2009.10.26 13:00 - Where Do You Start From?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pema Pera: Hi Scathach!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema
    Pema Pera: Is there a topic you'd like to talk about today?
    Scathach Rhiadra: no, not anything in particular:)
    Pema Pera: and btw Stim will not be coming in today -- he and I are in Princeton both in RL and today we have many unexpected encounters, all interesting, but leaving him with too little time left to join us
    Pema Pera: So I'll play Stim for this afternoon :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: you don't look a bit like him:)
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: don't act like him either
    Pema Pera: that makes it so interesting when we talk about topics we deeply agree upon, since we express them so differently
    We talked about the next RL PaB retreat.
    Scathach Rhiadra: so when is the retreat in Princeton, next week?
    Pema Pera: yes, at the end of next week
    Pema Pera: wanna come over :?
    Scathach Rhiadra: no, not a chance:)
    Pema Pera: perhaps we could have a mixed RL/SL event, for an hour each day . . .
    Pema Pera: if enough people bring laptops
    Pema Pera: (hard to set up the software on desktops, too much of a hassle)
    Scathach Rhiadra: mm, could be possible
    Scathach Rhiadra: but a lot of work, would cut into your sessions
    Pema Pera: we could pick the 1 pm times
    Pema Pera: well, to install SL of desktops, we can't do it ourselves, would have to ask the systems people to do it
    Pema Pera: and get the right computers in the right room, etc
    Scathach Rhiadra: you could spend so much time woth the tech issues, no time left for your retreat!
    Pema Pera: and some people are used to Macs, some to PCs
    Pema Pera: yes, exactly
    Pema Pera: I'll send out a note, inviting folks to bring their laptop
    Pema Pera: we do have wireless connections, so that part will work
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    I suggested a topic, which then developed in various direction for more than an hour.
    Pema Pera: One theme that I have seen coming back in many discussions lately is the question of where do you start from
    Pema Pera: so often it happens that we start from a number of tacit assumptions, and from that position we try to find something that is already excluded by those very assumptions
    Scathach Rhiadra: well, it all depends where you are when you start:)
    Pema Pera: or where you think you are
    Pema Pera: how you view yourself, yes
    Pema Pera: when you identify yourself with a limited body and mind, and are really convinced that that is what you really are, and then you go off trying to find some kind of enlightenment, or you try to help others in some way, you're likely to get stuck
    Pema Pera: and when you really believe that we are living in a linear past-present-future time, and that that is all there is, you get stuck too
    Pema Pera: hi Bolo!
    Pema Pera: Thanks for a great session this morning!
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: but is that not assuming that people who may be already engaged in some practice are automatically stuck?
    Pema Pera: not automatically
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bolo, nice to meet you:0
    Pema Pera: you can wear a shirt and you can glue it to your skin
    Pema Pera: I prefer to wear a shirt -- it may look the same from the outside but it feels quite differently
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila:0
    Pila Mulligan: hi Bolonath, Pema and Scathach
    Pema Pera: Hi Pila!
    Bolonath Crystal: nice to meet you, too, scathach :) namaste pila
    Pila Mulligan: Stim is missing :)
    Pema Pera: if you take your current worldview as one hypothesis, and a wider view as another,
    Pema Pera: then you don't have to believe or disbelieve either
    Scathach Rhiadra: he has switched avs with Pema maybe:)
    Pema Pera: but you can explore both, without getting stuck in any one
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: yeah, Stim and I switched roles for today
    Pema Pera: he was getting too busy
    Pema Pera: (we're both in Princeton)
    I gave a quick summary of the first quarter of an hour, and then Pila suggested we all share our own starting points; this could be taken either atemporal, as in "where am I starting from in my current practice" or temporal/historic, as in "how did I first start my spiritual explorations" -- it turns out that most of us would interpret it in the latter way.
    Pema Pera: Pila and Bolo, we were talking about what your starting points are in a spiritual explorations, and what difference that makes
    Pema Pera: if you start with an idea, it may be ungrounded
    Pema Pera: but if you start with where you think you are, you may get stuck quickly
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pila Mulligan: it would be interesting to have a survey of where people think they are in starting spiritual journeys
    Pema Pera: yes, and to what extent we can express that; most of it may be tacit assumptions . . .
    Pila Mulligan: or curiosity
    Pila Mulligan: i Sophia
    Pema Pera: hi Sophia!
    Pila Mulligan: hi*
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello sophia:)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste sophia
    sophia Placebo: hi all :)
    Pema Pera: that was a cheerful way of entering, Sophia :)
    sophia Placebo: lol
    Pema Pera: dancing your way to your cushion
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    sophia Placebo: (i was pressing the wrong keyborad keys)
    Pema Pera: more fun that way, perhaps they were the right ones!
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Pema Pera: we were talking about assumptions we carry with us in our practice, in our explorations -- hi Qt!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Qt:)
    Qt Core: Hi all!
    sophia Placebo: hi Qt
    Pila Mulligan: hi Qt
    Bolonath was the first one to give an account.
    Bolonath Crystal: i still try to remember at which point i started my spiritual journey
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste qt
    Scathach Rhiadra was just thinking the same thing Boko:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Bolo*
    Pema Pera: yes, Bolo?
    Pema Pera: (btw, I'm the stand-in for Stim this afternoon)
    Bolonath Crystal: as far as i remember that was a quite wordly desire, in the beginning
    Bolonath Crystal: i was trying to gain control over body energy
    Bolonath Crystal: during that time i was doing martial arts
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Bolonath Crystal: i started to meditate. some of the insights must have let me on another path then
    Bolonath Crystal: btu i can't really tell, when and what it was
    Bolonath Crystal: but*
    Because Scathach had simultaneously brought up the same interpretation, I asked her as well.
    Pema Pera: What was your starting point, Scathach?
    Scathach Rhiadra: difficult to say....
    Scathach Rhiadra: I admit I had a relatively unusual family background, particularly for ireland...
    Scathach Rhiadra: But I do remember things like becoming vegetarian when I was 9 yrs old
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: and having a very conviction that belief in anything was not good enough, there was a knowing or knowledge , always seemed to be there
    Scathach Rhiadra: very strong*
    Pema Pera: Hi Zon, good to see you again!
    Zon Quar: heya
    Pila Mulligan: hi Zon
    sophia Placebo: hi zon
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste zon
    Qt Core: hi Zon
    Scathach Rhiadra: my family had a connection to India, so there were no real obstacles to my explorations from a young age
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Zon:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: can't really remember a starting point:)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Zon Quar: what is teh subject ?
    Bolonath Crystal: probably you started a few lives ago, scathach :)
    Pema Pera: (we've talked about unacknowledged assumptions and starting points for explorations, Zon)
    Zon Quar: nods
    Scathach Rhiadra: :) could be, I sometimes feel that old:)
    Pema Pera: typically we start with a particular idea of an aim or goal, and then we refine our understanding of what that aim or goal could be, more and more radically -- in the end it may not resemble at all what we started out for, as Bolo indicated
    Pema Pera: and at the same time we can also start with a very sharp intuition, without knowing where that came from or what it meant . . .
    Scathach Rhiadra: a strange thing...
    Scathach Rhiadra: I can remember when I was only two or three years old, we hgot a black & white TV set...
    Scathach Rhiadra: and one of the first things we saw was a BBC report of the Dalai Lama arriving in India after his escape
    Scathach Rhiadra: I can still see that in my mind, or maybe I only think I can, who knows:)
    Pila Mulligan: no doubt you can
    Pema Pera: that's an amazing early memory, Scathach!
    Scathach Rhiadra: one of the few I have from then, don't really remember my childhood much
    Scathach Rhiadra: anyway, does anyone else want to say how they started..
    Zon Quar: started waht ?
    Pila Mulligan: hi Storm
    sophia Placebo: Hi Storm
    Pema Pera: hi Storm!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Storm:)
    Storm Nordwind: Hi! Workshop finished early :)
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste storm
    Qt Core: hi Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste
    Zon Quar: hi Storm
    The next one to share her starting points was Sophia.
    sophia Placebo: well i was born in religoius family
    sophia Placebo: may grandpa tought us alot about earth and bound us to it , my grandma tought us the old myths
    sophia Placebo: the political uneasness that may affect you or a relative may make you aware about others and ask : why they do that ?
    Bolonath Crystal: what myths are you talking about, sophia?
    sophia Placebo: the oil and shifting from farmer sciety to doctors and professions bring new habits and alot of changes that even affect the religion or religion related traditions
    sophia Placebo: all that brought the questions faster , what why who where and when
    sophia Placebo: though the one that rise the dout was the quran
    sophia Placebo: in it : the old unbelivers said to the prophets that their messegaes was of ancients and myths
    sophia Placebo: and also in it : one must not follow what their paretnst belive , he must make his own
    sophia Placebo: so i begin to ask what my parebts where wrong but they thought they were right
    sophia Placebo: parents*
    sophia Placebo: * local myths bolo , mix btw sumerrian assyrian etc etc
    Bolonath Crystal: oic. ty
    sophia Placebo: so that was the start , if it may be called a start
    Pema Pera: did your parents enjoy your questions, Sophia?
    sophia Placebo: i didnt share them
    sophia Placebo: not all of them but questions are discussed usually
    Pila Mulligan: ... and you could tell they thought they were right :)
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    sophia Placebo: some questions were just ill formed at that time
    Bolonath Crystal: well, most of my questions were, and probably still are
    sophia Placebo: not really pila , mother used to say i dont know everything :) and father used to say well you may be right but keep in mind you might be wrong
    Storm Nordwind recalls a female Muslim Malaysian colleage in Kuala Lumpur whose husband said she should not be asked such questions. So she quiet in the family and instead asked me at work.
    Storm Nordwind: *should not ask
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    sophia Placebo: some questions put poeple at unease
    sophia Placebo: they dont want to hear them
    Storm Nordwind: Perhaps they fear how they would have to reevaluate their life if they started to find answers for them
    sophia Placebo: specially when knowladge isnt that good
    sophia Placebo: maybe , maybe it is just their own questions that they supress
    Bolonath Crystal: in every culture there are some assumptions which are not to be questioned
    Storm Nordwind nods to both sophia and Bolo
    sophia Placebo: ( i just have feeling that there is some assumptions that muslims are rigid stony mind poepel )
    Pila Mulligan: your parents sound far less like that than mine did :)
    Storm Nordwind: Or some of the people I've seen in the US media since moving here!
    Pila Mulligan: the media can be the voice of entropy
    Storm Nordwind looks on Google for "the voice of entropy" and gets zero hits. A nice coining Pila!
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pila Mulligan: (c)
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Pila was the next one to reminisce.
    Pila Mulligan: I remember my journey's first day, it was in the spring of 1973 (age 27) ... a friend showed me the I Ching and it captured my interest and never let go ... the rest fell in place thereafter (starting daily meditation in '74 & tai chi in '75)
    Storm Nordwind: For me it was June of the same year. And also the I Ching
    Pila Mulligan: :) cool
    Pema Pera: Hi Yakuzza!
    Pila Mulligan: hi Yak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste yak
    Pema Pera: welcome to American summer time :)
    Qt Core: hi yak
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Yakuzza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i knew but didn´t fit in my schedule
    I gave a very brief account. Since we had been going for well over an hour, I had to leave soon afterward, and I will leave the rest of the log uncommented.  There were no further starting accounts.
    Pema Pera: It started for me in 1970 with some form of yoga and hindu meditation, and then zen the next year
    Bolonath Crystal: so many different paths gathering here :) i like that
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: see you all soon again, have to get back to RL
    Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
    Bolonath Crystal: bye pema
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema:)
    Pema Pera: thank you all for sharing so many histories!
    Qt Core: bye pema
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must be off too, Namaste all:)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Scath
    Bolonath Crystal: bye scathach
    Qt Core: bye scath
    Storm Nordwind slips out quietly. Bye everyone
    Pila Mulligan: bye Storm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye storm
    Bolonath Crystal: bye storm
    Qt Core: bye storm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok bye everyone :)
    Bolonath Crystal: bye everybody :) om shanti
    Pila Mulligan: bye Bolonath
    Qt Core: bye bolo
    PhilNS Schumann: hello there :-)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Phil
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you again
    PhilNS Schumann: and you Pila
    Qt Core: hi Phil
    Pila Mulligan: the sessison just ended a moment ago
    Pila Mulligan: quite a few people were here talking baout how their contemplative practices began
    PhilNS Schumann: eh.. I'm usually late .. I already know
    Qt Core: i'm still asking myself if i've ever started
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    PhilNS Schumann: suppose that asking oneself .. is a good sign about a start took place :-)
    Qt Core: hi bert
    Pila Mulligan: hi Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: hello qt, pila and phins :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: how are you today ? :-)
    Qt Core: quite good
    Qt Core: how many europeans sl still being in dst got ?
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: dst ? what is that, please ?
    Qt Core: daylight saving time
    Pila Mulligan: Hawaii never chnages the clock -- easier
    PhilNS Schumann: hahah well in Italy we changed last saturday .. and it's been wonderful
    Bertram Jacobus: oh. you mean how many people are with wrong time ? ;-)
    Qt Core: but no fun ;-)
    PhilNS Schumann: love the lights in the morning
    Qt Core: yeah, especially as i forgot that my alarm would change automagically
    Bertram Jacobus: yes pila. many people don´t like that change two times a year ...
    Pila Mulligan: smart clock
    Pila Mulligan: it sure makes it simpler bet
    Pila Mulligan: Bert*
    Qt Core: so it went back 2 hours
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: yours plus its :)
    Bertram Jacobus: simpler !?
    Pila Mulligan: not chanigng the clock time
    Pila Mulligan: = simpler
    Bertram Jacobus: what makes what simpler please ?
    Bertram Jacobus: ah
    Bertram Jacobus: now i got it
    Pila Mulligan: the absence of the changing part, there is a continuity year round
    Qt Core: i'd like to be, sometime in an airport/station at the moment of the change to see what will happen really to the clocks
    PhilNS Schumann: ok, me neither .. don't like changing clock times...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: it came in here already via thought transmission i guess. ty :o)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: Phil you and Qt are both in Italy
    Bertram Jacobus: yes
    PhilNS Schumann: eh .. what part of the boot are you then Qt ?
    Qt Core: just outside Milan
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    PhilNS Schumann: lol
    Pila Mulligan: nieghbors
    PhilNS Schumann: you're my neighbour then probably --laughs--
    PhilNS Schumann: let me check if the light next to my flat are on
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe :-)
    PhilNS Schumann: hehe .. no you're not my neighbour ... laughs... I'm NE Milan
    Qt Core: N
    PhilNS Schumann: anyway .. I'd prefer no time changing .. and living in Hawaii I suppose
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: do all European countries change the same?
    PhilNS Schumann: mostly I suppose .. it would rather weird otherwise
    Qt Core: mostly, i think france stopped changing a couple years ago, but not sure
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m not sure ... may be the uk don´t change for example. but the countries which change do it common ...
    Pila Mulligan: I think Hawaii is the only US State that does not change
    PhilNS Schumann: nah .. can't be .. that would mean we get into a time difference just driving 3 hours
    Qt Core: they say we have saved some 90 million euros this year
    Pila Mulligan: on lighting costs?
    Bertram Jacobus: and some say the change would cost as much as is saved ... ;-)
    Qt Core: yes, i suppose
    PhilNS Schumann: hahaha Bert
    PhilNS Schumann: can easily be so
    Bertram Jacobus: as so often : we don´t really know ...
    PhilNS Schumann: of course... evaluating what is around us is as usual a matter of point of view
    Pila Mulligan: true
    Bertram Jacobus: beyond words ...
    PhilNS Schumann: so probably at the end of the day it doesn't matter what happens around you .. but what standing point of view you yourself decide to look that through
    PhilNS Schumann: I still liked time change when I woke up this morning :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: for me the word "nevertheless" got a big meaning, an important one ...
    PhilNS Schumann: mm why Bert ?
    PhilNS Schumann: personally I don't like giving words too much importance .. feel them very limited
    Bertram Jacobus: because : nevertheless we can´t be sure, what´s really happening or if anything at all is important or even going on - i choose to try to act ethical (for instance) ...
    Bertram Jacobus: ups
    Qt Core: i liked even the full dark this evening no more half light
    Qt Core: that i find disturbing while driving
    PhilNS Schumann: smiles.. missed the silence bell
    PhilNS Schumann: Pila ... you know I always wondered if you could think living anywhere in Europe for example ...
    Pila Mulligan: I would like to travel there, but not change residence (as far as i know at least)
    Pila Mulligan: Hawai` has my soul :)
    Qt Core: as a little revenge for the fact that most of us would like to live in Hawaii ?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: come visit :)
    PhilNS Schumann: no no .. I mean real living.. what about if you got forced to leave those islands then ?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I'd prefer not to go to the US, actually
    PhilNS Schumann: hehe . something like that , eys Qt
    Pila Mulligan: I came her eto get away form the US :)
    Bertram Jacobus: how long are you already there pila ? since when ?
    Pila Mulligan: 1985
    PhilNS Schumann: probably it's easier being away from US in Hawaii then in UK or even Italy
    Qt Core: maybe some of the isles then, Malta, Canaries, greece islands
    Pila Mulligan: when Ronald Reagan was President
    Bertram Jacobus: nice ... and ... isn´t there big poverty, too ?
    Pila Mulligan: there is poverty here, yes
    Bertram Jacobus: and how do you cope with that ?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and I like the more advanced European social polices
    Pila Mulligan: poverty in the ropics is ont as bad where there is plenty of ood around and the weather is hospitable
    Pila Mulligan: tropics*
    Qt Core: then you would go to the more cold places ;-)
    Pila Mulligan: lots of food rots on the ground here
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. that´s a big difference between the ancient world and the us - the social aspects, installations ...
    Pila Mulligan: but then cold places would worry me :)
    Bertram Jacobus: interesting ...
    Pila Mulligan: I have edible plants all around
    Pila Mulligan: all year round too
    Pila Mulligan: water catchment
    PhilNS Schumann: and the ocean
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: ofgten mentioned, but never experienced, the difference between living in more warm countries ...
    Pila Mulligan: but it is a shame people are homeless anywhere
    Bertram Jacobus: and in cold ones
    Pila Mulligan: I was just reading about thousands of empty houses in detroit that were foreclosed
    Pila Mulligan: where are thos epeople living now?
    Bertram Jacobus: ok : in more cold countries i know for sure ;-)
    Pila Mulligan: and why not in their old houses
    PhilNS Schumann: mm any place has something which could be better
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: true
    PhilNS Schumann: I had the chance to live in a milder weather country .. and Italy of course
    Bertram Jacobus: but many very good houses are empty while people live on the street etc.
    Pila Mulligan: I suppose milan gets freezing winters?
    Pila Mulligan: yes Bert, to me that is very unreaosnable
    Qt Core: yes, we got 3C nicghts just days ago
    PhilNS Schumann: as much as you can like nice warm weather . the strenght of the fragrances of 4 season changing .. it's worth
    Pila Mulligan: cold :)
    PhilNS Schumann: hahaha .. well . it's not the level of the coldness
    Pila Mulligan: yes, we only have a dry season and a wet season
    PhilNS Schumann: it the lenght of the cold period
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s the point of bad dispensation pila ...
    Qt Core: an abrubt beggining of fall, lost some 15C in a couple days
    PhilNS Schumann: mm today was a perfect day for October almost November
    Qt Core: yes
    Pila Mulligan: sunny?
    PhilNS Schumann: wonderfully sunny
    PhilNS Schumann: rather 18 degrees celsius
    Pila Mulligan: i rememeber hose sunnyautumn days, very nice
    Pila Mulligan: those*
    Pila Mulligan: brisk
    PhilNS Schumann: cold and darkness prevents real outdoor life.. and it lasts way too long in here ...
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. even winter days can be very nice when they are sunny ...
    Bertram Jacobus: in northern germany (where it is often ciold and rainy) they say "there is no bad wheather, there is only bad clothing) (!) ... ;-)
    Pila Mulligan: :(
    PhilNS Schumann: hehe point of view.. again Bert, isn't it ?
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow. yes phins. really true here :-)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Qt Core: nice idea, with the right socks i can stand almost anything ;-)
    PhilNS Schumann: aww I'd prefer to stand fewer things .. but being abe to stay barefoot
    Bertram Jacobus: that´s a point qt ! : i need a nice scarf and a nice cap - then it´s okay for me ... :-)
    Qt Core: i'm rarely barefoot
    PhilNS Schumann: I feel a bit constrained by socks .. and shoes even worse ..
    Qt Core: i have cristal clear memory about wearing shorts and mountain socks up to the knee ven in august while a kid ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Qt Core: i like my feet warm ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: so one can feel protected. when one has made nice experiences like that in the childhood ...
    Bertram Jacobus: "ok" - i´ll leave. thanks for the meeting and may all beings be happy please ! ...
    PhilNS Schumann: nods.. and happy for you too
    Bertram Jacobus: i am a being , so ... i´m included ! ... ;o)
    Qt Core: bye bertram, have fun
    Bertram Jacobus: but ty anyway, for sure ! :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: bye and u2 :-)
    PhilNS Schumann: eh .. you never know.. with all this artificial intelligence around --smiles-- have a good evening Bert
    Pila Mulligan: be Bert
    PhilNS Schumann: what have you been talking about in previous meeting Pila, Qt ?
    Pila Mulligan: it was about how people began contemplative practies
    Qt Core: i was silent about contemplative practice ;-)
    PhilNS Schumann: :-)
    Pila Mulligan: earlier today a German fellow talked about his Hindu practice
    Pila Mulligan: that led to the next discussion
    Pila Mulligan: how people begin
    Pila Mulligan: actually, I have a desk full of files looking at me asking tobe organized :)
    PhilNS Schumann: is there really a very moment one somebody can tell.. "ok..this is the start " ?
    Pila Mulligan: so I better contemplate them for a while
    Pila Mulligan: probably not Phil
    Pila Mulligan: usually people drift into it
    Pila Mulligan: it seems
    PhilNS Schumann: think so too
    Pila Mulligan: I had a certain moment when I began my present pracice
    PhilNS Schumann: as you might be drifting into book shelfing soon I suppose :-)
    Pila Mulligan: but I had been doing odd things like matrial arts before then
    PhilNS Schumann: hahaha .. why odd ?
    Pila Mulligan: well, odd in the sense of not a regular practice -- like odds and ends
    Pila Mulligan: not unusual :)
    PhilNS Schumann: didn't we agree that it's all about point of views ? --laughs--
    Pila Mulligan: yes, my drift needs to be toward RL now:0
    PhilNS Schumann: isn't there Zen and art ofBike tending ?
    PhilNS Schumann: nods
    Pila Mulligan: yep -- Zen gardening -- it can be anyting
    PhilNS Schumann: wish you well Pila
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    Pila Mulligan: bye for now
    PhilNS Schumann: bye
    Qt Core: bye
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you Qt and PHil
    PhilNS Schumann: so have you been long in SL qt ?
    PhilNS Schumann: oh.. and sorry for not speaking in Italian .. we could eventually
    PhilNS Schumann: hahaha
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Qt Core: 11 months
    PhilNS Schumann: funny .. I never speak in Italian in here.. not used to meet Italian
    Qt Core: i found some italians, going searching for them
    Qt Core: but they reminded me about the indian reserve, as they stay in italian sims and enjoy speaking in italian
    PhilNS Schumann: eh ... doing the opposite .. trying to avoid them :-) .. Italians are too easy to find in RL .. while it's interesting to use the power of SL to meet people from any place inthe world
    PhilNS Schumann: eh you're right
    PhilNS Schumann: but I suppose it's also because many Italians cannot speak English
    Qt Core: but sometimes i miss the colour of italian, even the how can we say the higher ratio of dirty words, sometimes
    PhilNS Schumann: hahaha
    PhilNS Schumann: well . you drop into some sims.. and you'll get the high ratio of dirty english words too
    Qt Core: this english is so clean and proper ;-)
    PhilNS Schumann: well. every place has its purpose ...
    PhilNS Schumann: suppose there are for any tastes anyway ...
    PhilNS Schumann: don't know.. Italian places are very similar to the place out of the door.. then it's easier to just walk out of the door
    Qt Core: with so many millions subscribers it is sure
    PhilNS Schumann: mm it's said that subscribers are millions, but real active users are much less
    Qt Core: while the campers in other sims doesn't remind me about anything the ones i see in a sim with Milan Duomo square (and surrounding area) remind me so much about stoned people ;-)
    PhilNS Schumann: hahahah
    PhilNS Schumann: well
    PhilNS Schumann: because you suppose that they are there watching the video while they camp
    PhilNS Schumann: hope for them they left home and went somewhere meantime
    Qt Core: the avs, not the people behind them
    PhilNS Schumann: the avis. well those are just pixels after all lol
    PhilNS Schumann: but true
    PhilNS Schumann: getting into camping places looks like getting into zombies
    PhilNS Schumann: well .. time I log off
    PhilNS Schumann: ti auguro una buona serata Qt
    PhilNS Schumann: bye
    Qt Core: buona notte
    Qt Core: ciao
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