2009.06.19 19:00 - Gratitude, Self, Being and Primal Spirit

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble subbing for Dakini Rhodes who was detained. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

    I sat by myself "appreciating" the view for awhile. I had sat down in a different spot than my usual spot and struck by the vuew though the trees behind me. It was when I claimed the session that gratitude first struck me:

    Adams Rubble: Wol and Fael are good friends and really diligent technicians for PaB :)

    I thought about how much various people haave done to make this group such a great place to be starting with Pema who made it all possible. The Stim for his influence on what we do here and sticking wwith us too. And then:

    Adams Rubble: How wonderful it is that Storm has dedicated so much time to building for the group
    And then to the early guardians. How many groups have their own expeert on dreams? What a warm and thoughtful person maxine is! Gen who does so much behind the scenes.dams
    Adams Rubble: wow, the list could go on and on
    Adams Rubble remembering Pia and all she did on the website with the exerpts
    Eos Amaterasu: HI Adams!
    I was lost in thought about Riddle and Caledonia and Stevenaia and sessions of theirs I had attended and not noticed Eos arrive. Eos quickly responded with a quote about gratitude.
    Adams Rubble: Hi Eos, was just sitting being grateful :)
    Adams Rubble: How are you?
    Adams Rubble: I missed you come in
    Eos Amaterasu: Good.... one of my fav William Blake quotes is "gratitude is heaven itself"
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: We have quite a bit to be grateful for in this PaB group :)
    Adams Rubble: whoops
    I missed the bell
    Eos Amaterasu: I never hear the starting bell any more; I did hear the ending one
    Adams Rubble: I have a bad habit of looking at my keyboard when I type and miss the 90 second stop
    Adams Rubble: I almost never have my sound on
    Adams Rubble: it disturbs others
    Eos Amaterasu: I like to hear the brids and other sounds "-)
    Adams Rubble: all the sounds of those birds and fountains. hehe
    Pila had seen Dakini's email and had come to the rescue
    Adams Rubble: Hi Pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Adams and Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, hi Pila!
    Adams Rubble: we are talking about being grateful
    Pila Mulligan: I also saw Dakini's emial and came to the rescue :)
    Adams Rubble: I didn't answwer fast enough (giggles)
    Pila Mulligan: looks like the situation is being covered well
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, like Jerry Garcia :)
    Pila Mulligan: (a little ireverence) -- The Grateful Dead
    Adams Rubble: How are things out in paradise?
    Pila Mulligan: nice day today, thanks
    Adams Rubble: It is nice to see you both
    Eos Amaterasu: Thnx, it's nice to be here
    Adams Rubble: we had a sunny day today between many rainy days
    Pila Mulligan: thank you, Adams, and it is nice to be here indeed, Eos
    Pila Mulligan: summer is nigh at hand
    Eos Amaterasu: We're approaching the solstice
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble: does the temperature vary much there Pila?
    Pila Mulligan: not so much, mostly the difference between summer and winter is rainfall -- but it does vary maybe 10 degrees farenheit
    Adams Rubble: wow
    Pila Mulligan: vary by season that is
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Pila Mulligan: the big variance is by elevation -- sea level and up on the montains
    Adams Rubble: that makes sense
    Talk about the weather reminds me of standing in the rain and it leads in to an experience I had in Princeton with Pema and Fefonz. Is this Being leading me here?
    Adams Rubble: I was standing on a train platform yesterday in the rain and was surprised how cold it was just about 25 feet above street level
    Eos Amaterasu: Where is this?
    Adams Rubble: nothing to block the wind
    Pila Mulligan: yes, this edge of the seaon weather can be funny sometimes
    Adams Rubble: central NJ
    Adams Rubble: I went to see Pema in Princeton yesterday
    Adams Rubble: and Fefonz too
    Adams Rubble: Had a nice lunch :)
    Adams Rubble: nice to see them
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Adams Rubble: An interesting thing happened
    Pila Mulligan: Pema must have a treasure trove of frequenet flyer miles
    Adams Rubble: Fefonz and Pema were talking about "self"
    Adams Rubble: yes Pila, quite a schedule
    Adams Rubble: and Pema suggested an exercise
    Pila Mulligan: ah, self, what a topic
    Adams Rubble: that we try to talk from Being rather than self
    Pila Mulligan: is there a distinction ?
    Adams Rubble: I was looking at Pema funny, something that we can't do too easily here
    At the time I was conscious of looking into Pema's eyes and he returning my look, maybe wondering about my funny smile
    Adams Rubble: and I was very dubious and a bit resistent
    Adams Rubble: As you noted there Pila, I thought I was talking from a higher vantage point
    Adams Rubble: but then Fefonz told some stories about acting class where they had to instantly play a role
    Adams Rubble: and gave another example which I forgot
    Adams Rubble: and I noted that I never had had an expereince like that
    Adams Rubble: and then just like that, I could see my "self" resisting Pema's exercise
    I could see a fear of not being able to do the exercise
    Adams Rubble: It was kind of humbling
    Adams Rubble: and I've been slightly unsettled since
    At that moment the sun begab to shine into the pavilion
    Adams Rubble: but here comes the light :)
    Adams Rubble: just on cue
    Eos Amaterasu: that's a great story
    Eos Amaterasu: how you caught yourself
    Adams Rubble: or got caught :)
    Pila Mulligan: did Pema elaborate upon the idea?
    Adams Rubble: Not too much, with all the discussion we really didn't get the exercise done and time was short
    Pila Mulligan: maybe he will have time to do so here eventually
    Adams Rubble nods
    Adams Rubble: He often proposes impromptu exercises and I have always resisted
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: but the situation did present you with yourself resisting, seemingly, your ability to present, just as, just as, just as, whatever comes up
    Eos Amaterasu: here comes the Sun king :-)
    Adams Rubble: yes, we'll se what happens nexxt time :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Shall we try it here?
    Adams Rubble: everyone will know now that I am a resiter :)
    Adams Rubble: uh oh
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: talk as if we are Being talking?
    Eos Amaterasu: talk as if we are self talking?
    Pila gave of the first of three quotes from eastern thinkers, Confucious, about the primal spirit
    Pila Mulligan: this statement is attributed to Confucius: "Stop listening with your ears and listen with your mind. Then stop listening with your mind and listen with your primal spirit. Hearing is limited to the ear. Mind is limited to tallying things up. But the primal spirit is empty: it's simply that which awaits things."
    Pila Mulligan: the same could be saind of speaking, as well as listneing
    Eos Amaterasu: if the gate is open, the wind speaks
    Adams Rubble: nice Pila
    Adams Rubble: my "self" has already talked of resisting
    Adams Rubble: not sure what Being would say through me. Seems Being was speaking through Pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: Being would say through anyone just what they say :)
    Pila Mulligan: Confucius was speaking thru Pila :)
    Adams Rubble: Being noticed that my self was frightened by the experiement
    Eos Amaterasu: It's not "Confucius says"....It's "Being sez"
    Adams Rubble: was Being speaaking through Confucius?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: well, it seems to me the idea of the exercise was to decrease subjectivity
    Pila Mulligan: your subjective self said uh-uh
    Pila Mulligan: or oh-oh
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: expose the self
    Eos Amaterasu: which means Being articulated your self to yourself
    Eos Amaterasu: there is moment of panic - what will I do/say
    Pila Mulligan: ultimately it becomes a very fine point to distinguish Self and Being
    Eos Amaterasu: I can't do this
    Eos Amaterasu: I'll blow it
    Eos Amaterasu: little narratives
    Eos Amaterasu: very clingy
    Eos Amaterasu: then they blow away momentarily
    Adams Rubble nods
    Eos Amaterasu: and "spirit" speacks, as Confucius said
    Pila Mulligan: the Chinese term 'primary spirit' could be called a term or art -- it is used a lot in Chinese philosophy -- it is something we connect with in the same sense as people use the term enlightenment
    Pila Mulligan: primal*
    Pila Mulligan: termof art*
    Pila Mulligan: of*
    Pila Mulligan: mucho typos
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: It is esier to speak as being when someone needs help or support
    Eos Amaterasu: then it's not so much about "you"
    Adams Rubble: yes!
    Eos Amaterasu: and spontaneity (spirit?) can aris appropriately
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Eos Amaterasu: arise*
    Eos Amaterasu: I sometimes wonder, what would there be to say?
    Adams Rubble: you man if we just decide here and now to talk as Being
    Adams Rubble: ?
    Eos Amaterasu: But things arise, and our speech is one of those
    Adams Rubble: Pila could quote Confucius, that leaves you and I, Eos :)
    Adams Rubble giggles
    Then Pila quotes Laoze. I woke up a few hours later and wrote in my blog after thiinking of becoming one with the dirt.
    Pila Mulligan: here's another view, from Lao Tse: "Simplify your problems. Mask your brightness. Be at one with the dust of the Earth. This is primal union."
    Eos Amaterasu: uh oh!
    Adams Rubble: that one needs a bit of commentary for me Pila :)
    Adams Rubble: how does one become one with the dust wothout dying?
    Pila Mulligan: oh ... it is not self-evident Adams?
    Adams Rubble: my self is thinking of dust mites :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: be at one with anything then
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Pila Mulligan: and try working up to the earth :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pila Mulligan: or down, as the case may be
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Adams Rubble: depending where one starts
    Adams Rubble: there's a metaphor in there
    Adams Rubble: if life is hell :)
    Eos Amaterasu: we're kind of presented by being anyway, though we think we're the ones presenting ourselves
    and then Lu Dongbin...
    Pila Mulligan: now here is a third take from Lu Tung-Pin: "In the midst of primal becoming, the radiance of the Light is the determining thing. In the physical world it is the sun; in man the eye."
    Eos Amaterasu: e light en meant
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pila Mulligan: so these Chinese ancients are talking about the same idea: primal becoming arises amidst the radiance of light primal union involves simplicity, modesty and being at one primal spirit is empty, it simply awaits things
    Pila Mulligan: the primal terminology may relate well to the idea of Being
    Eos Amaterasu: related to that is the 3rd (or was it the 6th?) patriarch saying "do not search for the truth - only cease to cherish opinions"
    ..and then Love
    Adams Rubble: It seems not so different from Love
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: I think love and compassion are the next step, actually, Adams
    Pila Mulligan: these being close, but a preliminary step
    Eos Amaterasu: the groove is in the heart
    Pila Mulligan: and int he end day does not come before night or vice versa
    Pila Mulligan: the Hindu phrase sat chit ananda can be said to mean bliss results from awareness of reality ...
    Pila Mulligan: so we may approach the idea of enlightenment as 'becoming aware of reality' and hopefully find bliss ...
    Pila Mulligan: ... and then what?
    Pila Mulligan: to me, love and compassion are the answer to then what
    Adams Rubble nods
    Adams Rubble: Love is a great cure all to much that ails us
    Pila Mulligan: it is perhaps the best description of primal spirit
    Eos Amaterasu: what is loving from Being?
    Pila Mulligan: yep :)
    Adams Rubble: I am afraid I am getting very sleepy
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Adams Rubble: It has been nice chatting with you both :)
    Pila Mulligan: do you want to do the log Adams, or should Eos or I do it?
    Eos Amaterasu: thnx, Adams :-)
    Adams Rubble: Yep I have it. If you want to talk more I'll get it
    Pila Mulligan: ok, sweet dreams :)
    Adams Rubble: thanks good night :)
    I leave to get some sleep and Eos and Pila continue discussing Being in connection with music
    Eos Amaterasu: That was a spectacular dress Adams had!
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Musicians sometimes "play the hall"
    Pila Mulligan: did you see Pema's going back to Japan now?
    Pila Mulligan: "play the hall" being ...?
    Eos Amaterasu: So it seems - you mean long term?
    Pila Mulligan: well, he just mentioned he is flying there soon -- seems he travels a lot :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Speaking of the Grateful Dead, they would play what was there
    Pila Mulligan: ahh
    Pila Mulligan: cool
    Eos Amaterasu: I also met a violinist who spoke of playing Chartres Cathedral
    Pila Mulligan: letting the place do the music
    Eos Amaterasu: the space has its character, including the people in it
    Pila Mulligan: I like to do that in the forest -- take a drum or a flute and play in repsonse to or with the sounds there
    Pila Mulligan: it gets quite high, naturally
    Eos Amaterasu: riding the bull playing a flute
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: birds are quite symphonic is a jazz kind of way
    Eos Amaterasu: Heidegger says, "language is the clearing of Being"
    Eos Amaterasu: language is Being opening up
    Pila Mulligan: :) cleaning would almost work there too
    Eos Amaterasu: when still, hearing a bird sound can be a great way to catch your mind leaping out
    Eos Amaterasu: or being leaped
    Pila Mulligan: Lao Tse: "The sage has no mind of his own"
    Eos Amaterasu: No matter. Never mind. :-)
    Pila Mulligan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILhXlJp2hqE
    Pila Mulligan: Jerry Garcia, Tangled Up in Blue
    Eos Amaterasu: all I knew how to do, was to keep on keeping on, like a bird that flew, tangled up in blue
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: bodhisattva electric guitar
    Pila Mulligan: Barbara Meier: I remember reading Ram Dass describe you as a bodhisattva. Jerry Garcia: He's very kind, but I don't deserve that. I'm just a guy trying to play the right notes, that's all. If I were to think of myself in a spiritual context, however, I'd think of myself as some sort of Buddhist.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: I know (knew) Barbara (she was a buddhist)
    Pila Mulligan: Barbara Meier: Well, music is your practice. When I hear you in concert, I feel you want to push the energy further and further, taking the crowd along with you. Jerry Garcia: I don't do it consciously.
    Pila Mulligan: seems like he was too :)
    Pila Mulligan: https://www.tricycle.com/jerry-garci...-barbara-meier
    Pila Mulligan: "Barbara and Jerry had this conversation in June of 1991"
    Eos Amaterasu: "To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe."
    Eos Amaterasu: - J Garcia
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: mountains and rivers
    Pila Mulligan: We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
    Eos Amaterasu: Speaking from blue
    Eos Amaterasu: Great performance :-)
    Pila Mulligan: really !
    Pila Mulligan: ah, the Revolution :0
    Eos Amaterasu: there's acting from Being
    Eos Amaterasu: I suppose there's speaking from Being
    Eos Amaterasu: there's being enacted by Being
    Pila Mulligan: and especially singing form Being
    Pila Mulligan: from
    Eos Amaterasu: a multi-billion year-old symphoney
    Pila Mulligan: the other day a nwebie at Kira was aksing if science has enough of a handle on the idea of time to determine if there is such a thing as non-time
    Pila Mulligan: interesting question
    Pila Mulligan: no one there knew :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Dogen knew :-)
    Pila Mulligan: this was for scinetists :)
    Pila Mulligan: to do him justice, here is the question as posed: [11:10] Beragon Betts: i have a question about time tho, if that will help [11:11] Beragon Betts: well.... relativity explains gravity as a distortion in the fabric of spacetime by a mass and attempts to harminze relativity with quantum mechanics tries to find a "graviton" particle or quanta of gravity so if gravity can be quantized, can time be quantized? [11:12] Beragon Betts: that is - is there a quanta of time less than which there is not time?
    Pila Mulligan: now ins't that a nice question :)
    Eos Amaterasu: there's no time to answer that question :-)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: I cna just barely grasp the question, much less imagine an answer
    Pila Mulligan: but I'd love to see some phsyicists give it a go
    Eos Amaterasu: I think awareness is starting to be discussed as being as primordial as 'space', 'time', 'energy'.... not really reducible
    Pila Mulligan: yes, isn't it fun ...to see concepts like entanglement in science
    Eos Amaterasu: http://www.twine.com/item/126fbyh1z-...e-and-religion
    Eos Amaterasu: Well, l8t, must sleep, thnx for the conversation, Pila!
    Pila Mulligan: thanks Eos, it was fun
    Pila Mulligan: sleep well
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!

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