2011.12.24 19:00 - To the Dreams Themselves

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: hi Arch!
Pema Pera: happy almost Christmas :-)
Pema Pera: hi Bleu!
Archmage Atlantis: Ty, the same to you......if you are in the US :)
Bleu Oleander: Hi Pema :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Arch
Archmage Atlantis: Hi Bleu :)
Pema Pera: for me already Christmas day, noon, in Japan
Pema Pera: just returned from Holland two days ago
Archmage Atlantis: Ah ha! Thought that might be the case, Pema :)
Bleu Oleander: you've covered a lot of territory!
Pema Pera: well, it's easy, just sitting in a chair in a plane :)
Archmage Atlantis: Pema, I have a question you may know the answer to.
--BELL--
Pema Pera: shoot, Arch!
Archmage Atlantis: I can find an entry for the Kira Institute on Wikipedia....but none for PaB. Is there a reason for that?
Pema Pera: the Kira entry is quite new
Archmage Atlantis: Ah
Archmage Atlantis: I see
Pema Pera: as of a week ago or so
Pema Pera: more related entries may appear, but for now there is the question of whether Kira is "notable" enough, as you can see from the top of the page
Pema Pera: that question will be more pertinent for groups like PaB
Archmage Atlantis: The reason I went looking is that, to me, it seems that the world is finally beginning a new cycle.....and that the thoughts generated here at PaB are germaine to that change.
Archmage Atlantis: Ok.....well, everything great new thing takes time :)
Pema Pera: any new videos you are working on, Bleu?
Archmage Atlantis: Longer than most of us in the US have the patience for.....which is both supportive of and detremental to new ways of being.
Archmage Atlantis: TY
Bleu Oleander: taking a break for a few weeks Pema
Pema Pera: any particular plans, or will you wait for inspiration in the new year?
Bleu Oleander: I'm interested in seeing what the next contests are in the new year
Pema Pera: how many are there?
Bleu Oleander: but I do have some ideas
Pema Pera: hi Fox!
Bleu Oleander: hi Fox
Fox Monacular: Hi everyone!
Archmage Atlantis: Greetings Fox:)
Fox Monacular: Pema, Bleu, Arch, it's been a while:)
Bleu Oleander: yes, how have you been?
Pema Pera: yes, good to see you again, Fox!
Fox Monacular: not bad, thanks, Bleu, intense school:)
Fox Monacular: 1st semester... kind of crazy
Pema Pera: what have you been studying so far?
Fox Monacular: yourselves?
Fox Monacular: I've been studying phenomenology
Fox Monacular: in a really intense seminar
Fox Monacular: 2 actually
Fox Monacular: :)
Bleu Oleander: nice :)
Fox Monacular: basically it was the 1st sepester of my phd
Pema Pera: great! What kind of authors have you been reading?
Archmage Atlantis: That sounds very interesting, Fox :)
Fox Monacular: Merleau-Ponty primarily
Fox Monacular: phenomenology of perecption in depth
Fox Monacular: now visible and invisible and institution and passivity lectures
Pema Pera: ah yes, very interesting indeed!
Pema Pera: hi ELiza!
Fox Monacular: moving on to Husserl on intersubjectivity in January
Fox Monacular: Hi Eliza!
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Archmage Atlantis: Hello, Eliza....nice to see you...been a while for me :)
Pema Pera: I consider Husserl the most interesting European philosopher of the last century
Fox Monacular: yes, I agree
Pema Pera: even though he isn't read that much anymore these days
Fox Monacular: hard to read!
Pema Pera: he's been an inspiration for many, and yes, very hard to read
Fox Monacular: Merleau-Ponty is much more accessible and poetic
Fox Monacular: and muc indebted to Husserl
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone, thanks Arch :) WB Pema
Pema Pera: yes, like many others more well known, including Sartre and Heidegger
Eliza Madrigal brought Primacy of Perception to holiday but hasn't opened it :)
Fox Monacular: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Fox Monacular: actually, the new English translation of Phenomenologu of Perception is coming out in January
Fox Monacular: and we have read some of it in class
Archmage Atlantis: Guess I'll have to wait for the History Channel to do a special.....*grin*.......I'm pretty much down to the TV versions of Clift's notes these days *smile*
Fox Monacular: it is excellent
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ewan :)
Fox Monacular: Pema, I know you were much inspired by Husserl, what would you recommend that I read to really start understanding him (not from secondary sources:)
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Hi Ewan :)
Fox Monacular: Hi Ewan
Bleu Oleander: hi Ewan
Pema Pera: Hi Ewan!
Pema Pera: That's a really tough question, Fox
Fox Monacular: :)
Pema Pera: I myself started with "Ideas"
Fox Monacular: I tried to, as well:)
Pema Pera: and even though I read it in the original German, I couldn't make much sense of it
Fox Monacular: :)))
Pema Pera: so I went back to Logical Investigations
Pema Pera: read all of its 1000+ pages
Pema Pera: and THEN it was very clear what he was trying to say
Pema Pera: given the context that I then understood
Fox Monacular: I see:) Cartesian Meditations cleared things a bit for me
Pema Pera: so I then read Ideas
Pema Pera: and after that Cartesian Meditations, yes
Pema Pera: and the Crisis as well
Pema Pera: and a few other assorted writings
Fox Monacular: we'll start with On Intersubjectivity next semester, I'm a bit worried:)
Fox Monacular: (and it will be in French:)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sam :) Will give you a note
Archmage Atlantis: Hi Samud :)
Pema Pera: I haven't read that. Perhaps it would be good to use one or more secondary texts, to help with the context?
Bleu Oleander: hi Sam
Pema Pera: hi Sam!
Fox Monacular: yes, definitely, I will read some interpretation simultaneously, it helps
Fox Monacular: although sometimes confuses things
Pema Pera: Dan Zahavi, a good friend of mine, has written extensively about (inter)subjectivity and Husserl
Fox Monacular: yes, I have his book!
Pema Pera: he and I are thinking about writing something together
Fox Monacular: amazing:)!
Pema Pera: as a short introduction to phenomenology in a kind of dialogue form
Pema Pera: perhaps set in a bar, people chatting :-)
Bleu Oleander: sounds like something even I could read?
Fox Monacular: can I join you for a pint to listen in:)?
Pema Pera: sure! :-)
Pema Pera: is there anything particular that draws you and/or that you have questions about, concerning Husserl, Fox?
Fox Monacular: well, phenomenology has always attracted me
Pema Pera: I'm happy to sketch what I understand of him, if there is a particular angle that you're interested in
Fox Monacular: and now I took a class with David Morris on Merleau-Ponty
Fox Monacular: so I feel taht I'm on a right track, and Husserl is a must to really understand the ambition of the project
Fox Monacular: I'm inspired by Varela and Maturana;s work initially
Fox Monacular: and by the embodied cognition movement
Fox Monacular: although I'm sure it can get more phenomenological
Fox Monacular: so this 'methodological' part will be a part of my dissertation
Fox Monacular: on dreams and phenomenology
Pema Pera: yes, it's nice to see more interest appearing recently
Fox Monacular: through the body
Pema Pera: great!
Fox Monacular: So I'm interested in what kind of angle, do you think, Husserl would take on dreams
Archmage Atlantis: Ok, Dan Zahavi's book on Husserl's Phenomenology got 4 stars on Amazon, if I can get a copy sent from the library, maybe I can catch up *grin*
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fox Monacular: and hallucinations, stuff that was teaditionally left out
Pema Pera: :-)
Fox Monacular: and was though of as 'purely in the mind'
Fox Monacular: as if not connected to the body
Fox Monacular: so I say, it's all still connected:)
Pema Pera: for Husserl, all appearances are equally interesting
Pema Pera: that is the foundation of his analysis
Pema Pera: he looks at consciousness qua consciousness
Pema Pera: and treats all objects of consciousness in the same way, in first approximation
Pema Pera: if people object and say "hey, a real cup is more real than a dream cup"
Pema Pera: Husserl just notes that a real cup has a different mode of givenness than a dream cup
Pema Pera: but both are given in consciousness
Pema Pera: plus something else is given in consciousness, namely the belief that real things are real
Bleu Oleander: different maybe when you pour coffee into it
Pema Pera: (and similarly, in most dreams, the belief there too that dream objects are real)
Fox Monacular: right, the experience is what it is
Fox Monacular: so, 'to the dreams themselves'
Pema Pera: in a dream, most dream coffee can be poured quite easily in dream cups :-)
Fox Monacular: :)
Pema Pera: nice, Fox!
Pema Pera: would that be a title of your thesis?
Fox Monacular: being-in-the-dream:)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: so of course Husserl doesn't deny the difference between waking and dreaming, but he shows how you can have a kind of "unified approach" to both, while respecting also the differences.
Pema Pera: or between reality and fantasy, say
Fox Monacular: yes, imagination and memory too
Eliza Madrigal: ah, nice, nods
Pema Pera: both occur in consciousness, yes, and so does the belief that one is more real than the other
Archmage Atlantis: I am not sure how this fits in to the discussion, but what is coming to my mind is a quote I heard to day........In response to a question about her reaction to Rush Limbaugh's comments about her, Mrs. Obama replied "I own my own happiness"......
Fox Monacular: can be a re-constructive thing... with all these retentions of the past existing at each present point
Pema Pera: and most importantly, the subject-object relations are similar accross the board
Eliza Madrigal: interesting quote, Arch, ty
Pema Pera: yes, our own phenomena are indeed our own
Pema Pera: yet we can resonate with others
Fox Monacular: in the dream, I have this feeling that the dream space and dream thngs are really intersubjective resonances
Pema Pera: "sharing" experiences is not like handing a cup of tea, more like shaking up :)
Fox Monacular: relational space
Fox Monacular: :))
Eliza Madrigal: shaking up?
Pema Pera: I look forward to reading your thesis, Fox!
Fox Monacular: thanks, Pema!
Pema Pera: shaking in order to resonate, yes :)
Fox Monacular: I look forward to figuring out what it will be about:)
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Pema Pera: have you written something already that I can have a look at, perhaps, Fox?
Fox Monacular: I have 2 parts - a dream lab part, and an immersive augmented reality installation part
Fox Monacular: so 2 different methods
Pema Pera: wonderful!
Fox Monacular: both, hopefully, have someting to do woth phenomenology]
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Fox Monacular: of livingbodies moving throigh space
Pema Pera: sounds like so :)
Fox Monacular: real space or dream space
Fox Monacular: so in an installation we would modify their body or movement or somehow temporality o the event
Fox Monacular: and in the dream we can only stimulate their muscles
Fox Monacular: which does something to the dream
Fox Monacular: and to the moving dreaming body
Fox Monacular: I work with these people: topologicalmedialab.net
Fox Monacular: and with these people: dreamscience.ca
Fox Monacular: :)
Pema Pera: how interesting! Is David Morris involved in the Topological Media Lab too?
Fox Monacular: yes, he and my supervisor, Sha Xin Wei did a pilot study together
Fox Monacular: I will pick up from there, and, hopefully, continue
Fox Monacular: with the same people
Fox Monacular: do you know David Morris?
Pema Pera: I'm trying to remember . . .
oO0Oo Resident is enjoying the *feeling* of this conversation
Pema Pera: In the nineties I went to various phenomenology conferences
Fox Monacular: He has a book out: "The sense of space"
Pema Pera: may or may not have run into him
Fox Monacular: he is a very inspiring teacher
Pema Pera googling
Fox Monacular: http://philosophy.concordia.ca/facul...lty/morris.php
Pema Pera: amazon doesn't give a table of contents -- what is "The Sense of Space" about?
Fox Monacular: Basically he expands on Merleau-Ponty's view of space from Phenomenology
Pema Pera: I'll have a look at it!
Fox Monacular: talks about sense of space as labile, lived, intersubjective and affective
Fox Monacular: I liked it a lot
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: The 1 reviewer on Amazon gave it 5 stars :).........My reading list is filling up :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: Believe it or not, I've still not yet visited Montreal
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Pema Pera: one of these days I should drop by!
Pema Pera: and now I have even more reasons to. :-)
oO0Oo Resident hopes Pema makes it to everywhere
Eliza Madrigal: yes me too... have 99 steps to climb... with eden too
Pema Pera: ?
Eliza Madrigal: will have to read Monday night's session Pema... discussion of cathedral :)
oO0Oo Resident: All the best of the season to you observerm :)
Pema Pera: maybe someone in Montreal will organize a spontaneous weekend PaB retreat?
Archmage Atlantis: Sounds like a folk/rock/spiritual = "99 steps to climb" :)
oO0Oo Resident: :) trippy
Pema Pera: fitting with our 99 days meditation blog
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) and appropriate to pab's recurring 9s
Pema Pera: !
Fox Monacular: :) Pema, if ever you are in Montreal, please let me know:)
Pema Pera: will do, for sure!
Fox Monacular: any cool conferences coming up here, I wonder? :)
Pema Pera: you can organize one yourself!
Fox Monacular: haha, soon, yes, to make sure there's at least one on this planet which fits my interests:)))
Archmage Atlantis: ::))
Fox Monacular: just like I made up my own phd program (no kidding)
Pema Pera: always good to follow your own interests
Eliza Madrigal: own happiness :)
Pema Pera: if you're excited about it, it can become contagious :-)
Fox Monacular: never know where they'll take you:)))
Pema Pera: yes!
Fox Monacular: contagious, yes!
oO0Oo Resident: :)))
Fox Monacular: (I have 3 supervisors, and they all seem to be having good time together)
Pema Pera: as a colleague at MIT tells his students: there are only two problems in life, career wise: 1) finding out what you really want to do; 2) getting someone to pay you for doing it
Fox Monacular: but, seriously, Pema, I'd be honored if you read parts of my thesis (if you have time, of course)
Pema Pera: 1) is by far the hardest for most people!
Pema Pera: I'd be happy too, Fox!
Pema Pera: you can email me whatever you like, whenever
Archmage Atlantis: Argh.....number 2 is the difficult one, methinks
Pema Pera: I'm really glad to see phenomenology being applied to contemporary research, not only to interpreting old articles
Fox Monacular: thanks, Pema! I really appreciate it:) swimming in some murky unclear waters here:))
Pema Pera: number 2) seems difficult
Pema Pera: but if you really find 1), you're likely to shine, and people recognize that
Pema Pera: in my experience, people who solve 1, quickly solve 2 too
Pema Pera: the universe seems to comply :)
Fox Monacular: seems right to me, 2 kind of solved itself when I solved 1
Archmage Atlantis: In academia I agree, Pema....not so much in the corporate world.
Pema Pera: glad to hear that, Fox!
Fox Monacular: yeah, I got lucky
Pema Pera: I've seen it with many people around me, including msyelf
Pema Pera: here's another way of looking at it: there are four possibilities
oO0Oo Resident: takes a recursive shining to oneself
Pema Pera: either you do what you really like or you study what you think gets you a nice job
Pema Pera: and then either you do or do not get a nice job
Pema Pera: now of the four combinations of those two there is only one that is REALLY bad:
Pema Pera: studying what you don't like and getting a job you don't like
Archmage Atlantis: Agree Pema.....I've been there
Fox Monacular: :))))
Pema Pera: you can't gurantee the job part, but you have the freedom to choose the study part
Archmage Atlantis: Agree again
Pema Pera: and thus avoid the worst square
Pema Pera: :-)
Fox Monacular: In my experience too, I've always done the opposite of 'logical', but in favor of somehting that I though was really worth it for me
Fox Monacular: and then somehow things always worked out financially and logistically
Fox Monacular: with a lot of work in it, of course
Ewan Bonham: Hello Cal
Pema Pera: and that makes you stand out for future job applications too: good managers/directors notice those aspects
Pema Pera: hi Cal !
Calvino Rabeni: Hi everyon :)
Fox Monacular: Hi Cal!
Bleu Oleander: hi Cal
Archmage Atlantis: Hi Cal :)
Pema Pera: well, time for lunch here in Kyoto
oO0Oo Resident: Season's greetings Cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: have a great lunch, and thanks for Husserl tips, Pema!
Calvino Rabeni: For dinner I had some potatoes I think from japan, that are a deep purple color - full of flavor
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, time to make the Christmas doughnuts.....A happy solstice to all, an to all a good night ( or whatever the local time period is :))
oO0Oo Resident: All the best Arch :) and Pema :)
Pema Pera: good seeing you all -- hope we haven't dominated too much with phenomenology talk this time :-)
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you Pema ... enjoy lunch :)
Fox Monacular: thanks, Pema!
Pema Pera: and yes, those are quite tasty, Cal !
Bleu Oleander: and nice to see you Fox ... enjoyed the conversation
Pema Pera: bfn
oO0Oo Resident: What a wonderful experience to hear others' enthusiasm :)
Fox Monacular: take care:)
Bleu Oleander: bye everyone ... take care :)
Fox Monacular: bye Bleu, was great to see you!
oO0Oo Resident: Bye bleu :)
oO0Oo Resident: wb Eliza
Fox Monacular: wb Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: :) ty
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for the interesting talk.... a spontaneous theme session... coming away with notes :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino :)
Fox Monacular: hehe, yes, it was a rare occassion to talk to Pema about it:)
Eliza Madrigal: delightful
Calvino Rabeni: True, sorry to miss it
oO0Oo Resident: Nice to be able to pour over this log [will be a few reads for me] :)
Fox Monacular: It would be great to have an actual theme session on it
Eliza Madrigal: this active, alive space topic is particularly fascinating...
Fox Monacular: perhaps next year?:)
Eliza Madrigal: sounds wonderful Fox, yes!
Eliza Madrigal signs up
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: enjoyed your email to the group too, Cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Fox Monacular: very intriguing domain, I'm (amlmost worried! that) totally buying into it nowadays
Calvino Rabeni: hm Fox?
Eliza Madrigal: buying into suspension of belief... what an idea
Fox Monacular: yes, exactly:)
Fox Monacular: no, I mean just taht I read Merleau-Ponty, and nod all the time
oO0Oo Resident: a suspension bridge
Fox Monacular: never, like, huh? really? come on!
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Fox Monacular: more like aga! I knew it! I thought so !
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Fox Monacular: so I guess I have to take some time out with his books and come back later
Eliza Madrigal: have you read enough to see distinctions in approach/view from the main authors?
Fox Monacular: oh, I'm still an infant philosopher, I wouldn't go into comparative phenomenology yet:)
Fox Monacular: in a couple of semesters, sure:)))
Eliza Madrigal: :) well... just considering you are very familiar with Varella especially
Eliza Madrigal: have expanded my horizons
Fox Monacular: Varela was very much influenced by Merleau-Ponty
Fox Monacular: and Husserl, of course
Fox Monacular: I think I got my first interest reading Maturana and Varela's Autopoiesis book
Fox Monacular: which was recommended (I forget in what context) by my now-supervisor
Fox Monacular: this has expanded my horizons as well, and I realized that there's a way to work simultaneously in sciences and humanities (in a non-shallow, real way_
Eliza Madrigal: Nice!
Fox Monacular: so there, now I'm doing an individualized phd
oO0Oo Resident: certainly seems #1 is covered ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fox Monacular: with supervisors in psychiatry-computation arts-philosophy- and psychology
Eliza Madrigal: a dream itself
Calvino Rabeni: I wouldn't want the discussion to pass without mention of James, Dewey, and Mead either .. all still very much in mention in neurophilosophy
Fox Monacular: yes, I'm very very fortunate, I realize it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: yes, you're right, Calvino, there are important precursors
Calvino Rabeni: That is fortunate, Fox, to be doing your work at such an interdisciplinary crossroads
Fox Monacular: exciting, yes, also a bit scary
Fox Monacular: since there are no real guidelines
Fox Monacular: and it is unclear what exactly I should work for
Eliza Madrigal is deeply fortunate as well and happy you are doing what you are doing! :) seems we all benefit
Calvino Rabeni: That could be a problem in a way, to have no particular orthodoxy to refute
Fox Monacular: yes, no orthodoxy on one hand (I don't want my thesis to be controversial either), and also no 'norms' on the other hand
Fox Monacular: for now supervisors seem content:), but it is not clear how much work is needed to be done, and in what format
Fox Monacular: so I probably will end up doing 3 times the normal workload
Fox Monacular: which is fine
Fox Monacular: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yet any PhD thesis needs to flirt with the edge of being controversial, doesn't it, to be able to advance the state of knowledge?
Fox Monacular: yes, yes, I guess I mean not controversial in the sense of not being an attack on some status quo
Fox Monacular: rather a positive spit
Fox Monacular: oups, spin
Fox Monacular: controversial is fun otherwise:)
Fox Monacular: non-violent advancement of knowledge
oO0Oo Resident: oh wow.. cool phrase
Calvino Rabeni: Recently I got my mother to tell the stories of her thesis (from the 1950's) and her father's...
Calvino Rabeni: and found it a lot more dramatic than I would have expected
Calvino Rabeni: I was glad to have asked
Fox Monacular: dramatic, in what way?
Calvino Rabeni: There were in the same line ... what now would be called cognitive science, though then, it was just called Psychology
Calvino Rabeni: He did some early work in language universals, and she took aim at behaviorism
Calvino Rabeni: it was controversial enough to warrant a few extra professors on the panel at the thesis defense
Calvino Rabeni: who wanted to be there to look for cracks, I suppose,
Calvino Rabeni: and there were some dramatic politics
Calvino Rabeni: in fact the defense ran out of time, and called for a recess, and to be reconvened after the "prosecution" had more time
Fox Monacular: ouch
Calvino Rabeni: (they aren't really a prosecution, but you get the idea)
Calvino Rabeni: so they waited for the next meeting, I"m sure she was on edge about it
Fox Monacular: sure, yes, seem like prosecutions sometimes
Calvino Rabeni: and when it happened, there was one she knew had called for the second meeting
oO0Oo Resident: wb Eliza
Fox Monacular: that must have been really stressful!
Calvino Rabeni: and they went round the panel, soliciting for further questions
Eliza Madrigal: ty Sam ::::dusts off::: try try again
Calvino Rabeni: and none of the other panel members had any
Calvino Rabeni: until her main protagonist got his turn ...
Calvino Rabeni: and he kept his mouth shut and said "no further questions"
Calvino Rabeni: so the second panel consisted of zero questions
Fox Monacular: haha, good!
Calvino Rabeni: and the motion was passed :)
Calvino Rabeni: (approved or whatever)
Fox Monacular: these things can become real warzones
Fox Monacular: my husband's defense was quite intense
Calvino Rabeni: Political issues and personal vendettas enter into it
Fox Monacular: I heard the committee members yell at each other during deliberation:)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fox Monacular: well, argue:)
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: but also lately I've beed to a couple of really nice defenses, which seemed more like just a bunch of really intersting people conversing about issues that they all cared about
Fox Monacular: so I guess it all depends on who's on your committee
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fox Monacular: (and how good your thesis is too)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Fox Monacular: so fat I'm friends with most of my committee
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: *so far
Calvino Rabeni: That sounds almost like a good kind of intellectual entertainment ... would be a reality tv channel I'd tune into
Fox Monacular: yes, or a talk show:)
oO0Oo Resident: lol
Calvino Rabeni: nods
Fox Monacular: The DEFENSE!
oO0Oo Resident: nice
Calvino Rabeni: it would be really educational for the viewers
Fox Monacular: depends on a topic though... they get 30 min to talk about their whole thesis
Fox Monacular: so you kind of need to know something about it
Fox Monacular: especially in science
Fox Monacular: there you can really get lost!
Fox Monacular: on that talk show, you can earn points, and vote a committee member off the room:))
Fox Monacular: and you can lose points, and 'earn' another round of questions
Calvino Rabeni: There could be host / commentators who could help the audience understand the issues ... a nice kind of science journalism ...
Calvino Rabeni: ... wishful thinking :)
Fox Monacular: yes! in parts - an overview of the field and its controversies
Fox Monacular: then dramatic introduction of the committee
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Fox Monacular: "what would X say when he hears xyz thesis!"
Fox Monacular: or "he's the main supervisor, but he does not know that the student put in an EXTRA CHAPTER!"
Calvino Rabeni: X = Freud, or Chomksy, etc.
Calvino Rabeni: heh
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe a little behind-the-scenes scuttlebutt
Fox Monacular: haha, yes, a behind-the-scenes "do you think that data was FALCIFIED???
Fox Monacular: or, how exactly did he get an ethics approval on his protocol!
Fox Monacular: just trying to bring in some TV reality show drama into thesis defense:)))
Calvino Rabeni: with commentary, like, Panel member C is looking pretty calm, you almost think he buys it, even though the defendee left his research program and went to Panel D's lab
Fox Monacular: haha, yes, drama of trust and betrayal
Fox Monacular: and lost funding promises
Calvino Rabeni: haha ,,, ulp :)
Fox Monacular: ulp?
Calvino Rabeni: Well I like the idea as an educational drama, but I was thinking of some betrayals, that might be difficult to have before the public eye
Fox Monacular: :)
--BELL--
oO0Oo Resident: I'll leave soon, but wish to share this, and thank you all for your wonderful company :) http://is.gd/xA2mle
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks oO0Oo
Calvino Rabeni: Very uplifting and calming
Fox Monacular: yes, thank you
Fox Monacular: I need to go now too
Fox Monacular: good to be back at pab:)
Fox Monacular: happy holidays everybody
Calvino Rabeni: Happy holidays Fox, 0
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening and night :)