2013.12.22 07:00 - Virtual Self

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

ajanish Resident: hi Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hello Nish :)
ajanish Resident: Im surprised this playasbeing thing is still going on
Catrinamonblue Resident: it's a lovely supportive community :)

ajanish Resident: I was one of the first to run into Pema at the old tea house
Catrinamonblue Resident: oh!! Listens
ajanish Resident: wasn't known as Nish back then
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
ajanish Resident: my avatar was types sideways in those days
ajanish Resident: quite a while ago

ajanish Resident: does Pema every show up?
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles.... This is my one and only av :) I've only been around a bit over a year now
ajanish Resident: I see
Catrinamonblue Resident: not very much but once in a while he comes to the guardian sessions
ajanish Resident: I have been and deleted 4 or 5 avatars

ajanish Resident: experimenting with virtual reality, like is it hard to give up you familiar vitual self?
Catrinamonblue Resident: I tried having an alt but felt it wasn't me :) I'm so open that I can't pretend to be other than I am
ajanish Resident: haha
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
ajanish Resident: so what is you? the avatar called Cat?
ajanish Resident: haha
ajanish Resident: I am a bit of a trouble maker, sorry
Catrinamonblue Resident: I am who I am both the av cat and my rl person together there is no distinction, no difference between
Catrinamonblue Resident: I love trouble :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: stirs up the pot ;-D
ajanish Resident: :)

ajanish Resident: so are you sure you are who you know you are?
ajanish Resident: can you see you?
Catrinamonblue Resident: of course not ;-) I change in every moment
Catrinamonblue Resident: never the same and the closer you look the faster the change :)

ajanish Resident: do you ever see it as it happens?

--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: some rare moments when I can slow down enough yes but generally no I'm much too fast to see it
ajanish Resident: It seems to me
ajanish Resident: we only see what was already going on before we looked
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes :)
ajanish Resident: and in the looking, interfere with it
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
ajanish Resident: an example
ajanish Resident: If I am the playing of a guitar
ajanish Resident: and i look to see if it is going ok
ajanish Resident: my looking interferes with it
ajanish Resident: and i mess up
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes I have had similar experiences :)
ajanish Resident: the looking always seems to be after
ajanish Resident: in which case
ajanish Resident: I can never see myself as i am, only interfere if im in doubt of who I am am

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cat, Nish (nice to meet you)
ajanish Resident: hi Eliza
Catrinamonblue Resident: Morning Eliza :)
ajanish Resident: for me it is a matter of just being able to live without ever knowing what I am
ajanish Resident: its like a blind spot we have
ajanish Resident: seems to me

ajanish Resident: once..
ajanish Resident: I had this picture
Catrinamonblue Resident: I agree and really like that concept Nish :)
ajanish Resident: thx
ajanish Resident: this picture was in my sacred space at home
ajanish Resident: a picture of a beautiful owl
ajanish Resident: on the wall in front of me
ajanish Resident: in my meditation the picture was me
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
ajanish Resident: and I was asking "what am I?"
ajanish Resident: then it occurred to me
ajanish Resident: the picture was in the wrong place to be me
ajanish Resident: it was facing me
ajanish Resident: so I turned around to orient it properly
ajanish Resident: but now
ajanish Resident: it was behind me and could see me
ajanish Resident: that was still not right in order to be me
ajanish Resident: so I had to back up so I was looking out of its eyes for it to be me
ajanish Resident: then it occured to me why I can never see myself
ajanish Resident: because I am myself

Eliza Madrigal: "on having no head"
ajanish Resident: a friend once told me
ajanish Resident: thats right
ajanish Resident: Douglas's having no head

ajanish Resident: a freind once told me
ajanish Resident: do you know that you are different than everyone else?
ajanish Resident: that question really struck me as odd
ajanish Resident: how could i know?
ajanish Resident: I really never have any idea if I am different or the same as everyone else
ajanish Resident: everyone else knows me as a you
ajanish Resident: but I can never know me as a you
ajanish Resident: yet we go through life trying to be who we think we are
ajanish Resident: and we can never know what we are
ajanish Resident: so it is damn sure not what we are trying to be
ajanish Resident: what we think we are

ajanish Resident: all we have to do is trust that what we are is ok
ajanish Resident: and stop looking at it
ajanish Resident: and stopping it
ajanish Resident: and interfering with it
ajanish Resident: and we still are, perfectly as we should be
ajanish Resident: life lived
ajanish Resident: and not interfered with

Catrinamonblue Resident: brb phone

ajanish Resident: and its the easiest thing
ajanish Resident: Im done

--BELL--

ajanish Resident: again
ajanish Resident: so Nish - means finished without the "fi"

Eliza Madrigal: :) thanks. I sent you an IM about the recordings here... Can you take a peek please?
ajanish Resident: I understand the playasbeing recordings on Pema's site
ajanish Resident: thx

Catrinamonblue Resident: Nish I think what you wrote is perfect... putting into words thoughts that I have been touching on but not able to articulate :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks :) have to make sure before I post the session later
ajanish Resident: the words come from b4(I) kno (it)
ajanish Resident: its ok with me

Eliza Madrigal: "life lived and not interfered with" is an interesting phrase
ajanish Resident: we get in our own way
Eliza Madrigal: and yet the interferences are included in the living of a life?
ajanish Resident: you know how the actual eyes have a blind spot?
Eliza Madrigal: seeming diversions that turn out to be exactly the point
ajanish Resident: there is a blind spot
ajanish Resident: caused by the optic nerves going out the back
ajanish Resident: of the eye
ajanish Resident: and our brains fill it in for us
ajanish Resident: so we dont see it
Eliza Madrigal nods...

Catrinamonblue Resident: kinda ties in with a conversation I had with a friend recently about perception and lies. That a person can lie to themselves and others and beleive the lie as truth
ajanish Resident: but science can show us how anything in that blind spot disappears
ajanish Resident: but our brain
ajanish Resident: masterfully fills in the blind spots
Eliza Madrigal: various creatures have different sorts of seeing, depending on their particular needs in the environment

ajanish Resident: shhhh...
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
ajanish Resident: science tells us
ajanish Resident: that we would need a brain the size of a house to see reallity as it is
Eliza Madrigal: how could a brain the size of a house, still being part of the thing it is trying to see, see 'reality' as it is
Eliza Madrigal: "science" is who?

ajanish Resident: our brains make up the difference by filling things in for us
ajanish Resident: we also have a mind's eye blind spot
ajanish Resident: we can not know what we are
ajanish Resident: but everyone acts like we can
ajanish Resident: so our brain filled that one in as well
ajanish Resident: it created a idea of what we are

Eliza Madrigal: a wise person once said, that our limitations are our freedoms... and I've taken that to mean several things... but one of them is that we seek in the direction that is unknown, and connect that way - there is a need for listening

ajanish Resident: it gets it from the reaction of others
ajanish Resident: as well as how we feel when we look at what we are
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods Eliza :)
ajanish Resident: this works well for survival
ajanish Resident: but causes the interfernece
ajanish Resident: we eventually get to the point where we are ready to stop the cover of the blind spot
ajanish Resident: sine the brain works for us
ajanish Resident: we only need to understand it all
ajanish Resident: by looking at it all
ajanish Resident: for instance, noticing that we can not know what we are
ajanish Resident: that is a biggy
ajanish Resident: the fundamental misconception
ajanish Resident: takes a while to clear it out
ajanish Resident: not easy to just be and not know what it is
ajanish Resident: but, we never knew what we are

--BELL--

Xirana Oximoxi: hello Eliza, Cat and Nish
ajanish Resident: hello
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri! :)

ajanish Resident: once we clear this misunderstanding
ajanish Resident: there will be a shift
ajanish Resident: from doing what we should be and interfering 90% of the time

Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Xiri :)

ajanish Resident: to only interfering 10% of the time
ajanish Resident: a 900% increase in happiness
ajanish Resident: just from understanding

Eliza Madrigal: lovely sweather Xiri!
Xirana Oximoxi: thanks Eliza :-) it's new :-))

ajanish Resident: so long everyone
Eliza Madrigal: bye Nish :) guess he came to say what he wanted to
Catrinamonblue Resident: opps :)

Eliza Madrigal: Did you both see that the lake is iced over for skating now?
Xirana Oximoxi: something about percentages of hapiness?
Eliza Madrigal: yes... he had interesting things to say... just didn't seem to want to dialog so much ^^
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: ok :)

Catrinamonblue Resident: I don`t have much time in SL these days, just making it to a few sessions is all I`m able to do right now :)
Eliza Madrigal: sounds like life is busy?
Eliza Madrigal: holidays?
Catrinamonblue Resident: very busy, holidays and work both :)
Xirana Oximoxi: I'm not coming so oft either...more busy in rl with new projects and also parents and faiñy
Xirana Oximoxi: ui..family
Eliza Madrigal: the book illustrations, Xiri? how's it going?
Xirana Oximoxi: yes, it's going fine...now editing... and still must wortk a lot on illustrations
Eliza Madrigal: when I saw your exhibit with the animalistic water colors I immediately could see how that might be wonderful
Xirana Oximoxi: we will see :-)
Eliza Madrigal: for a children's book
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: it's really difficult...but I enjoy the challenge

Eliza Madrigal: I'm not in SL much lately either, but I feel like I want to be.. which has changed from a few months ago
Xirana Oximoxi: you did not want to be in sl?
Eliza Madrigal: I had an SL "dark night of the soul" I think :))
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: awww :-))
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't want to lose touch with friends, and yet I felt disillusioned
Xirana Oximoxi: maybe it is normal to have some periods feeeling different

Catrinamonblue Resident: have been up and down about being in SL too but now am more comfortable with who I am and where I`m going :)
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: can feel that way in RL too sometimes... as though the shoes are too small, or something
Xirana Oximoxi: I am 'nearly' the same here and there :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Catrinamonblue Resident: me too Xiri :)

Eliza Madrigal: :) I once thought that was true of me, but what a long strange trip (of discovery) its been
Catrinamonblue Resident: the masks of who we are :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: in some way in SL I am less shy than in rl...the avatar helps :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: "integration" is a funny word
Eliza Madrigal: but it seems necessary at some points to stop and integrate
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Xirana Oximoxi: integrate to what? or where? ...you mean rl and sl?
Eliza Madrigal: or to 'transfer funds' from one medium to another (funds being not money but learning or insight)
Eliza Madrigal: yes Xiri
Xirana Oximoxi: ok :-)
Eliza Madrigal: a bit like integrating inner and outer lives or selves?
Xirana Oximoxi: I've always learned from SL

Eliza Madrigal: like, what if your art only had a place in SL? and RL friends and family didn't know that of you?
Eliza Madrigal: would feel disconnecting perhaps
Xirana Oximoxi: ah yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: mmm

--BELL--

Xirana Oximoxi: it is also a way to enjoy here...living different things than what you usually do in rl.... it's also good if you feel happy with it
Catrinamonblue Resident: is it hard to let RL know about SL? For me they are one in the same, as FB is a way of connecting with people, so is SL for me
Eliza Madrigal: for me it has been... I've yet to meet anyone in RL who 'sees eliza' if that makes sense... yet, in SL I've met people who could see 'typist' by knowing eliza
Xirana Oximoxi: I always show my sl to some friends... and have also encouraged some to come and enjoy, but as far as I know, they don't come :-)

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey you three
Xirana Oximoxi: heloo Yaku!!!! :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Yaku :)
Eliza Madrigal: I heard an analogy this week, about an interrogation room. Pema used to describe something called "you can't get there from here" - in an interrogation room the person on the defensive can't see the other side of the two way mirror, but the free person can see both
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yaku!! :))
Eliza Madrigal: so the analogy for me is something like, seeing the outer through the inner first
Eliza Madrigal: SL hasn't really kept up though :) That may be why people don't stay...

Xirana Oximoxi: people stay if they find something interesting to do, share... with friends
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: like PaB :)
Eliza Madrigal: PaB is uniquely wonderful and worth staying for
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: really the only reason I'm still in SL at all is PaB :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) funny all the different things that bring us here
Xirana Oximoxi: yes :-) I enjoy at our French chat too... and with exhibits :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: no matter where someone is virtual worlds can be more stable then real environments
Eliza Madrigal: can be, nods
Eliza Madrigal: it is perhaps a personal struggle or desire I have, for PaB to be crossed over entirely into my rl

Yakuzza Lethecus: have you ever before flown over the pacific before you flew to japan ?
Eliza Madrigal: never, Yaku!
Eliza Madrigal: I had gotten my first passport, intending to go to Nova Scotia
Eliza Madrigal: (before that one didn't need one to go to Canada)
Eliza Madrigal: and then was invited to Japan... if I'd not gotten the passport earlier, I would have had to say no
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i had never even flown before the malta retreat
Eliza Madrigal: expanded lives :)
Eliza Madrigal: I regret not meeting you Yaku, when we were retreating
Xirana Oximoxi: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: my imagination wasn't big enough yet, to try Malta, lol
Eliza Madrigal: still would love to go to Ireland... and Spain :)
Xirana Oximoxi: wonderful :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: well transatlantic flights are quiet costly too
Eliza Madrigal: it was truly a series of miracles that I got to travel so much... flight vouchers etc
Xirana Oximoxi: Ill love to travel to the USA too... :-) .. and Germany... more near :-)
Xirana Oximoxi: I would love to....
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes the universe opens up like a portal
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Eliza Madrigal: Ah, village hall time :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: wonder where our Bleu is
Yakuzza Lethecus: cya there
Eliza Madrigal waves to Bleu in logs (miss you!)
Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh we have Guardian session today?
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: I will send a notice again

--BELL--

Xirana Oximoxi: ok...I come for a while :)
Eliza Madrigal: yay