2009.06.17 07:00 - Stop Chasing the Carrot

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.

    Eliza Madrigal: :::whistles a tune:::
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick, Fef :)
    Fefonz Quan: hello Eliza, Mick
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya eliza, Fef
    Mickorod Renard: Eliza..whats happening re the scribe now?
    Eliza Madrigal: Good question. What would you like to happen?
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Eliza Madrigal: I think Wol expressed the need for a break...
    Mickorod Renard: well..I would be happy to share with you,,months about
    Eliza Madrigal: so either of us could take her slot, and the other Solo's...
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh..door, brb
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Mickorod Renard: what are you up to Fef? what time is it there?
    Mickorod Renard: its 15;12 here
    Fefonz Quan: 10:10 am
    Mickorod Renard: just got up then..? he he
    Fefonz Quan: yep!
    Mickorod Renard: I do half a day on wednesdays
    Fefonz Quan: nice. so its good you had time to come
    Fefonz Quan: lately this session is quite empty
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,and my family are away for a couple of days too,,and its raining
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,strange how sometimes sessions are quiet
    Mickorod Renard: I thought my slot yesterday was going to be quiet,,but in the end was busy
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Fefonz Quan: this also overlaps Kira meeting, i guess it has also some effect
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: that new chap,,hein,,seemed to be ok,,I wonder if he will come again
    Fefonz Quan: hein? havent seen him
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure that was his name
    Fefonz Quan: didn't say it wasn't :)
    Mickorod Renard: I wonder how the Iran thing is going to pan out
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Mickorod Renard: seems there is always one thing or another going on
    Mickorod Renard: I sometimes wonder if these things are orchestrated,,to keep some ever turning momentum
    Fefonz Quan: maybe the other way around - the ever turning momentum drive these things
    Mickorod Renard: mmmmm a thought
    Mickorod Renard: I was always up to something new,,restless..and now I seem to have calmed down,,and look on some things as rather a waste of time and energy
    Mickorod Renard: I guess that comes with age
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i know what you mean
    Fefonz Quan: not sure about age. i find that in times of reacher persoanl life, the outside events (globaly outside) seem to be less crucial/agitating
    Mickorod Renard: yes I think you are right
    Fefonz Quan: (reacher and calmer in a way, not reacher and hectic)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Fefonz Quan: in other times, the news are a common way to bring out ones anger and frustration, mainly when you have nothing to do about it
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,and the news people have a business to run also
    Fefonz Quan: - or just keep us entertained, too
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Fefonz Quan: not tosay that there aren't important things going on out there
    Mickorod Renard: I sometimes think I have been driven by the carrot,,dangling under my nose too
    Fefonz Quan: carrot?
    Mickorod Renard: do you understand that term?
    Mickorod Renard: ahh
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,donkeys are stuborn animals
    Fefonz Quan: like a horse?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: and to make them move an inticement is needed
    Fefonz Quan: well, it is interesting to see what kinds of carrots are effecting us
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats the point
    Mickorod Renard: and strangely,,i am comming to understand that the carrot never gets any nearer to being eaten
    Fefonz Quan: didn't freud say something about the pleasure principle?
    Mickorod Renard: lol, I am not sure
    Fefonz Quan: you being eaten?
    Fefonz Quan: ah no, th carrot
    Mickorod Renard: no,,getting to eat the hypethetical carrot
    Fefonz Quan: or maybe the minute you eat it there pops up another
    Mickorod Renard: finding motivation is good,,but I am sure I have been led in directions that are not entirely nessesary
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,that is more like it Fef
    Mickorod Renard: a conditioning again
    Fefonz Quan: so that another way to define our practice here - stop chasing the carrot.
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Fefonz Quan: stand and see it for what it is.
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I wonder where that fits in,,in the appa or the apb or whatever
    Fefonz Quan: if you can see that the carrot is only an appearance, you can be freeer from its imaginary effect
    Mickorod Renard: well..I think I am comming to understand this,,but to break a habit of a lifetime will take some doing
    Fefonz Quan: yup!
    Mickorod Renard: hopefully soon I will be moving home,,but I know the lure to borrow more money,,to get a bigger house will present itself
    Mickorod Renard: its not nessesary though
    Fefonz Quan: moving home where?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,i am in a rented home waiting for my other one,,in france,,to sell
    Fefonz Quan: ah, dodn't know you are french
    Mickorod Renard: no, i am english,,but have lived in france for 8 years..am in uk now
    Fefonz Quan: so you are susceptible to the Euro/Pound rates...
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,at the moment I should benefit,,but in 3 months who knows
    Mickorod Renard: also house pices are low in the uk
    Mickorod Renard: prices
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi...apologies. I'm surprised to be signed on still! :)
    Fefonz Quan: cool, good for you
    Mickorod Renard: so i need to profit from the circumstances
    Fefonz Quan: we enjoyed your quiet presence Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe. Thanks :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hii
    Mickorod Renard: ok eliza,,I guess we cud relieve Wol
    Fefonz Quan: we mostly discussed the carrots leading us
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,those darn carrots
    Eliza Madrigal: carrots leading us? haha
    Eliza Madrigal: Mick, sounds good to me. Which session would you like? :)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,i suppose I cud do the same as last time
    Mickorod Renard: cos my head has sorted that out already
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay...then it won't come around too early for you next time :)
    Mickorod Renard: I dont know when Wols is
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll look it up and let her know :)
    Mickorod Renard: did u look at my last one
    Eliza Madrigal: Don't you like reading a block of sessions like that? I do. And yes I did...
    Mickorod Renard: I couldnt think to do it any other way
    Eliza Madrigal: thought you did well. I should have helped you with the formatting because I had to post mine several times before getting type right, etc
    Mickorod Renard: i was concious of cutting and pasting,,but each log was so full of interesting stuff i didnt want to leave much out
    Eliza Madrigal: YES!
    Mickorod Renard: I wud like to have put a bit of poetry or quotes from other people,, but didnt know where we stand on copyright infringement
    Eliza Madrigal: Mick, if it is your poetry, there's no infringement ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that as long as you attribute it is okay
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I was thinking of proper stuff,,like wordsworth etc
    Mickorod Renard: or keats
    Eliza Madrigal nods... nice.
    Eliza Madrigal: Last time I made a poem out of some of the dialog... but that was when I did the wrong days
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Mickorod Renard: he he eh
    Mickorod Renard: I was suprised how big the logs were
    Mickorod Renard: I try and cut my logs down
    Eliza Madrigal: The 1PMs are long especially. Some of my sessions too.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I stay two hours :)
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Mickorod Renard: it proves a point though, that many sessions are liked and well stimulating
    Eliza Madrigal: It just seems to me that the first 30 minutes or so there is a settling and lots of hellos... so there can come a certain something after an hr... a different feel. Donno. And certainly not always.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Eliza Madrigal: I like that in Summer I can attend more of the 1PM. Those seem vibrant often
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,there is a span of availability across a wider rl world at that time too
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Mickorod Renard: I guess
    Eliza Madrigal: Fef, is the time workshop today?
    Fefonz Quan: yes it is
    Mickorod Renard: I like time issues,,but dont know if I can make it
    Eliza Madrigal: I like to listen on that one when I can :)
    Fefonz Quan: well just drop by whenever you like.
    Mickorod Renard: are you responsible for it Fef?
    Fefonz Quan: am one of the organizers, though it is quite democratic :)
    Mickorod Renard: nice
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm fascinated by Dogen.
    Eliza Madrigal: Are you still discussing that piece?
    Fefonz Quan: yes, me too.
    Fefonz Quan: sometimes, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Excellent
    Mickorod Renard: do you think you have made any special observations in the class discussion?
    Fefonz Quan: hard to say, i think we had interesting duscussions.
    Eliza Madrigal: I've thought a bit lately about time and bugs... about the span of 'life' from the perspective of a being which does not measure past/future
    Fefonz Quan: i think the views of different people are broadening ones understanding
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,to you both
    Fefonz Quan: interesting perspective, yes
    Mickorod Renard: I have lots of thoughts on time too,,but I wish i cud get it into one story in my head
    Mickorod Renard: so fragmented
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe it will piece together in dreams. :)
    Mickorod Renard: ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: That's another thing I've thought about... that writers sometimes have one major work which defines them... many artists actually....
    Eliza Madrigal: time is different in creative things
    Eliza Madrigal: one burst can measure more than a decade of plugging away
    Mickorod Renard: how do you mean eliza?
    Fefonz Quan: indeed
    Mickorod Renard: ahh I see..i think
    Mickorod Renard: some idea's are now just feelings that wors cannot describe
    Mickorod Renard: words
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and one hopes that they will all come together at some point.
    Fefonz Quan: brb
    Mickorod Renard: they frustrate me,,because without words they are dificult to talk about
    Eliza Madrigal: PaB helps there doesn't it? We talk about things we can't talk about, a lot!
    Mickorod Renard: or even manipulate into sense
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: When others share their frustrations in trying to form questions and sentences about the edges of things, I feel very comforted
    Mickorod Renard: he he he ,,me too
    Mickorod Renard: I took to running time backwards the other week,,in a simulation in my head
    Mickorod Renard: it was both obvious but also enlightening
    Eliza Madrigal: how interesting, in what way?
    Mickorod Renard: well...it all narrowed down to the beginning of creation
    Eliza Madrigal: wow
    Mickorod Renard: and went down into a decreasing cone
    Eliza Madrigal: to a *point*?
    Mickorod Renard: so I then ran it back and forth
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: because the conundrum was,,for me,,I am a single entity
    Fefonz Quan: back
    Mickorod Renard: hi
    Eliza Madrigal: wb Fef
    Mickorod Renard: but I concluded that there must be many diferent stories
    Mickorod Renard: but due to the expansion of time..from the begining
    Mickorod Renard: there must be many ,,like fractal images of alternate story lines
    Mickorod Renard: anyway.it gets so odd I had best end there
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Eliza Madrigal: haha...am enjoying the oddness
    Eliza Madrigal: a mosaic of fractal patterns overlapping
    Mickorod Renard: yes..or like cones from cones
    Fefonz Quan: concones
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Mickorod Renard: but at the beginning,,I guess we emitted from light source,,and did it expand out in all directions
    Mickorod Renard: and if so,,well..too deep
    Fefonz Quan: light in a very broad sense
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: What about this idea that there is a sort of tear in dimensions? the heat being evenly distributed in the universe, etc?
    Mickorod Renard: can smell overload smoke comming out my head
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Fefonz Quan: tear? in what sense?
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Mind you, I'm not good with terms, but in writing about the 11 dimensions...
    Mickorod Renard: well,,there is much debate on those topics,,i dont think anyone is any the wiser
    Eliza Madrigal: isn't there an idea that our four were somehow a part of this.... but a split happened
    Fefonz Quan: four?
    Mickorod Renard: dimensions
    Fefonz Quan: ah.
    Mickorod Renard: I dont know Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I just wondered because when we talk about this expansion...
    Eliza Madrigal: or beginning 'point' my mind goes there
    Mickorod Renard: thats why i find it hard running from creation,,seems easier the oposite way around
    Eliza Madrigal: "Running From Creation" sounds like a book title!
    Mickorod Renard: it does
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Fefonz Quan: yes :)
    Mickorod Renard: must look it up,,maybe its a subliminal message
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm
    Eliza Madrigal: I better go for a bit. I really enjoyed this morning. Thanks to you both.
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,I have to leave
    Mickorod Renard: me too
    Fefonz Quan: have a good day Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye for now. You too
    Mickorod Renard: when is time,,in case i find some?
    Fefonz Quan: bye mick
    Mickorod Renard: bye eliza
    Fefonz Quan: 11am Slt
    Mickorod Renard: Bye Fef..thanks
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