2009.10.03 13:00 - Relaxing ideas

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey doug :)
doug Sosa: hi.
doug Sosa: nice to just sit. carried a cord of wood this morning.
Yakuzza Lethecus: huhu sophia
doug Sosa: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: how are you today??
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Riddle, Hi Bolonath
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello riddle and bolo
Bolonath Crystal: namaste :)
doug Sosa: :)
Bolonath Crystal: any new insights so far?
Riddle Sideways: Hi all
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wester
Bolonath Crystal: hello riddle
Bolonath Crystal: hi wester
SophiaSharon Larnia: no insights so far, but relaxing the ones I've had thus far ;p
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zen
Wester Kiranov: hi zen
Bolonath Crystal: namaste zen
Wester Kiranov: that sounds good sophia ;-)
Zen Arado: Hi Sophia, Wester, Doug, Riddle, Yakuzza
doug Sosa: :)
Zen Arado: Bolonath
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff so to speak
SophiaSharon Larnia: so trying to not even think of that
SophiaSharon Larnia: brbr
Yakuzza Lethecus: is anyone doing mindfullness practice based on an audio cd or podcast as tutorial ?
Zen Arado: no but I have done so
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Wester its hard to let go of things that you at one time thought were so important
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just started listening to krabat zinn´s mindfullness for beginners
Zen Arado: yes thats who I used
SophiaSharon Larnia: no but i listen to some podcasts Yakuzza (I think thats what they are called)
doug Sosa: oops, being called..
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, take care doug
Zen Arado: bye Doug
SophiaSharon Larnia: is it online and available Yakuzza or do you have buy it?
Yakuzza Lethecus: buy
Zen Arado: I foind it useful
Zen Arado: not sure about Bodyscan meditation though
Zen Arado: though it plays a big part in MBSR program
Wester Kiranov: MBSR?
Zen Arado: mindfulness based stress reduction
Wester Kiranov: ah
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i am curious about htat
Yakuzza Lethecus: he mentioned that once in the first cd
Zen Arado: Kabat Zinn has been running an 8 week program based on mindfulness to help pl with depression etc fro nearly 30 years
Zen Arado: started in a hospital in Boston
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: generally, mindfulness has helped me feel less depressed, but I do it my own way
Zen Arado: you can do courses in it, even a masters degree
Zen Arado: it is becoming popular with psychotherapists
Zen Arado: even where I live in N.Ireland
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i heard that it can happen that if you need healthcare in the british healthcaresystem that you might end up in kind of a lottery depending on where you live ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: really?
Zen Arado: ah but it just means that different parts of the country have different types of provision for different illnesses
Zen Arado: hence the term 'postcode lottery'
Zen Arado: you might get better cancer treatment in one county than another
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey mick
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats so strange to me, ill look that up when i go to work tonight ;)
Zen Arado: Hi Mick
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Mickorod
Bolonath Crystal: namaste mick
Wester Kiranov: hi mickey
Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone ;)
SophiaSharon Larnia: do people move to a different county to get better treatment?
Zen Arado: can happen I think
SophiaSharon Larnia: or do you have to be a resident for a period of time
Mickorod Renard: treatmet? medical do u mean?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Mickorod Renard: I see
Zen Arado: Scotland provides better healthcare for some illnesses I hear
Zen Arado: don't think it varies all that much
Mickorod Renard: I lived in france for 8 years, they looked after me well
Bolonath Crystal: sorry, i have to leave. good bye
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Wester Kiranov: bye
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bolonath
Mickorod Renard: bye Bol
Zen Arado: Scotland pays student fees too I think
Zen Arado: bye Bolonath
Riddle Sideways: very sorry, I have to leave too
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Riddle
Zen Arado: bye Riddle
Mickorod Renard: bye Riddle
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye riddle
Mickorod Renard: I wonder who pays for it all for scotland
Zen Arado: re: meditation - in Zen they don't encourage meditation to achieve anything
Yakuzza Lethecus: you have everything already ?
Zen Arado: the British govt I think :)
Mickorod Renard: yea
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats hard, i had seen it as a king of ladder
SophiaSharon Larnia: kind of*
Yakuzza Lethecus: and it´s about to become aware of what you already have, that ur always more complete then defective as long as ur breathing ?
Wester Kiranov: i think most kinds of buddhism discourage clinging to your achievements
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Yakuzza Lethecus: i mean kabat zinn was talking in that way :)
Zen Arado: yes I think he does say that
SophiaSharon Larnia: like i was 'going' somewhere
Zen Arado: there was a good article about that in Tricycle
SophiaSharon Larnia: tricycle?
Wester Kiranov: well that's what's tricycle is supposed to do ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehehe
Wester Kiranov: buddhist magazine
Mickorod Renard: I always find it a dilemna..wondering how to feel good about myself without being selfish or egotistical,
Zen Arado: http://www.tricycle.com/columns/cush...nced-meditator
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have been thinking lately of the egotistical part of buddhism, but havent thought it out well enough to say here yet, and have been hesitant to bring up buddhist things here
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks Zen
Mickorod Renard: yes, ty Zen
SophiaSharon Larnia: an oxymoron sounding thing at first
SophiaSharon Larnia: for instance, in a mandala, you take the place of the diety in the middle

 --BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: or in prostrations, you are prostrating to the buddha nature in yourself
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Qt
Zen Arado: he says meditation is the opposite to 'repairing, adjusting and striving and perpetually wanting tings to be different'
Mickorod Renard: interesting link, i will have to read it in full later
Mickorod Renard: hi Qt
Qt Core: hi all
Wester Kiranov: I think that as you go on, the distinction between things you do for yourself and things you do for others starts to dissolve
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Wester
Mickorod Renard: yes
Zen Arado: yes
Mickorod Renard: to some degree, i find I am more useful to the world if I am happy and content in my own life
Zen Arado: theres a good article on that too :) http://www.tricycle.com/blog/?p=1554
Mickorod Renard: so I have to attend to my own well being as a favor to anyone around me
Zen Arado: "The Buddha said at one point that if we truly loved ourselves we would never harm another, because if we harm another it is in some way diminishing who we are; it is taking away from rather than adding to our lives."
Wester Kiranov: but you can also attend to others well-being as a favor to yourself :-)
Mickorod Renard: yes, and I have seen by not loving myself as I should, I am harming others too
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive been approaching this from a more 'being' focus, trying not ascribing names and such to it
Zen Arado: it is all so easy to say though ...sigh
SophiaSharon Larnia: different words to say the same thing, kind of thing
Wester Kiranov: too easy to say, yes
Zen Arado: yes the practice is difficult though
Mickorod Renard: its a conundrum..(puzzle) and I am almost coming to the point that I am better to be selfish, providing its well meant and relatively ethical
SophiaSharon Larnia: but really, i would cheerfully help someone else all day, but when it comes to myself i get tired
Zen Arado: you have to be generous to yourself too
Zen Arado: why not?
Zen Arado: but spread it to others
Mickorod Renard: happiness is contagious,,so its said,,so by being happy is a good start
Zen Arado: yes
Wester Kiranov: but we know so little about what really makes us happy
Mickorod Renard: I have had some experience of happy
Zen Arado: it's more about discovering what makes us unhappy I think
Mickorod Renard: most of which I cannot repeathere
Wester Kiranov: ;-P
Zen Arado: when we listen to and believe our thoughts
Mickorod Renard: Zen..wake up
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Zen Arado: "It isn't the things that are happening to us that cause us to suffer, it's what we say to ourselves about the things that are happening. That's where the suffering comes from. " Pema Chodron
Zen Arado: I know :)
Mickorod Renard: yes, I think that is true a big percentage of the time
Zen Arado: we create our own unhappiness most of the time
Mickorod Renard: I have been making observations on someone close to me recently
Zen Arado: listens
Mickorod Renard: and have been supprised how negative they are on most issues
Mickorod Renard: yet on the same issues I am positive
Zen Arado: it's good to turn that back on yourself too
Mickorod Renard: yes
Zen Arado: we often project our own faults on others
Mickorod Renard: the glass is half full still..or the glass is half empty
Zen Arado: though I'm sure I don't :)
Wester Kiranov: sorry, have to leave. thank you all for the conversation. bye.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Bye Wester
Mickorod Renard: bye Wester
Zen Arado: bye Wester
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye wester

--BELL--

 Wester Kiranov: namaste
Qt Core: bye wester
Mickorod Renard: just as an example
Mickorod Renard: I have just this second seen another
Yakuzza Lethecus sneaks away
Mickorod Renard: the person I was talking about was complaining that we have had 3 charity bags through the door in one week
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go too, get ready for work, bye all!
Mickorod Renard: bye Yaku
Mickorod Renard: bye Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: waves
Zen Arado: bye Sophia
Qt Core: bye sophia
Zen Arado: bye Yakuzza
Mickorod Renard: lots of things that could be taken as annoying are really nothing
Zen Arado: yes they are just things that happen
Zen Arado: we are attached to the idea that they should happen in a way that is pleasing to us
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Mary
Zen Arado: Hi Mary
Mary Korpov: hi
Mickorod Renard: but sometimes I get the lovely momment of observing at a distance,,and seeing things as amazing fun happenings
Mickorod Renard: and not annoying at all
Zen Arado: perhaps enlightenment is seing things that way all the time
Mickorod Renard: maybe
Mary Korpov: enlightenment is not worrying about enlightenment
Zen Arado: yes:)
Mickorod Renard: I like to make up pretend stories to myself about how strange things in a magical world make things happen
Zen Arado: I just daydream :)
Mickorod Renard: it puts a whole new light on things
Mary Korpov: So you create illusions about the world
Mickorod Renard: similar I guess
Zen Arado: think we all do
Mary Korpov: Of course we do, that is what existence is--illusion
Mary Korpov: You illusions seem to try to deflate that point by creating illusions about illusions
Mickorod Renard: I was meaning as an alternative to seeing things in a negative way
Zen Arado: we can't grasp reality anyway
Mickorod Renard: are you familiar with rupert bear
Zen Arado: if you define it it's gone
Mary Korpov: Why see things in either a negative or positive way. they just are
Mary Korpov: Is he relatd to Yogi?
Mickorod Renard: maybe a distant cousin
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: they go to oicnics together ?
Zen Arado: picnics
Mickorod Renard: but in his stories, when things go wrong,,its down to the imps or something silly
Zen Arado: same for us :)
Mary Korpov: But things don't go wrong
Zen Arado: cruel fate
Mickorod Renard: thats right,,they are just adventures
Mary Korpov: No, they just are
Zen Arado: we just put that construction on events
Zen Arado: was reading Shunryu Suzuki today
Mary Korpov: charlotan
Zen Arado: he says if good and bad don't exist
Zen Arado: whay do you say that Mary?
Mary Korpov: Because he is one
Mickorod Renard: maybe he just is..he he
Mary Korpov: indeed
Mickorod Renard: I dont know of him
Mary Korpov: He's been fashionable among pop-zen types for a long time
Mary Korpov: Alan Watts too
Zen Arado: hmmm think he was more than that
Mickorod Renard: I will stick to rupert bear
Mary Korpov: I'll stick to Yogi

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: I would like to reveal at this oportune time that I actually have a yogi bear anual
Mickorod Renard: oops
Mary Korpov: Yogi bear is god
Mickorod Renard: Boo BOO a deciple
Zen Arado: I better go - thanks for conversation
Mary Korpov: Ranger Smith is Judas
Mickorod Renard: bye Zen
Qt Core: bye Zen
Mary Korpov: Did we run you off Zen?
Zen Arado: bye
Mary Korpov: Guess we did.
Mickorod Renard: yea,,we are taking this sesion to new depths
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: or on the positive side,,new hights
Mary Korpov: New depths of meaning. Zen is about humor. Yogi bear is the master of zen.
Mary Korpov: Life is a picinic basket.
Mickorod Renard: yummy
Mary Korpov: If you can't get that point, you will never get zen.
Mickorod Renard: its funny, i was having a similar discussion lastnight
Mickorod Renard: and I said,,in the end all everyone wants is to be fed
Mary Korpov: A lot of people who are into zen (and other "deep" stuff) seem to not understnad that it isn't so serious
Mary Korpov: That's right. He just lives and has fun getting food
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: everything else is just a complication
Mary Korpov: If someone had to know my zen idol, Yogi would be right up there. So would Bugs Bunny
Mickorod Renard: Qt, you are quiet?
Mary Korpov: I've come here several times now and this place seems decidedly slanted toward the heavy BEING side and nowhere near enough to the play side
Qt Core: yes
Mary Korpov: He's bored
Mickorod Renard: well, sometimes it gets playful
Qt Core: no, mary
Mary Korpov: yes, Qt
Mickorod Renard: are you off to any more far off lands Qt?
Mickorod Renard: ohh,,and has the weather in sicily calmed down?
Qt Core: wondering about the zen quality of the Beeo Beep
Mary Korpov: what far off lands does Qt go to? I hope Qatar is one of them
Mary Korpov: Beeo Beep?
Qt Core: i thBeep Beep, the roadrunner
Mickorod Renard: ohh yes
Mary Korpov: Ah, I see.
Qt Core: i think, mick, i haven't followed any news today
Mickorod Renard: he's a going character
Mary Korpov: But hard to follow
Mickorod Renard: I have seen several times the bad flooding in Italy
Mickorod Renard: several years
Mary Korpov: too much pasta sauce?
Mickorod Renard: is this a new phenonena?
Qt Core: yes, this is the worst in decades, but we have some pretty problem about not attending at our own land
Mickorod Renard: yea,,blocking the drains
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Mickorod Renard: I saw changes in that way in France..due to floods
Qt Core: and building buildings where and how we should not
Mickorod Renard: they had to clear all the ditches out every year
Mickorod Renard: between the vineyards
Mickorod Renard: yes,,same here in uk,,building on flood plains
Mary Korpov: Well, I must go. Work awaits.
Mickorod Renard: are you from quatar?
Mary Korpov: Nice chatting with you boys
Mary Korpov: Me?
Mickorod Renard: ohh,,bye mary
Qt Core: bye, have a nice day mary
Mickorod Renard: yea,,say hi to yogi
Mary Korpov: No, I'm from the US, but with a name like Qt, it seemed that Quatar would be a good place to go.
Mary Korpov: Ill give yogi a hug
Mickorod Renard: a haaaaa
Mary Korpov: A bit slow on the uptake there, Mick
Mickorod Renard: c u soon
Mary Korpov: Cheers
Mickorod Renard: yea,,getting late here
Mickorod Renard: he he

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: well Qt,,I had better get doing stuff
Mickorod Renard: although I hate to leave u alone
Qt Core: ok, have fun doing sttuff ;-)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: see u tommorow
Qt Core: i'll go searching something else to waste my time with ;-)
Mickorod Renard: lol,,have you too much time?
Mickorod Renard: I guess I am without much to do really
Qt Core: yeah, sure ;-)
Mickorod Renard: I would have liked to have gone out to the pub tonite
Mickorod Renard: but everyone wanted to watch television
Mickorod Renard: except me
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: ok bye
Qt Core: bye