2009.06.15 19:00 - Gratitude is heaven itself

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database. Adams was guardian, filling in for Dakini.



    Adams Rubble notes recorder

    Adams Rubble: Wol and fael are good friends and really diligent technicians for PaB :)

    Adams Rubble: We are very fortunate that Pema started this group and that we each found our way here

    Adams Rubble: Grateful to Stim for his influence of what we do here and his presence in our group

    Adams Rubble: How wonderful it is that Storm has dedicated so much time to building for the group

    Adams Rubble: How many groups have their own dream expert like we do with Maxine who also is such a warm and thoughtful person

    Adams Rubble: Gen who does so much behind the scenes for Kira

    Adams Rubble: wow, the list could go on and on

    Adams Rubble remembering Pia and all she did on the website with the exerpts

    Eos Amaterasu: HI Adams!

    Adams Rubble: all the guardians who manage a session each week, some for more than a year: Caledonia, Riddle, Steve, Fael

    Adams Rubble: Hi Eos, was just sitting being grateful :)

    Adams Rubble: How are you?

    Adams Rubble: I missed you come in

    Eos Amaterasu: Good.... one of my fav William Blake quotes is "gratitude is heaven itself"

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Adams Rubble: We have quite a bit to be grateful for in this PaB group :)

    Adams Rubble: whoops

    Eos Amaterasu: I never hear the starting bell any more; I did hear the ending one

    Adams Rubble: I have a bad habit of looking at my keyboard when I type and miss the 90 second stop

    Adams Rubble: I almost never have my sound on

    Adams Rubble: it disturbs others

    Eos Amaterasu: I like to hear the brids and other sounds "-)

    Adams Rubble: all those birds and foungtains. hehe

    Adams Rubble: Hi Pila :)

    Pila Mulligan: hi Adams and Eos

    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, hi Pila!

    Adams Rubble: we are talking about being grateful

    Pila Mulligan: I also saw Dakini's emial and came to the rescue :)

    Adams Rubble: I dodn;t answwer fast enough (giggles)

    Pila Mulligan: looks like the situation is being covered well

    Pila Mulligan: ahh, like Jerry Garcia :)

    Pila Mulligan: (a little ireverence) -- The Grateful Dead

    Adams Rubble: How are things out in paradise?

    Pila Mulligan: nbice day today, thanks

    Adams Rubble: It is nice to see you both

    Eos Amaterasu: Thnx, it's nice to be here

    Adams Rubble: we had a sunny day today between many rainy days

    Pila Mulligan: thank you, Adams, and it is nice to be here indeed, Eos

    Pila Mulligan: summer is nigh at hand

    Eos Amaterasu: We're approaching the solstice

    Adams Rubble: yes

    Adams Rubble: does the temperature vary much there Pila?

    Pila Mulligan: not so much, mostly the difference between summer and winter is rainfall -- but it does vary maybe 10 degrees farenheit

    Adams Rubble: wow

    Pila Mulligan: vary by season that is

    Adams Rubble: yes

    Pila Mulligan: the big variance is by elevation -- sea level and up on the montains

    Adams Rubble: that makes sense

    Adams Rubble: I was standing on a train platform yesterday in the rain and was surprised how cold it was just about 25 feet above street level

    Eos Amaterasu: Where is this?

    Adams Rubble: nothing to block the wind

    Pila Mulligan: yes, this edge of the season weather can be funny sometimes

    Adams Rubble: central NJ

    Adams Rubble: I went to see Pema in Princeton yesterday

    Adams Rubble: and Fefonz too

    Adams Rubble: Had a nice lunch :)

    Adams Rubble: nice to see them

    Eos Amaterasu: :-)

    Adams Rubble: An interesting thing happened

    Pila Mulligan: Pema must have a treasure trove of frequenet flyer miles

    Adams Rubble: Fefonz and Pema were talking about "self"

    Adams Rubble: yes Pila, quite a schedule

    Adams Rubble: and Pema suggested an exercise

    Pila Mulligan: ah, self, what a topic

    Adams Rubble: that we try to talk from Being rather than self

    Pila Mulligan: is there a distinction ?

    Adams Rubble: I was looking at Pema funny, something that we can't do too easily here

    Adams Rubble: and was very dubious and a bit resistent

    Adams Rubble: As you noted there Pila, I thought I was talking from a higher vantage point

    Adams Rubble: but then Fefonz told some stories about acting class where they had to instantly play a role

    Adams Rubble: and gave another example which I forgot

    Adams Rubble: and I noted that I never had had an expereince like that

    Adams Rubble: and then just like that, I could see my "self" resisting Pema's exercise

    Adams Rubble: It was kind of humbling

    Adams Rubble: and I've been slightly unsettled since

    Adams Rubble: but here comes the light :)

    Adams Rubble: just on cue

    Eos Amaterasu: that's a great story

    Eos Amaterasu: how you caught yourself

    Adams Rubble: or got caught :)

    Pila Mulligan: did Pema elaborate upon the idea?

    Adams Rubble: Not too much, with all the discussion we really didn;t get the exercise done and time was short

    Pila Mulligan: maybe he will have time to do so here eventually

    Adams Rubble nods

    Adams Rubble: He often proposes impromptu exercises and I have always resisted

    Adams Rubble: hehe

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: but the situation did present you with yourself resisting, seemingly, your ability to present, just as, just as, just as, whatever comes up

    Eos Amaterasu: here comes the Sun king :-)

    Adams Rubble: yes, we'll se what happens nexxt time :)

    Eos Amaterasu: Shall we try it here?

    Adams Rubble: everyone will know now that I am a resister :)

    Adams Rubble: uh oh

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Adams Rubble: talk as if we are Being talking?

    Eos Amaterasu: talk as if we are self talking?

    Pila Mulligan: this statement is attributed to Confucius: "Stop listening with your ears and listen with your mind. Then stop listening with your mind and listen with your primal spirit. Hearing is limited to the ear. Mind is limited to tallying things up. But the primal spirit is empty: it's simply that which awaits things."

    Pila Mulligan: the same could be saind of speaking, as well as listneing

    Eos Amaterasu: if the gate is open, the wind speaks

    Adams Rubble: nice Pila

    Adams Rubble: my "self" has already talked of resisting

    Adams Rubble: not sure what Being would say through me. Seems Being was speaking through Pila :)

    Pila Mulligan: Being would say through anyone just what they say :)

    Pila Mulligan: Confucius was speaking thru Pila :)

    Adams Rubble: Being noticed that my self was frightened by the experiement

    Eos Amaterasu: It's not "Confucius says"....It's "Being sez"

    Adams Rubble: was Being speaaking through Confucius?

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Pila Mulligan: well, it seems to me the idea of the exercise was to decrease subjectivity

    Pila Mulligan: your subjective self said uh-uh

    Pila Mulligan: or oh-oh

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: expose the self

    Eos Amaterasu: which means Being articulated your self to yourself

    Eos Amaterasu: there is moment of panic - what will I do/say

    Pila Mulligan: ultimately it becomes a very fine point to distinguish Self and Being

    Eos Amaterasu: I can't do this

    Eos Amaterasu: I'll blow it

    Eos Amaterasu: little narratives

    Eos Amaterasu: very clingy

    Eos Amaterasu: then they blow away momentarily

    Adams Rubble nods

    Eos Amaterasu: and "spirit" speaks, as Confucius said

    Pila Mulligan: the Chinese term 'primal spirit' could be called a term of art -- it is used a lot in Chinese philosophy -- it is something we connect with in the same sense as people use the term enlightenment

    Eos Amaterasu: then it's not so much about "you"

    Adams Rubble: yes!

    Eos Amaterasu: and spontaneity (spirit?) can arise appropriately

    Adams Rubble: yes

    Eos Amaterasu: I sometimes wonder, what would there be to say?

    Adams Rubble: you man if we just decide here and now to talk as Being?

    Eos Amaterasu: But things arise, and our speech is one of those

    Adams Rubble: Pila could quote Confucius, that leaves you and I, Eos :)

    Adams Rubble giggles

    Pila Mulligan: here's another view, from Lao Tse: "Simplify your problems. Mask your brightness. Be at one with the dust of the Earth. This is primal union."

    Eos Amaterasu: uh oh!

    Adams Rubble: that one needs a bit of commentary for me Pila :)

    Adams Rubble: how does one become one with the dust wothout dying?

    Pila Mulligan: oh ... it is not self-evident Adams?

    Adams Rubble: my self is thinking of dust mites :)

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Pila Mulligan: be at one with anything then

    Adams Rubble: ah

    Pila Mulligan: and try working up to the earth :)

    Adams Rubble: ;0

    Adams Rubble: ;0

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Pila Mulligan: or down, as the case may be

    Adams Rubble: hehe

    Adams Rubble: depending where one starts

    Adams Rubble: there's a metaphor in there

    Adams Rubble: if life is hell :)

    Eos Amaterasu: we're kind of presented by being anyway, though we think we're the ones presenting ourselves

    Pila Mulligan: now here is a third take from Lu Tung-Pin: "In the midst of primal becoming, the radiance of the Light is the determining thing. In the physical world it is the sun; in man the eye."

    Eos Amaterasu: en light en meant

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Pila Mulligan: so these Chinese ancients are talking about the same idea: primal becoming arises amidst the radiance of light primal union involves simplicity, modesty and being at one primal spirit is empty, it simply awaits things

    Pila Mulligan: the primal terminology may relate well to the idea of Being

    Eos Amaterasu: related to that is the 3rd (or was it the 6th?) patriarch saying "do not search for the truth - only cease to cherish opinions"

    Adams Rubble: It seems not so different from Love

    Pila Mulligan: yep

    Pila Mulligan: I think love and compassion are the next step, actually, Adams

    Pila Mulligan: these being close, but a preliminary step

    Eos Amaterasu: the groove is in the heart

    Pila Mulligan: and int he end day does not come before night or vice versa

    Pila Mulligan: the Hindu phrase sat chit ananda can be said to mean bliss results from awareness of reality ...

    Pila Mulligan: so we may approach the idea of enlightenment as 'becoming aware of reality' and hopefully find bliss ...

    Pila Mulligan: ... and then what?

    Pila Mulligan: to me, love and compassion are the answer to then what

    Adams Rubble nods

    Adams Rubble: Love is a great cure all to much that ails us

    Pila Mulligan: it is perhaps the best description of primal spirit

    Eos Amaterasu: what is loving from Being?

    Pila Mulligan: yep :)

    Adams Rubble: I am afraid I am getting very sleepy

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Adams Rubble: It has been nice chatting with you both :)

    Pila Mulligan: do you want to do the log Adams, or should Eos or I do it?

    Eos Amaterasu: thnx, Adams :-)

    Adams Rubble: Yep I have it. If you want to talk more I'll get it

    Pila Mulligan: ok, sweet dreams :)

    Adams Rubble: thanks good night :)

    Eos Amaterasu: That was a spectacular dress Adams had!

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: Musicians sometimes "play the hall"

    Pila Mulligan: did you see Pema's going back to Japan now?

    Pila Mulligan: "play the hall" being ...?

    Eos Amaterasu: So it seems - you mean long term?

    Pila Mulligan: well, he just mentioned he is flying there soon -- seems he travels a lot :)

    Eos Amaterasu: Speaking of the Grateful Dead, they would play what was there

    Pila Mulligan: ahh

    Pila Mulligan: cool

    Eos Amaterasu: I also met a violinist who spoke of playing Chartres Cathedral

    Pila Mulligan: letting the place do the music

    Eos Amaterasu: the space has its character, including the people in it

    Pila Mulligan: I like to do that in the forest -- take a drum or a flute and play in repsonse to or with the sounds there

    Pila Mulligan: it gets quite high, naturally

    Eos Amaterasu: riding the bull playing a flute

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Pila Mulligan: birds are quite symphonic is a jazz kind of way

    Eos Amaterasu: Heidegger says, "language is the clearing of Being"

    Eos Amaterasu: language is Being opening up

    Pila Mulligan: :) cleaning would almost work there too

    Eos Amaterasu: when still, hearing a bird sound can be a great way to catch your mind leaping out

    Eos Amaterasu: or being leaped

    Pila Mulligan: Lao Tse: "The sage has no mind of his own"

    Eos Amaterasu: No matter. Never mind. :-)

    Pila Mulligan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILhXlJp2hqE

    Pila Mulligan: Jerry Garcia, Tangled Up in Blue

    Eos Amaterasu: all I knew how to do, was to keep on keeping on, like a bird that flew, tangled up in blue

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: bodhisattva electric guitar

    Pila Mulligan: Barbara Meier: I remember reading Ram Dass describe you as a bodhisattva. Jerry Garcia: He's very kind, but I don't deserve that. I'm just a guy trying to play the right notes, that's all. If I were to think of myself in a spiritual context, however, I'd think of myself as some sort of Buddhist.

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: I know (knew) Barbara (she was a buddhist)

    Pila Mulligan: Barbara Meier: Well, music is your practice. When I hear you in concert, I feel you want to push the energy further and further, taking the crowd along with you. Jerry Garcia: I don't do it consciously.

    Pila Mulligan: seems like he was too :)

    Pila Mulligan: https://www.tricycle.com/jerry-garci...-barbara-meier

    Pila Mulligan: "Barbara and Jerry had this conversation in June of 1991"

    Eos Amaterasu: "To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe."

    Eos Amaterasu: - J Garcia

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: mountains and rivers

    Pila Mulligan: We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.

    Eos Amaterasu: Speaking from blue

    Eos Amaterasu: Great performance :-)

    Pila Mulligan: really !

    Pila Mulligan: ah, the Revolution :0

    Eos Amaterasu: there's acting from Being

    Eos Amaterasu: I suppose there's speaking from Being

    Eos Amaterasu: there's being enacted by Being

    Pila Mulligan: and especially singing form Being

    Pila Mulligan: from

    Eos Amaterasu: a multi-billion year-old symphoney

    Pila Mulligan: the other day a nwebie at Kira was aksing if science has enough of a handle on the idea of time to determine if there is such a thing as non-time

    Pila Mulligan: interesting question

    Pila Mulligan: no one there knew :)

    Eos Amaterasu: Dogen knew :-)

    Pila Mulligan: this was for scinetists :)

    Pila Mulligan: to do him justice, here is the question as posed: [11:10] Beragon Betts: i have a question about time tho, if that will help [11:11] Beragon Betts: well.... relativity explains gravity as a distortion in the fabric of spacetime by a mass and attempts to harminze relativity with quantum mechanics tries to find a "graviton" particle or quanta of gravity so if gravity can be quantized, can time be quantized? [11:12] Beragon Betts: that is - is there a quanta of time less than which there is not time?

    Pila Mulligan: now ins't that a nice question :)

    Eos Amaterasu: there's no time to answer that question :-)

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Pila Mulligan: I cna just barely grasp the question, much less imagine an answer

    Pila Mulligan: but I'd love to see some phsyicists give it a go

    Eos Amaterasu: I think awareness is starting to be discussed as being as primordial as 'space', 'time', 'energy'.... not really reducible

    Pila Mulligan: yes, isn't it fun ...to see concepts like entanglement in science

    Eos Amaterasu: http://www.twine.com/item/126fbyh1z-...e-and-religion

    Eos Amaterasu: Well, l8t, must sleep, thnx for the conversation, Pila!

    Pila Mulligan: thanks Eos, it was fun

    Pila Mulligan: sleep well

    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!

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