2009.06.19 01:00 - We need to re-learn our nature

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    Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session.

    Wol Euler: I'm waiting for a repairman, so I will have to drop out for a while at some stage.

    Nymf Hathaway: Wol, did you create the Listeners device?

    Nymf Hathaway: oke :)

    Wol Euler: it was a collaborative effort. Fael and Ade also wrote parts of it.

    Wol Euler: but yes, it seems to have become mostly my project

    Nymf Hathaway: wonderful :)

    Wol Euler: ty :)

    Wol Euler: how are you today?

    Nymf Hathaway: doing well thank you, and you?

    Wol Euler: quite well, thanks. Looking forward to teh weekend

    Nymf Hathaway: yes same here :)

    Nymf Hathaway: worked hard this week

    Wol Euler nods

    Nymf Hathaway: Last sunshine here today... weekend will be raining and less warm...but to rise again on monday :)

    Nymf Hathaway: Hello Bertrum :)

    Wol Euler: hello bertrum

    Bertrum Quan: Hi Nymf and Wol

    Wol Euler: long time no see. How have you been?

    Bertrum Quan: Fine, thanks.

    Wol Euler: what shall we talk about today?

    Bertrum Quan: I'll defer to you both.

    Wol Euler looks to Nymf.

    Nymf Hathaway: Looks back at Wol and is wispering...still think my subjects need to get fine tuned to PaB style...so I follow you :)

    Wol Euler: ah, nymf, don't worry. You are one of us, among friends.

    Wol Euler: doorbell, back in a while

    Nymf Hathaway: oke :)

    Bertrum Quan: As I arrived you both were talking about the weather changing...

    Nymf Hathaway: I was telling Wol... it will change this weekend in Holland, as I remember correctly Wol is from Germany.. next to me that is :)

    Bertrum Quan: A rain-filled weekend and a return to sunshine during the week...

    Nymf Hathaway: yes pity heh :(

    Nymf Hathaway: Could have used some sunshine :)

    Bertrum Quan: With climate change, who knows what the weather will be like in the future...

    Nymf Hathaway: yes... in Holland we grow wine these days... talking about climate change :)

    Bertrum Quan: Wine?

    Nymf Hathaway: yes..for the first tie in history :) we have always been to cold

    Nymf Hathaway: time

    Bertrum Quan: How will Holland deal with the rising sea levels?

    Nymf Hathaway: The Dutch have great water engineers

    Nymf Hathaway: as we have always been under sea level... our students searched for solutions

    Nymf Hathaway: we are even building homes on water in the future... Discovery showed it in a documentary recently

    Wol Euler: back for a while, and reading. Don't let me interrupt

    Nymf Hathaway: cities on water

    Bertrum Quan: WAs the documentary shown world-wide or only in Holland?

    Nymf Hathaway: I do not know, but the website surely will inform you about USA specials... a sec

    Wol Euler: phone, brb

    Nymf Hathaway: http://dsc.discovery.com/

    Bertrum Quan: Shown on the Discovery Channel?

    Nymf Hathaway: yes in a documentary about the raising sea level

    Nymf Hathaway: solutions for the future

    Bertrum Quan: Thanks. I'll look for it.

    Nymf Hathaway: I think countries like Bangladesh are in trouble

    Bertrum Quan: Not enough water?

    Nymf Hathaway: Untill now the sea washes the shores every year, thousands get killed... but they do not work on a solution :(

    Nymf Hathaway: and your comment adds to that :)

    Bertrum Quan: Well, talking about the weather, is really taking about change and perhaps things we can't control. And perhaps also expectations and wants.

    Bertrum Quan: It's also something to pay attention to.

    Nymf Hathaway: is Dutch and learned to respect natures wishes as the lady called the Sea... she gives and takes... but its hers to decide

    Bertrum Quan: Life then?

    Nymf Hathaway: but I do think we can make a difference... always wondered how it could be we put so much industry on the planet with all the pipes and think it would be okay

    Nymf Hathaway: we should use the knowledge we already have to make sure we work in balance with earths future

    Bertrum Quan: Balance. The natural world seems to find a balancing point... Not necessarily so with people.

    Nymf Hathaway: smiles...you think we will be ...what is the word for it... disappear from earth ?

    Nymf Hathaway: Humans

    Nymf Hathaway: Like the dinosaurs?

    Nymf Hathaway: extinct

    Nymf Hathaway: Surely possible

    Bertrum Quan: Humans do have a powerfully destructive side as well as great imagination and possibility. Life as we know will change in any eventuality. But it's hard to be too encouraged right now

    Nymf Hathaway: ah sorry language issue, I now see what you meant :)

    Nymf Hathaway: and yes I agree

    Bertrum Quan: With every creature that becomes extinct, every indiginous lanuage that dies out, for example, the world becomes that much poorer.

    Nymf Hathaway: Well yes and no, I think Bertrum, when for example an animal gets extinct... thats due to a reason... it cannot survive by the things given to him to live its life... so his capacity isn't good enough to endure the changes on earth for example

    Bertrum Quan: And yet there is so much power inside the human mind... The future cannot be controlled but it theer were a way to unite the humans on this planet through shared values there might be a chance for great things.

    Bertrum Quan: if there a way to bring the world togther with shared values of respect for each other and respect for the earth and all its creatures, so much might be accomplished!

    Nymf Hathaway: Profound, right before the bell :)

    Nymf Hathaway: I missed the thank you for ending the pause, was waiting :))

    Nymf Hathaway: sorry Bertrum :)

    Bertrum Quan: Wol, what do you think?

    Nymf Hathaway: I agree we can but...more people on higher places should be willing to cooporate for such

    Wol Euler: sorry still phone

    Wol Euler: but i agree

    Bertrum Quan: One idea of PaB for me has me thinking about the connections between all of these things...

    Nymf Hathaway: Would you like to tell us?

    Bertrum Quan: Only this: the busy work week, the tasks, the emotions and noise have a fragmenting effect. Onthe individual as well as on the society. There certainly is a need to bring things together.

    Nymf Hathaway: Smiles... I so agree on this

    Nymf Hathaway: we lost our flow with nature

    Bertrum Quan: Yes. We are encourage to have a mind/body separation. We need to re-learn our nature!

    Nymf Hathaway: I agree! :)

    Bertrum Quan: Of course, that also applies to the larger scheme of things as well-- human beings and the nature of the universe we share with each other and the diversity of other life forms.

    Nymf Hathaway: yes a symbiose

    Nymf Hathaway: sorry if thats incorrectly spelled

    Bertrum Quan: I understand what you mean... that returns us to balance.

    Nymf Hathaway: Yes it does...the centre of everything

    Bertrum Quan: Yes.

    Nymf Hathaway: Well making sure everyone on earth lives in balance is quite a challenge :)

    Nymf Hathaway: maybe that could combine our efforts for the future :)

    Bertrum Quan: And on the individual level, we also have a challenge keeping ourselves in balance!

    Bertrum Quan: So, micro and macro views...

    Nymf Hathaway: Sure... that first but there are a lot of people depending on their circumstances (by country) and aren't able because of it...as much as they want it to :(

    Nymf Hathaway: But it starts with me :) should be everyones phrase

    Bertrum Quan: That is ulimately where responsibility lies.

    Nymf Hathaway: But those who do by themselfs are depending on those who refuse....

    Bertrum Quan: I'm not sure I understand. Would you explain that?

    Nymf Hathaway: yes... if you yourself take responsibility as much as humanly possible for everything you do, say, think etc.... you still are depending on me if the world (civilization) is fair and balanced towards you...and if I refuse...

    Nymf Hathaway: as I do not...was hypothetical

    Bertrum Quan: Yes, if you were to refuse, the the results are less or nill

    Nymf Hathaway: When I decide to build the largest nucleair factory near you... I make sure I get the permits etc... you will be depending on my poor judgement

    Bertrum Quan: Or I will be hoping that you have mastered to technology as well as what to do with the waste! I will have to trust you, right?

    Nymf Hathaway: Responsibility is something different for everyone

    Nymf Hathaway: yes... but still you are depended of me...what if I do not? as the situation is at this point, because we do not have a good solution so far

    Bertrum Quan: How do you see responsibility in that instance?

    Nymf Hathaway: than your efforts...and many with you gladly...are just a fraction

    Nymf Hathaway: maybe thats my fear... that we are with less people than we need to change this situation :(

    Bertrum Quan: WHat you're saying then is responsbility in that instance is to oppose that nuclear plant--based on the facts that you cannot trust the technology.

    Nymf Hathaway: No I do not say that

    Nymf Hathaway: I trust technology...but we aren't that far that we have a solution for it

    Nymf Hathaway: I live near a factory who upgrades uranium and transports it to France by train.... right across my hometown just an example

    Nymf Hathaway: I fear these transports

    Bertrum Quan: I agree. But then the building of such a planAnd rightly so!

    Nymf Hathaway: I went their with a geigerteller once... 50 meters from the gate it went high up

    Nymf Hathaway: and cows are eating grass in that piece of land :(

    Bertrum Quan: And what does this factory (or your government) say about that?

    Nymf Hathaway: My governement is happy with the factory...the funded it, are partly owner

    Nymf Hathaway: our hometown is happy because the factory sponsers libraries, schools etc :(

    Nymf Hathaway: Money makes the world go around

    Wol Euler: back again

    Bertrum Quan: But what about the radiation?

    Nymf Hathaway: Welcome back Wol :)

    Nymf Hathaway: well they place another fence 50 meters from the other one...and another one..and so far no communication

    Nymf Hathaway: just getting more land around the parcel

    Nymf Hathaway: I investigated the situation while working for Greenpeace but it is a fully closed subject

    Bertrum Quan: If there is radiation leaking out of that plant, the how can it be a closed subject?

    Nymf Hathaway: No it isn't leaking... its radiation a geigerteller counts

    Nymf Hathaway: thats something else than leaking

    Bertrum Quan: Higher radiation levels than normal... that's a problem whether it's a leak or whatever is causing it.

    Nymf Hathaway: recently they got another task...maybe thats due to the closed subject-thing... they went working on Aerospace

    Nymf Hathaway: I agree fully with you

    Nymf Hathaway: Totally

    Nymf Hathaway: we worked hard to make it an issue and not just we...the local people striked for years

    Wol Euler: ((I'm sorry to be so absent, it's been an odd morning. I'm going to log off, please continue to talk and I will post hte log this evening.))

    Wol Euler: bye for now, take care.

    Nymf Hathaway: needs to log off as well

    Bertrum Quan: Bye, Wol

    Nymf Hathaway: Have a nice day Wol

    Nymf Hathaway: Have a good night Bertrum

    Bertrum Quan: Bye Nymf

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