2009.10.11 13:00 - Tended or natural garden?

The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

Maxine Walden: hi, Yaku
Pema Pera: Hi Yaku and Maxine
Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
Maxine Walden: seems like we just recently saw each other; actually was so!
Maxine Walden: good meeting, I thougt
Pema Pera: yes, a full day, Sundays, from now on!
Maxine Walden: yes, very full!
Pema Pera: yes, indeed
Pema Pera: (to your previous remark :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi pila :)
Pema Pera: Hi there Pila!
Pila Mulligan: greetings
Maxine Walden: I had hoped we might continue some of the discussion from the guardian meeting this morning
Maxine Walden: hi, Pila
Pema Pera: sure!
Pila Mulligan: sure also
Maxine Walden: we were just mentioning the fullnes of the meeting experience today
Maxine Walden: fullness
Maxine Walden: I saw, Pila, where you posted a note about the meeting; would you care to say, mention anything further along that line?
Pila Mulligan: hi QT
Maxine Walden: hi, Qt
Pila Mulligan: ok
Qt Core: hi all
Pema Pera: hi Qt
Maxine Walden: hi, Qt, continuing some thoughts from the guardians meeting this morning, the 8amSL meeting
Qt Core: ok, just read the emails
Pila Mulligan: I guess my primary idea is that in a real life sangha the poeple can see needs arise
Maxine Walden: great,
Pila Mulligan: here, the needs are less visible unless they are expressed
Pila Mulligan: when they are expressed there is plenty of support
Maxine Walden: the need/courage/safety to express oneself
Pila Mulligan: but the venue of PaB may inhibit the wilingness ot express the need
Qt Core: (wonder if people like here AS there is no teacher/guide)
Pila Mulligan: so maybe PaB is like the front office
Pila Mulligan: but people may at some point need help with somehting they do not want to discuss in the front office
Pema Pera: the PaB Village may help in that direction
Maxine Walden: and you are not sure whether the person in need can access the more consultative atmosphere he/she might need
Pila Mulligan: I think there is plenty of help around for people able to obtain it
Maxine Walden: How so, Pema?
Pila Mulligan: here, the village, IM etc
Pema Pera: already for more than a year many guardians have formed strong bonds by visiting each other in their guardian houses
Maxine Walden: developing cadres or neighborhoods of especially trusted friends?
Pema Pera: at the coast, or in the woods
Maxine Walden: yes
Pema Pera: and now that we are concentrating more plots at a smaller site, by necessity, we move from home steading to a village structure
Pema Pera: and in that way, we may see some kind of new and extended support structure arising naturally
Maxine Walden: physically closer and thus maybe emotionally so as well
Pila Mulligan: PaB definitely has the capacity to open people to personal growth and challenging perceptions
Maxine Walden: yes
Pema Pera: and yes, Qt, I think you make a good point: the absence of a teacher may well be one of the attractive parts of PaB :)
Pila Mulligan: the quesiton may be how to get from here to there
Qt Core: chatting wich each other sitting in each own porch ? ;-)
Pema Pera: visting each other, Qt :)
Pema Pera: or dropping by in the neighborhood cafe
Pema Pera: without chat logs :)
Maxine Walden: but, Qt, your image of each on his/her own front porch does conjure the image of someone afraid to venture out emotionally
Maxine Walden: which might be relevant to some concerns Pila was expressing
Qt Core: yes, maxime, plausibel, probably me
Qt Core: plausible
--BELL--
Maxine Walden: maybe not just you, Qt, but all of us at times
Pila Mulligan: hi Steve
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Maxine Walden: hi, Steve
Qt Core: hi steve
stevenaia Michinaga: hello all
Pema Pera: An ongoing challenge will also be to keep a balance: to invite people to open up further if they like, but to also let people feel comfortable not to say more than they like, to keep as much privacy as they feel they need. We have to also respect both needs and wishes.
Pila Mulligan: yep
Maxine Walden: we are mulling over some of the themes of the guardian meeting this morning...
stevenaia Michinaga: thx Maxine
Maxine Walden: about trust, openness, sharing, but also as Pema is just mentioning the other aspect of respecting privacy as well
stevenaia Michinaga: I've been reading the emails
Maxine Walden: yes, you have the gist then
Pila Mulligan: the situations I am referring to woould probably be fairly infrequent, where someone feels affected by a new sensation or awareness, and would want help, but be reluctant to say so
stevenaia Michinaga: comfort is the most important, especially the comfort of questioning
Maxine Walden: hmmm, yes
Pema Pera: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: as we have seen in the past, some outright refuse to question what they need hold so tight
stevenaia Michinaga: others watch listen and learn in the very same environment we have here
stevenaia Michinaga: almost ironic
Pema Pera: :)
Maxine Walden: yes
Pema Pera: we are like a forest where everyone grows at their own pace . . . .
Pema Pera: some like the shade, some the sunshine
stevenaia Michinaga: some are weeds ?
Maxine Walden: and sometimes the same person prefers the shade while at othertimes the sun
Pema Pera loves weeds
Pema Pera: and ferns
Maxine Walden: I heard a definition of a weed, something like 'a plant you do not want to be there'
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: a gardener could be defined as someone desperately trying to let nature *not* do what it wants :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I was speaking of those weeds
Pila Mulligan: almost every yoga or meditaion teacher has expereinced several instances where someone comes to them and says 'I'm having these really strange feelings'
Maxine Walden: ferns are so cool, hundreds of millions of years old
Pila Mulligan: this is the infrequent occurrence I was trying to addres
Maxine Walden: feelings as weeds, Pila/
Maxine Walden: ?
Pila Mulligan: not necessarily, just new feelings
Pila Mulligan: sensations relating to growth thru a practice
Pila Mulligan: such a sPaB
Pila Mulligan: it is part of the journey
Pila Mulligan: hi Fefonz
Maxine Walden: hi, fefonz
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi fef
Fefonz Quan: hi all!
Pema Pera: hi there Fef!
Qt Core: hi fefonz
Maxine Walden: We are mulling over some of the themes from the morning guardian meeting today,
Pema Pera: yes, Pila, and if we had an official teacher, that teacher would have a responsibility to deal with that directly -- our situation is different, and it is a challenge to distribute that responsibility over the PaB community
Pila Mulligan: yes, it is
Pila Mulligan: the challenging apect is what I am referring to
Pila Mulligan: and I do ont have the answer :)
Maxine Walden: perhaps the answer might lay in best empathic efforts at the moment, respecting the various things we are trying to consider?
Pema Pera: perhaps there is no need for an answer . . . .
Pema Pera: perhaps, as Maxine said, we can let things grow naturally
Maxine Walden: no weeds in this natural garden
Pila Mulligan: perhpas that is just waht it is doing
Pema Pera: and part of that natural growth is of course signalling the need, as you have done!
Maxine Walden: just best efforts
--BELL--
Pema Pera: we can talk about what needs to be done without trying to force the issue and setting up a structure -- talking and seeing what we are talking about in and by itself may be enough . . . . clearing open spaces in the woods, to continue the metaphor.
Pema Pera: and I'm really glad that you brought up the issue, Pila, thank you!
Pema Pera: Hi Mick!
Maxine Walden: hi, Mick
Fefonz Quan: hey MO\ick!
Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
Pema Pera: Moby Dick?
Mickorod Renard: Hi, sorry I am late,,and soz for missin the meeting earlier
Qt Core: hi mick
Pila Mulligan: actually, Pema, it was a cmment on something others brought up -- a common heistancy that was affecting their PaB presence
Fefonz Quan: :-)
Pila Mulligan: comment*
Pila Mulligan: the issue is the hesitent sense assopciated with the front office :)
Pila Mulligan: it is natural, too
Pila Mulligan: and infrequent
Pila Mulligan: but there
Maxine Walden: and Pila, maybe that sense of exposure, too much front office, may have to do with an internal sense of fear of exposure that is really not so much linked with the group but internal hesitation within the individual
Fefonz Quan: (front office?)
Pila Mulligan: it is no doubt a personal mater that arises in several contexts
Maxine Walden: Pila, care to cue Fef on as to 'front office'?
Pila Mulligan: PaB as the fornt office
Pila Mulligan: the public street facing aspect of Kira
Pema Pera: Hi Arabella!
arabella Ella: hiya
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
Maxine Walden: hi ara
Pila Mulligan: where people come in spontaneuosly just to see whats up
Pila Mulligan: hi Ara
Qt Core: hi ara
Pila Mulligan: and where things can lead to real personal growth in many cases
Pila Mulligan: and where then there may be a need for a little help
Fefonz Quan: hi Ara
Pila Mulligan: if there is a hesitency to express the need, the alternativ emay be to drift away
Mickorod Renard: do you have an example Pila,,as I missed the begining of the conversation
Pila Mulligan: there is plaenty of help around if someone seeks it
Pila Mulligan: well, at today's guardian meeting there were a few people mentioning relatd idea
Pila Mulligan: a personal matter that was too big to lay ut at PaB
Pila Mulligan: out*
Mickorod Renard: are we talking emotional needs or instuction in PaB?
Pila Mulligan: more personal needs
Pila Mulligan: but arising as a reasult of PaB
Mickorod Renard: ok
Pila Mulligan: it is pretty simple if the person can seek the help they want
Pila Mulligan: if they cannot, then they are probably at a loss and may drift away
Mickorod Renard: yes
Pila Mulligan: there was asuggetsion that guradian meetings may help, and that makes sense
Pema Pera: and possibly longer meetings, short retreats
Mickorod Renard: yes, I can understand that,,more intimate maybe
Pila Mulligan: hi Sax
Mickorod Renard: hi Sax
Maxine Walden: yes, Pema, I thought that an important point, longer times potentially
arabella Ella: i think Pila's remarks about group dynamics and group sustainability and support were relevant
arabella Ella: including how groups evolve over time ... communities rather
Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
Mickorod Renard: I find I have learnt so much from PaB,,but that also tends to mean I have more questions too, as my foundations become larger
arabella Ella: nite Yaku
Pila Mulligan: bye Yak
Maxine Walden: ah, bye Yaku
Pema Pera: goodnight, Yakuzza!
Mickorod Renard: nite yaku
Fefonz Quan: I second Pila with the notion that there are some ingredients that are 'reduced' in SL
Fefonz Quan: iute Yaku
Fefonz Quan: nite*
arabella Ella: yes body language for example
stevenaia Michinaga: isn't the basis of PAB to be open or learn to "drop" what we grasp, like an opening hand and heart
arabella Ella: or innunendoes that are not visible here
Maxine Walden: indeed
Fefonz Quan: Hey Wol!
stevenaia Michinaga: asking for help should be fundamental
Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Wol
Pila Mulligan: hi Wol
Pema Pera: Hi Wol!
Maxine Walden: hi, wol
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Wol
arabella Ella: Hiya Wol
Qt Core: hi wol
Fefonz Quan: (innunendons?)
Pema Pera: yes, Steve!
Maxine Walden: musing over this morning's guardian meeting's themes, Wol
arabella Ella: innunendoes = discrete suggestions
--BELL--
arabella Ella: hints
Fefonz Quan: k thanks ara
Wol Euler: ty
Mickorod Renard: because PaB is recorded may lead to some holding back in asking personal questions
Mickorod Renard: oops
Pila Mulligan: true
Pila Mulligan: the privacy idea
Mickorod Renard: I think I am generaly open, but even at that I hold back some
Fefonz Quan: Maybe get some 'increased privacy' posts will help?
Pema Pera: if we introduce a several-hour "afternoon retreat" as an experiment, without recording, do you think that would address your concerns, Pila?
Qt Core: mixing the privaci issue and a misunderstandig i think i had i may ask...
Pila Mulligan: it is a nice idea, and maybe it wold, but I think the idea I was addressing has blossomed into more than it began as, Pema
Qt Core: wasn't the 8am meeting an organizational one more than a second private (not so private as it sill was recorded and published session ?)
Pema Pera: not only organizational, Qt
Pema Pera: in fact, there was no agenda
Maxine Walden: Think it began as organizational, and then, it may have been after you left, Qt, it did become more focussed on private sharings and inhibitions against such
Pema Pera: it just seemed like a good idea to let us gather together to see what would come up
Maxine Walden: a natural evolution of the discussion, as I recall
Wol Euler nods. I'm sorry I missed it.
Pema Pera: yes
Qt Core: some of that started before my leave maxime
Qt Core: (i sayd i misunderstood it)
Pema Pera: ah, sorry Qt
Maxine Walden: ah, sorry as well, Qt.
arabella Ella: what Qt may be referring to is Pema's statement that the 8am meeting was recorded for the wiki?
Mickorod Renard: is there any evaluation on what percentage of time at pab we should steer towards 'being' and personal chat etc?
Qt Core: but that make me thing, does a private session here and there, not more than one at week for example, for pab guardian only, would help where the privacy would be an issue ?
Fefonz Quan: good point Mick
Qt Core: thing=think
Pema Pera: as for recording, Arabella, the advantage is that the group in that way can give feedback to the working group who is now starting to coordinate activities
arabella Ella nods
arabella Ella was trying to clarify or attempt to clarify what Qt may have meant
Fefonz Quan: btw, i am not sure te recording is the only issue here.
Pema Pera: yes, Qt, definitely there is a need for private conversations, and the new Village structure can help in that way, as the old guardian plots already did
Mickorod Renard: I know in the tuesday sesion that I am responsible for, I feel I am not well enough experienced to give guidance in 'Being@
Pema Pera: instead of guidance, just asking questions may be enough, Mick
Wol Euler nods
Pema Pera: we all give each other inspiration and sympathy, perhaps that is all the guidance we need
Maxine Walden: Have to go, good friends, another meeting to attend. Thanks for the good discussion
Pila Mulligan: bye Maxine
Mickorod Renard: bye maxine
arabella Ella: bye Maxine
Wol Euler: goodnight maxine, take care
Qt Core: bye maxine
Pema Pera: bye Maxine!
Fefonz Quan: Bye Maxine! have a nice week
Wol Euler: I think the majority of us would consider ourselves non-experts, Mick. I certainly do.
arabella Ella: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, much to take in here
Qt Core: even not-expert would be too much for me ;-)
Mickorod Renard: ;) thans Wol..I am a little lacking in confidence sometimes
Pema Pera: hahaha, Qt !
Pema Pera: perhaps we can all wear titles of "not-at-all-expert" !
Wol Euler grins
Pema Pera: or "who? me? expert?"
Fefonz Quan: the non0expertise course
Mickorod Renard: but interestingly, now I have become more comfortable, I find, after reading the logs back, that i too am becoming drawn into ofering support
Pema Pera: but seriously, the strength of PaB lies in its peer-based approach, I feel
Pema Pera: glad to hear that, Mick, yes, I can see that!
Pila Mulligan: freindship is usually enough
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: Pema ... why do I get the feeling you may have some concerns and that maybe you may wish to verbalise them so we could see how to possibly address them ... not sure if this is the case! Just my intuition speaking!
Pema Pera: concerns, Arabella, in what direction?
arabella Ella: concerns on the future sustainability of PaB and which direction if any it should take?
Pema Pera: It's funny to verbalize these aspects . . . I could honestly say that I have no concerns at all and also I could honestly say that I have concerns all the time
arabella Ella: perhaps as you said towards an even more increased peer support fture?
arabella Ella: future
Pema Pera: the gist of it is: watching with full engagement and at the same time letting it all go and grow as it wants
Pema Pera: no, that was not my intention, Arabella; I think we're doing fine with respect to peer support
Pema Pera: perhaps the short summary is: I let each concern bubble up, act upon it as best I can, then let it go, and watch what happens in and with the group
arabella Ella: although ... isnt there also the aspect that ... if left free to grow as it wants it may lose some of the PaB spirit ... i personally hope it wont
Pema Pera: that's a very interesting point, Arabella
Mickorod Renard: paB sounds like a child growing up,,,how much do we control its own future developement?
Pema Pera: the answer seems to be: watching intently, yet not trying to control
Fefonz Quan: even real parents control their child's future less thatn they think
Pema Pera: we tend to fall into either of two extremes:
Pema Pera: eithere we tend to want to control
Pema Pera: or we give up and look away and no longer care
Pema Pera: but there is a third way, and I trust that way
arabella Ella: or ... we facilitate and guide and mentor?
Pema Pera: yes, that is part of the third way
Pema Pera: to do what feels natural at each step
arabella Ella: yes
Pema Pera: individually and collectively
Pema Pera: the new working group is an example: not an attempt to control but an attempt to coordinate and facilitate
arabella Ella nods
Mickorod Renard: yes
Pema Pera: to channel the ideas and energy and enthusiasm that comes out of the group back into the group
Pema Pera: without coordination, yes, the group would probably disintegrate in a few months :)
Pema Pera: like so many volunteer organizations
Mickorod Renard: nods
arabella Ella: one interesting aspect that was raised during the guardians meeting was to try to dedicate more time to allowing individuals to desceribe their practice ... and that is one element where i feel i could learn a great deal from others
Wol Euler: agreed
Pema Pera: but I don't see coordination in terms of concern or worry, rather as just something natural that needs to happen
arabella Ella: (as a non-expeert)
Pema Pera: yes, Arabella, I'd love to see that!
Pema Pera: During many if not most PaB sessions, I am trying to coax people to talk more about their experiences, as you may have noticed . . . we can all do that -- or would you prefer to add some specific structure? That would be perfectly fine too!
Pema Pera: there is always the question of how to balance organic growth vs. imposed structure
Fefonz Quan also feels that we go astray from the practice many times
Mickorod Renard: that was my fear Fef
Pema Pera: many of you have mentioned that to me, at some point or another -- so let's all try to do something about that!
arabella Ella: perhaps most of us are free spirits and would prefer simple organic growth as opposed to imposed structure?
Pema Pera: in each and every session we can try to just pay a bit more attention to the practice side of things, volunteering to talk about it, asking others to say more
Wol Euler: and yet many of us feel the lack that you spoke of...
Pema Pera: why do you think that is, Wol?
Wol Euler: well, for most if not all of us, that was what brought us here in the first place.
Wol Euler: it seems to me that the amount of time spent discussing the practices has been steadily declining.
arabella Ella nods
Pema Pera: yes, I agree -- so what can we do about it?
Wol Euler: maybe this is natural, as groups get larger they acquire diffuse interests
arabella Ella: i think it would be great if we could encourage those who know more about practice to share their experiences
Pema Pera: may I ask, to each of you individually, what you feel prevents you from talking about your experience, or asking others to do so, at a typical PaB session?
arabella Ella: and perhaps another suggestion could be
arabella Ella: some sort of mentoring on practice
arabella Ella: perhaps for guardians during the guardian sessions?
Pema Pera: interesting suggestion, Arabella!
--BELL--
Pema Pera: (unfortunately, I really have to go now, RL is calling, but I very much hope we can continue this conversation, both in sessions as well as in the email group -- it is the essential point of PaB!)
arabella Ella: i personally dont think i have an answer to that question Pema
Mickorod Renard: bye Pema
Wol Euler: bye pema, take care.
Qt Core: bye pema
arabella Ella: bye Pema and thanks!
Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
Pema Pera: perhaps we can all think about it, Arabella!
arabella Ella nods
Pema Pera: and all !
Mickorod Renard: ye
Pema Pera: see y'all soon again!
Pema Pera: bfn
Mickorod Renard: bye
Qt Core: it is hard speaking about practice when i haven't a structured or planned one, i may say i sometime most than drop become distract and let some of my thoughts fall
Wol Euler: actually I think that hearing about non-practices like yours would be of great benefit, Qt.
Wol Euler: because I think there is a perception among first-time visitors that a "meditation practice" must be something rigorous and strenuous and carefully managed.
arabella Ella would love to hear Pila discuss his experience of practice with us here
Mickorod Renard: thats a good point Wol
Qt Core: and than thay can say if a chaotic mind like qt's can do it ... ;-)
Wol Euler: whereas part of the purpose of the nine seconds is to de-sacralize meditation, to make it a normal part of life, a tool.
Mickorod Renard: perhaps we can break the whole up into manageable pieces
Pila Mulligan: :)
Wol Euler: exactly, qt!
Mickorod Renard: I think chaotic describes my mind too Qt
Qt Core: i sometimes talk about pab with rl friends, and i'm still unable to channel; to them the non high level nonritualistic and non monastic style of it
Qt Core: (ans they still call me crazy)
Wol Euler: :)
arabella Ella: :)
arabella Ella: people often think I am crazy when I simply mention my use of SL let alone mentioning PaB
Qt Core: oh, ara i don'r even notice that anymore
stevenaia Michinaga: this may be an interesting place to begin, by each of us describing PaB to the group as if we were explaining it to a friend
arabella Ella: ah ha
Wol Euler grins
stevenaia Michinaga: I suspect thre will be 27 differeing explanations
Qt Core: well, to sum it up in just a couple world i use (the italian equavalent orm of) :"my meditabond friends"
Mickorod Renard: if I had to do that you would quickly realise that after a year I still dont know what we do here
stevenaia Michinaga: grins
Wol Euler: try it, mick :)
arabella Ella: what is it to you steve?
arabella Ella: i'm curious
Wol Euler: (try to explain)
stevenaia Michinaga: gulp
Mickorod Renard: erm
arabella Ella: he he
Wol Euler laughgs
arabella Ella: lovely definitions there :)
Mickorod Renard: se,,we are stuffed
Wol Euler: there is no wrong answer. Go for it.
Wol Euler: your opinion is right, because it is your opinion.
stevenaia Michinaga: first of all it's a way to formalize what I do anyway, change viewpoints by pausing
Mickorod Renard: I will just look for that great description you gave the other night ,,in my log
Wol Euler: hey, that's cheating!
Wol Euler: *your
Wol Euler: *your* words
stevenaia Michinaga: the break is a way to simply break my concentration
stevenaia Michinaga: like I said last night (not cheating, remembering)
stevenaia Michinaga: like opening up a window and getting fresh air, then the moment passes and the memory remains
stevenaia Michinaga: trust me when I say, I am not rigorous about any of this
arabella Ella: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it happens when it happens
Mickorod Renard: for me too, its a way to re focus on what is an important side of my life that i am blind to because of continual demands to think in a box rather than outside a box
stevenaia Michinaga: just happy when it does happen
Qt Core: rl calls, heve to go, bye all
arabella Ella: i find this a place for peace and tranquility where friends are totally non judgemental
Mickorod Renard: bye qt
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Qt
Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
arabella Ella: bye Qt notte!
Pila Mulligan: bye QT
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan describing PaB to someone: first, generic, PaB is an internet discussion group that is available 4 times a day -- second, if there is further curiosity, PaB proposes practicing 9 second pauses during the day
Pila Mulligan: those two things -- chats several times a day and pauses, can add up to somehting helpful
Pila Mulligan: not necessarily doing them all the time, but having them available
Wol Euler nods
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: nice way of putting it Pila
Mickorod Renard: plus,,its better than watching boring television
Pila Mulligan: :) by far
Wol Euler: well ...
Mickorod Renard: star trek was good once
Wol Euler: what about you, Ara? You come here every night, what is it that you come for?
arabella Ella: i think i just replied to that a few minutes ago Wol
arabella Ella: for the peace and tranquility and the non judgemental friends here
Wol Euler: so it's purely a social function?
arabella Ella: like a safe space in an otherwise chaotic life
Wol Euler: ah :)
arabella Ella: no not purely social at all
Mickorod Renard: I too like the broad subject matter discussed,,even if i dont understand it
arabella Ella: i would like it to be more of a learning curve too ... it already is to some extent
Mickorod Renard: and to see you Wol
Wol Euler: awwwww :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I had best leave,,tend to my gardens
Wol Euler grins
Pila Mulligan: have fun Mick
arabella Ella: nite Mick
Wol Euler: goodnight mick, take care
Mickorod Renard: seeds to sow ,,and all that
Mickorod Renard: nite nite everyone
arabella Ella: wild oats Mick?
Mickorod Renard: yeaaa
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Wol Euler: I would answer differently depending who I was speaking to, describing either the practice or the group
Wol Euler: I came here for the practices, I was looking for a way to deal with anxiety
Wol Euler: and found some very useful tools, and a lot of inspiration.
Wol Euler: but I stayed for the conversation (much of which is related to those tools and the habits of mind of using them
Wol Euler: like Pema and Stim's discussions, or the theme sessions
arabella Ella nods
arabella Ella: i feel i have learnt a great deal here too
arabella Ella: and would like to learn more
Pila Mulligan: Wol, what has been most helpful in terms of your fist idea, dealing with anxiety?
Wol Euler: dropping and looking :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Wol Euler: to see what is really going on, and if that matches to what I fear
Wol Euler: because most often, it doesn't.
Pila Mulligan: do you feel anxiety as a vibration?
Wol Euler: hmmmmmm
Wol Euler: hrd to describe. it is physical, yes.
Pila Mulligan: if often can be, it seems
Wol Euler: but it comes from within me, not external
Pila Mulligan: yes
--BELL--
Wol Euler: I feel it as a sudden column of ice, from my throat down to my bowels, that grabs at my heart. My hands start to shake so badly that I cannot even type
Pila Mulligan: people sometimes refer to quivering with fear
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Pila Mulligan: the shaking is like that
Pila Mulligan: so it is a recongizable physical sensation that can be compared with feeling peaceful
Wol Euler: mmhmm, definitely.
Pila Mulligan: where you may feel warm inside and calm
Pila Mulligan: ... and to think, just seeing what is really going on can help change fear to peace
arabella Ella: isnt the difference a feeling of loss of control?
Pila Mulligan: I think it is confusion ara
Wol Euler: yes, that too. usually that, at the root
arabella Ella: also confusion
arabella Ella: but not only
Pila Mulligan: qloss of control is probably a reality
Pila Mulligan: loss*
Pila Mulligan: associated with anxiety
Wol Euler: my therapist taught me how to identify that feeling, to help to head it off by recognizing when it starts
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, feel free to join me at my 7:00 meeting :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Adams
Wol Euler: hello adams!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello ADams
arabella Ella: hiya Adams
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Adams Rubble: hello everyone :)
Wol Euler: bye steve, take care
Adams Rubble: bye Steve
Wol Euler: heh, I was about to ask where Pila went :)
Pila Mulligan: maybe even recognizing it before it starts
Wol Euler: yes, exactly.
Wol Euler: and noting the symptoms, and how my reactions reinforced the physical effects.
Wol Euler: she pointed out that I stop breathing when I am very stressed.
Pila Mulligan: by the time it has gotten to a column of ice that grabs your heart, it is much worse and harder to deal with
Pila Mulligan: bretahing always helps
Wol Euler: yep
Pila Mulligan: the sooner the better :)
arabella Ella: fraid i must leave
arabella Ella: but empathise with you lots Wol there
Pila Mulligan: bye Arabella
Adams Rubble: bye aarabella
Wol Euler: goodngiht ara, take care.
arabella Ella: nite all
Wol Euler: and thank you :)
Pila Mulligan: Adams, my comments were not suggesting a shortage of teachers and mentors
Wol Euler points at the recordeer and raises an eyebrow
Pila Mulligan: shall we turn it off?
Adams Rubble: yes :)
Wol Euler: done.