The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways, Eliza, oO0Oo, Zen and Akazilong.  This 2 hour session includes many URLs that you the reader should visit, as we did.  Many of the chat is about, around, over and extensions of those contents.

Some of this session is repeating other already said stuff, but in an important [to whom?] new interconnected way.

Dear gentle reader please allow your most humble servant to suggest the last URL listed should really be read.  And please to read many of the comments toward the end of that published blog/comic/content.

Riddle Sideways: ah, dear friend Listener Master, are you awake now?
Riddle Sideways: good. There will be stuff to hear.
                 --BELL-- 
Riddle Sideways: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: o Hi oO
Eliza Madrigal: Hi oO0Oo :)
Riddle Sideways: was just reading another great article link
Eliza Madrigal: oh?
Riddle Sideways: for the chat log maybe both should be included here
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Riddle, Eliza
Riddle Sideways: www.shinzen.org/Retreat%20Reading/artEquanimity.pdf was from Mick
Eliza Madrigal: I haven't had a chance to read recent emails.... just arrived home from visiting family
Riddle Sideways: ok, welcome back

         Sam's Av turns into a flitting Butterfly.  Sorry, did not take photo.  So nice and beautifull to chat today with a butterfly.  /me needs to chat with butterflies more often.
Riddle Sideways: awww, Sam
oO0Oo Resident: wb Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Oh... yes! Equanimity is actually my 2012 focus... very timely
Eliza Madrigal: smiles at Sam
Riddle Sideways: and Arch posted: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...pied-language/
Riddle Sideways: how language changes
Eliza Madrigal: oh, yes have read the latter...
Riddle Sideways: just thought both links should be in log
Riddle Sideways: not that either would become a topic :)
Eliza Madrigal reaches for dradle to sit closer
Riddle Sideways: Hi Zen
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Zen Arado: Hi Riddle , Eliza :)
Riddle Sideways: yes, the draddle is fun to play
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Zen
Riddle Sideways: ty Sam
Zen Arado: Hi Sam :)
Eliza Madrigal: fluttering
Zen Arado: didn't see you

Riddle Sideways: oO draddle, draddle, draddle, I made it out of prims
Zen Arado: ah ok
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Riddle Sideways: and when it's rezzed a draddle we will play :)
                 --BELL-- 
Eliza Madrigal: :) guess prims don't have to dry
Riddle Sideways: *(and ready)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: should have been in lyrics
Riddle Sideways: or dry
oO0Oo Resident: drei

     Thanks Sam, correct speeling is "Dreidel"
Riddle Sideways: song in head has both working ok
Riddle Sideways: oh yeah :]
Eliza Madrigal: fond memories
Zen Arado: dreich
Riddle Sideways: the family had ALL (27) of the fancy decorative dreiddles out this year
Riddle Sideways: trying to spin them
Eliza Madrigal: another large gathering Riddle?
Riddle Sideways: most don't
Riddle Sideways: and scratch the table too
Riddle Sideways: quite a few. over many nights
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: mostly am awed at the simple joys of the SL menorah over there
Riddle Sideways: how a simple script can light the right number of candles
Zen Arado: menorah?
Riddle Sideways: on the right date/time
Riddle Sideways: what do you call it Zen?
Zen Arado: call what?
Zen Arado: thecandleholder?
Riddle Sideways: 9 candled flaming thing behind the pillow pile
Zen Arado: oh I didn't know what to call it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: and thank you Sam for bringing/leaving it here
Zen Arado: didn't know they had a name
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Zen Arado: I thought they had to have 5 candles
Zen Arado: like Star of David?
Riddle Sideways: this one should have 9
Riddle Sideways: um, star has 6
Zen Arado: I don't know much about Jewish traditions
Zen Arado: as you see :)
Riddle Sideways: :)
Zen Arado: remember things dimly from Bible study
Zen Arado: very dimly
Eliza Madrigal: (earlier had thought Sam was dreidle [with correct spelling]) didn't see the butterfly avie
Eliza Madrigal: lol

Zen Arado: I tried some furry avs last night
Zen Arado: lots come with V2
Riddle Sideways: yesterday session we were all tinies
Zen Arado: hmmm no free tinies
Riddle Sideways: Boxy is probably not a furry?
Zen Arado: kind of robot animal?
Zen Arado: difficult to define is boxy
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: lots of free avs around in stores/search
Zen Arado: maybe SL blurs definitions
Zen Arado: hmmm
Riddle Sideways: maybe
Riddle Sideways giggles

Zen Arado: finds relationships distinctins fuzzy
Zen Arado: hmmm
Zen Arado: it's a fuzzy place
Riddle Sideways: now there is a deep topic
                 --BELL-- 
Zen Arado: how many of our RL traditions do we have to import into SL?
         now there is a topic
Eliza Madrigal: 'have to' ?
Zen Arado: customs
Zen Arado: or need to?
Riddle Sideways: hmmmm, have to
Zen Arado: or want to?
oO0Oo Resident: How many are not already here ..coming with our idea of ourselves?
Zen Arado: yeh
Eliza Madrigal: I thought about that a lot when visiting family... sounds funny to say but their customs aren't exactly my own
Zen Arado: we automatically bring them with us
oO0Oo Resident: which is here? which is there?
Eliza Madrigal: but for a time I immerse
Zen Arado: yeh we bring a distinction in too
Zen Arado: ?
Zen Arado: or I do :)
Eliza Madrigal: so in Sl we can be all things and none
Eliza Madrigal: if we want to

Zen Arado: why not examine them?
Riddle Sideways: ok, let's

oO0Oo Resident: symbols invite as much what is not known, as what is
Eliza Madrigal listens
Riddle Sideways: yep
Riddle Sideways: to whom are you listening, Elisa
Zen Arado: how we behave is largely determined by our environment is it not?
Eliza Madrigal: re symbols...
Zen Arado: yeh ...was also waitin for symbolism exposition
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: SL a symbol of RL?
Zen Arado: an isomorphism?
Riddle Sideways: while still on environment, why would I bring a roof into SL?
Zen Arado: yeh good point Riddle
Eliza Madrigal nods
Zen Arado: but we still put them on houses here
Riddle Sideways: why?
Eliza Madrigal: still appreciate weather changes

Zen Arado: we bring the familiar things we are used to

oO0Oo Resident: why take an anthropocentric form? Why have gravity? Why a blue sky?

Zen Arado: exactly
Zen Arado: cos we are anthropocentric I guess
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: is it mere preference?
oO0Oo Resident: are we?
Riddle Sideways: all the better to relate ?
oO0Oo Resident: or something we have?
Eliza Madrigal: connection, nods
Zen Arado: anthropods can't help being anthropocntric
Zen Arado: ?
Riddle Sideways: at first, at least
oO0Oo Resident: alot to drop
Zen Arado: yeh...a lessening of anthropocentricity
Zen Arado: become other forms

Riddle Sideways: safety in not relating to what we are, so we bring what we have here
Zen Arado: then we will defeat the humans
Eliza Madrigal: when the chance to relate to what we are arrives then what we have is less needed
Zen Arado: wish I knew what I am
Eliza Madrigal: compelling presence arises perhaps

             Love this link "ALOT"
oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/9CRi6P
Zen Arado: somebody says 'be yourself'
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Sam
Zen Arado: how do yoiu know when you are being yourself?
Riddle Sideways: awww, ty Sam
Zen Arado: lo l
Zen Arado: maye we become furries if in here a long time
Zen Arado: drop humanoid form
oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/ANDaQ8
oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/7AIt8d
oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/QaQ2G0
                 --BELL-- 
Riddle Sideways: given the chance to relate on a new Second Level... we brought what we have
Zen Arado: should I have a wheelchair in SL?
         Zen rezs a wheelchair to sit in
Riddle Sideways: ah, Zen
oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/E7oaET
Eliza Madrigal: :) Zen
Zen Arado: some in Virtual Ability group use them
Zen Arado: but I don't really see why
Eliza Madrigal: I can see why
Riddle Sideways: so many questions
Zen Arado: listens
oO0Oo Resident: maybe you can see 'why not' then Zen
Eliza Madrigal: if SL for some is a way to work different sorts of freedoms or flexibility into their way of relating in RL
Eliza Madrigal: staying in what is most difficult while also exploring
Zen Arado: they seem to see it as part of their identity
Zen Arado: but to me it is only a tool
Zen Arado: like a bicycle
Zen Arado: I suppose we identify with a body the same way
Riddle Sideways: Alot says a lot
Zen Arado: nad it is only a vehicle too?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe we 'bond' with our tools
Eliza Madrigal: until we forget
Riddle Sideways: extensions of us
Zen Arado: sorry I'm getting into identity peoblem again :)
Eliza Madrigal: doesn't have to be a negative
Zen Arado: well it bores people
Riddle Sideways: no, is all play
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: role play is still play
Zen Arado: I was amazed last night
Zen Arado: a woman asked me if I believe in spells
Zen Arado: she had a headache and thought someone might have put a spell on her
Zen Arado: there must be a line between superstitious beliefs and staying opne

Riddle Sideways: Hi Akazilong
Zen Arado: Hi Aka :)
akazilong Resident: good to be back
Zen Arado: maybe I am too skeptical
Zen Arado: thinks of Australian aborigines
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Akazilong
Zen Arado: someone 'points the bone' at them and they go away and die
Zen Arado: so maybe more about belief than science

oO0Oo Resident: Still with identity.. interesting the origin of the word cyborg:
http://is.gd/Aq9hSN and this:
"Cyborg: Evolution of the Superman in 1965 featured an introduction which spoke of a "new frontier" that was "not merely space, but more profoundly the relationship between 'inner space' to 'outer space' – a bridge...between mind and matter."[2]"

Eliza Madrigal: are you saying that we bring our 'spells' here Zen?
Zen Arado: ah Kurtsweiller
Eliza Madrigal clicks... ty Sam, interesting
Zen Arado: no...just amazed that people believe that
Zen Arado: from my scientific influenced perspective
akazilong Resident: hi eliza, my keyboard just froze
Zen Arado: I admit
Eliza Madrigal: :) A
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Akazilong
Eliza Madrigal: are there things you believe that you know you shouldn't if being truly ratiional?
                 --BELL-- 
akazilong Resident: i am personal very rational
Zen Arado: studying philosophy made me very rational I think
Eliza Madrigal: I believe in this setting in a certain way
Riddle Sideways: personally, am not very good at speeling
Zen Arado: :)
Riddle Sideways: but believing seems to work
oO0Oo Resident: maybe rationalisation increases

Zen Arado: and Zen teaches me to drop beliefs
Eliza Madrigal: in Zen?
Zen Arado: oh yes
Zen Arado: direct experience is king
Eliza Madrigal: so says Zen
Zen Arado: from what I have read anyway
Zen Arado: wb Aka
Riddle Sideways: suspending [whatever] to believe/play that this SL computer monitor and typist thing is a 'me'
Eliza Madrigal: wb Akazilong, sorry you are having trouble with tech today
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Riddle
Eliza Madrigal: it takes believe of a sort to be there together
Eliza Madrigal: *belief
Riddle Sideways: a tool? a belief? a new start?
akazilong Resident: yeah, just got logged out

Zen Arado: there is an iteresting series of science lectures on atm about how the brain fools us i what we see
Eliza Madrigal: the spell of SL
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: when we turn our head the brain switches off what we see momentarily
Zen Arado: unlike a camera
Zen Arado: but we don't notice it
Zen Arado: 90 % of seeing is in the brain they say
Riddle Sideways: yet it can be noticed
Eliza Madrigal: Yes!
Zen Arado: if you look in a mirror and look at one eye then the other you don't see the eyes move
akazilong Resident: no, its my wireless network, just ignore me for a few mintues, while i fix this

oO0Oo Resident: consciousness is almost like an interpolating algorithm.. approximating a reality out of appearances
akazilong Resident: corre,t the brain processes what we see and experience
Zen Arado: yes Sam
Eliza Madrigal: approximating, nods... implying there is more wiggle room than we tend to act as though there is
Zen Arado: ( thought everone though I am bobkers there)
Zen Arado: bonkers
Zen Arado: maybe I am :)
Eliza Madrigal: more wiggle room even in wheelchairs, SL or RL
Zen Arado: and we see what we want to see
Zen Arado: (or maybe just me)
Zen Arado: :)
oO0Oo Resident: maybe life as laboratory.. looking more closely at wiggle room.. is a bit like taking experimental drugs.
Riddle Sideways: see/hear/feel/touch/smell/etc. what we want and then approximate a reality from there
Eliza Madrigal: interesting idea...
Zen Arado: or doing meditation Sam
Riddle Sideways: altered states
Zen Arado: or the five aggregates of Buddhism
Zen Arado: we make a 'me' out of them
akazilong Resident: how we (me) experience the world
Eliza Madrigal: drugs perhaps allow a more drastic suspension

Riddle Sideways: how come changing the point of view seems to change how EYE see things :)
Zen Arado: remember Zen analogy
Eliza Madrigal: meditation is easy, naturally integrating 'the question' into everything... weaving in doubt
Eliza Madrigal: yes Zen?

Zen Arado: you palce a cup in front of a glass in front of you...person opposite see a cup n front of glass, oposite sees a
akazilong Resident: the viewpoint changes, two person see a different world
Zen Arado: person on left sees cup to right of glass
Zen Arado: etc
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: so no real reality then?
Zen Arado: just different viewpoints?

oO0Oo Resident: In a sense.. there is no finding you, as long as there is a me
                     reads that over again 4-6 times

                 --BELL-- 
Riddle Sideways: PoV
Eliza Madrigal: but in that question is a sort of assumption too, that 'reality' would be different viewpoints?
Zen Arado: or no viewpoint?
Zen Arado: no 'correct' one anyhow
akazilong Resident: so does the reality exists if no one is watching?
Zen Arado: maybe not
Zen Arado: need viewer and viewed
Eliza Madrigal: 'viewer disappears along with the view' ... Sam's musing ...
Riddle Sideways: or a pair-o-ducks. paradox
akazilong Resident: or an alternative reality exist
Zen Arado: yes Riddle?
Eliza Madrigal: beyond inside/outside, subject/object
     oh <expeltive>, everytime the chat gets good/serious/meaningful that Riddle wrecks it by a bad yoke.
       today begins the "Ban Riddle" campaign.
Eliza Madrigal: ducks?
Riddle Sideways: yep
Zen Arado: yes
oO0Oo Resident: ○o｡.< QuACK > .｡o○
Zen Arado: a seamless whole
Riddle Sideways: :)
Zen Arado: ha ha
Eliza Madrigal: :))
oO0Oo Resident: alot
Eliza Madrigal: alot of quacks
Eliza Madrigal giggles
oO0Oo Resident: snap
Riddle Sideways: Alot
akazilong Resident: ha
Zen Arado: ducks flap wings and tension disappears
Zen Arado: and they continue nonchalantly on their way
Zen Arado: (after they had a fight)
Riddle Sideways: likes watching the little waggle tails as ducks change PoV
Zen Arado: peole don't like too much fluidity I guess tho
Riddle Sideways: really?
Zen Arado: want someting solid and real
Zen Arado: I think
Zen Arado: 'humankind cannot bear very much reality'
Zen Arado: tho that means impermanence I guess
Riddle Sideways: that is a PoV
oO0Oo Resident: [08:22] Zen (zen.arado): 'humankind cannot bear very much reality'
oO0Oo Resident: say more please
Zen Arado: oh yes
akazilong Resident: people try the easy route, thinking about beyond the physical is too difficult
Zen Arado: TS Eliot quote
Zen Arado: they prefer to live in dreams and beliefs I take it to mean
Zen Arado: ?
Eliza Madrigal: tangibility can be fun within openness :)
Zen Arado: maybe openness disperses tangibility tho?
Zen Arado: even if it is fun

Eliza Madrigal: it allows for immediacy perhaps, life... like an open door allows for a choice to stay
akazilong Resident: maybe if we understand, that our mind is limitted, that will help bridge the gap
Zen Arado: yeh we need some foundation somewhere
Eliza Madrigal: agree... factoring unknowing

Zen Arado: a jumping off point
Zen Arado: or maybe it can diinish
Zen Arado: diminish
Zen Arado: like the raft we need to get to other shore
Eliza Madrigal: think it has to be abandoned... can't improve gradually... but, I keep trying, lol
Zen Arado: but shouldn't carry around ON the other shore
Zen Arado: or maybe gradualism is a way to extend solidity
akazilong Resident: can we build the raft, while we get there?
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Zen Arado: in the metaphor is is only need to help us cross
Zen Arado: it
Zen Arado: what is the raft?
Eliza Madrigal: and when we arrive we won't be there?
Riddle Sideways: a metaphor
Zen Arado: we find we are there already :)
Eliza Madrigal: good thing I'm tired, wouldnt understand this conversation otherwise
Zen Arado: could have dispensed with raft construction :)
Zen Arado: raft workers laid off :(
akazilong Resident: need to empty the mind, works best when tired
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: open to conversation, understanding may or may not come
                 --BELL-- 
Zen Arado: have to drop understanding too maybe :)
Riddle Sideways: good thing that is easy to drop :)

Zen Arado: have to explore cyborgs a bt more Sam sometime :)
Zen Arado: yes Riddle
Zen Arado: but mind graps at it
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Zen Arado: grasps
akazilong Resident: difficult to empty the cup
Zen Arado: yes good metaphor
Zen Arado: Zen story
Riddle Sideways: difficult to empty the 'read later' queue too :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Zen Arado: ntrl or something?
akazilong Resident: :)
Zen Arado: somebody has put a spell on me
Zen Arado: that's it
Riddle Sideways: :))
Riddle Sideways: now that song is stuck
Zen Arado: the curse of wondering
Eliza Madrigal: inception
akazilong Resident: now a movie is stuck in my head
Zen Arado: doomed to wander about this earth pondering for evermore
Zen Arado: and even in SL too :)
Zen Arado: double curse

Riddle Sideways: doomed to wander until the sim restarts kicking av out
Zen Arado: crosses fingers it won't last :)
Riddle Sideways: which btw has not happened
akazilong Resident: so what if RL is really SL?
Zen Arado: yes it is too
Riddle Sideways: isn't it?
Zen Arado: we make a false didtinction?
Riddle Sideways: the distinction is yours to make
Zen Arado: yes

oO0Oo Resident: It is very easy to conjecture that we exist in a kind of software memory space of soem kind of game or experiment of some greater intelligence....
Zen Arado: different peole make the distinction in a different place
oO0Oo Resident: *some
akazilong Resident: there was a great old german movie, just did that
Zen Arado: ah what wa that guy's name
Zen Arado: wrote a huge novel
Riddle Sideways: maybe, why it is so easy to PLAY, Sam
akazilong Resident: called the "world on a wire", people running a similation of a world and realized their own world was a similation
Eliza Madrigal: there is a current scientist who says the same...
Zen Arado: yes
Riddle Sideways: a great Star Trek NG episode too
Eliza Madrigal: lots of bugs in the system and that's the door
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: I workwed fro years at a simulator

Eliza Madrigal looks at Sam, giggles
Zen Arado: to train people how to operate power station technology
Riddle Sideways: not the Sam kind of bug :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehhe
akazilong Resident: whats sam up to?
Riddle Sideways: a butterfly avi is not a bug

Zen Arado: we have been telling each other stories since the beginning of time
Riddle Sideways: metaphors are the way down
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: I think he dreamt up the whole thing
Zen Arado: so all this more and more advanced storytelling?
oO0Oo Resident: :))((:
Riddle Sideways: )):((
Zen Arado: do fish eat butterflies?
Riddle Sideways: hmmm, "more advanced" ??
Zen Arado: maybe we never advance
Zen Arado: just technology around it
Zen Arado: same stries
Riddle Sideways: Hi Teleo,
Riddle Sideways: welcome back
Zen Arado: Hi Teleo
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Teleo :)
Teleo Aeon: hi
Teleo Aeon: thanks
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Teleo
                 --BELL-- 
Zen Arado: 'Black Magic Woman' song has started in my mind
Riddle Sideways: Same stories... in song, movie, campfire, chatrooms, cave dwellings, etc. settings
Zen Arado: cavemen in moden dress
Zen Arado: (and women)
Riddle Sideways: in one of the settings/PoV the stories means ALot to /me
Eliza Madrigal siles
Eliza Madrigal: Smiles
Riddle Sideways: :) siles
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: the story of my life
akazilong Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: "and every word is true..."

Riddle Sideways: am not sure people will understand when they say "alot" today and I start laughing

Zen Arado: is it?
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Zen Arado: :)
oO0Oo Resident: meme injected
Zen Arado: memories edited and polished
Riddle Sideways: ref to: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co...verything.html
akazilong Resident: thatts the old english animal?
Eliza Madrigal: (reference to a sad song Zen)
Zen Arado: ok :)
Zen Arado: I ws telling a woman at Virtual Ability group how cold the bottome of my lrgs get at retreats..she said it could be worse..
Zen Arado: she had both legs amputated after a car crash
Zen Arado: anyway I better go

oO0Oo Resident: I'm going to try and fly out the middle of the pavie.. wish me luck [note: hypocorism denoting familiarty with pavilion]
Riddle Sideways: good luck
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Zen :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes... we forgot how to leave without the region restart
oO0Oo Resident: Bye all
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Zen, Sam

    this is  link on the side of the main "ALOT" page that is juswt Great.
Riddle Sideways: and thanks for http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co...te-spiral.html

Zen Arado: good luck i your adventure Sam
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Good luck Sam
akazilong Resident: take care Zen, good to see you here
Zen Arado: bye all
Riddle Sideways: oh dear another 2 hours here :)
Eliza Madrigal: yikes
akazilong Resident: time flies
Eliza Madrigal: when one stands it reminds us
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Riddle Sideways: bye zen, Eliza
akazilong Resident: bye, eliza
Eliza Madrigal: lovely session, thanks
Eliza Madrigal: fun
Riddle Sideways: yes, thanks all
akazilong Resident: see you all here again
Teleo Aeon: bye
akazilong Resident: bye
Riddle Sideways: both of you come back soon
Riddle Sideways: bye