2011.04.24 19:00 - Surfaces and Depths

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Pema Pera: hi Calvino!
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Pema .. good to see you
    Pema Pera: same here!
    Pema Pera: Quiet Sunday night, so far?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, it often picks up steadily
    Pema Pera: like in a neigborhood cafe . . .
    Pema Pera: and as soon as you spoke :-)
    Pema Pera: hi Ewan!
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Ewan :)
    Pema Pera: Good to see you again, Ewan!
    Ewan Bonham: Thanks, Pema...and Cal..
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm tempted to try the new "meadow" look ... how about it?
    Pema Pera: sure!
    Pema Pera: by all means -- I read about it, but haven't seen it yet
    Pema Pera: was out of email contact for a whole week (!) while at the PaB retreat in Assisi, Italy
    Pema Pera: oh, nice ! ! !
    Ewan Bonham: How was that Pema?
    Pema Pera: what a difference it makes, to sit in a meadow . . . .
    Pema Pera: SL is really amazing, in its immersive qualities
    Ewan Bonham: Ndding..
    Pema Pera: and Ewan, as for Assisi, yes, a very special place
    Pema Pera: hi Susan!
    Ewan Bonham: listening..
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Susan...:)
    Calvino Rabeni nods and waves
    Pema Pera: I just mentioned that I came back to the real real world of internet, Susan
    Pema Pera: I was out of cyber contact for a whole week, for the first time in four years
    Pema Pera: I should do that more often
    Pema Pera: it was a very relaxing experience
    iwandertoo Resident: :)
    Calvino Rabeni smiles ... I imagine it could be :)
    iwandertoo Resident: where, what were you doing?
    Pema Pera: perhaps once every few months?
    Pema Pera: I was attending the RL PaB retreat in Italy
    Pema Pera: in Assisi
    Pema Pera: quite a magical place
    iwandertoo Resident: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: That sounds marvelous Pema
    Calvino Rabeni: I like the idea of once a week "non-cyber" sabbath type day
    Pema Pera: the landscape, the history, and . . . . the food was "out of this world" :-)
    iwandertoo Resident: smiles
    Pema Pera: what a nice idea, Calvino, a cyber sabbath -- on the seventh day thou shalt not read email !
    Ewan Bonham: Lol...
    Pema Pera: actually, I've been experimenting with trying not to read email before noon each day -- I'm succeeding about half of the time
    Pema Pera: it already makes a big difference in quality to my day
    Ewan Bonham: At first I would be confronted with my own trepedations of what I was missing etc..
    Pema Pera: like a "tweet scale" version of a sabbath?
    Pema Pera: a few hours each morning?
    Calvino Rabeni: The idea partly is to reclaim one's deeper self from the trappings of "worldly" involvements, that is, functional and mechanistic thinking
    Pema Pera: yes!!
    Pema Pera: and Susan, thanks for joining us as a guardian -- just read about it, welcome!
    iwandertoo Resident: many thanks
    Pema Pera: hi Paradise!
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Para..:)
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya pema ewan ..susan cal :)

    Ewan Bonham: Hi Lucinda..
    Pema Pera: I've been thinking of you -- memories of our Malta retreat: I just attended the PaB retreat in Assisi, Italy, where Mick came as well -- Mick and I often reminisced about our Malta retreat in a somewhat similar setting, a year ago!
    Pema Pera: Hi Lucinda!
    Pema Pera: (you = Paradise)
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening Cinda :)
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Paradise Tennant: smiles yes was looking at pictures of malta this weekend .. :)
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Steve..
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi all
    Paradise Tennant: how was assisi :)
    Pema Pera: hi Steve!
    Paradise Tennant: hiya stev gtsy :)
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    Lucinda Lavender: good evening cal, Pema, Susan, Paradise, steve,Ewan:)
    Pema Pera: Oh, Assisi was great in many ways, such a special place
    Pema Pera: and I just started to mention the food . . . clearly the best meals we've had in any RL PaB retreat that I can remember
    Pema Pera: we had great food in Nova Scotia, last summer, but this was even better . . . .
    Pema Pera: (plus with wine every lunch and dinner, Italian style :-)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles sounds pretty yummy :)
    Lucinda Lavender: very...
    stevenaia Michinaga: yea food is wonderful in so many ways
    Pema Pera: the place we stayed is an example of a new trend in Italian tourism
    Pema Pera: it is called "agritourismo"
    Lucinda Lavender: eating food of the area?
    Pema Pera: loosely it means tourism to the country side where you get served the local produce
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: often from their own garden!
    Lucinda Lavender: wine also?
    Pema Pera: as far as herbs and main vegetables go
    Lucinda Lavender: nods
    Pema Pera: wine probably from a local winery
    Pema Pera: not from the backyard :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: such a treat
    Pema Pera: they did have an olive grove
    Paradise Tennant: tasty and full of rich italian sunshine :))
    Pema Pera: so many of our conversations were conducted strolling between the olive trees
    Lucinda Lavender: I like the mossy ground here tonight
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at storm where ever he is :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: curious what some of your topics were Pema
    Lucinda Lavender: as you walked and talked:)
    Pema Pera: oh, many . . . . let's see
    Pema Pera: staying with the trees, we did some exercises/explorations that involved the olive orchard
    Pema Pera: in which we went from sitting to standing
    Pema Pera: considering ourselves to stand like trees
    Lucinda Lavender: wb susan:)
    Pema Pera: and in between the standing silent periods we sat down but then we tried to "talk as if we were trees talking to each other"
    Pema Pera: continuing the same contemplative atmosphere
    Pema Pera: hi Hokon!
    Lucinda Lavender: :)...
    Paradise Tennant: rooted in the now :))) swaying in awareness :)))
    Hokon Cazalet: hiya
    Paradise Tennant: hiya hokon :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Hokon Cazalet: ???
    Pema Pera: actually, sitting here around the pond on grass rather than on marble makes a similar difference as being in an orchard
    Pema Pera: yes, Para! :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Hokon, Steve !
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Pema Pera: thinking of your name, it was paradise in more than one way, from the food to the garden aspects :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: imagine so!
    Pema Pera wondering whether there was wine in paradise, or whether that came after the fall . . . .
    Pema Pera: actually, it is getting close to lunch here in Tokyo, I have to get going . . . . great seeing you all (it is Monday here already)
    Lucinda Lavender: Luci is remembering something about the egyptians and Beer..and it being pretty old
    Pema Pera: yes, ten thousands years I believe
    Lucinda Lavender: Have a great luch Pema
    Pema Pera: thanks, Luci!
    Hokon Cazalet: bye pema

    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Pema Pera: bfn
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy pema
    Paradise Tennant: smiles and wasves
    stevenaia Michinaga: was there a RL reteat that just ended?
    Paradise Tennant: yes one in assisi italy :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: are the pictures posted?
    Paradise Tennant: hmm don
    Paradise Tennant: t know :)
    Paradise Tennant: but soon I would imagine
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: that will be nice to see
    stevenaia Michinaga: who else was there?
    Paradise Tennant: pema . eos ..mic :)
    Paradise Tennant: will get you the list
    Paradise Tennant: retreats are kind of like camping
    Lucinda Lavender: so happy to sit in a green place today
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, campfire conversations
    Paradise Tennant: your first day you .. canoe .. run around set up camp and then when dinner is done .. and you are looking for your next activity .there isn't one ;) just the sky ..the lake ..the sound of the trees
    stevenaia Michinaga: like this
    Lucinda Lavender: yesterday my cat fell out the second story window...and hung by one paw but managed to pull herself up and get back in the window:)
    iwandertoo Resident: and stars...
    Paradise Tennant: heart attack
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at iwandertoo yes big night star filled skies
    Lucinda Lavender: nice camping image
    iwandertoo Resident: :)
    Hokon Cazalet ??? stars
    Lucinda Lavender: moving outdoors
    Paradise Tennant: no worst for wear luci
    Lucinda Lavender: not at all
    Paradise Tennant: your kitten :) will be shy of the window ledge
    Lucinda Lavender: hoping
    iwandertoo Resident: cats are amazing...
    Hokon Cazalet: cats are awesome
    Lucinda Lavender: i was amazed yes
    Paradise Tennant: yes they are grace apaw :)
    Lucinda Lavender: hanging by one paw!
    Hokon Cazalet: if i got reborn and couldnt be human, i'd be a cat
    Calvino Rabeni: I have a young one also, that seems to like sitting right through the fence from a couple of fierce-looking dogs ... while her litter mate wouldn't do that no matter what
    Lucinda Lavender: claims some space...
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, druth :)
    Lucinda Lavender: CAl do you have one or two now?
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Hokon Cazalet: hi druth =)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Druth
    druth Vlodovic: hi guys
    Calvino Rabeni: 2 cats
    Lucinda Lavender: yay!
    Lucinda Lavender: hio druth!
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya druth :)
    druth Vlodovic: what's the topic?
    Calvino Rabeni: a favorite one .. cats
    Hokon Cazalet: ???
    Monarchy Republic: hi peeps :)
    Lucinda Lavender: dinner for me...
    Hokon Cazalet: hi monarchy (i like your name btw ???)
    Hokon Cazalet: bye lucinda

    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya monarchy
    Paradise Tennant: waves at lucinda ;)
    Monarchy Republic: thankies ...got good vibes instantoniously :)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Monarchy ... welcome to sit in .. we do tell visitors, the conversation here is recorded during these meetings.
    Calvino Rabeni: we have a web site at http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
    Monarchy Republic: no problem :) ..i only try to put good vibrations in the ether ..they are here for quite a long time ..whispers ;)
    Monarchy Republic: whispers ..yes ..i read about Kira ..i know the Goekna too
    druth Vlodovic: the goekna?
    Monarchy Republic: SN Goekna ..Visipanna retreats
    Hokon Cazalet: brb
    Monarchy Republic: hb Hokon - whispers
    druth Vlodovic: shh!
    druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure what we're doing, but we're doing it silently
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: proposals can change that too
    druth Vlodovic: anyway, I started work on the calendar I asked about on sunday, you can look at it and tell me what you think
    Calvino Rabeni: Where's that, druth?
    druth Vlodovic: I'm doing a calendar of events at PaB, it's on the wiki under "events"
    druth Vlodovic: so far only one entry
    Calvino Rabeni: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Events/Calendar
    Calvino Rabeni: I like the non-googly classic look of it .. thanks
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice Druth
    druth Vlodovic: sort of a work in progress, you'll have to tell me if you want something included
    iwandertoo Resident: thanks for doing this, Druth
    druth Vlodovic: it's all just a trick to make people keep me in the loop :)
    Calvino Rabeni smiles
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Monarchy Republic: its good to be loopy ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: Saturday was the first warm bright spring day .. it seemed the whole city was out in the parks and cafes

    Hokon Cazalet returns
    druth Vlodovic: wb
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, night all
    druth Vlodovic: 'night steve
    Hokon Cazalet: byebyes
    Calvino Rabeni: Good night stevenaia
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Calvino Rabeni: one of the coffee house topics was "who are our greatest living philosophers?"
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite stev:) sweet dreams
    Calvino Rabeni: afraid I drew a blank on that
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Monarchy Republic: nn
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm good topic ...
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe it's hard to tell until some history passed
    Hokon Cazalet: yeah
    Calvino Rabeni: but the man I was talking to said, Buckminister Fuller had inspired him to a career as an inventor
    Monarchy Republic: the stone ;)
    Paradise Tennant: would vote for george carlin if he were alive ;)
    Hokon Cazalet: only one name comes to my mind, but i think he'll end up being a footnote, chalmers
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe paradise =)
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm one of my favorites too :)
    Calvino Rabeni: so that seemed like being affected in a real way
    Monarchy Republic: what is the most inspirational 'thing ' youve ever experienced ...not perso or idea ,,just the sense or mood of that thing ..
    Monarchy Republic: like a sunrise ..etc
    Hokon Cazalet: music for me
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm good question :)
    Paradise Tennant: blinking on it
    Calvino Rabeni thinks:  person, place or thing ... ?
    Calvino Rabeni: things have a lower status I guess
    Calvino Rabeni: not sure if a building is a place or a thing
    Paradise Tennant: hmm would have to say watching how my dad .. lived his life ... not him as a person but there was a grace that was very big there ...
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Calvino Rabeni: I've liked some desert river canyons quite a bit
    Monarchy Republic: :)
    Paradise Tennant: yes sometimes place is magic
    Calvino Rabeni: with the life forms that live there
    Paradise Tennant: smiles and quietly says thank you for the company and the conversation .. :) namaste my friends :))
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    druth Vlodovic: have fun paradise
    Calvino Rabeni: Good night Paradise :)
    Monarchy Republic: yep ...theres people that inspire you and give ~YOU the confidence ...because they are inspirational people, but they are actually struggling too ..like a swan ....kicking like mad ...but looking serene on top :)
    Monarchy Republic: nn Paradise :)
    Calvino Rabeni nods at Monarchy
    Calvino Rabeni: we do a lot of underwater kicking
    Calvino Rabeni: the results are pretty marvelous
    Calvino Rabeni: functional and aesthetic and kind to others
    Monarchy Republic: its kinda fun to feel like water currents through the toes though ;)
    Hokon Cazalet: actually i know what it is for me, but its not appropiate for a public audience (also can get easily misconstrued)
    Hokon Cazalet: yup calvino =)
    Hokon Cazalet: i like that image monarchy =)

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Hokon.. I was thinking of some easily misconstrued unmentionables yesterday :)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Calvino Rabeni: One definition of a friend, I have heard, is someone you can jump into the river with and know what happens under the surface
    Monarchy Republic: the best way is to make them sound like an accident ..then you can deny responsibility ..gigles
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe monarchy
    Monarchy Republic: mind you ...i find i can do that without trying :s
    Monarchy Republic: :)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    druth Vlodovic: I have to go
    druth Vlodovic: have fun all
    Calvino Rabeni nods, take care
    Monarchy Republic: nn druth :)
    Monarchy Republic: i need to find a pillow ..peeps ..eyelids heavy ..so glad to come eventually ..and meet you peeps ...id be honoured if i could repeat it sometime ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Come by any time Monarchy
    Calvino Rabeni: well specifically, meetings are at 1 and 7 AM and PM every day
    Monarchy Republic: ty :)
    Monarchy Republic: have a great E ..Monday ;)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe you too =)
    iwandertoo Resident: best to everyone.
    Monarchy Republic: hugs
    Ewan Bonham: Bye for now..and thanks ..:)
    Calvino Rabeni: See you later, Ewan, take care
    Calvino Rabeni: I wonder if my readling list shows seasonal variations or other trends I'm not aware of
    Calvino Rabeni: or whether people of the future will "data-mine" their lifelong media habits and make something of the trends
    Hokon Cazalet: ug facebook really sucks sometimes, trying to write out longer comments
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Calvino Rabeni: Facebook .. hmmm, .. it seems a little rusty around the fringes
    Calvino Rabeni: Not as aggressive as LinkedIn at spamming one's "friend"-list
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Calvino Rabeni: Lately though I'm getting some fatigue from social-media site reading ...
    Hokon Cazalet: yeah
    Hokon Cazalet: i can see that
    Hokon Cazalet: i try to avoid those sites as much as possible
    Calvino Rabeni: it's tempting to respond to the idea or statement that is there
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Calvino Rabeni: but there's doubt in my mind whether it actually amounts to a "conversation"
    Hokon Cazalet: yeah
    Hokon Cazalet: ive noticed i do that in sl, and it becomes more people barking at each other (not in a mean way, just animals expressing themselves blindly)

    Hokon Cazalet: i know freud is discredited, but the internet definitely exposes people's Id =)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, well I know, that doesn't seem too meaningful, beyond the raw experience of doing the barking ... there doesn't need to be a record for all eternity in humanity's collective memory
    Hokon Cazalet: lol
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Hokon Cazalet: omg
    Hokon Cazalet: people of the future will look at that stuff and go "wtf was wrong with people in the 21st century?!?!?!"
    Calvino Rabeni: it's easy serial anonymity that seems to bring it out
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Hokon Cazalet: and lack of body language and being confronted by an-other as a face
    Calvino Rabeni: that is .. taking statements without the presense of persons
    Calvino Rabeni: no relationships that last
    Calvino Rabeni: therefore the interaction is just like random bumping together in a moment
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Calvino Rabeni: and the significance little more than on the level of shock value
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Hokon Cazalet: i see that a lot at noob spots and philosophy house
    Hokon Cazalet: its all shock value
    Hokon Cazalet: (even though nobody is saying anything new hehe)
    Calvino Rabeni: its kind of relational porno
    Hokon Cazalet: lol
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Hokon Cazalet: verbal porn
    Calvino Rabeni: Even if it's somewhat intellectual appearing
    Calvino Rabeni: for instance, I think the actor Charlie Sheen has serious mental issues
    Calvino Rabeni: but his acting out and problems become just a spectacle
    Calvino Rabeni: which is the attitude of the audience
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Calvino Rabeni: Almost a mob mentality
    Calvino Rabeni: and even on an intellectual or humanistic social web site
    Calvino Rabeni: it gets used in a certain way
    Calvino Rabeni: it gets objectified
    Calvino Rabeni: like just an object on which to hang some other statement the person wants to make
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Hokon Cazalet: (hehe i was just writing about problems with objectivity on facebook)
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm, objectivity in what sense?
    Calvino Rabeni: in some ways its a virtue, in others, a vice
    Hokon Cazalet: oh that a proposition is true if and only if it corresponds to the facts, that subjectivity must be removed from all propositions to render them true; works well in the natural sciences, but i see a lot of problems treating objectivity more than an ideal or an appaerance of things, and treating it as a metaphysical concept
    Hokon Cazalet: no objectivity would mean no consciousness, so rejecting objectivity completely isn't an option
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, or forgetting that humans are not objects
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Hokon Cazalet: which is something that some are doing now, using things like neurology or neuropsychology as a way to treat humans as just tinker toys
    Hokon Cazalet: when natural science isnt metaphysical
    Calvino Rabeni: hmmm.. this would be interesting to pursue, .. unfortunately I hear the dinner bell.
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe me too :??
    Hokon Cazalet: i got turkey below
    Calvino Rabeni: I think it's okay to correlate all those perspectives
    Calvino Rabeni: but not let one dominate
    Hokon Cazalet: well what i think is treating objectivity as a way to view things, as a mode of appearances; when its treated as something beyond appearances and as something metaphysical, that's when we get problems
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks for the discussion, take care
    Hokon Cazalet: you too =)
    Hokon Cazalet: so id agree =)
    Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
    Hokon Cazalet: turkey!
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye ( calvino heads toward the aroma in the air )
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe

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