2009.06.17 07:00 - Stop Chasing the Carrot

The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.

Eliza Madrigal: :::whistles a tune:::
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick, Fef :)
Fefonz Quan: hello Eliza, Mick
Mickorod Renard: Hiya eliza, Fef
Mickorod Renard: Eliza..whats happening re the scribe now?
Eliza Madrigal: Good question. What would you like to happen?
Mickorod Renard: grin
Eliza Madrigal: I think Wol expressed the need for a break...
Mickorod Renard: well..I would be happy to share with you,,months about
Eliza Madrigal: so either of us could take her slot, and the other Solo's...
Eliza Madrigal: Oh..door, brb
Mickorod Renard: ok
Mickorod Renard: what are you up to Fef? what time is it there?
Mickorod Renard: its 15;12 here
Fefonz Quan: 10:10 am
Mickorod Renard: just got up then..? he he
Fefonz Quan: yep!
Mickorod Renard: I do half a day on wednesdays
Fefonz Quan: nice. so its good you had time to come
Fefonz Quan: lately this session is quite empty
Mickorod Renard: yes,,and my family are away for a couple of days too,,and its raining
Mickorod Renard: yes,,strange how sometimes sessions are quiet
Mickorod Renard: I thought my slot yesterday was going to be quiet,,but in the end was busy
Mickorod Renard: oops
Fefonz Quan: this also overlaps Kira meeting, i guess it has also some effect
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: that new chap,,hein,,seemed to be ok,,I wonder if he will come again
Fefonz Quan: hein? havent seen him
Mickorod Renard: I am sure that was his name
Fefonz Quan: didn't say it wasn't :)
Mickorod Renard: I wonder how the Iran thing is going to pan out
Fefonz Quan nods
Mickorod Renard: seems there is always one thing or another going on
Mickorod Renard: I sometimes wonder if these things are orchestrated,,to keep some ever turning momentum
Fefonz Quan: maybe the other way around - the ever turning momentum drive these things
Mickorod Renard: mmmmm a thought
Mickorod Renard: I was always up to something new,,restless..and now I seem to have calmed down,,and look on some things as rather a waste of time and energy
Mickorod Renard: I guess that comes with age
Fefonz Quan: yes, i know what you mean
Fefonz Quan: not sure about age. i find that in times of reacher persoanl life, the outside events (globaly outside) seem to be less crucial/agitating
Mickorod Renard: yes I think you are right
Fefonz Quan: (reacher and calmer in a way, not reacher and hectic)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Fefonz Quan: in other times, the news are a common way to bring out ones anger and frustration, mainly when you have nothing to do about it
Mickorod Renard: yes,,and the news people have a business to run also
Fefonz Quan: - or just keep us entertained, too
Mickorod Renard: grin
Fefonz Quan: not tosay that there aren't important things going on out there
Mickorod Renard: I sometimes think I have been driven by the carrot,,dangling under my nose too
Fefonz Quan: carrot?
Mickorod Renard: do you understand that term?
Mickorod Renard: ahh
Mickorod Renard: ok,,donkeys are stuborn animals
Fefonz Quan: like a horse?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: and to make them move an inticement is needed
Fefonz Quan: well, it is interesting to see what kinds of carrots are effecting us
Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats the point
Mickorod Renard: and strangely,,i am comming to understand that the carrot never gets any nearer to being eaten
Fefonz Quan: didn't freud say something about the pleasure principle?
Mickorod Renard: lol, I am not sure
Fefonz Quan: you being eaten?
Fefonz Quan: ah no, th carrot
Mickorod Renard: no,,getting to eat the hypethetical carrot
Fefonz Quan: or maybe the minute you eat it there pops up another
Mickorod Renard: finding motivation is good,,but I am sure I have been led in directions that are not entirely nessesary
Mickorod Renard: yes,,that is more like it Fef
Mickorod Renard: a conditioning again
Fefonz Quan: so that another way to define our practice here - stop chasing the carrot.
Mickorod Renard: yes
Fefonz Quan: stand and see it for what it is.
Mickorod Renard: yes,,I wonder where that fits in,,in the appa or the apb or whatever
Fefonz Quan: if you can see that the carrot is only an appearance, you can be freeer from its imaginary effect
Mickorod Renard: well..I think I am comming to understand this,,but to break a habit of a lifetime will take some doing
Fefonz Quan: yup!
Mickorod Renard: hopefully soon I will be moving home,,but I know the lure to borrow more money,,to get a bigger house will present itself
Mickorod Renard: its not nessesary though
Fefonz Quan: moving home where?
Mickorod Renard: well,,i am in a rented home waiting for my other one,,in france,,to sell
Fefonz Quan: ah, dodn't know you are french
Mickorod Renard: no, i am english,,but have lived in france for 8 years..am in uk now
Fefonz Quan: so you are susceptible to the Euro/Pound rates...
Mickorod Renard: yes,,at the moment I should benefit,,but in 3 months who knows
Mickorod Renard: also house pices are low in the uk
Mickorod Renard: prices
Eliza Madrigal: Hi...apologies. I'm surprised to be signed on still! :)
Fefonz Quan: cool, good for you
Mickorod Renard: so i need to profit from the circumstances
Fefonz Quan: we enjoyed your quiet presence Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: hehe. Thanks :)
Mickorod Renard: Hii
Mickorod Renard: ok eliza,,I guess we cud relieve Wol
Fefonz Quan: we mostly discussed the carrots leading us
Mickorod Renard: yes,,those darn carrots
Eliza Madrigal: carrots leading us? haha
Eliza Madrigal: Mick, sounds good to me. Which session would you like? :)
Mickorod Renard: well,,i suppose I cud do the same as last time
Mickorod Renard: cos my head has sorted that out already
Eliza Madrigal: Okay...then it won't come around too early for you next time :)
Mickorod Renard: I dont know when Wols is
Eliza Madrigal: I'll look it up and let her know :)
Mickorod Renard: did u look at my last one
Eliza Madrigal: Don't you like reading a block of sessions like that? I do. And yes I did...
Mickorod Renard: I couldnt think to do it any other way
Eliza Madrigal: thought you did well. I should have helped you with the formatting because I had to post mine several times before getting type right, etc
Mickorod Renard: i was concious of cutting and pasting,,but each log was so full of interesting stuff i didnt want to leave much out
Eliza Madrigal: YES!
Mickorod Renard: I wud like to have put a bit of poetry or quotes from other people,, but didnt know where we stand on copyright infringement
Eliza Madrigal: Mick, if it is your poetry, there's no infringement ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: I think that as long as you attribute it is okay
Mickorod Renard: well,,I was thinking of proper stuff,,like wordsworth etc
Mickorod Renard: or keats
Eliza Madrigal nods... nice.
Eliza Madrigal: Last time I made a poem out of some of the dialog... but that was when I did the wrong days
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Mickorod Renard: he he eh
Mickorod Renard: I was suprised how big the logs were
Mickorod Renard: I try and cut my logs down
Eliza Madrigal: The 1PMs are long especially. Some of my sessions too.
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I stay two hours :)
Mickorod Renard: wow
Mickorod Renard: it proves a point though, that many sessions are liked and well stimulating
Eliza Madrigal: It just seems to me that the first 30 minutes or so there is a settling and lots of hellos... so there can come a certain something after an hr... a different feel. Donno. And certainly not always.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Fefonz Quan nods
Eliza Madrigal: I like that in Summer I can attend more of the 1PM. Those seem vibrant often
Mickorod Renard: yes,,there is a span of availability across a wider rl world at that time too
Eliza Madrigal nods
Mickorod Renard: I guess
Eliza Madrigal: Fef, is the time workshop today?
Fefonz Quan: yes it is
Mickorod Renard: I like time issues,,but dont know if I can make it
Eliza Madrigal: I like to listen on that one when I can :)
Fefonz Quan: well just drop by whenever you like.
Mickorod Renard: are you responsible for it Fef?
Fefonz Quan: am one of the organizers, though it is quite democratic :)
Mickorod Renard: nice
Eliza Madrigal: I'm fascinated by Dogen.
Eliza Madrigal: Are you still discussing that piece?
Fefonz Quan: yes, me too.
Fefonz Quan: sometimes, yes
Eliza Madrigal: Excellent
Mickorod Renard: do you think you have made any special observations in the class discussion?
Fefonz Quan: hard to say, i think we had interesting duscussions.
Eliza Madrigal: I've thought a bit lately about time and bugs... about the span of 'life' from the perspective of a being which does not measure past/future
Fefonz Quan: i think the views of different people are broadening ones understanding
Mickorod Renard: yes,,to you both
Fefonz Quan: interesting perspective, yes
Mickorod Renard: I have lots of thoughts on time too,,but I wish i cud get it into one story in my head
Mickorod Renard: so fragmented
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it will piece together in dreams. :)
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: That's another thing I've thought about... that writers sometimes have one major work which defines them... many artists actually....
Eliza Madrigal: time is different in creative things
Eliza Madrigal: one burst can measure more than a decade of plugging away
Mickorod Renard: how do you mean eliza?
Fefonz Quan: indeed
Mickorod Renard: ahh I see..i think
Mickorod Renard: some idea's are now just feelings that wors cannot describe
Mickorod Renard: words
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and one hopes that they will all come together at some point.
Fefonz Quan: brb
Mickorod Renard: they frustrate me,,because without words they are dificult to talk about
Eliza Madrigal: PaB helps there doesn't it? We talk about things we can't talk about, a lot!
Mickorod Renard: or even manipulate into sense
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: When others share their frustrations in trying to form questions and sentences about the edges of things, I feel very comforted
Mickorod Renard: he he he ,,me too
Mickorod Renard: I took to running time backwards the other week,,in a simulation in my head
Mickorod Renard: it was both obvious but also enlightening
Eliza Madrigal: how interesting, in what way?
Mickorod Renard: well...it all narrowed down to the beginning of creation
Eliza Madrigal: wow
Mickorod Renard: and went down into a decreasing cone
Eliza Madrigal: to a *point*?
Mickorod Renard: so I then ran it back and forth
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: because the conundrum was,,for me,,I am a single entity
Fefonz Quan: back
Mickorod Renard: hi
Eliza Madrigal: wb Fef
Mickorod Renard: but I concluded that there must be many diferent stories
Mickorod Renard: but due to the expansion of time..from the begining
Mickorod Renard: there must be many ,,like fractal images of alternate story lines
Mickorod Renard: anyway.it gets so odd I had best end there
Mickorod Renard: grin
Eliza Madrigal: haha...am enjoying the oddness
Eliza Madrigal: a mosaic of fractal patterns overlapping
Mickorod Renard: yes..or like cones from cones
Fefonz Quan: concones
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Mickorod Renard: but at the beginning,,I guess we emitted from light source,,and did it expand out in all directions
Mickorod Renard: and if so,,well..too deep
Fefonz Quan: light in a very broad sense
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eliza Madrigal: What about this idea that there is a sort of tear in dimensions? the heat being evenly distributed in the universe, etc?
Mickorod Renard: can smell overload smoke comming out my head
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Fefonz Quan: tear? in what sense?
Fefonz Quan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Mind you, I'm not good with terms, but in writing about the 11 dimensions...
Mickorod Renard: well,,there is much debate on those topics,,i dont think anyone is any the wiser
Eliza Madrigal: isn't there an idea that our four were somehow a part of this.... but a split happened
Fefonz Quan: four?
Mickorod Renard: dimensions
Fefonz Quan: ah.
Mickorod Renard: I dont know Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I just wondered because when we talk about this expansion...
Eliza Madrigal: or beginning 'point' my mind goes there
Mickorod Renard: thats why i find it hard running from creation,,seems easier the oposite way around
Eliza Madrigal: "Running From Creation" sounds like a book title!
Mickorod Renard: it does
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fefonz Quan: yes :)
Mickorod Renard: must look it up,,maybe its a subliminal message
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm
Eliza Madrigal: I better go for a bit. I really enjoyed this morning. Thanks to you both.
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I have to leave
Mickorod Renard: me too
Fefonz Quan: have a good day Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye for now. You too
Mickorod Renard: when is time,,in case i find some?
Fefonz Quan: bye mick
Mickorod Renard: bye eliza
Fefonz Quan: 11am Slt
Mickorod Renard: Bye Fef..thanks