2011.12.11 19:00 - Navigating Celestial Currents: We ARE the Crossroads

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Hi multi!
Calvino Rabeni: Fine, except I have bad lag
Multiverse1 Resident: hmmm a bit myself but overalll not bad
Multiverse1 Resident: thinking of switching to the new phoenix viewer, can't wait for the bugs to experience with that!
Multiverse1 Resident: bugs, not many in sl, like 1st life that is.
Multiverse1 Resident: If this were rl we would have thousands of real ones amonst us
Multiverse1 Resident: You've been in sl awhile. Seems you are an explorer of human nature.
Calvino Rabeni: oh yes, that's a small part of it!
Calvino Rabeni: I meant about the bugs :)
Calvino Rabeni: How about you .. have you been here to these meetings before?
Multiverse1 Resident: yes about a dozen or so.
Multiverse1 Resident: I also participate in rl similar meetings
Multiverse1 Resident: second tyme I arrived with no-one else here at the start
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Hi Paradise !
Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Paradise
Paradise Tennant: hiya cal multiverse .. stev is on his way too :)
Calvino Rabeni: You are right multi, human nature is a kind of multiverse worth exploring
Multiverse1 Resident: all nature is thus methinx
Multiverse1 Resident: we are a cog
Multiverse1 Resident: mostly we think we are supreme amounst nature
Multiverse1 Resident: amoungst?
Multiverse1 Resident: My typist is flailing me at the present
Calvino Rabeni: Flailing :)
Multiverse1 Resident: sounded like it fit
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: We're like a crossroads or market where many life forms cross and meet
Multiverse1 Resident: hmm
Multiverse1 Resident: the tollmakers yes
Paradise Tennant: brb need to check on the dog's soup
Multiverse1 Resident: toolmakers
Calvino Rabeni: In a sense, though, it could be an occasion for humility, to realize that the human brain is one of the most complex objects known and in a way enfolds the rest of the universe partly within it
Calvino Rabeni: that's a lot of involvement and dependence
Multiverse1 Resident: known at the present spacetyme yes
Calvino Rabeni: yes "known" universe
Multiverse1 Resident: dependence on our envirorment after all
Calvino Rabeni: the more intelligent we get the more that dependence is understood
Multiverse1 Resident: The Earth is still flat in my book
Multiverse1 Resident: most do not see the curve of the horizon
Multiverse1 Resident: too involved in Society as a whole. This morning there was talk of a plan for humanity.
Multiverse1 Resident: All day I have sought this plan, and found that groups the world over have made plans for me
Multiverse1 Resident: I merely participate as needed, and steer in other directions
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Stevie :)
stevenaia Michinaga: evening
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles ..just cooling now .. the dog's eyes are bright :) hiya stev :)
Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Stevie
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi CAl, PAradise, Multiverse1
Calvino Rabeni: You steer in other directions ... encountering other travelers?
Multiverse1 Resident: food is anticipated in the Paradise household?
Multiverse1 Resident: I steer as the wind will take me. I prefer to follow an ambling path
Multiverse1 Resident: Hi San
Paradise Tennant: smiles for the dog :) he likes soup and it is ready just too hot to eat
Paradise Tennant: hiya san :)
Calvino Rabeni: I prefer that sometimes too
stevenaia Michinaga: waves to skating San
Santoshima Resident: fun
stevenaia Michinaga: quite an entrance
--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: smiles very graceful :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it looks like the two pose balls are attached to an invisible sleigh over tehre
stevenaia Michinaga: or something
Multiverse1 Resident: A new fruit from a new tree
Multiverse1 Resident: to me from here
Multiverse1 Resident: pink and blue fruit
Santoshima Resident: sorry to be late ... what were you talking about?
Calvino Rabeni: Normally I'd think twice about leaping on a poseball in Second Life, but this one has the Wol seal of approval
Santoshima Resident: :))
Calvino Rabeni: The topic could be steered in a number of directions
Calvino Rabeni: compatible with exploring human nature in its different dimensions
stevenaia Michinaga: any takers?
Calvino Rabeni: Yee ha, steve and san
Santoshima Resident: oh, this is wol and aggers skating device
Santoshima Resident: they skated in tandem
Paradise Tennant: smiles like that one .. how does one do it, explore human nature in different dimensions?
Calvino Rabeni: good question Paradise
stevenaia Michinaga: do I need skates?
Santoshima Resident: ( nah)
Paradise Tennant: nice !!!
stevenaia Michinaga: isn't SL another dimension?
stevenaia Michinaga: aren't dreams?
Multiverse1 Resident: no sl is not a separate dimension to me, it is part of my quite current life experience
Calvino Rabeni: Multi here suggested (well actually I took it as a suggestion) that "ambling" could be one way to do it
Santoshima Resident: i'm not so good at steering
Santoshima Resident: can you take over, stev?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, it's male dom
Santoshima Resident: ty
stevenaia Michinaga: I'm getting dizzy
Multiverse1 Resident: I'm always dizzy
Santoshima Resident: me too
Calvino Rabeni: me three :)
stevenaia Michinaga: so can someone from here enter another there?
Multiverse1 Resident: everything but here is there
Calvino Rabeni: We live at the crossroads at the center of a merry-go-round, so it shouldn't be too hard, methinks
Multiverse1 Resident: why are we the center?
stevenaia Michinaga: so each choice is a gateway?
Multiverse1 Resident: good description of choice stevie
Calvino Rabeni: that makes sense
Calvino Rabeni: maybe some of them loop around and orbit a similar place
Calvino Rabeni: while others are more divergent
stevenaia Michinaga: like skating in circles
Multiverse1 Resident: hehe or slipping on ice
Calvino Rabeni: yes though in nature there actually aren't any true circles or lines
Calvino Rabeni: but lots of chaotic orbits
Multiverse1 Resident: the flow of water in a stream
Calvino Rabeni: mmhmmm, turbulent flow

Editor's Note:  This notion of stream and flow can be taken both metaphorically and literally.  Here are a couple of links to some science about chaotic orbits.  The first time I heard about this I thought it was really "trippy" -- contrary to my educated expectations, it appears possible to navigate to nearly anywhere using (in principle) zero energy expenditure, if one is willing to take the time.

• Navigating Celestial Currents (Google search - see first article)
• Interplanetary Transport Network (Wikipedia)

The metaphoric leap is that this is a principle applying not just to gravitation but to the "inner space" of human affairs, and on many levels of scale.  If so then we have a nice physical example of Wu Wei, the Taoist concept of natural action, with its subtle notion of choice-in-action as action that follows the natural way of things (Tao) in alignment with the "natural joints" that the world presents.  This principle has found many intuitive expressions; for example in the poetry of William Blake, "Improvement makes straight roads; but the crooked roads without improvement are the roads of genius".

stevenaia Michinaga: isn't there one timeline in each universe?
Multiverse1 Resident: people streams
stevenaia Michinaga: brb
Santoshima Resident: ovoidal, not circular?
Santoshima Resident: like in Haida art
Multiverse1 Resident: depends on your camera view
Calvino Rabeni: I was looking at some of that yesterday
Calvino Rabeni: Raven and I think, polar bear or bear
Santoshima Resident: yes, Raven and Bear
Calvino Rabeni: just noticing that they were more anatomically articulate than I at first thought
Santoshima Resident: very interesting, huh
Santoshima Resident: and creatures within creatures
Multiverse1 Resident: back to the bugs around us then, and the mites inside that help us maintain our humanity
Calvino Rabeni: they sure do
Multiverse1 Resident: Why are we the crossroads Cal?
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Thoreau and I think Emerson wrote essays on ambling, or maybe I would call it conscious walking
Multiverse1 Resident: I would refer to it as unconsious walking, ambling that is. Let me wander where I may.
Calvino Rabeni: I like the distinction between awareness and consciousness, which aren't necessarily the same
Multiverse1 Resident: Yes I am aware of my consciousness, but not conscious of my awareness
Paradise Tennant: blinking
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: feel as though we should spend the next hour looking at those aspects
Santoshima Resident: hmmm, good question
Paradise Tennant: I am consciously eating gummy bears yummy ones from berlin .. not sure .. how that is different from being aware I am eating gummy bears :)
Paradise Tennant: happily the gummy bears are neither aware or conscious :)))
Santoshima Resident: :))
Santoshima Resident: snort
Multiverse1 Resident: it's a physical thing you have described, not an intangible
Calvino Rabeni: the thing is, the words are used every which way, so it's good to think about what one means by the word, rather than what the word means
Calvino Rabeni: like driving, not paying attention, but managing to be aware of what is needed to see along the way, that's aware but not conscious
Multiverse1 Resident: yes meaning is in the eye of the viewer
Calvino Rabeni: and awareness is broader than what people mean by "conscious-of"
Calvino Rabeni: which isn't the same thing as the abstract notion of "consciousness", which may refer to something broader still - probably does but it's hard to know just what
Multiverse1 Resident: you need the definition to proceed
Calvino Rabeni: to proceed with talking about an experience?
Multiverse1 Resident: not really, but it sounded good
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: experiences arrive and are lived through,  "unlanguaged"
Multiverse1 Resident: like that word
Calvino Rabeni: and in retrospect it's easier to remember the languaged facets
Multiverse1 Resident: instinct?
Paradise Tennant: oooo yes like unlanguaged !
Calvino Rabeni: perhaps because of the habit of recall has been schooled
Calvino Rabeni: it is handy to let words be like a google index of past experiences
Calvino Rabeni: but not everything is in that particular index
Calvino Rabeni: a lot of experiences are in different indexes
Multiverse1 Resident: Like the Chevy Nova in America. Try to sell it in Mexico and it's a lemon
Calvino Rabeni: Because it means coincidentally "no go"
Multiverse1 Resident: And consciousness to an ape
Multiverse1 Resident: unlanguaged of course
Santoshima Resident: "What is spoken, and in no language, what is said." – martin heidegger
Santoshima Resident: wrong quote
Santoshima Resident: "what is spoken is never, and in no language, what is said."
Calvino Rabeni: I wouldn't so easily assume the "of course" about whether anmal's experiences are language-like (or humans' are animal-like)
Paradise Tennant: blinking ..know the dog thinks in words .. knows a big number of words .. but likely also thinks in smells and pictures :)
Multiverse1 Resident: I would, to me it's an evolutionary scale
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and in wiggles
Calvino Rabeni: we all think in wiggles
Santoshima Resident: we are a of type animal, are we not?
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Santoshima Resident: (& some of us can type, and some cannot)
Multiverse1 Resident: I cannot
stevenaia Michinaga: funny, san
Multiverse1 Resident: I peck like a bird
Multiverse1 Resident: like bobbing for apples
--BELL--

Multiverse1 Resident: you are welcome,  bell
Paradise Tennant: has a mental picture of us all having a big wiggle :) and it communicating .. wigglyness :))
Multiverse1 Resident: yes the crossroads of our wiggling
Calvino Rabeni: I remember that TED video about the divided brain ... one point in it was that the functions of the left brain are the ones that decide the way that intelligence is defined .. so therefore of course, it gives its own way of knowing more importance
Calvino Rabeni: naturally perhaps, because it understands itself, and organizes the human world for its own convenience, providing appropriate tools
Multiverse1 Resident: like skating for the 1st tyme. That research has been expanded and includes sublties that cannot be measured currently with any degree of understanding as a generality
stevenaia Michinaga: like an internal conversation with itself?
Calvino Rabeni: yes, right, in a way it does get to be a tight orbit
Multiverse1 Resident: choices?
Multiverse1 Resident: instincts?
Calvino Rabeni: although at any point in the orbit there are branch points and choice points
Santoshima Resident: Cal, do you mean the video of Jill Bolte Taylor?
Multiverse1 Resident: flash thought on that one
Calvino Rabeni: Not that one .. just a sec
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.ted.com/talks/iain_mcgilchrist_the_divided_brain.html
Santoshima Resident: ty
Santoshima Resident: was anyone hearing my speakers?
Santoshima Resident: sorry if so
Calvino Rabeni: I didn't
Multiverse1 Resident: no just mine
Calvino Rabeni: A related question is along the lines of "what are brains for?" or "what is intelligence for?"
Multiverse1 Resident: the body feeds the brain
Multiverse1 Resident: caffine, hormones, internal influence as well as external
Calvino Rabeni: It seems now science is starting to explore the crossroads a lot more, starting to reach into "inner space"
Multiverse1 Resident: the space between neurons
Paradise Tennant: interesting how thoughts can leap .. much larger distances how we can pick up another's thoughts
Multiverse1 Resident: it's a swirl of crossroads, the sixth sense?
Multiverse1 Resident: or just aligning ourselves to our society?
Calvino Rabeni: Here's a science quote ... showing knowledge trying to branch out of a tight orbit

"Animals with bigger brains are not necessarily more intelligent," according to Lars Chittka, Professor of Sensory and Behavioural Ecology at Queen Mary's Research Centre for Psychology and University of Cambridge colleague, Jeremy Niven. This begs the important question: what are they for? Research repeatedly shows how insects are capable of some intelligent behaviours scientists previously thought was unique to larger animals. Honeybees, for example, can count, categorise similar objects like dogs or human faces, understand 'same' and 'different', and differentiate between shapes that are symmetrical and asymmetrical.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091117124009.htm

--BELL--

Multiverse1 Resident: "He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough." Lao Tzu
Paradise Tennant: the tao of honey :)
Multiverse1 Resident: Before here I asked someone if a honeybee was a being. The answer came, yes of course I belive.
Multiverse1 Resident: behive
Multiverse1 Resident: uh believe
Paradise Tennant: smiles believe they beehive too :)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Calvino Rabeni: The conclusion of that article is also at a choice point / crossroads:

"This must mean that much 'advanced' thinking can actually be done with very limited neuron numbers. Computer modelling shows that even consciousness can be generated with very small neural circuits, which could in theory easily fit into an insect brain."

Paradise Tennant: they understand discipline sacrifice prudence organization loyalty and courage bees are very .. much complete beings
Calvino Rabeni: A lot of the functional intelligence of the bee is social ... comes from the collective
Paradise Tennant: as does ours
Calvino Rabeni: surely :)
Multiverse1 Resident: look at the quantum computers they are attempting to create with minimum molecular structure
Calvino Rabeni: Those studies really ask for a redefinition of intelligence
Multiverse1 Resident: We are the judges of this mentality then?
Calvino Rabeni: That seems to be the problem, that the judge writes the rule-book too
Multiverse1 Resident: yes , no objectivity
Calvino Rabeni: Without a very conscious judge, it would be an ethical problem
Multiverse1 Resident: perhaps the bees know more than they tell
Santoshima Resident: perhaps we're not listening
Multiverse1 Resident: most do not take the tyme
Multiverse1 Resident: I once saw 5 varieties working a small patch of flowers in complete harmony
Calvino Rabeni: It takes skill to see outside the orbit one is in
Calvino Rabeni: and some humility and cooperation, and some practice?
Multiverse1 Resident: skills are learned through practice and can become stale with disuse
Calvino Rabeni: yes true
Multiverse1 Resident: But some things are natural, like thought and hunger
Calvino Rabeni: it helps to apprentice to one who knows more or has more ability
Santoshima Resident: yes
Multiverse1 Resident: I find that I learn things from everywhere and when
Calvino Rabeni: I know what you mean Multi
Calvino Rabeni: I'd like to apprentice to someone who had skills I don't have, of being hungry
Paradise Tennant: lol nibblish .. peckish .. ? smiles
Multiverse1 Resident: but to have similar interests and patience can be a pleasant experience
Calvino Rabeni: yes!
Multiverse1 Resident: groups tend to pass along knowledge in their independent knowledge frames of reference. Masons and pilots for example. Or loggers and mathemeticians
Multiverse1 Resident: or beekeepers
Multiverse1 Resident: experience in a realm
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: That's true
Calvino Rabeni: it's interesting to hang out with such a group or to meet them at a crossroads
Paradise Tennant: interesting to mix it up .. share experiences with very diverse groups .. always broadens .. stretches out your thoughts ..understanding .. what I really like about sl
Multiverse1 Resident: I call it happenstance
Paradise Tennant: exactly happenstance !
Calvino Rabeni: nods, sometimes I think, grace, or opportunity, or synergy
Calvino Rabeni: but happenstance is fun :)
Multiverse1 Resident: the right place at the correct tyme or vice versa
Calvino Rabeni: nods
Calvino Rabeni: Could you excuse me please though, I need to jump on a different horse on the merry go round
Santoshima Resident: happy trails, cal
Multiverse1 Resident: sometymes the best laid plans are not those that endure
Paradise Tennant: smiles take cal .. thanks interesting session:)
Calvino Rabeni: smiles thanks
Calvino Rabeni: take care everyone :)
Multiverse1 Resident: have fun
Calvino Rabeni: bye for now
Multiverse1 Resident: I'm afraid my tyme period is expiring also good cheer Paradise, Stevenaia, and San
Santoshima Resident: peace, Multiverse
Paradise Tennant: nite nite multi namaste :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles I should say good nite too :) dog is giving me a very fixed gaze :)
Santoshima Resident: oohh, good dawg
Paradise Tennant: little telepathic messages coming through .. loud and clear :)
Santoshima Resident: yeah
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Paradise, sorry
Santoshima Resident: nite Paradise
stevenaia Michinaga: I had a pen explosion
stevenaia Michinaga: in the laundry
Paradise Tennant: nite nite stev san .. thank you :))
stevenaia Michinaga: :)