Wol Euler: good evening everyone!
    Pila Mulligan: :) hi-bye sophia
    Wester Kiranov: hi wol!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello sophia
    Scathach Rhiadra: Wol!
    sophia Placebo: bye pila
    Mickorod Renard: lol Wol,,whats an Autogynephilliac..or souldnt I ask?
    Wol Euler: heheheheheh
    Pila Mulligan: now I do :)
    Pila Mulligan: aha, I did not see you :)
    Wol Euler: in love with my own av :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Wol
    Mickorod Renard: and why not ;)
    Wol Euler grins
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    sophia Placebo: hi yak
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Yak
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Yakuzza
    Wester Kiranov: hi yaku
    Stim Morane: hi Yakuzza
    Pila Mulligan: hi Yakuzza
    Wol Euler: guten abend, yakuzza
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Tarmel
    Wol Euler: hello tarmel
    Wester Kiranov: hi tarmel
    sophia Placebo: hi tarmel
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel
    Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi everyone
    Stim Morane: Hi Tarmel
    Mickorod Renard: this is why i sit here..i can see everyone arriving
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey tamel
    Wol Euler: radar and the minimap can do that too, Mick :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or you might install a radar
    Mickorod Renard: thats all too complicated for me
    Mickorod Renard: I used to have a HUD but folks used to complain about it,,
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Fef
    Wol Euler: hello fefonz
    sophia Placebo: hi fef
    Pila Mulligan: hi fonzy
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz
    Stim Morane: hi Fefonz
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fefonz
    Wester Kiranov: hi fef
    Fefonz Quan: Hello to the honorable circle :)
    Fefonz Quan: you know that feeling when you step into a room and then everybody get silent ? :)
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Wol Euler: we weren't talking about you.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Wol Euler: honestly.
    Wester Kiranov: we're just confused at being called honorable
    sophia Placebo: :))
    Fefonz Quan: ah, thought you had something imore interesting to discuss
    Mickorod Renard: honour is an interesting subject
    Wol Euler grins. Lead us off, Mick.
    Mickorod Renard: lol
    Wol Euler bites her tongue. Sorry, Stim, this is your session.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Maybe we need a few Klingons to discuss with us :)
    Stim Morane: not at all. I'm just the bouncer.
    Fefonz Quan: like Hillary Klingon?
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,as a kid the games I played with friends were all about honour
    Stim Morane: :)
    Mickorod Renard: these dys it seems diferent
    Mickorod Renard: days
    Wol Euler: how was that defined then, Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,we played s knights
    Mickorod Renard: three musketeers
    Fefonz Quan: wasn't that about swords?
    Mickorod Renard: all for one and one for all
    Fefonz Quan: ah, (s)words :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: So, it´s about virtue´s.
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Mickorod Renard: well,,as cowboys we would never drawer first
    Mickorod Renard: and we as knights would fight demons and dragons to save fair maidens
    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
    Mickorod Renard: now its about who can sell most drugs and murder the next gang leader
    Fefonz Quan: maybe you've changed neighbourhodd...
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Wol Euler: to be fair that was happening in our childhood too. The Kray Brothers in England, the Mafia in America ...
    Mickorod Renard: true,,but as kids there was some inocence
    Wol Euler: but it wasn't really something that people openly aspired to, that is different. So yes :)
    Fefonz Quan: i would guess normative children today don't deal with drugs nad murders.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Ah, but i know many who are playing exactly that in onlinegames.
    Fefonz Quan: (not outside computer games)
    Mickorod Renard: a normal kid today plays playstation games
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Fefonz Quan: well this is different i would guess.
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Nymf
    Nymf Hathaway: Hello everyone :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Nymf
    Fefonz Quan: Hello Nymf
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello nymf
    sophia Placebo: hi nymf
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Nymf
    Wol Euler: hello nymf
    Wester Kiranov: hi Nymf
    Tarmel Udimo: hi
    Stim Morane: Nymf
    Pila Mulligan: we're still waiting for a topic, it seems
    Nymf Hathaway: Oke :)
    Pila Mulligan: unless it may be honor as an innocent childhood idea
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I thought that we are at violent videogames :)
    Tarmel Udimo: I guess the real question is can we be honorable in our dealings with ourselves?
    Wester Kiranov: well i have a suggestion
    Wester Kiranov: for a topic
    Wol Euler: mmm?
    Wester Kiranov: what exactly is this group supposed to do?
    Wol Euler: ah
    Wester Kiranov: in the recent conversations with kenji
    Pila Mulligan: supposed to do implies something that may not be there, Wester
    Wester Kiranov: something went not according to plan but i don't know what
    Mickorod Renard: explore idea's and thoughts?
    Wester Kiranov: yes, but all and any ideas and thoughts? And what are the discussion "rules"?
    Pila Mulligan: maybe the question is how do dael with situations like those with Samuel and kenji, where someone seems to go off on a tangent
    Fefonz Quan: as i saw it, kenji stepped on some toes here, which resulted in some reactions
    Pila Mulligan: deal with*
    Wester Kiranov: i'm sure i stepped on his toes too
    Fefonz Quan: which is quite understandable.
    Wol Euler nods
    Mickorod Renard: Wester, i hope you are not feeling bad about this
    Fefonz Quan: well, when the stepping on toe game starts, it is hard to stop
    Wester Kiranov: i find it difficult to stay open in those kind of situations
    Pila Mulligan: ... how to deal with group conflicts
    Wester Kiranov: I'm not feeling bad about it, but I do feel I (or we) could learn something here
    Mickorod Renard: I agree with you on that Wester
    Fefonz Quan: which is exactly what i felt was happening --> the atmosphere became closed and tensed
    Mickorod Renard: second that Fef
    Tarmel Udimo: I was only at one meeting with kenji, but he was very agressive about everything that he had to say, so perhaps it is not what he says but how he says it
    Tarmel Udimo: we have had many topics of conversation in these groups
    Mickorod Renard: I meant I agree with,,[13:28] Wester Kiranov: i find it difficult to stay open in those kind of situations Wester
    Fefonz Quan: agrees with Tarmel too
    Wester Kiranov: I felt he was very dominationg but i found it very hard to put my finger on exactly what i wanted him to stop doing
    Tarmel Udimo: I also didn't get the impression he was remotely interested in exploring anyone elses ideas
    Fefonz Quan: i think the issue was not the words, but the 'meta-conversation'. that is also why others that looked at the log didn't get what went wrong
    Tarmel Udimo: pushing buttons deliberately
    Pila Mulligan: on this question, I would ask for some wisdom from Stim, as it was last week, I beleive that we had such an encounter here
    Wester Kiranov: even when i look at the log myself i can't see what went wrong
    Fefonz Quan: i am not sure it was deliberately Tarmel, but insensitively surely
    Stim Morane: I don't have any great ideas, sorry.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Mickorod Renard: he emitted some tense feelings that i felt I picked up,,cant say much more
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm I came to this conclusion after reading the other chat logs
    Fefonz Quan: i found that is was fascinating to see the difference between what happenned in teh actial meeting and the log, the differences were huge
    Stim Morane: that is often the case, Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: actual*
    Stim Morane: especially when the situation is disturbing for the actual participants
    Fefonz Quan: yes, somehow we (i) tend to assume this is a good documentation
    Stim Morane: the log isn't very representative
    Pila Mulligan: one factor missing from the log is timing
    Stim Morane: there's a time element which is left out, for one thing. And it's different, of course, actually sitting there and feeling pressed to say or respond along certain disturbing lines.
    Wol Euler nods
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Stim Morane: in any case, I agree that one can learn from such encounters, but there may not be any one lesson that is learned across the board re such situations
    Nymf Hathaway: Has had a discussion with Kenji two or three days after the meeting at PaB and to me (at the time) and while talking with him afterwards was clear it was an sl communication-problem. He wanted to share in the conversation but his rapidl typing and confronting word-use made it seem he was a one-way person. SL can be very hard in really understanding each other.
    Mickorod Renard: I am not totaly sure that was all Nymph
    Wester Kiranov: I did feel he wanted to share too, but rapid typing and confronting word-use are not SL problems, they're general communication problems
    Mickorod Renard: In early chat logs he pointed out clearly that he had diferent values to what i presume we largely have
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Ara
    Fefonz Quan: as i saw it, there was some emotional-oriented talk going on, and he came back and took the last sentence of it and masde it into a very cold analytic (and a little provocative) philosophical debate
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Stim Morane: hi arabella
    Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
    sophia Placebo: i didnt have problem with him -or feel like i have problem communicating with him- until h kept saying that he felt he is unwanted
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
    sophia Placebo: hi ara
    Nymf Hathaway: Hello Arabella :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi ara
    Tarmel Udimo: hi Arabella
    Tarmel Udimo: and yet its interesting that he felt he couldn't come back and try to fit in with the group
    Fefonz Quan: and another thing that was interesting, was that when someone said only one thing that seemed a little provocatice to him, he immediately wa offended and made a big issue out f it
    sophia Placebo: he gives me this burden of guilt and urge to apologise or to leave so i would not to
    Pila Mulligan: it may be more a matter of his habits than is values
    Wol Euler nods
    Nymf Hathaway: Isn't it so ...we all have things to learn in life... this goes for Kenji as well of course, as for us
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm not sure Pila, the chat log about the deer I found very disturbing
    Pila Mulligan: machismo, Tarmel
    Pila Mulligan: it seemed to me at leats
    Mickorod Renard: I dont think I read that Tarmel
    Pila Mulligan: a very tough habit
    Wester Kiranov: as long as you stay on "his" subject you're trapped, you can't steer away from it, and he doesn't take metacommunication very well. And there are others like that
    Fefonz Quan: yes, they don't teach metcommunication in schools..
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: yes its a tough habit Pila but is this group a therapy group:)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,it was a rare occasion,,and i think the outcome for Kenji and the group was right,,maybe he will warm to our form of dialog and return
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Mickorod Renard: return in a way that we feel easier with him
    Pila Mulligan: I was remembering how Sam also had a compulsion to evoke conflict, there are some parallels -- and after Sam left there was some soul-searching too
    Wol Euler: Pema wrote a note to the PaB google group about this, it should be in your in-trays today :)
    Wol Euler: yes, definite paralells to Sam
    Wester Kiranov: yeah, it's a nice note
    Pila Mulligan: part of the consensus seems to be that we want to be friends
    Nymf Hathaway: Has had an encounter of 1 year with Sam behind her :)
    Wol Euler: if anyone isn't a member (and wnts to be) IM me with your e-mail address and I will add you to it.
    Tarmel Udimo: I hope this doesn't mean that only a small group of people can belong to PaB and that we are not becoming cultish:)
    sophia Placebo: short chats with sam no confrontation so far
    Fefonz Quan: yes i think Sam was very different in that sense from kenji.
    Wol Euler: in my experience Sam was fine one-on-one, only in the group did he have that compulsino to "perform"
    sophia Placebo: so .... in case of group disturber the action is ....
    Mickorod Renard: I think by having some sensitivity we come to learn how to express ourselves here,,maybe that sensitivity takes longer for some
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Nymf Hathaway: agrees with Mickorod
    Pila Mulligan: some pieces of the puzzle seem to fit easily and some don't, at least untl it is finished :)
    Wester Kiranov: what i would like is to be able to explain in a few words what this group is for, so it can be clearer what is going wrong
    Wester Kiranov: we did say things like this is not a debate, or a philosophical discussion
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Wester Kiranov: but actually none of us minds those if they are done the right way
    Fefonz Quan: oops, sorry about the caps....
    Pila Mulligan: it seems Sophia suggested some kind of protocol to deal with situations like this
    Wester Kiranov: ok,*how* then. Playful? Open?
    sophia Placebo: me0o
    Nymf Hathaway: Maybe ask that one to listen for a while instead of speaking...
    Pila Mulligan: :) time out
    Wester Kiranov: I like that one.
    sophia Placebo: or maybe we ask ourselves to listen to a while befor speaking
    Pila Mulligan: sophia Placebo: so .... in case of group disturber the action is Nymf Hathaway: Maybe ask that one to listen for a while instead of speaking -- the start of a disturbance protocol :)
    Nymf Hathaway: agrees with Sophia, nice as well
    Wester Kiranov: Put in extra silent periods, like the 15 minute bell, when things get out of hand
    Tarmel Udimo: I actually don't think anything "wrong' happened
    Pila Mulligan: but we still will need to get at the essential disturbance issue, the manner of interaction
    Wester Kiranov: because if you ask someone to be silent while the others speak, he may protest
    Fefonz Quan: yes! agree with Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: and people who create a disturbance will be that
    Mickorod Renard: do you think that we need to do this more regular,,or just if we encounter another who does not fit in ?
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night all, Namaste:)
    Tarmel Udimo: so we deal with it as it arises
    Fefonz Quan: night Scath
    sophia Placebo: bye scath
    Pila Mulligan: bye Scathach
    Tarmel Udimo: night Scath
    Wol Euler: 'night scath, take care
    Mickorod Renard: nite Scath
    Stim Morane: bye Scathach
    Wester Kiranov: bye scath
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye Scathach :)
    Pila Mulligan: I thnik it is an exceptional need, Mick -- where real conlfict is evident
    Mickorod Renard: I would like to think that as a whole we work well together normally?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I agree Mick
    Wol Euler: yes, we do. IMHO
    Wester Kiranov: i think so, yes
    Pila Mulligan: yes, this is an in-your-face situation
    Mickorod Renard: thanks Pila,,I was getting paranoid
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: there's button pushing and then there's big button pushing
    Fefonz Quan: being a paranoid doesn't say you are not chased by Mick :)
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    sophia Placebo: the thing is , poeple need time to change how they argue or how they behave
    Tarmel Udimo: agree with Sophia
    sophia Placebo: it may take more than one session with a disturber
    Fefonz Quan: I would say that even more, dealing with conflicts is a part of the way things are , and trying to artificialy prevent them from happening somehow contrasts our practice and what we are doing here
    Pila Mulligan: so maybe just let it all happen, up to and including the bad feelings
    sophia Placebo: not prevent fef , but dealing with without the feeling we done some harm to someone or to oursellves
    Wol Euler: yes, sophia, exactly
    arabella Ella: i think we too need time, patience and sensitivity as one of the things we learn here is to listen ... and it takes some longer than others to learn the ways of any group, including this one
    Wester Kiranov: helping ourselves to take a step back
    Pila Mulligan: but thinking back to the day Sam pushed Tarmel too hard, that was a seriously bad feeling moment -- then what?
    Fefonz Quan: yes to Pila. I didn't think we did harm Sophia
    arabella Ella: and my suggestion is that if we see a conflict beginning to develop between two or more members in the group we could help out by telling the regular person to take a step back and dealing with it all with increased sensitivity
    Mickorod Renard: also i see some issues we talked about in Stims WOK..I for one didnt want to confront Ken for fear of hurting his feelings,,but maybe i should have been honest
    Wol Euler: not intentionally, but I think I did hurt Kenji last week, here and in the hour-long IM session that followed it.
    sophia Placebo: no we didnt fefe , but some feels so other wise we wouldnt discuss it today or the days befor right
    Tarmel Udimo: yes it was difficult Pila but it also meantI had to step up to the plate and be honest with him which it apperas he couldn't take
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Wol Euler: that left him feeling very angry and insulted. I failed, I couldn'T get through to him
    Wester Kiranov: i stopped my IM-session with kenji when it started to get out of hand - nice to know I', not the only one he IMéd ;)
    Fefonz Quan: well Wol, it is hard to comment about your personal IM swordfights :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: didn't feel like either sam or Kenji are so concerned about the groups feelings
    Tarmel Udimo: if they were they would remain and try to fit in:)
    Pila Mulligan: maybe we are reflecting thoughts about the group's karma, if there is such a thing
    arabella Ella: well one thing which i feel sums it all up is ... some people are not in the habit of listening so however much we try ... it may need longer ... if we have the patience ...
    Fefonz Quan: i do find this issue of getting to IM interesting in that scenario.
    Mickorod Renard: I agree with Tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: it can be relaxing for some, but much more sharp and confrontential potentialy
    sophia Placebo: i agree with ara re asking the regular to step back
    Mickorod Renard: Ken made out on other logs he didnt care about what others thought,,as far as I interpretted it,,may be wrong
    Fefonz Quan: and very much depends on the personal talker rather than on the group values
    sophia Placebo: well on nearby subject
    sophia Placebo: what expression you use usually if you see 2 fighting or in conflict?
    Tarmel Udimo: sorry play meeting
    arabella Ella: i also think this is a case of some ppl being raised to deliver sermons on their own pet beliefs ... and they often end up on their own soap box without expecting anyone to contradict or question what they say
    sophia Placebo: some known phrases or something
    Pila Mulligan: bye Tarmel
    sophia Placebo: bye tarmel
    Stim Morane: bye Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: bye for now folks, keep up the good work:)
    Wol Euler: bye tarmel, take care
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye Tarmel :)
    Wester Kiranov: bye tarmel
    Mickorod Renard: bye tarmel
    arabella Ella: bye tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: bye tarmel
    Stim Morane: I must go too. Thanks for the insights, everyone!
    arabella Ella: bye stim
    Mickorod Renard: bye Stim
    Wester Kiranov: bye stim
    sophia Placebo: bye sim
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye Stim :)
    Wol Euler: bye stim, take care
    Pila Mulligan: bye Stim
    Fefonz Quan: bye Stim
    Wester Kiranov: my goodness, that time already? :-) have to leave to. bye & thanks
    Fefonz Quan: Night Wester
    sophia Placebo: bye wester
    Pila Mulligan: bye Wester
    Mickorod Renard: bye wester
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye Wester :)
    Wol Euler: 'night wester, sleep well
    arabella Ella: nite wes!
    Wester Kiranov: namaste
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure we all need to just move on,,and let things be
    Pila Mulligan: ... until next time :)
    Wol Euler: sure, there will be a next time.
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Wol Euler: Wester is right, we should consider a strategy for dealing with ... insensitivity, let's say.
    Wol Euler: (not that we weren't doing that!)
    Mickorod Renard: I think these things are like a car accident,,you cannot always foresee them regardless of how much u prepare
    Fefonz Quan: we can make a notecard, like the one we give to newbies
    arabella Ella: perhaps the note we give to newbies could include some of the values and practices of the group?
    sophia Placebo: but you can slow down so the impact is to minimum mick
    Fefonz Quan: i would say it is more like changes of teh weather
    Nymf Hathaway: I think I agree with Sophia more than with my own suggestion...if the rest would keep quiet the disturber must notice his words are doing something with the group
    Mickorod Renard: I have never slowed down Sophia,,that wud take me outside my comfort zone
    sophia Placebo: hehe
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Fefonz Quan: we have never promised you a cmomfort zone here Mick :)
    Fefonz Quan: neither comfort
    Pila Mulligan: to paraphrase Pema's emial, when people visiting in the future and try confrontation and aggressive styles, the main challenge is to point out to them, right from the beginning, that there are alternatives to their approach
    Wol Euler: I thought that was the pile of pillows over there?
    Mickorod Renard: ahh well,,you gave me one neverthe less
    Fefonz Quan: Pila's?
    Pila Mulligan: "This will remain a formidable challenge, and we should be resigned to the fact that some people will "just not understand", for quite a while at least."
    Pila Mulligan: quoting Pema
    Wol Euler nods
    sophia Placebo: i didnt understand pemas email ,practically when i imagine it , me thinks its pema style , if i do that it would come out like : my son this you are right but might be wrong too keep that in mind , i imagine the infront of me would like to chop my toung :)
    arabella Ella: yes, it can take time, longer than some of us may expect
    Pila Mulligan: but we are being taught by these experiences
    arabella Ella nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Nymf Hathaway: Hello Gandaft :)
    Mickorod Renard: until the next crash,,,,i mean conflict
    Pila Mulligan: sophia, I like the image :)
    sophia Placebo: of choping toung :)
    Mickorod Renard: ok Folks,,I have to go home..find some pillows
    sophia Placebo: bye mick
    Wol Euler: 'night Mick, sleep well
    arabella Ella: bye mick
    Pila Mulligan: bye Mick, have a comfortable evening
    Nymf Hathaway: Have a good night Mickorod :)
    Mickorod Renard: bye all,,peace be with you
    Pila Mulligan: and with you
    sophia Placebo: me too have to leave
    Pila Mulligan: bye sophia
    arabella Ella: bye sophia
    Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care.
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Sophia, Mick
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye Sophia, nice to see you again :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
    sophia Placebo: nice to see you too nymf :)
    arabella Ella: i must go too nite everyone :)
    Fefonz Quan: night Ara
    Wol Euler: goodnight ara, sleep well
    Pila Mulligan: bye arabella
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye Arabella...too fast :(
    Yakuzza Lethecus: this was a bit disturbing today
    Fefonz Quan: in what way?
    Wol Euler: say more?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just because samuel is also on my fiends list
    Pila Mulligan: mine to Yakuzza
    Pila Mulligan: too*
    Wol Euler smiles and shakes her head. I have nothing against Sam, I had many pleasant discussions with him -- away from the group.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and i never saw him aggressiv in any way
    Nymf Hathaway: I am sorry to have said something that made you feel bad Yakuzza
    Pila Mulligan: I like Sam and kenji actually, it is not their person's that were distressing to me
    Wol Euler: right
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you don´t have to if it happened in that way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but anyway it was just that i didn´t feel well
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t want to dig deeper
    Pila Mulligan: I think there were such feelings all around today
    Pila Mulligan: Wol, I wonder why your avi has not rezzed for this whole session, you are still just a Lindenesque cloud in my screen
    Wol Euler: oh, now you tell me.
    Fefonz Quan: just for you Pila
    Nymf Hathaway: :)))
    Pila Mulligan: ah, ok
    Wol Euler: lemme just rebake
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am glad my computer didin´t freeze today with the regular client
    Nymf Hathaway: Ctrl alt R should do the trick
    Fefonz Quan: what does that do Nymf?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i was already trying to use text sl
    Pila Mulligan: there's Wol now :)
    Nymf Hathaway: it rezzes your avi faster Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: ah, cool.
    Pila Mulligan: what text client did you try Yakuzza?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: text sl
    Wol Euler: it sometimes also works if you just zoom in really close on whoever wont rezz.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it is for blind people
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but you do everything like in zork
    Pila Mulligan: I tried one, but it was diffiuclt wihtout the graphics
    Wol Euler: wow.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so you have just a ,,notepad" for second life :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but it works
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but no logs and im´s didn´t work
    Wol Euler: um, how do you work that if there is no IM?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i treid ajaxlife but it didn´t work either
    Pila Mulligan: i think the one I tried was called Slim
    Pila Mulligan: but not sure
    Wol Euler: how can you move your av to a location for local chat, if you cannot see the av moving?
    Pila Mulligan: that's the dificluty Wol
    Pila Mulligan: yuo can't
    Wol Euler: huh
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just describe object
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and sit object
    Pila Mulligan: I would use the SL client to get there, then change over to the text client
    Yakuzza Lethecus: second i look for a link
    Wol Euler: how curious.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://textsl.org/
    Nymf Hathaway: resulting for Pila .... in sitting on objects he wouldn't have chosen with a visual client :) In the end I made him a special cushion..he could see in his cliet :)
    Nymf Hathaway: client
    Pila Mulligan: in fact, at Nymf's old forum there was one special cushion set aside for text cleint people, so they would not sit on someone else
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: same idea
    Nymf Hathaway: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it worked and i managed to come to the circle here one time last week
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and sad on a pillow
    Pila Mulligan: an empty one :) ?
    Nymf Hathaway: smiles
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes but i couldn´t check that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: at least eliza didn´t tell me that a took place on anyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not eliza
    Nymf Hathaway: signing up for PaB be right back :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: who is that fairy ?
    Pila Mulligan: so ont he objects list, for here, Wol, there's a list of quite a few 'zabuton ...' and you just highlight one and click sit
    Wol Euler: fael?
    Wol Euler: or stargate sometimes wears wings
    Fefonz Quan: haven't seen her in a while
    Wol Euler: she tends to be on very early, the 1am sessios
    Fefonz Quan: aha
    Wol Euler: I shall have to go, my dears, I have a sleep deficit to catch up on.
    Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care
    Pila Mulligan: bye Wol, sweet dreams
    Fefonz Quan: night Wol, sleep well
    Pila Mulligan: so now you are home, Fefonz -- nice emial about the luggage
    Nymf Hathaway: back and for the record; have a goodnight Wol
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah it was fael
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Fefonz Quan: no, i9 was on a trip home pila and came back,...
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye Yakuzza
    Fefonz Quan: and thanks
    Fefonz Quan: night Yakuzza
    Pila Mulligan: bye Yakuzza
    Pila Mulligan: do you have any relflections on your time in the US? (one's you would like to share?)
    Fefonz Quan: this time is not up yet :)
    Pila Mulligan: oh, I misunderstood
    Pila Mulligan: now I see
    Fefonz Quan: and i have a lot of reflections, not sure the PaB chat log is interested in them :)
    Pila Mulligan: :) well, I am -- but maybe another time
    Fefonz Quan: sure, anytime you like Pila
    Nymf Hathaway: Your avi looks like John Lennon Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: is it? i never noticed
    Fefonz Quan: just the glasses maybe.
    Nymf Hathaway: yes it looks nice :) maybe sing Imagine? :)
    Fefonz Quan: pum pum pum....
    Pila Mulligan: Nymf, Fefonz has been an associate of Pema's in Princeton for about a year now
    Nymf Hathaway: :))
    Nymf Hathaway: ah oke
    Nymf Hathaway: No John Lennon at all :)
    Fefonz Quan: i play the guitar though :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Nice :))
    Pila Mulligan: special projects person
    Pila Mulligan: with guitar :)
    Fefonz Quan ponders where he should be in order to be a john lennon associate...
    Nymf Hathaway: :))
    Fefonz Quan: prefer Pema's department for now :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: I should be eating something...I skipped dinner :(
    Pila Mulligan: is Pema ever going to be there in person?
    Pila Mulligan: wow, and late for you now Nymf
    Fefonz Quan: yeah, not a nice drill Nymf
    Nymf Hathaway: yes it is :(
    Pila Mulligan: my stomach would be objecting strenously
    Nymf Hathaway: it is here as well :))
    Fefonz Quan: Europe Nymf?
    Pila Mulligan: maybe a midnight snack?
    Nymf Hathaway: will be logging off, wishing you both a wonderful conversation and see you soon :)
    Nymf Hathaway: yes Netherlands
    Pila Mulligan: bye Nymf, sweet dreams ( and maybe sweet snacks)
    Fefonz Quan: nice, also Pema's homeland
    Fefonz Quan: bye Nymf
    Nymf Hathaway: yes it is :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye you both :) Pila have a lovely day
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: IMs pfff
    Nymf Hathaway: but bye now :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye :)
    Fefonz Quan: good night
    Fefonz Quan: we should have stopped the recording long ago...
    Pila Mulligan: shalll we turn off the recorder?
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