2009.10.30 01:00 - Yogic psychology

    Table of contents
    No headers

    Wol Euler was guardian for this session.


    Bolonath Crystal: hallo wol :)

    Wol Euler: hello bolo, good morning

    Bolonath Crystal: my first 1am session :) very peaceful

    Wol Euler: they often are :)

    Wol Euler: I'm sorry t have missed your second theme session last night

    Bolonath Crystal: np, we will probably have a third one

    Wol Euler: good :)

    Wol Euler: raeding the logs is somehow different to being here

    Bolonath Crystal: sure

    Wol Euler: even though people who don't know SL might say "it's all just reading"

    Bolonath Crystal: hm. of course it is just reading, but by being here ppl have a possibility to give a direct feed back

    Bolonath Crystal: asking questions...

    Wol Euler nods

    Bolonath Crystal: give comments

    Wol Euler: interactive, not read-only :)

    Bolonath Crystal: yes :)

    Bolonath Crystal: we talked about raja yoga

    Wol Euler: mmm?

    Bolonath Crystal: advaita vedanta is a philosophy. to come to some results one needs a practical technique

    Bolonath Crystal: otherwise it just remains 'wishful thinking'

    Bolonath Crystal: so i introduced raja yoga as a method to realise what philosophers only talk about


    Bolonath Crystal: wb wol. did i scare you away? ;)

    Wol Euler: hello again.

    Wol Euler: hah.

    Wol Euler: crashed, and couldn't get back in.

    Bolonath Crystal: you look funny. i can only see your clothes, not your body

    Wol Euler: I'm on holiday, very slow internet connection in the hotel.

    Bolonath Crystal: oic

    Wol Euler: that's probably the reason I crashed, just not enough bandwidth

    Bolonath Crystal: what a pitty :(

    Wol Euler: you were telling me about a kind of yoga?

    Bolonath Crystal: yes, raja yoga. you heard about it before?

    Wol Euler: no, but that means nothing as I am very poorly informed :)

    Wol Euler: what is it about?

    Bolonath Crystal: like all yogas it is a way of self-realisation

    Bolonath Crystal: the most important thing in raja yoga is meditation, but it involves many points of view

    Bolonath Crystal: a raja yogi tries to gain control over mental processes which usually happen unnoticed

    Wol Euler nods

    Bolonath Crystal: you can call it yogic psychology

    Wol Euler: hehehh

    Bolonath Crystal: yesterday we found out, that raja yoga methods are at least in parts very similar to buddhist practise

    Wol Euler: when you speak of controlling mental processes, what does that mean? Stilling the monkey mind, or controlling the ego?


    Bolonath Crystal: well, both. if we percept something, for example, then many processes happen subconsciuosly, before the perception reaches our consciousness. in raja yoga the yogi tries to see deeper inside the mind to know what exactly happens there

    Bolonath Crystal: with this knowledge the raja yogi tries to avoid unwanted reactions, before they happen

    Wol Euler: interesting.

    Wol Euler: that sounds like watching the mind rather than "clearing" it.

    Bolonath Crystal: watching is a very important part of it, yes

    Bolonath Crystal: it is quite similar to the vipassana meditation in buddhism

    Bolonath Crystal: anyway i think, buddha would have been a great raja yogi or advaita vedantin, if advaita vedanta would have existed during buddhas time

    Wol Euler: :)

    Wol Euler: is htat generally true, perhaps?

    Wol Euler: that enlightened beings are generally enilightened rather than specifically? :)

    Bolonath Crystal: hehe, what do i know about general truth? ;))

    Wol Euler: well, yes :)

    Bolonath Crystal: but i think you are right

    Bolonath Crystal: imo enlightened beings don't care much about -isms

    Wol Euler nods

    Wol Euler: truths that work outrank theories that ought to be correct.

    Bolonath Crystal: sure!

    Bolonath Crystal: swami sivananda used to say that 1 gram of practise is more important than 10 tons of theory

    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Bolonath Crystal: but sometimes people need lots of tons of theory to come to 1 gram of practise

    Wol Euler: yes, I agree, they seem to need to see it proven in theory before they will risk trying somehting

    Bolonath Crystal: but that is something very typical 'western'. in india the yoga disciples don't expect that. they just rely on their guru

    Wol Euler: as long as they get to do that practice, though, then why not have both?

    Bolonath Crystal: true

    Wol Euler: I think we are conditioned to think of truth as something outside of our perception, something that has to be explained from above

    Wol Euler: anything that I can perceive must be too small to be a Truth

    Wol Euler: so we hesitate to trust our experiences, to listen to our bodies

    Bolonath Crystal: truth is truth. explanations can be right or wrong. but in any way any explanation only gives us a glimpse of a certain part of truth. imo experience is much more important

    Wol Euler nods

    Wol Euler: which is what we try to do here (ideally :)

    Wol Euler: why Pema keeps saying "try it and see for yoursself"

    Bolonath Crystal: :)

    Bolonath Crystal: as far as i know buddha said about the same :)

    Wol Euler smiles


    Bolonath Crystal: i don't like people just believe me and thats it. i prefer them becoming curious and start experimenting

    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Wol Euler: which in a way brings us back to wanting guarantees.

    Bolonath Crystal: does it?

    Wol Euler: the guru offers a guarantee: this is absolutely true, because I am right and I say so.

    Bolonath Crystal: oic

    Wol Euler: (simplifying things slightly :)

    Wol Euler: once people have that, they feel able to test things

    Bolonath Crystal: but that only works if a guru isn't simply a teacher. he must be a living example

    Wol Euler nods.

    Wol Euler: I don't mean that they are liars or exaggerators, but that there is no way to speak of *my* experience that will let *you* feel it too.

    Wol Euler: so they say "I did this, and that happened because of it."

    Bolonath Crystal: if a teacher expresses a state of deep inner peace, ppl percept that and like to reach the same condition

    Bolonath Crystal: words alone wouldn't be enough

    Wol Euler: right

    Wol Euler: this is the dilemma that I think many Western people fall into. We want proof in words of someting that cannot be expressed in words

    Bolonath Crystal nods

    Wol Euler: many of my friends are curious about meditation, but won't try it because they don't undesratnd how it can work, and will not "risk" doing it without that understanding

    Wol Euler: what is the risk? feeling foolish, wasting time?

    Bolonath Crystal: hm, what are they afraid of?

    Bolonath Crystal: the worst case is that nothing happens

    Wol Euler: mmmmmm, from our point of view yes :) From theirs, and I can think back to myself about 20 years ago, the worst that can happen is that I feel like a fool

    Wol Euler: or fear that others think that I am a fool

    Wol Euler: for doing somehting like this that isn't proven :)

    Bolonath Crystal: that can easily be avoided by simply meditating secretly, without telling anybody

    Bolonath Crystal: i remember my first experiments in meditation. i was sitting there and thinking something like 'hm... so... and now?'

    Bolonath Crystal: but i kept trying until it worked

    Wol Euler: :)


    Bolonath Crystal: after a while i found out, that really something happened. not during my meditation sittings, but between. i became calmer, more concentrated. and as my ability to concentrate grew, my meditation got deeper step by step

    Wol Euler nods and smiles.

    Bolonath Crystal: oh well, time to go. i have to get some things settled today, because i like to visit a friend in switzerland over weekend

    Wol Euler: oh, very nice!

    Wol Euler: thank you, bolonath, this has been a very good conversation.

    Bolonath Crystal: thank you, too. and please enjoy your holiday :)

    Wol Euler: I hope you have a good weekend in der Schweiz :)

    Bolonath Crystal: ty :)

    Wol Euler: bye for now

    Bolonath Crystal: om shanti

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core