2011.12.02 07:00 - Title goes here

The Guardian for this meeting was Lucinda Lavender. The comments are by Lucinda Lavender.

Zen Arado: I had a dream the other night
Zen Arado: a fragment
Zen Arado: is there a dream circle today?
Lucinda Lavender: I think there isn't an official one but I would love to listen
Eliza Madrigal: we could have a dream session, though with thanksgiving and such we did miss the end month date for official circle
Lucinda Lavender: I sort of forgot...I think
Eliza Madrigal: me too :)
Zen Arado: can I tell my dream then?
Bleu Oleander: :)
Lucinda Lavender: please do...
Zen Arado: it wasn't that important :)
Zen Arado: it was just a bus stopped to pick me up ( I can walk in my dreams)
Zen Arado: but I asked the driver to wait a moment and I went to pick up a bag of some kind
Lucinda Lavender: right
Zen Arado: but then the dream repeated and this time I had to dig in the ground to get the bag out before I climbed on the bus
Zen Arado: that's it
Bleu Oleander: baggage
Zen Arado: yeh :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Lucinda Lavender: I usually say about busses(all vehicles)...a vehicle of consciousness...and one which carries the community
Bleu Oleander: or increased transit security?
Zen Arado: mmhmm
Lucinda Lavender: and also...I say...regarding the bag...if one is looking personally at the dream...yes it could be baggage...but it also can be a source...
Bleu Oleander: baggage in the sense of "the past"
Zen Arado: yes mmm
Lucinda Lavender: because in the bag...we have sometimes...things which are great tools
Lucinda Lavender: I like to ask...how did the bag feel...
Lucinda Lavender: ?
Zen Arado: Hi Korel :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Korel
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Korel
Korel Laloix: Heya
Zen Arado: didn't notice being heavy
Korel Laloix: wow... laggy today.
Lucinda Lavender: HI Korel...welcome...we are listening to a dream from Zen...
Lucinda Lavender: I will send it in IM
Zen Arado: my baggage :)
Zen Arado: remembers when I was a young man all my possession would fit into a suitcase under the bed
Bleu Oleander: wish I could say the same now
Zen Arado: so waht other baggage could I be carrying?
Zen Arado: me too
Lucinda Lavender: perhaps the tools you have learned to use I am thinking...
Bleu Oleander: baggage could be old belief systems?
Lucinda Lavender: the magicians tools:)
Lucinda Lavender: the brushes
Zen Arado: well I THINK I have chucked them out
Zen Arado: Bleu
Bleu Oleander: that's why they're buried
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: remnants remain maybe
Bleu Oleander: still want to bring them on the bus sometimes
Zen Arado: mm
Zen Arado: want to be on the bus with everyone else
Zen Arado: but new baggage prevents?
Lucinda Lavender: when something is buried it was ...put away...and bringing them out for the purpose of teaching others...comes to mind
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: new baggage?
Zen Arado: why do I have to go back for the baggage?
Zen Arado: why isn't it with me?
Bleu Oleander: hard to let go of baggage
Zen Arado: new teachings I now like
Lucinda Lavender: maybe you have not needed it...but the community does
Zen Arado: but they are impatient with me
Zen Arado: they have to wait for me
Bleu Oleander: so much we weave from simple dreams
Zen Arado: he he
Zen Arado: maybe I am being creative now
Bleu Oleander: we are great story tellers
Lucinda Lavender: or the collective consciousness is perhaps just a place holder...not actually certain people...
Zen Arado: yes :)
Bleu Oleander: give us one image and we can weave a whole story
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm nods
Bleu Oleander: the imagination that is human
Zen Arado: maybe it just that I was thinking of tryng to use buses
Zen Arado: cos 90% of then=m are now disabled accessible here now
Bleu Oleander: sounds very left brain :)
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: well...both count
Bleu Oleander: of course :)
Zen Arado: I often wonder about the eighth consciousness of Buddhism
Zen Arado: the storehouse consciousness
Bleu Oleander: there's a good new book by Michael Gazzaniga "who's in charge?"
Zen Arado: it remembers how to drive a car or play a musical instrument
Lucinda Lavender: can you say more about what that is...dig deeper because I do not know what that means?:)
Zen Arado: even after we have deep sleep
Zen Arado: nobody at the helm Bleu I think
Zen Arado: what does he say?
Lucinda Lavender: thanks for the book ttle:( Bleu
Lucinda Lavender: :)))
Bleu Oleander: I recommend it
Zen Arado: some kind of deep memory we have Luci
Lucinda Lavender: I see...
Zen Arado: I read a lot of nonduality stuff and that is a main theme
Zen Arado: (about noself being in charge)
Zen Arado: no self
Lucinda Lavender: so group consciousness might need people who can speak to those ideas I am thinking...
Bleu Oleander: implicit memory ... like riding a bike
Zen Arado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Consciousnesses
Eliza Madrigal: there is also bodily stored memory...
Lucinda Lavender: remembering the layers of consciousness even exist
Eliza Madrigal: I was surprised, taking a yoga class, at how much it brought to the surface in a psychological sense
Bleu Oleander: in some sense isn't it all bodily stored memory unless its stored using technology?
Eliza Madrigal: one doesn't realize how non-integrated or compartmentalized they might be, effectively hiding all kinds of baggage :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, say more Bleu?
Lucinda Lavender: Luci is waiting for the link to load
Bleu Oleander: when we learned to write we began to store our memories outside our minds
Zen Arado: somehow different from visual memories
Eliza Madrigal: ah, indeed ...
Lucinda Lavender: wow! an amazing thought
Zen Arado: unconscios memories
Zen Arado: could be a 'me'?
Lucinda Lavender: writing as more mind...
Bleu Oleander: implicit memories are unconscious memories
Eliza Madrigal thinks of the pensieve in Harry Potter
Bleu Oleander: as tech increases our options to store memories increase
Bleu Oleander: I have google now ... don't need to store my memories in my brain hehe
Eliza Madrigal: but that seems a certain gradation of memory, capable of being stored as that sort of information/knowledge?
Zen Arado: thoughts could originate there?
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: iPhone ... pics preserve events
Eliza Madrigal: it seems a different sort of knowledge or memory though, that is able to connect with the substance of the picture kept/saved
Bleu Oleander: can we store feelings as memories using tech?
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Eliza Madrigal: one can remind or open or point to the other
Lucinda Lavender: seed consciousness...casting the seeds from the bag...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lucinda Lavender: the seed does not look like what it grows up into...but it is a source
Zen Arado: and we can ater the 'good' seeds as Thich Nhat Hanh points out often
Zen Arado: Google has undermined the need to meorise information
Lucinda Lavender: storing memories of feelings through tec is such an interesting idea
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: can we embed feelings into tech?
Zen Arado: not yet I think
Zen Arado: what are feelings?
Lucinda Lavender: if anyone can I would imagine you could Bleu:)
Bleu Oleander: emotions
Zen Arado: something to do with survival?
Bleu Oleander: haha @Luci
Lucinda Lavender: well you have gifts with the building I think
Bleu Oleander: I think you come close with your paintings Zen
Zen Arado: well they now say that emotons and rational thought are interdependent, intertwined
Lucinda Lavender: yes Zen too!
Lucinda Lavender: the art!!!
Bleu Oleander: yes, intertwined
Zen Arado: if you destroy the part of the brain concerned with emotions you can't reason either
Bleu Oleander: right
Zen Arado: but we tend to dualise them
Zen Arado: is that a word?
Korel Laloix: INteresting thoughts... when I read back through my journals.... it takes me bak to the emotions more than the events.
Bleu Oleander: coined a new work :)
Zen Arado: :)
Bleu Oleander: *word
Zen Arado: it's agood technique for memorising
Zen Arado: wrap facts with emotion
Bleu Oleander: yes
Lucinda Lavender: well emotions are so powerful sometimes...I think they seem like stepping stones through a process
Bleu Oleander: I won a trip to Paris doing that
Zen Arado: yes
Bleu Oleander: long story
Lucinda Lavender: !!
Zen Arado: but why do we have emotions?
Zen Arado: aren't they just a susvival tool?
Bleu Oleander: but it pays to tie emotions to memories if you want to remember them
Eliza Madrigal: indeed Korel... this is the way many approach dream work too, not trying to figure out what things mean concretely but what they open into... unravel into even
Zen Arado: want to tell story Bleu?
Korel Laloix: I have remembered maybe 5 dreams in my life.
Korel Laloix: I know I have them... I just don't remember them.
Bleu Oleander: just the end ... that the more emotions involved the better the memory
Korel Laloix: ONly remember the really bad ones.
Eliza Madrigal: delicate material, slippery
Zen Arado: yes like me too Korel
Eliza Madrigal: so stability of emotion, or 'more' emotion?
Bleu Oleander: each time you bring up a memory you "re-save it" with new emotions and feelings
Eliza Madrigal: funny... definitely a vehicle conversation we're having... stable vehicles for memory baggage, haha
Zen Arado: my rationla mind seems to immediately reject dreams as tubbish whem I awake
Zen Arado: rubbish
Lucinda Lavender: I might survive longer if I do not forget something...and it is transforming then with the new memory...
Lucinda Lavender: we are taught to dismiss dreams I think
Zen Arado: wonder if memories are brain baggage as we get older
Bleu Oleander: can be
Eliza Madrigal: well for me I guess my process is flipped, maybe showing tendencies... tend for the more concrete to serve the more ephemeral
Bleu Oleander: can be wonderful also
Zen Arado: I see old people dwelling gtoo much in the past though
Bleu Oleander: are we our memories?
Eliza Madrigal: why too much, because we don't enjoy listening?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch
Zen Arado: retelling old storues you have heard so many times before
Zen Arado: and that's just me :)
Zen Arado: Hi Arch
Bleu Oleander: hi Arch
Eliza Madrigal: I love to see when my grandfather lights up telling me same things... often one new tidbit in a long conversation...
Lucinda Lavender: Hi arch
Bleu Oleander: "reflections" of the past
Zen Arado: we can have amnesia Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: but the process isn't always easy, lol
Zen Arado: can't remember who we were
Bleu Oleander: what are we left with if we lose our memories?
Zen Arado: so the 'me' has died in that instance?
Eliza Madrigal: esse
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: seems like personal memory gives us evidence we are here
Zen Arado: reeditting the past somewhat too Eliza :)
Korel Laloix: The things is, there are memories you want to foget but can't/
Eliza Madrigal: wonderful conversation, thanks so much... have to go...
Bleu Oleander: that's what is so devastating about Alzheimers
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Zen Arado: memory is an old philosophical argument to try to prove personal identity
Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza
Zen Arado: bye Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal waves, take care... and yes, nodding Korel... sometimes a gift, that sea of forgetfulness
Lucinda Lavender: bye Eliza...thanks you!!
Zen Arado: it's frustrating forgetting names even
Eliza Madrigal: ((((( ))))))TY Luci, everyone
Bleu Oleander: must go too
Bleu Oleander: thanks everyone
Bleu Oleander: take care
Zen Arado: I better head off as well
Bleu Oleander: and happy skating and ice carving :)
Zen Arado: thanks for interesting convrsation
Archmage Atlantis: So dreams it shall be
Lucinda Lavender: thank you Zen for bringing it
Zen Arado: and breflecting ...:)
Bleu Oleander: bye all
Lucinda Lavender: bye to all leaving...
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Lucy
Lucinda Lavender: sorry HI Arch!
Archmage Atlantis: My favorite near relative......wife of a bother of a partner.....she was addressed as Luz
Lucinda Lavender: nodding:)
Archmage Atlantis: She was from the Bronz...but still of Puerto Rico
Archmage Atlantis: the rich port
Lucinda Lavender: the rich port yes
Lucinda Lavender: brb getting oatmeal
Korel Laloix: yummy
Lucinda Lavender: has almonds and chrries in it
Lucinda Lavender: dried
Korel Laloix: Lovely
Lucinda Lavender: dried cherries and almonds taste so good together for a snack
Korel Laloix: Ath h ome sick today...nothing sounds good to me.
Lucinda Lavender: sorry..many peopel sick now...
Lucinda Lavender: do you have the cough?
Korel Laloix: Not yet....
Korel Laloix: yet
Lucinda Lavender: the achy dizzy part?
Lucinda Lavender: had that a few weeks ago
Korel Laloix: Have that bit well .
Archmage Atlantis: The thing I see is that we need to find a way to innoculate the ppl against that sickness
Lucinda Lavender: sorry
Korel Laloix: I had teh flue shot.
Lucinda Lavender: me too
Archmage Atlantis: And recover those who suffer
Lucinda Lavender: it seems to really keep me from getting the flu...
Archmage Atlantis: Me 3......so what....old science
Lucinda Lavender: and working with kids I am exposed to so much
Korel Laloix: I don't get sick much, but when I do.. I really suffer.
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, understand the kids elemen t
Lucinda Lavender: I was looking up about cough suppressants on google...there are some natural remedies...
Lucinda Lavender: applecider vinegar with honey
Archmage Atlantis: My only strength is my ability to reason
Lucinda Lavender: and rubbing vicks on your feet and chest
Archmage Atlantis: but life is not reasonable
Lucinda Lavender: interesting...
Lucinda Lavender: at work when we don't know something my boss says...have you asked mr. Google yet?"
Lucinda Lavender: oh boy...I better go...have good days all:)
Archmage Atlantis: I need to know what the thoughts are
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Lucinda Lavender: thanks and feel better soon Korel...
Archmage Atlantis: Mr Google is a
Korel Laloix smiles
Archmage Atlantis: shell
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Archmage Atlantis: When I go there, I bring other knowledge
Lucinda Lavender: :)))
Archmage Atlantis: TY for staying Korel
Archmage Atlantis: Which flow of humanity would you identify with
Archmage Atlantis: The archilogical seems to support 3 flows
Archmage Atlantis: Well, now 4
Korel Laloix: Three flows?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Korel Laloix: Not sure I know what you mean.
Archmage Atlantis: There was a land bridge across the Bering Straigh
Archmage Atlantis: Over the centurys
Korel Laloix: OH yes.
Korel Laloix: YOu mean early migrations?
Archmage Atlantis: it came and went
Archmage Atlantis: yes
Archmage Atlantis: My ppl came from Europe in the 4th migration
Archmage Atlantis: Across the sea
Korel Laloix: I am aware of the idea, but not the specifics.
Archmage Atlantis: You identify as native american
Korel Laloix: More than I want to sometimes.
Korel Laloix: But yes.
Archmage Atlantis: none of us humans are evovlved here
Archmage Atlantis: Nor did horses or dogs or pigs
Archmage Atlantis: So I have to ask to myself, what is native
Korel Laloix: It is a realtive term for sure.
Archmage Atlantis: That the jewish persons shall have Israel
Korel Laloix: I know a couple of white people that call themselves African American as they were born i South Africa and Rhodesia.
Korel Laloix: One of the reasons we use the term First American now.
Archmage Atlantis: You are an intelligent (and difficult) person.......and I thank you for the time you have spent with me
Archmage Atlantis: Blessings and namaste
Korel Laloix: Difficult?