The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

What is it that makes for a 'Good' conversation?
What ingredients blend together to bake a satisfying meal of words?
Why is it that sometimes the best of communion comes without much work?

ah, but then there are the times that no matter how much pre-thought, preparation and careful attention to details just does not produce yesterdays bliss.
We might repeat all the words and sing all the notes, but not get the feel again.
Everyday may truely be a holiday, but today might not be like it was on your 16th birthday.

Our play begins...

Sonic is waiting as Riddle enters.

Sonic Moonites: hi
Riddle Sideways: goood Morning
Sonic Moonites: morning
Riddle Sideways: always hard to pick which custion
Sonic Moonites: ha ha yeah
Sonic Moonites: how are you today?
Riddle Sideways: am just waking. first coffee
Riddle Sideways: had a late night last night
Sonic Moonites: ok, prob need that cofee then ;)
Riddle Sideways: a couple factors contributed to extended joy last night
Riddle Sideways: I have had a cold and not able to sing for a couple weeks
Riddle Sideways: and my amplifier was breaking down
Sonic Moonites: :(

Riddle Sideways: got a new amp and a new bass this weekend
Sonic Moonites: what sort of things do you sing? i am a musician too
Riddle Sideways: just had to stay at practice last night and try all sorts of loud noise
Riddle Sideways: this band is old rock-n-roll
Riddle Sideways: covers
Sonic Moonites: oh ok, great
Riddle Sideways: anything dancable
Sonic Moonites: good, must be hard on the voice
Riddle Sideways: I am finally living one of my dreams of being a back-up singer
Sonic Moonites: wow, thats really great stuff, im very pleased for you
Riddle Sideways: swaying in the back going... oo, oo, oo
Sonic Moonites: ha ha, yeah backing singers have the fun job
Riddle Sideways: well, it can't be because of my looks

Riddle Sideways: Can't help the shape I'm in. my legs are shinny and my arms are thin.
Riddle Sideways: don't ask me what I think of you...
Riddle Sideways: might not give the answer that you want me to :)
Riddle Sideways: sorry, had to sing that
Sonic Moonites: ha ha no go on, no worries about my avatar!
Sonic Moonites: ;)
Riddle Sideways: what do you play?
Sonic Moonites: i play guitar, and piano and write songs
Riddle Sideways: what style/ genre
Sonic Moonites: hmm probably folk/pop stuff
Sonic Moonites: its pretty fun

Sonic Moonites: hmm strange, im not the guardian on call today
Riddle Sideways: I am, but the recorder say not
Sonic Moonites: oh ok, please to meet you by the way, i havent been on here for a while
Riddle Sideways: It was doing this saturday / sunday too
Riddle Sideways: was going to get around to that
Sonic Moonites: ;)
Riddle Sideways: have we met?
Sonic Moonites: i dont think so, i have had a few months off, RL been very hectic
Riddle Sideways: yes, it is
Sonic Moonites: hi Solobill
Riddle Sideways: hi bill
Riddle Sideways: /hide
Solobill Laville: Hello Sonic, Riddle! :)
Sonic Moonites: but nice to meet you riddle
Solobill Laville wonders how to balance this circle...
Riddle Sideways: shall we get smaller
Solobill Laville: Like a pro, Riddle :)
Sonic Moonites: ;)
Riddle Sideways: ha... TY
Sonic Moonites: so how is the 9sec working out?
Solobill Laville: For me, I use at somewhat ad hoc lately, but as a tool to reinforce my sitting practice
Solobill Laville: "wiping the windshield clean" :)
Sonic Moonites: great nice analogy
Sonic Moonites: can feel like that
Sonic Moonites: yes ive been thinking how strange it is that sometimes it is easy to embrace the 9 sec(or any meditation) and other days it feels like a struggle
Solobill Laville: Yes, I remember the solunar (?) tables for fishing when I was a kid...seems akin to that!
Riddle Sideways: and the waves that those occasions come and go in
Solobill Laville: Exactly
Sonic Moonites: i think perhaps the hard sessions are the most useful in a way
Solobill Laville: I think that is where patience, persistence, being gentle with yourself are all good things
Solobill Laville: True, Sonic
Solobill Laville: I've read several passages where it was said that trouble "sitting" is a great thing
Sonic Moonites: yes
Solobill Laville: It is easy to get comfortable...oh, yes it is...
Riddle Sideways: quite a few lessons there
Sonic Moonites: i have recently been reading about running as meditation
Sonic Moonites: and he repeatedly says the hard runs are the best for training awareness, forcing yourself back to the breath(or whatever your focus)
Sonic Moonites: they pull you into the present
Solobill Laville: Yes
Riddle Sideways: yes
Solobill Laville: A few years back I was much more of an outdoorsman
Solobill Laville: And had climbed a few mountains out west
Solobill Laville: that is so true for that
Sonic Moonites: great, yeah the exercise and the view always transpire to bring about a change in concioussness
Riddle Sideways: and I rode a lot of bicycle
Solobill Laville: It is interesting about how the physiology plays into all that...blood sugar, etc
Sonic Moonites: perhaps exercise and movement is something we should talk more of in relation to being, def solobill
Riddle Sideways: and breath/ breathing
Sonic Moonites: hi susi
Riddle Sideways: hi Susi
Solobill Laville: Yes, and I'd think that a yogic perspective would focus a lot more on that
Susi Alcott: hi Riddle
Susi Alcott: hi Solo
Solobill Laville: Heya, Susi :) _/!\_
Susi Alcott: hi Sonic
Sonic Moonites: certainly, interesting that its easy to get carried away that "being" is the mind not so much the body, for me anyway
Sonic Moonites: perhaps a result of our conditioning
Fael Illyar: Hi Riddle, Susi, Solo, Sonic :)
Susi Alcott: hi Fael
Sonic Moonites: hi fael long time no see
Solobill Laville: Hi, Fael! :)
Riddle Sideways: and perhaps
Riddle Sideways: Hi Fael
Fael Illyar: Yes, long time, Sonic :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Riddle Sideways: might have to make circle bigger soon
Solobill Laville: Yes, Sonic, when I sit one of the first things I do is place my "mind" in my belly, to ease that separation of brain=mind
Sonic Moonites: yeah good idea solobill, will try that
Susi Alcott: the most urgent chakra for self is on belly
Sonic Moonites: thats one of the reasons i find running so useful for meditations, the movement and sense of the body makes it harder not be aware of
Riddle Sideways: and when I stand, walk, go.. I try to get my mind back into "where was I going"
Solobill Laville: Yes, Susi :), I think we've discussed that before
Sonic Moonites: especially as SL makes us even further away from our RL bodies
Sonic Moonites: easy to disconnect
Solobill Laville nods
Riddle Sideways: many times we a talking Being, all, a unitied everything
Riddle Sideways: yet get intoour minds,
Riddle Sideways: or one practice
Riddle Sideways: or ...
Riddle Sideways: then we are doing one thing
Riddle Sideways: and discover all is there
Sonic Moonites: nods
Solobill Laville: There is a lot in that too ;)
Riddle Sideways: imagines running up a long hill. Breathing is very hard. going on is hard
Riddle Sideways: yet there can be a stillness
Sonic Moonites: difficult, running creates a kind of pain(at least for me, im not to good at it)! and pain usually distracts me from stillness, however pain also makes me more aware of being
Susi Alcott: Sonic Moonites: easy to disconnect
Fael Illyar: Yes, that can be helped with just walking.
Riddle Sideways: and hard to re-connect
Susi Alcott: I feel need to ask if that really is easy or only illusion ?
Solobill Laville: Have you ever "thrown yourself into" the pain?
Solobill Laville: If ya get my meaning...
Fael Illyar: you mean "be the pain", so to speak?
Solobill Laville: yes
Susi Alcott: do you Solo ask that from me ?
Sonic Moonites: yes perhaps susi.....solobill - eventually the pain turns into an awareness and isnt like pain anymore, whether it is"throwing myself in" or trying to totally experience i dont know
Fael Illyar: take the pain as part of you, instead of rejecting it?
Solobill Laville: sorry, Susi, no Sonic :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: yes, my parallel these days is in sitting with it...
Solobill Laville: It is kinda like a bell curve
Solobill Laville: the pain arises
Solobill Laville: I make the step to "be it"
Fael Illyar: Hi Sam :)
Solobill Laville: and it rolls down the back side of the bell curve
Sonic Moonites: hi sam
Sonic Moonites: yes solobill
Solobill Laville: Hello, Sam! :)
Susi Alcott: hi Sam
Riddle Sideways: Hi Sam
Samuel Okelly:
Samuel Okelly: ( @ @ )
Samuel Okelly: ...o00o.(_).o00o...
Samuel Okelly: (( HELLO EVERY1! ! ! ! ))
Samuel Okelly:
Riddle Sideways: please come join the circle
Fael Illyar smiles.
Riddle Sideways: bill, could you repeat, reword,expand
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Riddle Sideways: not sure I understood
Solobill Laville: Oof! ;) OK...
Solobill Laville: I think it comes back to what Sonic said earlier...
Solobill Laville: [7:15] Sonic Moonites: yes ive been thinking how strange it is that sometimes it is easy to embrace the 9 sec(or any meditation) and other days it feels like a struggle
Solobill Laville: And perhaps, one form of that struggle is pain (there are others too)
Solobill Laville: So, in terms of pain, I definately get it in my knees when I sit
Solobill Laville: As the pain arises...I make the effort to "become one with it"
Sonic Moonites: yes, but to avoid or ignore it is not the idea...you have to accept it as everything else
Solobill Laville: Which is to say - not see it as something separate from myself, in which "I" am a victim -
Sonic Moonites: yes achieve that unity
Samuel Okelly: I think it is true to say that meditation requires much of us and not just “time”
Solobill Laville: YES - that is the key
Solobill Laville: Right, Sam, time in that sense is one of the other challenges
Solobill Laville: Amazingly, when you become one with it, it disarms the pain.
Solobill Laville: and rolls the backside of that bell curve
Riddle Sideways: as with most anything
Solobill Laville: :)
Sonic Moonites: interesting
Samuel Okelly: i personally have much “Time” but meditation is not always possible
Susi Alcott: many things go away surrendering to it
Solobill Laville thinks that the word "surrender" has been keen on his mind lately...
Riddle Sideways: and is easy (at first) to sit comfy or run a little or be still
Riddle Sideways: after a few minutes it gets harder
Riddle Sideways: this cat sitting on my lap
Riddle Sideways: for example
Solobill Laville: :)
Riddle Sideways: 5 minutes ago was very nice
Sonic Moonites: ha ha
Riddle Sideways: is now starting to shut off circulation to legs
Solobill Laville wonders if we're talking about "The Zone"??
Samuel Okelly: clarity of mind and thought does not always arrive easily I find
Sonic Moonites: yes perhaps it is "the zone", its all part and parcel of the same thing i think
Solobill Laville: Right, Sam!
Solobill Laville: In fact, quite the opposite usually
Sonic Moonites: yes clarity seems always difficult to achieve for me
Susi Alcott: >Fael _/!\_
Solobill Laville: What a great animation Fael
Solobill Laville: I was sharing with Wol the other day
Solobill Laville: That, even though I've been sitting regulary
Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
Solobill Laville: for several years now, it still takes as long as 10 minutes to "settle" sometimes
Solobill Laville: And sometimes, not at all :)
Sonic Moonites: wow, 10mins is still great, sometimes i still abandon a practice if it just isnt working(even though its probably the best thing for me!)
Sonic Moonites: well i use working lightly
Solobill Laville: (Keep with it Sonic)
Fael Illyar does not understand this "not working". Could you explain a bit more?
Samuel Okelly: just as we can not be spontaneous on demand, it is not alwasy possible )
Solobill Laville: Yes, please :)
Riddle Sideways: then I started noticing that those easy/difficult came in phasesand related to everything else
Riddle Sideways: come in cycles
Riddle Sideways: very interesting to watch
Solobill Laville: Totally agree, Riddle
Sonic Moonites: yes sorry not working was a bad term to use.....i guess sometimes the mood isnt right, and/or, there is something practical i feel the need to do something about which distracts my meditation
Riddle Sideways: butt must not fight or disagree what them
Solobill Laville: There are some schools that say, "just sit" :) that is enough
Solobill Laville: Even when it "isn't working"
Sonic Moonites: nods
Solobill Laville: :)
Sonic Moonites: :)
Riddle Sideways: no matter the words... we all understand
Fael Illyar: saying "it does not work" kind of implies you have a goal doing it.
Sonic Moonites: i still have perhaps not shaken the notion that my meditation has goals and can or cant work...i understand that being has different implications, but my upbringing and culture make it extreamly difficult to let go of thing like that
Susi Alcott: sorry
Susi Alcott: wrong click
Samuel Okelly: prayerful reflective mediation is goal driven for me
Susi Alcott: sorry Fael
Susi Alcott: ment to tell that I need to stand up
Susi Alcott: that I got the call to other sim
Solobill Laville: Well, there can be immediate and tangible goals
Susi Alcott: wishing all good to all here; gotta go
Fael Illyar: See you later Susi :)
Samuel Okelly: tc susi
Solobill Laville: Stress reduction, increased concentration, "object"-based meditations, etc
Sonic Moonites: by susi nice to meet you
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: OK, bye, Susi :)
Riddle Sideways: ok susi
Solobill Laville: To Fael's point though, (I think) the danger is Big Goal, which can be very counter-productive
Riddle Sideways: even without "goals" there are times when the feeling of "this is not working" happens
Riddle Sideways: ha "Meditation Happens" bumper sticker
Solobill Laville: :) - need that
Fael Illyar: It's not that the goals are bad as such. But it's important to be aware of them and realize that it might not be the only reason for meditation.
Solobill Laville: right
Riddle Sideways: right, to know that I have (or not) a goal today
Sonic Moonites: perhaps goals can exist outside of meditation but not in them, if that makes sense
Riddle Sideways: and be at peace with those facts
Solobill Laville: As a practical thing; when I have those instances
Samuel Okelly: for me it is represents a means to accessing revealed truths
Solobill Laville: I just sit and have faith that sitting is good
Samuel Okelly: or at least opening myself to the possibility of them
Solobill Laville: Usually I will settle after about 10 minutes or so
Solobill Laville: Oh, absolutely, Sam :)
Sonic Moonites: i also have to go now
Fael Illyar: See you later Sonic :)
Solobill Laville: Bye, Sonic
Samuel Okelly: bye son
Sonic Moonites: but great talking again, nice to meet you all
Riddle Sideways: yes, I note the 'whatever' and be with it for a while.... it usually leaves then
Riddle Sideways: ok thanks Sonic
Sonic Moonites: bye
Riddle Sideways: stray thoughts, pain, kitties, etc. come into my sitting, running, showering, life
Riddle Sideways: we view them
Riddle Sideways: give them their moment
Riddle Sideways: and attention
Riddle Sideways: then they get replaced by next thought
Riddle Sideways: if we (oh sorry, I am a geminii and talk in plurals) give not much, but apporpriate attentions
Riddle Sideways: to each
Riddle Sideways: they are okay
Fael Illyar: thoughts are like tireless messengers that will keep trying until you've read the message.
Riddle Sideways: not read a message and it comes back
Riddle Sideways: most times, read it and it goes
Solobill Laville: Stim has me working on a "positivistic" (my word) appreciation of them, before I let them go...very interesting
Fael Illyar: the "shooting the messenger" analogy applies quite well here... except they can't be killed and will come back.
Riddle Sideways: need to promise it that you'll do it, give it, react to it (later)
Riddle Sideways: and not to lie
Solobill Laville: Yes, that is dangerous too because it is like trying to move a mountain by kicking it -> Fael :)
Samuel Okelly: thansk for the chat folsk but i need to leave now :(
Solobill Laville: Instead of "shooting the messenger" it is more akin to waving at the messages
Fael Illyar: See you later Sam :)
Solobill Laville: k, thanks Sam, bye :)
Riddle Sideways: putting the "need to feed kitties" note into the in-basket wight not be enough
Riddle Sideways: ok, bye Sam
Samuel Okelly:
Samuel Okelly: †
Samuel Okelly: † (( take care everyone )) †
Samuel Okelly: †
Samuel Okelly:
Riddle Sideways: oooo, how did he do those arrows?
Fael Illyar: it's a gesture I think
Riddle Sideways: oh well, park that thought
Solobill Laville: Is it a gesture (chat) replace thing?
Solobill Laville: ah, yes
Riddle Sideways: as example.... I will someday come back and learn that stuff
Riddle Sideways: really I will
Riddle Sideways: promise self
Riddle Sideways: now I can go on
Solobill Laville: oh, man, have someone do it for you Riddle! Other fish to fry :)
Fael Illyar prefers noting that she'll come back and learn it if proves necessary :)
Solobill Laville: You know, though, I want to do that for Scathach's name...so I'll try to figure it out later :)
Riddle Sideways: ?
Fael Illyar: (or if I otherwise feel like doing it)
Solobill Laville: You replace a symbol - like "/sca" with "Scathach" somehow, in the gestures area...is what I mean
Fael Illyar: Ah, gestures don't replace strings, they're standalone ones.
Riddle Sideways: if I blow off that idea or tell it that I will (but it knows I am lying) then itcomes back to hauht
Riddle Sideways: haunt
Solobill Laville: ah, thanks, Fael
Fael Illyar: only work if they're on the chatline by themselves.
Solobill Laville: Is that from some dense of "duty" to accomplish some task or somesuch thing, Riddle?
Solobill Laville: Or need to release, etc??
Riddle Sideways: not sure
Solobill Laville nods
Solobill Laville: not sure is good :)
Fael Illyar: that's why I promise mine that I'l do it if necessary. :)
Riddle Sideways: :)
Riddle Sideways: good point
Fael Illyar: doesn't restrict future choices to certain ones.
Riddle Sideways: and now for something completely different
Riddle Sideways: why is the recorder
Riddle Sideways: saying no gaurdian
Fael Illyar: That is a good question. It looks like Wol updated the script recently.
Riddle Sideways: it seems to be recording
Fael Illyar: let me check if there's anything in the database
Solobill Laville: Looks like you can claim it, Riddle
Riddle Sideways: yep
Fael Illyar: yep, it did record it
Riddle Sideways: just like the software I have to go now to work on
Solobill Laville: That message it seems may be a bit off...
Riddle Sideways: it works correctly, but reports that it isn't
Solobill Laville: right
Fael Illyar: yep :)
Riddle Sideways: my users hate that
Solobill Laville: hehe
Solobill Laville: why?? ;)
Fael Illyar: haha, I can understand that sentiment :)
Fael Illyar: makes them worry for nothing ;)
Riddle Sideways: yes, I currently have 20+ emails saying that it says it is not workking
Riddle Sideways: yet the files are correct
Riddle Sideways: the flights are happening correctly
Solobill Laville: Oof, too bad there wasn't only one reviewer...
Solobill Laville: Can be off the record for a sec?
Fael Illyar: Well, if the guardian is willing to remove those lines :)
Riddle Sideways: well, folks I need to go do it
Solobill Laville: ah, ok, bye Riddle :)
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Riddle :)
Fael Illyar: Well, let's cut the log now, then you can be off the record :)
Solobill Laville: now?
Fael Illyar: yes?
Fael Illyar: although, granted, IM is always better idea if you don't want it out in the open :)
Solobill Laville: Well I wanted to share with Riddle (and you Fael) about recent an email topic personality...
Riddle Sideways: ah, I still do the copy-paste thing just to make sure I have a copy
Solobill Laville: * a recent
Riddle Sideways: ok