2009.10.07 07:00 - Exploring What You Already Have

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who arrived to Yakuzza present. We chatted for a few minutes about a mutual explorations, then were joined by Genesis, Sophia, and Mary.

I thought this session had many hidden treasures, especially toward the end where Yakuzza describes his outlook and approach to what he has been learning.

Yakuzza Lethecus: hiliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza!
Eliza Madrigal: How are you today?
Yakuzza Lethecus: fine, trying to relax :)
Eliza Madrigal: ::::breathe::::
Yakuzza Lethecus: hope you didn´t had a rough start in the day
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, no... Not at all. Thanks :)
Eliza Madrigal: Your day has been hectic?
Yakuzza Lethecus: no, it was a regular day
Eliza Madrigal: :)... its just another day... la la la
Yakuzza Lethecus: nothing unexpected happened so far
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I woke up with a funny way of looking at things this morning....
Eliza Madrigal: I've been rather studious re 'spiritual' things for a while now... and mostly the changes I've seen have been internal....
Eliza Madrigal: with a few changes here and there that I'd classify as 'outer'...
Eliza Madrigal: but this morning I woke up as though I'd been given a new assignment "Awakening Phase II"
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Eliza Madrigal: I have no idea what that means, but there is a light and happy feeling about it
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t cathegorize changes
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i think they happen and i still try to understand how and where to go :)
Eliza Madrigal nods...yes I probably have too much fun with patterns sometimes

Naturalness/Authenticity

Eliza Madrigal: Have you thought about our WoK topic this week?
Yakuzza Lethecus: thought yes, constructive things no
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: It seems to be a wide-open topic ... "Naturalness"
Eliza Madrigal: especially as the last few weeks there have been so much natural turbulence...earthquakes, floods, etc
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i still need clearification on that term :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: for example i noticed me using naturalness even in the relation to other people
Yakuzza Lethecus: where do i behave natural, and when does my naturalness change because i might care to much about other ppl percieving me
Yakuzza Lethecus: and therefore loosing my naturalness even unintentionally
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh, yes... authenticity
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have a problem with authenticity since the change is not even intentional but habitual
Eliza Madrigal: Different people bring up different aspects of one's personality too, I think... so it isn't always easy to see why/how one changes
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, we play roles for many reasons... some for ourselves and our own comfort maybe, but some for others
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello mary
Mary Korpov: hi
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gen
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Genesis :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mary
Mary Korpov: hi
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza and I were talking about naturalness/authenticity
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Yak , ELiza, and Mary
Eliza Madrigal: a little... but does anyone have a pressing topic?
genesis Zhangsun: sounds like a great topic

Caring what others think...

Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s interesting for example when i first joined kira i didn´t care about how people saw me, but since i am around these places every day it matters more and i just loose the ,,just exploring feeling
Mary Korpov: When you say you don't care about how people see you, do you mean in SL, RL or both?
Mary Korpov: that should be "didn't care..."
Eliza Madrigal: That makes sense. At first there is strong anonymity, but after a while one gets to know people even in a context like this one :)
Mary Korpov: I don't feel as though I can ever be close to anyone in SL
Yakuzza Lethecus: only second life when i know nobody, in the exploring context, so often i just participated in events and i was more relaxed nobody knowing me
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s kinda irrational
Mary Korpov: Inr RL do/did you care about what others think of you?
Yakuzza Lethecus: even too much
Mary Korpov: I don't in either SL or RL
Yakuzza Lethecus: i would not even been at any place people talking about buddism intentionally
Yakuzza Lethecus: and here it just happeded by accident :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: sure this place is not about buddism, but many people are much into that topic around here
Mary Korpov: in a sort of pop-Buddhism way, it seems to me at times
Mary Korpov: I've never thought of Buddhism as something one is "in to"
Eliza Madrigal: Well it is a framework
Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i didn´t mean only buddism i mean a place like this but there are people around here pretty competent in buddism
Yakuzza Lethecus looks to genesis
Mary Korpov: That's an interesting idea, "competent in Buddhism" I
Mary Korpov: I'm not sure what that implies
Eliza Madrigal: :) Well versed
Mary Korpov: Well versed in the texts? Or experienced in practice?
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sophia
Mary Korpov: And, we treat "Buddhism" as though it is a monolithic thing, but it is very different in different places
genesis Zhangsun: Mary has anyone introduced you to our community?
sophia Placebo: hi yak all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia! :)
Mary Korpov: yes
genesis Zhangsun: Given you a notecard about our practices, etx?
genesis Zhangsun: great, well what we do is not Buddhism per se
Mary Korpov: I know
Mary Korpov: But Yakuzza raised Buddhism
genesis Zhangsun: however many of the people who become involved in our community are Buddhists and have their own practice
Mary Korpov: As a talking point, I thought
Mary Korpov: I am a Buddhist
genesis Zhangsun: wonderful! and have you considered trying the Play as Being explorations? or do you have your own practice?
Mary Korpov: Being a Buddhist is niether wonderful nor not wonderful, it just is. I practice constantly
Yakuzza Lethecus: How good does the explaination a place for mindfullness and general chat fit this place ?
genesis Zhangsun: well wonderful in the sense of "thanks for sharing that with us"
Eliza Madrigal: That's nice, yakuzza
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: I think what makes PaB special also though, is that we have group explorations too... that though there are many people of various traditions...
Eliza Madrigal: we join hands and explore together
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Sophia!
genesis Zhangsun: sorry I missed you sitting there
sophia Placebo: :) hi
Eliza Madrigal: Sophia you look so pretty today
Eliza Madrigal: (Sophia is a shapeshifter extraordinaire..hehe)
sophia Placebo: so you do eliza ! love yellow
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
sophia Placebo: and gen hair too look pretty
genesis Zhangsun: :) thanks
genesis Zhangsun: you too sophia!
sophia Placebo: what was the topic ?
Eliza Madrigal: Sophia we started off talking about what is natural/authenticity... then the focus of PaB

Describing Play as Being

sophia Placebo: ok
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, there is my mind right now, i still don´t know how to describe play as being exactly but it raised many interests for me
Mary Korpov: Why isn't it reversed? Being as Play?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that's nice Mary! Actually sure it is...
Eliza Madrigal: the phrases can be played with
Mary Korpov: "REality" is just a shell game we invent with our minds
Yakuzza Lethecus: i could imagine that we might should play as the being or practice to be the being that we are but lost somehow ?
sophia Placebo: so we can turn water to wine with our minds ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh my gosh :)
Eliza Madrigal: What I often think is that we gather together to share notes and a few explorations... and in that process...as we bring our interests and energies to the pool....
Eliza Madrigal: we sometimes fall into Being together
Eliza Madrigal: and so there is this feeling of losing ourselves in the play
Eliza Madrigal: but it is losing ourselves into greater awakeness... rather than visa versa.
sophia Placebo: i am not sure how to describe play as being yet
Eliza Madrigal: Funny to describe
sophia Placebo: yes
Mary Korpov: Perhaps that's the problem. Don't try--it can't be described and to describe it is to limit it
sophia Placebo: :)
sophia Placebo: can we work without limits ?
Mary Korpov: why work?
sophia Placebo: why not ?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mary Korpov: none of this matters
Yakuzza Lethecus: don´t work, just be :)
sophia Placebo: just be rock ?
Mary Korpov: no, just be
genesis Zhangsun: or celebrate, which can include the use of language
genesis Zhangsun: :)
genesis Zhangsun: language is part of the play
Mary Korpov: Don't celebrate, just be
--BELL--
sophia Placebo: so ia dance
sophia Placebo: why work isnt part of be ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
sophia Placebo: haha
Eliza Madrigal giggles @ Ya
Yakuzza Lethecus: nobody wears it
genesis Zhangsun: hehe
genesis Zhangsun: I didn't get one
Yakuzza Lethecus: so in that case you can´t dance sophia :P
genesis Zhangsun: being can include of course celebration and dance
genesis Zhangsun: being is a dance
sophia Placebo: onigokko is a dance ?
genesis Zhangsun: being is a celebration

Mary's view of what the message of Buddhism and 'just be' is...

Mary Korpov: What I meant is don't differentialt. Work/play/sadness/happiness/celebration/despair/ Just be
Mary Korpov: I don't thin being is celebration. It is suffering
sophia Placebo: be indeffrent ?
Mary Korpov: yes
sophia Placebo: why?
Mary Korpov: because none of this matters
sophia Placebo: it dosnt matter if your child is autistic and never smile nor say i love you momy
Mary Korpov: This is the message of Buddhism. Do I entirely agree? No. But there is a point to it.
Eliza Madrigal: Well the message is that when we don't expect to escape suffering, we can begin to live, rather than trying to escape
Eliza Madrigal: or part of it anyway
Mary Korpov: The Buddhist response would be that the autistic child just is. I have difficulties living that way. I love my children.
Mary Korpov: And I enjoy receiving their love. But that is a form of clinging
sophia Placebo: and hitler too?
Mary Korpov: Hitler just is
Mary Korpov: The first lesson of Buddhism is that the world is suffering; so Hitler fits right in, actually
genesis Zhangsun: sounds like poison to combat poison in a way as you describe it Mary suffering to combat suffering
Mary Korpov: Not at all. The end to suffering is detachment
genesis Zhangsun: what form of Buddhism do you practice to be more specific?
Mary Korpov: zen
sophia Placebo: that an easy world to live in , just be
genesis Zhangsun: well some might disagree that detachment is really the cure to attachment
Mary Korpov: But these ideas go back to Shakyamuni
Eliza Madrigal does not think of detachment as cold distance... but rather as peace within connection
Mary Korpov: people disagree to a lot of things
genesis Zhangsun: what form of zen exactly?
Mary Korpov: rinzai
Mary Korpov: But that doesn't really matter. Sects are also forms of clinging

Ecumenical Sangha

Eliza Madrigal: Mary, what do you feel draws you to Play as Being?
Mary Korpov: No idea
genesis Zhangsun: I agree Mary, our approach is quite ecumenical
genesis Zhangsun: thats a great question Eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus whispers *these are the moments i like to be on pab, this is when i learn something new or get something i can elaborate on further*
Eliza Madrigal: :)
genesis Zhangsun: as you know Mary, community is an important supplement to dharma and practice
genesis Zhangsun: this is what we provide for each other this community component
genesis Zhangsun: a sort of virtual sangha without being purely "buddhist" or "christian" or of any particular religion
genesis Zhangsun: encouraging one another to explore
genesis Zhangsun: and some people just come for the good conversation of course :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: Well and starting from Being means that it isn't about a particular tradition....
Eliza Madrigal: though all traditions have something to offer
Mary Korpov: they do?
Eliza Madrigal: I don't see Mary the Buddhist... or at least that's not the intention
Mary Korpov: But it doesn't matter to me if you see Mary the Buddhist or anything else
Eliza Madrigal: yes I know this :)
genesis Zhangsun: what matters to u Mary?
--BELL--
Mary Korpov: That is personal
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, the ,,to offer issue", i also thought in the past that things like buddism would offer some exciting experiences, but as more a s i listen to conversations here or some bodcasts it´s really just to be as it seems, it´s exploring what you already have, and the irrational believe of ,,wanting to know something cool and fancy is preventing you from exactly that
Mary Korpov: right. No exciting experiences
genesis Zhangsun: nicely put Yak
Mary Korpov: isness
Yakuzza Lethecus sneaks out, bye!
Eliza Madrigal: Bye yakuzza :)
Eliza Madrigal: it isn't natural to feel 'nothing' either, imo... think accepting that life is suffering brings with it a certain sensitivity
Eliza Madrigal: but surely everyone finds their own balace :)
Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, I should get moving along also...
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Gen and Mary :)
Mary Korpov: bye
genesis Zhangsun: sorry I missed you Eliza!
genesis Zhangsun: I have to go too
genesis Zhangsun: nice to talk to you Mary and Yak

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