2009.10.11 13:00 - Tended or natural garden?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

      The main themes of this session were continuations of the discussion begun in the morning 8am SL guardian session, but especially how more sharings of PaB experiences, questions, concerns might occur at these and other discussions. Reminding ourselves of the current transitions, we might sense interest and attention toward how much structure vs organic growth  may be optimal. I have edited some of the introductions and side comments to allow focus on the major discussion points. 

    Maxine Walden: hi, Yaku
    Pema Pera: Hi Yaku and Maxine
    Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
    Maxine Walden: seems like we just recently saw each other; actually was so!
    Maxine Walden: good meeting, I thougt
    Pema Pera: yes, a full day, Sundays, from now on!
    Maxine Walden: yes, very full!
    Pema Pera: yes, indeed
    Pema Pera: (to your previous remark :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi pila :)
    Pema Pera: Hi there Pila!
    Pila Mulligan: greetings
    Maxine Walden: I had hoped we might continue some of the discussion from the guardian meeting this morning
    Maxine Walden: hi, Pila
    Pema Pera: sure!
    Pila Mulligan: sure also
    Maxine Walden: we were just mentioning the fullnes of the meeting experience today
    Maxine Walden: fullness

    I suggest Pila elaborate his point posted after the 8am guardian meeting

    Maxine Walden: I saw, Pila, where you posted a note about the meeting; would you care to say, mention anything further along that line?
    Maxine Walden: hi, Qt, continuing some thoughts from the guardians meeting this morning, the 8amSL meeting
    Qt Core: ok, just read the emails
    Pila Mulligan: I guess my primary idea is that in a real life sangha the poeple can see needs arise
    Maxine Walden: great,
    Pila Mulligan: here, the needs are less visible unless they are expressed
    Pila Mulligan: when they are expressed there is plenty of support
    Maxine Walden: the need/courage/safety to express oneself
    Pila Mulligan: but the venue of PaB may inhibit the wilingness ot express the need
    Qt Core: (wonder if people like here AS there is no teacher/guide)
    Pila Mulligan: so maybe PaB is like the front office
    Pila Mulligan: but people may at some point need help with somehting they do not want to discuss in the front office
    Pema Pera: the PaB Village may help in that direction
    Maxine Walden: and you are not sure whether the person in need can access the more consultative atmosphere he/she might need
    Pila Mulligan: I think there is plenty of help around for people able to obtain it
    Maxine Walden: How so, Pema?
    Pila Mulligan: here, the village, IM etc
    Pema Pera: already for more than a year many guardians have formed strong bonds by visiting each other in their guardian houses
    Maxine Walden: developing cadres or neighborhoods of especially trusted friends?
    Pema Pera: at the coast, or in the woods
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Pema Pera: and now that we are concentrating more plots at a smaller site, by necessity, we move from home steading to a village structure
    Pema Pera: and in that way, we may see some kind of new and extended support structure arising naturally
    Maxine Walden: physically closer and thus maybe emotionally so as well
    Pila Mulligan: PaB definitely has the capacity to open people to personal growth and challenging perceptions
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Pema Pera: and yes, Qt, I think you make a good point: the absence of a teacher may well be one of the attractive parts of PaB :)
    Pila Mulligan: the quesiton may be how to get from here to there
    Qt Core: chatting wich each other sitting in each own porch ? ;-)
    Pema Pera: visting each other, Qt :)
    Pema Pera: or dropping by in the neighborhood cafe
    Pema Pera: without chat logs :)
    Maxine Walden: but, Qt, your image of each on his/her own front porch does conjure the image of someone afraid to venture out emotionally
    Maxine Walden: which might be relevant to some concerns Pila was expressing
    Qt Core: yes, maxime, plausibel, probably me
    Qt Core: plausible

    We come to the first 15 min bell and illustrative of the energy the conversation just picks up after the 90 second pause

    Maxine Walden: maybe not just you, Qt, but all of us at times
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello all
    Pema Pera: An ongoing challenge will also be to keep a balance: to invite people to open up further if they like, but to also let people feel comfortable not to say more than they like, to keep as much privacy as they feel they need. We have to also respect both needs and wishes.
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Maxine Walden: we are mulling over some of the themes of the guardian meeting this morning...
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx Maxine
    Maxine Walden: about trust, openness, sharing, but also as Pema is just mentioning the other aspect of respecting privacy as well
    stevenaia Michinaga: I've been reading the emails
    Maxine Walden: yes, you have the gist then

    Pila expresses a concern once again

    Pila Mulligan: the situations I am referring to would probably be fairly infrequent, where someone feels affected by a new sensation or awareness, and would want help, but be reluctant to say so
    stevenaia Michinaga: comfort is the most important, especially the comfort of questioning
    Maxine Walden: hmmm, yes
    Pema Pera: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: as we have seen in the past, some outright refuse to question what they need hold so tight
    stevenaia Michinaga: others watch listen and learn in the very same environment we have here
    stevenaia Michinaga: almost ironic
    Pema Pera: :)
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Pema Pera: we are like a forest where everyone grows at their own pace . . . .
    Pema Pera: some like the shade, some the sunshine
    stevenaia Michinaga: some are weeds ?
    Maxine Walden: and sometimes the same person prefers the shade while at othertimes the sun
    Pema Pera loves weeds
    Pema Pera: and ferns
    Maxine Walden: I heard a definition of a weed, something like 'a plant you do not want to be there'
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: a gardener could be defined as someone desperately trying to let nature *not* do what it wants :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I was speaking of those weeds
    Pila Mulligan: almost every yoga or meditaion teacher has expereinced several instances where someone comes to them and says 'I'm having these really strange feelings'
    Maxine Walden: ferns are so cool, hundreds of millions of years old
    Pila Mulligan: this is the infrequent occurrence I was trying to addres
    Maxine Walden: feelings as weeds, Pila/
    Maxine Walden: ?
    Pila Mulligan: not necessarily, just new feelings
    Pila Mulligan: sensations relating to growth thru a practice
    Pila Mulligan: such a sPaB
    Pila Mulligan: it is part of the journey
    Fefonz Quan: hi all!
    Maxine Walden: We are mulling over some of the themes from the morning guardian meeting today,

    Pema suggests differences in PaB where we have no official teachers

    Pema Pera: yes, Pila, and if we had an official teacher, that teacher would have a responsibility to deal with that directly -- our situation is different, and it is a challenge to distribute that responsibility over the PaB community
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it is
    Pila Mulligan: the challenging apect is what I am referring to
    Pila Mulligan: and I do ont have the answer :)
    Maxine Walden: perhaps the answer might lay in best empathic efforts at the moment, respecting the various things we are trying to consider?
    Pema Pera: perhaps there is no need for an answer . . . .
    Pema Pera: perhaps, as Maxine said, we can let things grow naturally
    Maxine Walden: no weeds in this natural garden
    Pila Mulligan: perhpas that is just waht it is doing
    Pema Pera: and part of that natural growth is of course signalling the need, as you have done!
    Maxine Walden: just best efforts
    Pema Pera: we can talk about what needs to be done without trying to force the issue and setting up a structure -- talking and seeing what we are talking about in and by itself may be enough . . . . clearing open spaces in the woods, to continue the metaphor.
    Pema Pera: and I'm really glad that you brought up the issue, Pila, thank you!
    Mickorod Renard: Hi, sorry I am late,,and soz for missin the meeting earlier
    Qt Core: hi mick

    Pila mentions a comment hesitancy in PaB

    Pila Mulligan: actually, Pema, it was a cmment on something others brought up -- a common heistancy that was affecting their PaB presence
    Fefonz Quan: :-)
    Pila Mulligan: comment*
    Pila Mulligan: the issue is the hesitent sense assopciated with the front office :)
    Pila Mulligan: it is natural, too
    Pila Mulligan: and infrequent
    Pila Mulligan: but there
    Maxine Walden: and Pila, maybe that sense of exposure, too much front office, may have to do with an internal sense of fear of exposure that is really not so much linked with the group but internal hesitation within the individual
    Fefonz Quan: (front office?)
    Pila Mulligan: it is no doubt a personal mater that arises in several contexts
    Maxine Walden: Pila, care to cue Fef on as to 'front office'?
    Pila Mulligan: PaB as the fornt office
    Pila Mulligan: the public street facing aspect of Kira
    Pila Mulligan: where people come in spontaneuosly just to see whats up
    Pila Mulligan: and where things can lead to real personal growth in many cases
    Pila Mulligan: and where then there may be a need for a little help
    Pila Mulligan: if there is a hesitency to express the need, the alternativ emay be to drift away
    Mickorod Renard: do you have an example Pila,,as I missed the begining of the conversation
    Pila Mulligan: there is plaenty of help around if someone seeks it
    Pila Mulligan: well, at today's guardian meeting there were a few people mentioning relatd idea
    Pila Mulligan: a personal matter that was too big to lay ut at PaB
    Pila Mulligan: out*
    Mickorod Renard: are we talking emotional needs or instuction in PaB?
    Pila Mulligan: more personal needs
    Pila Mulligan: but arising as a reasult of PaB
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Pila Mulligan: it is pretty simple if the person can seek the help they want
    Pila Mulligan: if they cannot, then they are probably at a loss and may drift away
    Mickorod Renard: yes

    And some suggestions for help with that hesitancy are offered

    Pila Mulligan: there was asuggetsion that guradian meetings may help, and that makes sense
    Pema Pera: and possibly longer meetings, short retreats
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I can understand that,,more intimate maybe
    Maxine Walden: yes, Pema, I thought that an important point, longer times potentially
    arabella Ella: i think Pila's remarks about group dynamics and group sustainability and support were relevant
    arabella Ella: including how groups evolve over time ... communities rather
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
    Mickorod Renard: I find I have learnt so much from PaB,,but that also tends to mean I have more questions too, as my foundations become larger
    Fefonz Quan: I second Pila with the notion that there are some ingredients that are 'reduced' in SL
    arabella Ella: yes body language for example
    stevenaia Michinaga: isn't the basis of PAB to be open or learn to "drop" what we grasp, like an opening hand and heart
    arabella Ella: or innunendoes that are not visible here
    Maxine Walden: indeed
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Wol!
    stevenaia Michinaga: asking for help should be fundamental
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    Fefonz Quan: (innunendons?)
    Pema Pera: yes, Steve!
    Maxine Walden: musing over this morning's guardian meeting's themes, Wol
    arabella Ella: innunendoes = discrete suggestions
    arabella Ella: hints
    Fefonz Quan: k thanks ara
    Wol Euler: ty

    Questions of privacy

    Mickorod Renard: because PaB is recorded may lead to some holding back in asking personal questions
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Pila Mulligan: true
    Pila Mulligan: the privacy idea
    Mickorod Renard: I think I am generaly open, but even at that I hold back some
    Fefonz Quan: Maybe get some 'increased privacy' posts will help?
    Pema Pera: if we introduce a several-hour "afternoon retreat" as an experiment, without recording, do you think that would address your concerns, Pila?
    Qt Core: mixing the privacy issue and a misunderstandig i think i had i may ask...
    Pila Mulligan: it is a nice idea, and maybe it wold, but I think the idea I was addressing has blossomed into more than it began as, Pema
    Qt Core: wasn't the 8am meeting an organizational one more than a second private (not so private as it sill was recorded and published session ?)
    Pema Pera: not only organizational, Qt
    Pema Pera: in fact, there was no agenda
    Maxine Walden: Think it began as organizational, and then, it may have been after you left, Qt, it did become more focussed on private sharings and inhibitions against such
    Pema Pera: it just seemed like a good idea to let us gather together to see what would come up
    Maxine Walden: a natural evolution of the discussion, as I recall
    Wol Euler nods. I'm sorry I missed it.
    Pema Pera: yes
    Qt Core: some of that started before my leave maxime
    Qt Core: (i sayd i misunderstood it)
    Pema Pera: ah, sorry Qt
    Maxine Walden: ah, sorry as well, Qt.
    arabella Ella: what Qt may be referring to is Pema's statement that the 8am meeting was recorded for the wiki?
    Mickorod Renard: is there any evaluation on what percentage of time at pab we should steer towards 'being' and personal chat etc?
    Qt Core: but that make me thing, does a private session here and there, not more than one at week for example, for pab guardian only, would help where the privacy would be an issue ?
    Fefonz Quan: good point Mick
    Qt Core: thing=think

    Pema offers an advantage to recording the discussions in partial response to the concern for privacy

    Pema Pera: as for recording, Arabella, the advantage is that the group in that way can give feedback to the working group who is now starting to coordinate activities
    arabella Ella nods
    arabella Ella was trying to clarify or attempt to clarify what Qt may have meant
    Fefonz Quan: btw, i am not sure te recording is the only issue here.
    Pema Pera: yes, Qt, definitely there is a need for private conversations, and the new Village structure can help in that way, as the old guardian plots already did
    Mickorod Renard: I know in the tuesday sesion that I am responsible for, I feel I am not well enough experienced to give guidance in 'Being@
    Pema Pera: instead of guidance, just asking questions may be enough, Mick
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: we all give each other inspiration and sympathy, perhaps that is all the guidance we need

    I have to go, but the conversation continues

    Maxine Walden: Have to go, good friends, another meeting to attend. Thanks for the good discussion
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Maxine! have a nice week
    Wol Euler: I think the majority of us would consider ourselves non-experts, Mick. I certainly do.
    arabella Ella: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, much to take in here
    Qt Core: even not-expert would be too much for me ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: ;) thans Wol..I am a little lacking in confidence sometimes
    Pema Pera: hahaha, Qt !
    Pema Pera: perhaps we can all wear titles of "not-at-all-expert" !
    Wol Euler grins
    Pema Pera: or "who? me? expert?"
    Fefonz Quan: the non0expertise course
    Mickorod Renard: but interestingly, now I have become more comfortable, I find, after reading the logs back, that i too am becoming drawn into ofering support
    Pema Pera: but seriously, the strength of PaB lies in its peer-based approach, I feel
    Pema Pera: glad to hear that, Mick, yes, I can see that!
    Pila Mulligan: freindship is usually enough
    Mickorod Renard: yes

    Arabella mentions concerns for the future of PaB

    arabella Ella: Pema ... why do I get the feeling you may have some concerns and that maybe you may wish to verbalise them so we could see how to possibly address them ... not sure if this is the case! Just my intuition speaking!
    Pema Pera: concerns, Arabella, in what direction?
    arabella Ella: concerns on the future sustainability of PaB and which direction if any it should take?

    And Pema responds about some structure but trust in the natural growth of the organization

    Pema Pera: It's funny to verbalize these aspects . . . I could honestly say that I have no concerns at all and also I could honestly say that I have concerns all the time
    arabella Ella: perhaps as you said towards an even more increased peer support fture?
    arabella Ella: future
    Pema Pera: the gist of it is: watching with full engagement and at the same time letting it all go and grow as it wants
    Pema Pera: no, that was not my intention, Arabella; I think we're doing fine with respect to peer support
    Pema Pera: perhaps the short summary is: I let each concern bubble up, act upon it as best I can, then let it go, and watch what happens in and with the group
    arabella Ella: although ... isnt there also the aspect that ... if left free to grow as it wants it may lose some of the PaB spirit ... i personally hope it wont
    Pema Pera: that's a very interesting point, Arabella
    Mickorod Renard: paB sounds like a child growing up,,,how much do we control its own future developement?
    Pema Pera: the answer seems to be: watching intently, yet not trying to control
    Fefonz Quan: even real parents control their child's future less thatn they think
    Pema Pera: we tend to fall into either of two extremes:
    Pema Pera: eithere we tend to want to control
    Pema Pera: or we give up and look away and no longer care
    Pema Pera: but there is a third way, and I trust that way
    arabella Ella: or ... we facilitate and guide and mentor?
    Pema Pera: yes, that is part of the third way
    Pema Pera: to do what feels natural at each step
    arabella Ella: yes
    Pema Pera: individually and collectively

    Reference to the new working group

    Pema Pera: the new working group is an example: not an attempt to control but an attempt to coordinate and facilitate
    arabella Ella nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Pema Pera: to channel the ideas and energy and enthusiasm that comes out of the group back into the group
    Pema Pera: without coordination, yes, the group would probably disintegrate in a few months :)
    Pema Pera: like so many volunteer organizations
    Mickorod Renard: nods

    Arabella brings up the issue of more discussion of practices 

    arabella Ella: one interesting aspect that was raised during the guardians meeting was to try to dedicate more time to allowing individuals to desceribe their practice ... and that is one element where i feel i could learn a great deal from others
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Pema Pera: but I don't see coordination in terms of concern or worry, rather as just something natural that needs to happen
    arabella Ella: (as a non-expeert)
    Pema Pera: yes, Arabella, I'd love to see that!
    Pema Pera: During many if not most PaB sessions, I am trying to coax people to talk more about their experiences, as you may have noticed . . . we can all do that -- or would you prefer to add some specific structure? That would be perfectly fine too!
    Pema Pera: there is always the question of how to balance organic growth vs. imposed structure
    Fefonz Quan also feels that we go astray from the practice many times
    Mickorod Renard: that was my fear Fef

    Pema urges active participation re discussions of individuals' practices

    Pema Pera: many of you have mentioned that to me, at some point or another -- so let's all try to do something about that!

    And Arabella, Wol and others mention the 'free spirit' reluctance to do so

    arabella Ella: perhaps most of us are free spirits and would prefer simple organic growth as opposed to imposed structure?
    Pema Pera: in each and every session we can try to just pay a bit more attention to the practice side of things, volunteering to talk about it, asking others to say more
    Wol Euler: and yet many of us feel the lack that you spoke of...
    Pema Pera: why do you think that is, Wol?
    Wol Euler: well, for most if not all of us, that was what brought us here in the first place.
    Wol Euler: it seems to me that the amount of time spent discussing the practices has been steadily declining.
    arabella Ella nods
    Pema Pera: yes, I agree -- so what can we do about it?
    Wol Euler: maybe this is natural, as groups get larger they acquire diffuse interests

    Arabella suggests those with more practice experience share more for the others to learn (perhaps as one way to overcome the reluctance to share)

    arabella Ella: i think it would be great if we could encourage those who know more about practice to share their experiences
    Pema Pera: may I ask, to each of you individually, what you feel prevents you from talking about your experience, or asking others to do so, at a typical PaB session?
    arabella Ella: and perhaps another suggestion could be
    arabella Ella: some sort of mentoring on practice
    arabella Ella: perhaps for guardians during the guardian sessions?
    Pema Pera: interesting suggestion, Arabella!
    Pema Pera: (unfortunately, I really have to go now, RL is calling, but I very much hope we can continue this conversation, both in sessions as well as in the email group -- it is the essential point of PaB!)
    arabella Ella: i personally dont think i have an answer to that question Pema
    Mickorod Renard: bye Pema
    Wol Euler: bye pema, take care.
    Qt Core: bye pema
    arabella Ella: bye Pema and thanks!
    Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
    Pema Pera: perhaps we can all think about it, Arabella!
    arabella Ella nods
    Pema Pera: and all !
    Mickorod Renard: ye
    Pema Pera: see y'all soon again!
    Pema Pera: bfn
    Mickorod Renard: bye

    Pema leaves and the discussion continues in which Wol and others mention some of the de-mystifying of meditation practice  and why people come to PaB practice and sessions

    Qt Core: it is hard speaking about practice when i haven't a structured or planned one, i may say i sometime most than drop become distract and let some of my thoughts fall
    Wol Euler: actually I think that hearing about non-practices like yours would be of great benefit, Qt.
    Wol Euler: because I think there is a perception among first-time visitors that a "meditation practice" must be something rigorous and strenuous and carefully managed.
    arabella Ella would love to hear Pila discuss his experience of practice with us here
    Mickorod Renard: thats a good point Wol
    Qt Core: and than thay can say if a chaotic mind like qt's can do it ... ;-)
    Wol Euler: whereas part of the purpose of the nine seconds is to de-sacralize meditation, to make it a normal part of life, a tool.
    Mickorod Renard: perhaps we can break the whole up into manageable pieces
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Wol Euler: exactly, qt!
    Mickorod Renard: I think chaotic describes my mind too Qt
    Qt Core: i sometimes talk about pab with rl friends, and i'm still unable to channel; to them the non high level nonritualistic and non monastic style of it
    Qt Core: (ans they still call me crazy)
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: people often think I am crazy when I simply mention my use of SL let alone mentioning PaB
    Qt Core: oh, ara i don'r even notice that anymore
    stevenaia Michinaga: this may be an interesting place to begin, by each of us describing PaB to the group as if we were explaining it to a friend
    arabella Ella: ah ha
    Wol Euler grins
    stevenaia Michinaga: I suspect thre will be 27 differeing explanations
    Qt Core: well, to sum it up in just a couple world i use (the italian equavalent orm of) :"my meditabond friends"
    Mickorod Renard: if I had to do that you would quickly realise that after a year I still dont know what we do here
    stevenaia Michinaga: grins
    Wol Euler: try it, mick :)
    arabella Ella: what is it to you steve?
    arabella Ella: i'm curious
    Wol Euler: (try to explain)
    stevenaia Michinaga: gulp
    Mickorod Renard: erm
    arabella Ella: he he
    Wol Euler laughgs
    arabella Ella: lovely definitions there :)
    Mickorod Renard: se,,we are stuffed
    Wol Euler: there is no wrong answer. Go for it.
    Wol Euler: your opinion is right, because it is your opinion.
    stevenaia Michinaga: first of all it's a way to formalize what I do anyway, change viewpoints by pausing
    Mickorod Renard: I will just look for that great description you gave the other night ,,in my log
    Wol Euler: hey, that's cheating!
    Wol Euler: *your
    Wol Euler: *your* words
    stevenaia Michinaga: the break is a way to simply break my concentration
    stevenaia Michinaga: like I said last night (not cheating, remembering)
    stevenaia Michinaga: like opening up a window and getting fresh air, then the moment passes and the memory remains
    stevenaia Michinaga: trust me when I say, I am not rigorous about any of this
    arabella Ella: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: it happens when it happens
    Mickorod Renard: for me too, its a way to re focus on what is an important side of my life that i am blind to because of continual demands to think in a box rather than outside a box
    stevenaia Michinaga: just happy when it does happen
    Qt Core: rl calls, heve to go, bye all
    arabella Ella: i find this a place for peace and tranquility where friends are totally non judgemental
    Pila Mulligan describing PaB to someone: first, generic, PaB is an internet discussion group that is available 4 times a day -- second, if there is further curiosity, PaB proposes practicing 9 second pauses during the day
    Pila Mulligan: those two things -- chats several times a day and pauses, can add up to somehting helpful
    Pila Mulligan: not necessarily doing them all the time, but having them available
    Wol Euler nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    arabella Ella: nice way of putting it Pila
    Mickorod Renard: plus,,its better than watching boring television
    Pila Mulligan: :) by far
    Wol Euler: well ...
    Mickorod Renard: star trek was good once
    Wol Euler: what about you, Ara? You come here every night, what is it that you come for?
    arabella Ella: i think i just replied to that a few minutes ago Wol
    arabella Ella: for the peace and tranquility and the non judgemental friends here
    Wol Euler: so it's purely a social function?
    arabella Ella: like a safe space in an otherwise chaotic life
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    arabella Ella: no not purely social at all
    Mickorod Renard: I too like the broad subject matter discussed,,even if i dont understand it
    arabella Ella: i would like it to be more of a learning curve too ... it already is to some extent
    Mickorod Renard: and to see you Wol
    Wol Euler: awwwww :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,I had best leave,,tend to my gardens
    Wol Euler grins
    Wol Euler: I would answer differently depending who I was speaking to, describing either the practice or the group
    Wol Euler: I came here for the practices, I was looking for a way to deal with anxiety
    Wol Euler: and found some very useful tools, and a lot of inspiration.
    Wol Euler: but I stayed for the conversation (much of which is related to those tools and the habits of mind of using them
    Wol Euler: like Pema and Stim's discussions, or the theme sessions
    arabella Ella nods
    arabella Ella: i feel i have learnt a great deal here too
    arabella Ella: and would like to learn more
    Pila Mulligan: Wol, what has been most helpful in terms of your fist idea, dealing with anxiety?
    Wol Euler: dropping and looking :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Wol Euler: to see what is really going on, and if that matches to what I fear
    Wol Euler: because most often, it doesn't.
    Pila Mulligan: do you feel anxiety as a vibration?
    Wol Euler: hmmmmmm
    Wol Euler: hrd to describe. it is physical, yes.
    Pila Mulligan: if often can be, it seems
    Wol Euler: but it comes from within me, not external
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Wol Euler: I feel it as a sudden column of ice, from my throat down to my bowels, that grabs at my heart. My hands start to shake so badly that I cannot even type
    Pila Mulligan: people sometimes refer to quivering with fear
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Pila Mulligan: the shaking is like that
    Pila Mulligan: so it is a recongizable physical sensation that can be compared with feeling peaceful
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, definitely.
    Pila Mulligan: where you may feel warm inside and calm
    Pila Mulligan: ... and to think, just seeing what is really going on can help change fear to peace
    arabella Ella: isnt the difference a feeling of loss of control?
    Pila Mulligan: I think it is confusion ara
    Wol Euler: yes, that too. usually that, at the root
    arabella Ella: also confusion
    arabella Ella: but not only
    Pila Mulligan: qloss of control is probably a reality
    Pila Mulligan: loss*
    Pila Mulligan: associated with anxiety
    Wol Euler: my therapist taught me how to identify that feeling, to help to head it off by recognizing when it starts
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, feel free to join me at my 7:00 meeting :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Adams Rubble: hello everyone :)
    Wol Euler: bye steve, take care
    Adams Rubble: bye Steve
    Wol Euler: heh, I was about to ask where Pila went :)
    Pila Mulligan: maybe even recognizing it before it starts
    Wol Euler: yes, exactly.
    Wol Euler: and noting the symptoms, and how my reactions reinforced the physical effects.
    Wol Euler: she pointed out that I stop breathing when I am very stressed.
    Pila Mulligan: by the time it has gotten to a column of ice that grabs your heart, it is much worse and harder to deal with
    Pila Mulligan: bretahing always helps
    Wol Euler: yep
    Pila Mulligan: the sooner the better :)
    arabella Ella: fraid i must leave
    arabella Ella: but empathise with you lots Wol there
    Pila Mulligan: bye Arabella
    Adams Rubble: bye aarabella
    Wol Euler: goodngiht ara, take care.
    arabella Ella: nite all
    Wol Euler: and thank you :)
    Pila Mulligan: Adams, my comments were not suggesting a shortage of teachers and mentors
    Wol Euler points at the recordeer and raises an eyebrow
    Pila Mulligan: shall we turn it off?
    Adams Rubble: yes :)
    Wol Euler: done.
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    Originally written on 14:04, 12 Oct 2009
    I like the idea of a garden which appreciates both the wild and the manicured somehow. What a great session. :)
    Posted 11:39, 9 Apr 2010
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