2009.10.03 07:00 - The "know-nothing" mind

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    The Guardian for this meeting was sophia Placebo. The comments are by sophia Placebo.

    Reflection a very intersting visitor ,with paul , Bertram and me had a lovely chat about nature,nurture,habits and pure conciousness.


    sophia Placebo: hello reflection
    Reflection Freenote: hi sophia
    sophia Placebo: do you belive in tabula rasa ? :P i was checking your profile
    Reflection Freenote: only as a reference for my FL;-)
    sophia Placebo: hehe
    Reflection Freenote: actually, I think genetics are very hard to cope with
    sophia Placebo: in one day
    sophia Placebo: but not hard over years me thinks ,specially if we are not talking about some disability
    Reflection Freenote: well almost anything *is* possible
    Reflection Freenote: but most people are imprisoned, I think, never to be released
    sophia Placebo: inprisoned by what ?
    Reflection Freenote: by their given natures
    sophia Placebo: how much would creativity help in this situation ?
    Reflection Freenote: creativity is an absolute solution:))
    Reflection Freenote: hello paul
    sophia Placebo: :)
    sophia Placebo: hello paul
    Paul Namiboo: Hello folks :)
    sophia Placebo: so why many poeple are stil imprisioned ?
    Reflection Freenote: because creativity is rare
    Paul Namiboo: Our school systems tend to kill it
    Reflection Freenote: the machine of civilization is suspicious of creativity, unless it comes from the sanctioned sources
    Reflection Freenote: hello bertram
    sophia Placebo: hi bert
    Bertram Jacobus: hello everybody :-)
    Paul Namiboo: Heelo Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: quite quiet meeting today ? ;-)
    sophia Placebo: what sanctioned source ?
    Bertram Jacobus: ?
    Reflection Freenote: there are many of those. universities, institutions tied to governments, religions
    Bertram Jacobus: ty sophia for having me updated with the chatlog :-)
    sophia Placebo: yw :)
    Reflection Freenote: this is my first time here
    Reflection Freenote: my friend Yaku broght me
    Bertram Jacobus: nice ... :-)
    sophia Placebo: oh ? i think we met befor in some other sim then ?
    Paul Namiboo: It's a wonderful place to sit quietly and have an interesting conversation
    Reflection Freenote: yes, I'm sure so
    Reflection Freenote: UU maybe?
    sophia Placebo: sorry about that , so i have to ask you if it is ok to include your name in the recorded chat that we publish in our wiki ?
    Reflection Freenote: I think it is a very creative idea to have recurrent meetings through the day
    Reflection Freenote: sure, np
    sophia Placebo: thanks
    sophia Placebo: yes it is ! :)
    sophia Placebo: UU ? hmm thothica that is ?
    Reflection Freenote: oh, thothica then
    Bertram Jacobus: a question regarding to the beginning of your talk : what exactly does tabula rasa mean here and how can one believe in it ?
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Reflection Freenote: UU is the Unitarian Universalist church in SL
    sophia Placebo: i have never been there ^^
    Paul Namiboo: Neither have I
    Reflection Freenote: it refers to my profile bert, and is merely a reference there to my FL, which is a blank slate to SL;-)
    Reflection Freenote: UU is a great place:))
    sophia Placebo: Tabula rasa (Latin: blank slate) refers to the epistemological thesis that individuals are born without built-in mental content and that their knowledge comes from experience and perception. Generally proponents of the tabula rasa thesis favor the "nurture" side of the nature versus nurture debate, when it comes to aspects of one's personality, social and emotional behavior and intelligence. wiki
    Reflection Freenote: a very attractive sim, and only nice people:)) (well the occasional griefer excepted)
    Bertram Jacobus: i saw it in your profile. yes reflection. and as a reference to fl in sl i understand that now. ty :-)
    Reflection Freenote: yes, indeed sophia, although as we mentioned earlier, I am the opposite of a proponent of the epistemological thesis attached to the term;-)
    Reflection Freenote: I tend to believe that we are all mostly robots (well cyborgs, actually) ;-)
    Paul Namiboo: As a geneticist I tend toward the nrutrue hypothesis -- much of what is assigned by people as DNA-based is probably in-womb experience
    Paul Namiboo: nurture
    Reflection Freenote: I wouldn't consider inutero environment to really qualify as nurture practically speaking
    Bertram Jacobus: strange : isn´t it both ? genetics AND experiences ? for me that´s obvious ...
    Reflection Freenote: as a psychologist I have enormous respect for the recalcitrance of simple biology
    Paul Namiboo: that's perfectly true -- you nomrally can't separate them any more than you can say whether length or width contributes more to the area of a triangle
    Paul Namiboo: rectangle -- I am tired
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Paul Namiboo: Sob. RL calls. Been nice and relaxing talking to you you guys. Thanks. Bye
    Reflection Freenote: of course, I agree about the nteraction, although people tend to see themselves as free agents, and that is simple illusion
    Reflection Freenote: so long paul
    sophia Placebo: bye paul nice to have with us !
    sophia Placebo: agree re free agent is an illusion
    Bertram Jacobus: but the pure conciousness seems to be free reflections, don´t you also think so ?
    Bertram Jacobus: and sophia :-)
    sophia Placebo: if pure enough
    Reflection Freenote: well, I think we have the capacity to seek consciousness, if that is what you mean Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: no. i did not mean that. i wanted to point that there is something which seems to be free.
    Reflection Freenote: I think I am only free when I do something "freely" that I don't want to do
    Bertram Jacobus: i did not refere to the will ...
    sophia Placebo: free from what and for what ? do we have it already or we should gain it ?
    Bertram Jacobus: will seems not to be free. there i agree ;-)
    Reflection Freenote: so bertram are you referring to variability and "randomness" then?
    Bertram Jacobus: free from all to be free sophia. and if the pure conciousness is so, we may have it already, yes
    Reflection Freenote: by pure consciousness, what do you mean bert?
    Bertram Jacobus: no again reflections. i only wanted to mention the pure conciousness as a may be free aspect in life. but variability and randomness are very interesting topics, for sure - and
    Bertram Jacobus: i mean pure conciousness a conciousness free from all contens as thoughts, feelings, perceptions. a often used picture for that is a mirror. another one space
    Reflection Freenote: yes, the "know-nothing" mind
    Reflection Freenote: paradoxically such pure awareness tends to be attained only with rigorous practice an self-discipline
    Bertram Jacobus: (contents*)
    Bertram Jacobus: i think that is because of the very stong habits
    Reflection Freenote: and it is the freedom of being compelled, or controlled externally, and so is the freedom to simply "be"
    Reflection Freenote: freedom of *not* being compelled, that is
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. to be is another aspect which i also had in mind in relation to freedom ... :-)
    Reflection Freenote: and yes, habits, built, layer upon layer upon genetic and biological givens, I think
    sophia Placebo nods
    sophia Placebo: and habits is somewhere oppsite to creativity ? or somewhere along side with self decipline ?
    Reflection Freenote: I think habits can be conduscive to creativity, but mostly are not
    Reflection Freenote: so, I can have habits which help to induce awareness, like meditative skills for example
    sophia Placebo: true
    Reflection Freenote: but mostly our habits are compulsions responding reflexively to illusory "necessities", I believe
    sophia Placebo nods
    Reflection Freenote: but even good habits can be a trap. There is a saying, "if you meet the buddha on the road, slay him"
    sophia Placebo: :)
    sophia Placebo: habits , the good one is a method to reach some goal
    Reflection Freenote: yes
    Reflection Freenote: an accurate goal
    sophia Placebo: not a gaol in themselves , but if we take them as a goal they would be trap
    Reflection Freenote: yes:)) I think so
    Reflection Freenote: we idolize our own habits, I think. We identify with them.
    Reflection Freenote: We think of them often, as "us"
    sophia Placebo: tradition and such
    Reflection Freenote: I am the kind of a person that does "this or that" and so reduce myself from an infinite potential to a commodity to be bought and sold
    sophia Placebo: no half solutions guy ? :)
    Reflection Freenote: oh, I am mostly very pragmatic (but this is a world of mind);-)
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Reflection Freenote: thank you for a pleasant conversation:)), not that I have any very specific thoughts about things;-)
    sophia Placebo: :) thank you ! its been lovely to have you here today
    sophia Placebo: please come again :)
    Reflection Freenote: I will, thanks sophia:))
    Reflection Freenote: so long bert
    Bertram Jacobus: cu reflections ! :-)
    sophia Placebo: bye reflection
    Bertram Jacobus: - s
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