2009.06.30 07:00 - Whole Truth, Objective View

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.  Many of the corrections are mine too.  Hard to believe I still have this keyboard with the bad "D" and space keys.

    For only a few minutes, I got to talk to the 3 animated objects.  They work around each other all the time, but do not really interact.

    Riddle Sideways: good morning, Master Listener
    Riddle Sideways: I notice that you went 'On Air' and gave me the url, thank you
    Riddle Sideways: You needed to tell fountain that I was here and it should foam over at the bell
    Riddle Sideways: We see that there are 3 separate objects with 3 separate scripts that only appear to be known to each other
    Riddle Sideways: Please to understand that as an outsider from you, it is easy for me to comment on you
    Saved by Storm's entrance.
    Riddle Sideways: Hey Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: did you hear me chatting to fountain?
    Storm Nordwind: Hehe yes
    Riddle Sideways: I knew fountain was your baby
    Riddle Sideways: and did not mean to critize it
    Storm Nordwind: It is very tolerant
    Riddle Sideways: it was where my mind was going
    Storm Nordwind: I am testing something at the same time, so my attention is partly elsewhere! :)
    Riddle Sideways: ah... I too am designing/architecting something right now
    Riddle Sideways: trouble sleeping last night and I had trouble mediatating
    Storm Nordwind: Sorry to hear that
    Riddle Sideways: need to get these mundane RL work confusions away
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Riddle Sideways: writing them down is usually the solution
    Storm Nordwind: That can certainly work
    Riddle Sideways: lying in bed for hours saying that I will write them down seems not so good
    Insert video here of Storm re-seating on 6 different pillows in about 20 seconds.
    Riddle Sideways: the way you are moving your seat... Is that an 8 queens solution?
    Storm Nordwind: haha! perhaps!
    Riddle Sideways: I have a medium large software network project going wrong in RL now
    Riddle Sideways: relating to master listener, the Bell and the fountain is helping
    Storm Nordwind: Software doesn't cook itself though! ;)
    Riddle Sideways: but seeing my situation is hard, fixing it is harder. Seeing somebody elses problems is easy
    Riddle Sideways: then slapping myself on my forehead and saying "it's just like that..."
    Riddle Sideways: works for me
    Storm Nordwind: Where is the truly objective view? Is there one?
    Riddle Sideways: I think not
    Riddle Sideways: is that part of Object Oriented
    Riddle Sideways: no
    That is about enough of that...
    Riddle Sideways: oh well, I really did want to talk with you about a different subject
    Storm Nordwind: We can, most certainly!
    Riddle Sideways: how PaB conflicts and augments your personal religious practices
    Riddle Sideways: in discussions with my RL religious friends it is too hard to tell them about these PaB meetings and practices
    Riddle Sideways: too long a description to get to a point
    Storm Nordwind: Of what religion(s) are these friends?
    Riddle Sideways: Mostly jewish
    Riddle Sideways: some christians
    Storm Nordwind: I suspect it would be an alien concept to most
    Storm Nordwind: Of course we know at least one Christian who has taken to PaB like a duck to water
    Riddle Sideways: yes,
    Storm Nordwind: But I wonder if they are the exception
    Riddle Sideways: and I think I know many who would too
    Maybe I don't 'hang' with close minded people, but it has been a really long time since I have heard anybody be anti-that_other_religion.  On the contrary, I have heard much more comparitive, cross-desciple, open and questioning dicussions lately.
    Riddle Sideways: I have been in many common-ness of all religions discussions lately
    Storm Nordwind: Ah... do you find a common-ness?
    Riddle Sideways: and am about to say something like "Adelene said that ..."
    Riddle Sideways: and they would want to know who Storm is ...
    Riddle Sideways: why a Pema would be relavant to this subject
    Riddle Sideways: oh yes, I find common ness, points, planes everywhere
    Storm Nordwind: I find very many differences. There are common human needs, perhaps, but the means are sometimes worlds apart - or so it would seem to me
    The 90 second silence brings time to contemplate Storm'swords and to let the steam/dry ice flow up to us.
    Storm Nordwind is thankful for the steam-cleaning of his trousers
    Riddle Sideways: thus the reason why there are so many paths, avenues, guide posts
    Riddle Sideways remembers that my hakama needed steaming
    Storm Nordwind: I once knew someone - a very religious person in fact - who said, "If all religious paths lead to the same goal, I for one am turning round right now!"
    Riddle Sideways: hehe
    Storm Nordwind: I have some sympathy with their view
    Riddle Sideways: here words are failing me, but I see that and yet can be other
    Riddle Sideways: in a general sence all those paths are heading to the same point that I want to go
    Storm Nordwind: And what is that point?
    Riddle Sideways: and I think I hear many others that want to go there too
    Storm Nordwind: What will you/they find there?
    reading this now, I see that I was very rude in not listening to Storm.  I plowed right ahead with some multitude of images in my head that I wanted to get out.  When one of the main answers to "what is that point" is to have seen the scenery on the way to any point and having made the journey.  I already know that the point is not the point (paraphrased off Harry Neilson).
    Riddle Sideways: yet that is my personal point
    Not everybody elses
    Riddle Sideways: today's define of that personal point
    All headed toward the same different point.  We will all arrive, but at different times, places, conditions and etc.
    Riddle Sideways: my own Personal Los Vegas (PLV) is simular, but different from yours
    Riddle Sideways: but who is to say
    Riddle Sideways: hmmmmmm, will I/they/you find what is today's thought to be there?
    Riddle Sideways: a goal or target is set to go toward
    Riddle Sideways: but not knowing what is really there
    Storm Nordwind: I know I do not want what I hear many religious people say is their goal - certainly those of Abrahamic persuasion, who make up the majority of the world
    Riddle Sideways: true for me too.
    Riddle Sideways: even they argue over what is at the goal
    Riddle Sideways: we are to join their camp to go to their goal
    Storm Nordwind: Oh sure. I'm quite certain their god would not want it any other way! It would seem to me that argument is sustenance for him. :)
    Riddle Sideways: yet the prophets, though they report/record their travels differeantly, have told us of some passages that are desirable
    Storm Nordwind: Not universally desirable
    Riddle Sideways: no not universal, that is why many do not choice the whips and chains doctrines
    Riddle Sideways: it would be so easy if we all agreed upon your path, goal and methods
    Riddle Sideways: but then you would not like the crowd that followed you
    Storm Nordwind: haha!
    Storm Nordwind: personally I am not after people agreeing with my paths etc
    Storm Nordwind: I am happy for people to choose ways for themselves
    Storm Nordwind: It would be nice to consistently encounter a reciprocal attitude, but that is way too much to expect!
    Riddle Sideways: yes, a balance of arch-enemies pushing you and loving friendly pulling you
    Storm Nordwind: People choose themselves as enemies. I do not bother choosing them for myself.
    Riddle Sideways: so say that we meet a rightious, good and seemingly (to us) a person that did it right
    Riddle Sideways: we would study how that person did what they did
    Riddle Sideways: how they got there
    Riddle Sideways: then use the lessons for ourselves
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Yakuzza
    Yakuzza joins us
    Storm Nordwind: We could never know enough about them. We would only see a snapshot, a small window onto their life, as viewing the outside world from the other side of a room
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey both of you
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Yak
    Riddle Sideways: ah, yes my point
    Storm Nordwind: It is the same with "Truth". I doubt it is ever possible to know the "whole truth"
    Riddle Sideways: we would see "Storm" and soon would be out in the rainy weather
    Riddle Sideways: if we can't know the whole truth
    Riddle Sideways: why continue after half truths?
    Storm Nordwind: People do, usually because they seek outside themselves
    Storm Nordwind: It is a human trait either to make do with a half-satisfied goal, or to convince oneself that one has what one really wanted after all, or to keep looking from place to place to find the elusive truth.
    Riddle Sideways: ah, so much in that
    Riddle Sideways: glad we shun usual human traits
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    Riddle Sideways: and my personal line between outside and inside of a me has blurred completely
    Riddle Sideways: me, you, others, inside and outside seem but a projection
    Storm Nordwind: perhaps some of us are! :)
    More then some
    Riddle Sideways: and I appreciate your presence
    Riddle Sideways: your appearance
    Storm Nordwind: Therein lie the changes that PaB has brought to my practice
    Storm Nordwind: I have had demonstrated to me what it is like to walk my path
    Storm Nordwind: So it is an encouragement and an affirmation
    Riddle Sideways: a coming to the battery charging station
    Storm Nordwind: More than that. It has shown me what is it like to drive the car properly!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for me it´s even thinking about those topics more at all, i never thought that much about meditation and ways to find to myself
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i bought a meditation cd ones before pab :P
    Yakuzza Lethecus: obviously it´s not about mediation here usually
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but at least people speak open about those topics
    Riddle Sideways: yes, the personal practices each of us do go on hourly within/without us.
    Riddle Sideways: we come here to maybe chat about it
    Riddle Sideways: common troubles and common joys
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, often i just don´t know what to type here, so i read
    Riddle Sideways: but as of now I am needing to go show some software engineers the errors of their ways
    Riddle Sideways: please stay and discuss more
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and when i join the 1pm session i even sometimes fall asleep literaly P
    Riddle Sideways: Yak, Storm is a great source
    Storm Nordwind: I spent the last five years teaching software engineers
    Storm Nordwind will have to leave now unfortunately
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, it´s ok i guess both of you are around for an hours
    Storm Nordwind: I have some furniture to extricate that is being taken away tomorrow
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you take everything with you to the states ?
    Storm Nordwind: Quite the opposite Yak
    Storm Nordwind: I am giving away most things
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, cya guys around :)
    Storm Nordwind: OK Yak!

    thank you and may your peace find you.

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